Yup, plenty of places to invest in…BPA at OLine, TE, Safety, Qb, WR, Slot guy too.
I always lean toward the OLine. A good one truly makes everyone better.
- - - - - 3rd and 4th down and 3 yards play calls in the 4th quarter. On 3rd they threw it 10 + yards. On 4th they threw to......no body. Once again, RTFB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought Hoped the Dallas game lit a fire or turned a switch on, but last night was the same stink we have seen for the last 2 months.
Positives:
+ Douglas INT to keep them in the game.
+ Watson stacked success with another pretty good performance even though it wasn’t perfect.
- The defense allowing a long time consuming drive to give up a TD to start the game. Set the tone for a day where the defense looked bad on most possessions.
- It’s hard to watch Rodgers when he’s frustrated and doesn’t believe in what’s around him. Some of those throws that were off, was it his bad thumb or is this a sign of a decline that a typical 38 year old QB will have?
- Special Teams still shaky even with all the changes we’ve made.
The Titans have a legit shot to win it all, but only because this is the weakest looking NFL that I can ever remember. Some really good teams, but no truly great ones. Sadly, the Pack is no longer one of those really good teams.
Henry was "slowed" but not shut out the way he was two years ago in nearly the same circumstances. The guy is just so big and tall that it looks like he's not even trying but then just sort of seems to fall forward for 5 yards.
The D game plan was clearly to stop Henry and Make Tannehill beat you. And for the most part, Tannehill beat them. I commented on this in the game thread in the first quarter. It was that obvious. But no adjustments.
Is DAL that bad?
Props again to Grinder. I think he called another 3TD game for Watson and came close.
@Tschmack posted:Savage is just not a good football player. It didn’t just show up this year.
Despite being a good athlete, he doesn’t seem to play with good instincts or control or technique. I know it’s not fair to compare him to C Wood or Butler or Collins, but they all had a nose for the ball, were rarely out of position, and all had a high football IQ which translated to making big plays in big or key moments.
Savage has what, 3-4 picks in his career? How many sacks or TFL? Forced fumbles? And it’s not like he’s Jaire Alexander with limited opportunities.
One of the biggest reasons they are 4-7 is the team is totally upside down in the turnover ratio. The defense has given them literally nothing to work with other than Gary and maybe Alexander from time to time.
Chris Borland is the single best defensive player I’ve ever watched in that despite not being the ideal size he was a game wrecker. Dude made tackles all over the place and made numerous game changing plays whether it was a TFL or forced fumble ot sack or pick to stop or limit drives and flip the momentum.
We need less track stars and more football players like Borland. This is what Ron Wolf and TT did so well in their scouting and acquiring of personnel. Gute seems to want to find the guy that has all the measurables and runs like the wind but what about heart and desire and grit? That stuff matters especially when things go south (like they are this year).
You need some of those guys with grit, heart, and desire, but you need the 2-3 elite "measurable" guys to go with them. Guys like Lazard, Tonyan, Lowry, Runyan, Rudy Ford, and R. Douglas are all grit guys. That's great if Lazard is your #3 or #4 WR, but not when he's your #1. He's just not a good enough athlete to beat a #1 DB. Tonyan would look great as a #2 TE playing behind an elite guy. Runyan looks great lining up with healthy versions of Bakh and Jenkins, but less so when he's not.
Here's the ranking system Bob McGinn used to rate guys on (at the bottom of the post). McGinn and Cristl used to say you needed 3-4 "blue" guys to be a title contender. The other thing is you can't have too many "green" or especially "yellow" guys. Those guys make plays to lose games.
The 2020 regular-season Packers team had Rodgers, Adams, Bakh, E. Jenkins, and Alexander as blue level guys. The 2022 Packers have no one playing at that level right now. Rodgers is a "red" guy right now. In their current form, Bakh and Jenkins are "purples." Alexander and Jones are in Red plus territory. Preston Smith is in that conversation as well (not a blue). They just don't have enough high-end talents. Their WRs right now are a yellow (Watkins), two green (Lazard and Cobb), and low level purple (Watson). Their TEs are all greens or yellows. There isn't a guy better than a purple on the OL right now. In short, their offense has an excellent QB (not otherworldly anymore), a borderline Pro Bowl RB, and a promising rookie WR who needs more experience. Everyone else you'd want to look to replace or assume they'll be better after the injury recovery is complete (Jenkins). Bakh is cooked. Dillon was vastly overdrafted in the second round. The TEs are a joke.
