I hope McVince and Rodgers get their **** together even though it sure looks the same as the past few years. Ultimately, this season really depends on how well Pettine does with a mish-mash of rookies and scrubs. So far it's encouraging even with the bumps.
Angry Bald Man and Opie Whizburger win championships.
Grave Digger posted:I don't think there is an issue. They're professionals and coworkers, they don't have to be best buds. Just because Sean McVay just a jumping butt bump with his QB and MM doesn't is not indicative of a rift.
I say it's more indicative of their relationship to gravity.
Grave Digger posted:Henry posted:You can pretty much **** off with that first comment. I'm going to back whichever guy provides the best chance for this team to succeed and we saw McVince had to offer last year.
So you don't think it's incumbent on the HEAD COACH to see there is a problem and bring Rodgers in and iron it out even if it is seemingly inconsequential? Is that it? Does this guy have any responsibilities?
Poor, poor McVince.
That's what you're doing though, you're absolving Rodgers of any responsibility because of McCarthy's poor "management". You can like Rodgers and still think he screwed up and likewise you can dislike McCarthy and still think he did a good job in this game. All errors don't have to be 100% attributed to one or the other.
I don't think there is an issue. They're professionals and coworkers, they don't have to be best buds. Just because Sean McVay just a jumping butt bump with his QB and MM doesn't is not indicative of a rift.
Except I'm not and I've made that clear a thousand times. McVince's ****ed up management isn't about game day and never has been.
It's pretty funny you seem to think this is a popularity contest when it's really about being sick and ****ing tired of seeing wasted seasons. I've made it clear hero worship is for suckers. If McVince and Rodgers with their combined faults can win a championship then just great but quit parroting that McVince is some god damn genius. Cuts both ways.
I'm to the point where I'd like to see nothing but over the top defense all the time.
Timmy! posted:BrainDed posted:...This was 4th and 3 in 3rd quarter. He's looking at a wide open Adams in a clean pocket, comes off it, almost throws a pick to the rookie. Very un-Rodgers like.
Let me add my thanks, 'Ded! Awesome views.
Let me ask for your thoughts on this quoted play.
I may agree Adams was open, but my thinking is whether Rodgers leads him, or throws to the spot where Adams makes his break, it looks like their DB would have a chance to drive to the ball either way.
I'll argue Graham crossing left into the middle of the field would've been the much better throw. Bills # 24 reacted to Adams, #49 reacted to Williams coming out the backfield, drawing the coverage away, and #20 was way behind Graham as soon as he made his break.What say you?
I think if he gets the ball out on time to Adams, it's as easy as a 1st down as you will ever get in the NFL.
Also, notice the route design. They didn't just ask Adams to go one on one, like they did the rook on the other side, they were stacked WR set and ran some interference for him