On defense, I think there is a lot of individual talent. Barry's passive, 8th-grade-level schemes minimize the talent on that side of the ball. The scheme is designed to make other teams complete long drives without mistakes. The only time they really stopped the Titans when it mattered yesterday was a sack on the 2nd drive and the interception. The 4th down stop was nice, but they allowed them to suck the life out of the stadium and obviously would have scored if they'd have just kicked the chip-shot FG.
Of course, they have lost games this year because of "yellow" level guys they've failed to improve or replace (Amari Rodgers, Sammy Watkins, and Savage).
McGinn's system
BLUE: An elite player who makes big plays on a consistent basis. Wins games. Perennial Pro Bowler. Among the top handful at his position.
RED: A very good player capable of making big plays. Able to make plays to win games. Probably among the top eight to 10 at his position.
PURPLE: A solid starter. He won't be going to the Pro Bowl, but a team can win with him. He's part of the machine, just not a big-play man.
GREEN: Often a good backup capable of getting a team through a game. If he's young, a team would be content with him. If he's old, a team would be looking to replace him.
YELLOW: A young player who hasn't played much and might have a chance to develop. Anyone else, you don't want on the roster.
@DH13 posted:Henry was "slowed" but not shut out the way he was two years ago in nearly the same circumstances. The guy is just so big and tall that it looks like he's not even trying but then just sort of seems to fall forward for 5 yards.
The D game plan was clearly to stop Henry and Make Tannehill beat you. And for the most part, Tannehill beat them. I commented on this in the game thread in the first quarter. It was that obvious. But no adjustments.
Is DAL that bad?
Dak just made two bad decisions. If Cooper Rush plays that game, Dallas probably wins. Also, Dallas didn't game plan for Christian Watson. Teams will scheme to take him away now and make Lazard or Watkins beat you.
+ Watson's going to be a good one if he can stay healthy. He'll get better and erase some of the annoying stuff he does - he's a rookie.
+ The O Line looks to be improving now that the starting 5 are set.
+ Cobb shows up a little when he's healthy.
+ Rasul with another interception, continues his solid play. He's the only person other than Ford in our secondary who can actually catch the ball.
+ Engbare is a solid contributor. He has the strength to hold the edge and has some pass rush skills, though he's not a super gifted athlete. But he's a rookie and just getting started.
+ Jones again when he gets the opportunities.
- What happened to AR's accuracy and ability to find open receivers? He was atrocious again and was outplayed by Tannehill badly. Tannehill looked like the HOF QB - he was throwing darts.
- I'm not so down on our run D, I think they actually did a pretty good job, but our pass rush was almost non-existent, allowing Tannehill time to torch our secondary all night. They can't cover forever. I think this is more of a talent issue than an effort issue. Missing Gary is huge, obviously.
- The O line is getting better, but is still unable to keep the chains moving on 3rd down and short.
- Watkins. Put him out to pasture already. Almost anyone is better.
- Lazard. If you're gig is as a possession receiver, catch the fucking ball.
- Barry. Obviously our strength is not playing zone. Why do you insist on playing zone? The Titans were happy to dink and dunk all night. Every fucking week it's the same thing.
- Starting to sour on MLF's ability to coach a tough team and have the balls to hold staff/players accountable. The team just seems soft, and you have one coach, Mo, who was allowed to stay too long and probably cost us a shot at the SB. Now we have DingleBarry who other than a couple games at the end of last year, has coached a defense that continues to get whipped the same way every week and refuses to make changes. I'm starting to think MLF is better suited as an OC.
- I also think moving Steno to OC was a mistake. He did a great job as O-Line coordinator, and certainly deserved a look for OC, but just because someone does a good job with their current duties, doesn't make it a slam dunk that they'll be good at their new duties.
- Clements was brought in to help keep AR happy and challenge him to be better. I don't know if Clements is just past his prime or if AR just doesn't listen. Either way, it's not working. AR has regressed this season big time.
So what you're saying is.....Gute is color blind?
@Pikes Peak posted:This was the first time for me watching the Prime presentation. It seemed to me that they had more camera shots from behind the LOS with a wide field view. I noted that we had guys open, sometime 2 on more than one play. Wide open. Not sure if this would be a plus or minus….guys open +, AR not seeing or not pulling the trigger-.
Rodgers is NOT seeing the field at all. Watched the Dallas game again and noticed the same thing.
"Tannehill looked like the HOF QB - he was throwing darts."
Titans receivers were so open Fedya would have been throwin darts!
How does holding not get called when Quay Walker literally got spun around when he was crashing through the middle? The guy reached out his arm and grabbed him... that was no block, and it led to a huge gain by Tennessee...
@PackLandVA posted:I think a lot of people are too dismissive of Tannehill’s performance last night. He was incredibly accurate, made good decisions, and played really well overall. The Tennessee run game was pretty much held in check, but Tannehill was really, really good.
He played very well. He exploited the holes in the defense and was probably the most accurate I've seen him in his career. He definitely should get credit, but how many times was he even touched last night? This Packer team seems to have some need to make bad qbs look good and average qbs hall of fame level. It's a world of difference watching Tannehill sit back in the pocket with little to no worries and all the time in the world to wait for guys to come free, and watching Rodgers who was skittish all night long. This has become a predictable pattern that a mediocre qb can come into Lambeau and shine. He managed the game as well as a qb could do, because it was as rudimentary a gameplan as one could possibly scheme. He doesn't respond well to pressure, and he's one step away from Cutler in stupid decisions that result in turnovers. Rasul made a great play on the int, but that was a vintage Tannehill throw where the target had little to no chance on that ball. Last night was a case where it was clear Tenn had a plan and stood in there to remain faithful to the plan. They used play action almost perfectly because Henry is a threat every play, and Tannehill made a number of really good throws. The frustration of losing to a qb like him is you know if you get in his face and knock him off schedule, he has a tendency to give you gifts. Last night is what happens when he has little to no worries in the pocket.
@Packmeister posted:How does holding not get called when Quay Walker literally got spun around when he was crashing through the middle? The guy reached out his arm and grabbed him... that was no block, and it led to a huge gain by Tennessee...
It happened so often it looked like a "let them play" game.
@Chongo posted:Never underestimate the ability of McVince to fuck up a win.
Hilarious that the Pack has lost 6 of 7 and Mac is the one who prevented the 7 game losing streak.
If Dallas loses to the Vikes in Minny on Sunday, there is going to be a lot of heat on Mac when the 6-4 Cowboys host the likely 8-2 Giants on Thanksgiving Day (NY hosts Detroit on Sunday).
- Attrition
I've had a good chunk of a day to digest this and it leaves me wondering if La Fleur has just been poor at finding replacements when coaches leave, and I'm not talking about Barry. Or is he a micromanaging meddler?
Watson not sitting down in the opening was also a major miscue when the game was there for the taking. Rookie mistake, right? But wait, Watkins seems just lost, and he's jumped to and through numerous offenses. He's clearly lost a step, but has he lost everything he's learned or is something else going on? The only guy who seems to be doing okay is Cobb, who has more years with Rodgers than the rest combined.
There's an obvious lack of talent at the position, but when there is no room for error and the non-Cobb squad makes errors repeatedly, it leads me to think the not-Getsy (Vrable) has to shoulder a chunk of the blame for guys not producing even the mediocre results they're capable of.
There's a good deal of Myers film now, Runyon too, but for them to regress as much as they have, regardless of the Jenkins/Bakhtiari injuries, is Butkus not passing muster with Stenavich trying to be the coordinator and also over his head? The Packers have lost both Hackett and Getsy. I get Hackett wanting the head job
They've also poured a lot of high picks into the defense, but the former defensive coaches are seemingly also having more success elsewhere. Meanwhile, Barry is a regression
Amari Rodgers aside, it seem Bisaccia has generally improved special teams. He's seemingly the exception.
Bottom 5 offense against Titans from PFF
1. TE Tyler Davis: 41.7
2. WR Sammy Watkins: 53.7
3. RG Jon Runyan: 54.2
4. TE Josiah Deguara: 54.4
5. TE Robert Tonyan: 54.9
The TE position is a complete dumpster fire.
The Tyler Davis experiment should have ended after his abysmal preseason, but he was talked up all offseason so he gets the Amari Rodgers' you get a roster spot until even Aunt Gertie recognizes you can't play.
Degaura and Tonyan make up two of the other non-entities at TE. Tonyan is obviously not right after the ACL. He is also unsigned for and will be 29 heading into the 2023 season. Degaura is still under contract and thus it looks like he will be the starter by default next year after amassing a whopping 11 catches for 106 yards through 10 games this season.
Meanwhile, TE/Tackle Marcedes Lewis is quietly having a poor season in what will undoubtedly his final year playing for the Packers. He had the lowest PFF score on offense on Sunday against Dallas at 40.8, followed by Deguara at 42.3. Tonyan was fifth worst at 55.5.
PS Why is Sammy Watkins still on the roster?
Sammy Watkins is quiet quitting
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:Sammy Watkins is quiet quitting
Then they should quiet cut him.
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:Sammy Watkins is quiet quitting
How could anyone tell? You usually have to show some baseline of actual effort to decline from. Other than one 55 yard catch on a crossing route against the Bears in garbage time where it looked like he was running with a grand piano on his back after he caught the ball, he has 12 catches for 151 yards in 268 snaps.
He creates no separation, runs half-assed routes, and can't play on special teams. I'd almost rather than Amari Rodgers on the roster than him.
Not sure how anyone can make a judgement on the play of the offense line. Whoever decided that an all pro LG should play RT should be fired. Having an overpaid LT with an acl problem for 2 years without a viable replacement. Having Newman play RG. Now they finally have what appears to be the right 5 guys on the field in the correct positions you can expect it to take some time to gel. Runyon had to move from LG to RG which I'm sure takes some time to get used to. Jenkins isn't fully recovered, Bak is day to day. Nijman is an undrafted guy that never knew where they were going to put him.
@Packiderm posted:"Tannehill looked like the HOF QB - he was throwing darts."
Titans receivers were so open Fedya would have been throwin darts!
I'm only 5'8". My throws may be darts, but they'd be batted down by the DL. 
@Fedya posted:I'm only 5'8". My throws may be darts, but they'd be batted down by the DL.
Just creep them out like you do everyone on X4. They’ll leave you alone. That’s your super power.
Well, stick your erudition back in your pants. It’s creeping me out.
For those that would like to see the torture again, NFL network has the Packers on now, and the queens vs Bills next.
Ah, no thanks, Goldie. I don't care to see Rodgers going all diva once again. He was back to his old pattern of throwing his arms in the air after an incompletion, being pissy at the world, etc. Last week he was a different guy and I have to think it helped this team when he stepped back into the role of a leader. Against the Titans, he was just mad at the world and looked like he wanted to be anywhere but at Lambeau. I don't need to see that again, nor do I need to see the D play like they were all afraid of getting too near a Titan receiver...
@Goldie posted:For those that would like to see the torture again, NFL network has the Packers on now, and the queens vs Bills next.
I always watch the game twice. To see what I might have missed and to watch it with a queer eye (If you know what I mean) . Not that there is anything wrong with that ! 
@The Grinder posted:I always watch the game twice. To see what I might have missed and to watch it with a queer eye (If you know what I mean) . Not that there is anything wrong with that !
“Not that there’s anything wrong with that”. Comedy gold. Seinfeld.
Andy Herman, one of the Packers media fanboys, goes pretty dark here about the franchise top to bottom...but I can't say he's wrong on most of his points.
Skipper and Cowherd couldn’t have said it better. Although they would have had some snark included
@Packiderm posted:+ went to bed after the 4th down stop.
- pre game was horrible! Almost fell asleep!
You actually watch the pre-game show?!??
@Packiderm posted:Background noise whilst surfing the net waiting for the game to start.
Same thing I do everyday. There's 2 or 3 things on at all times and I pick and choose what to focus on.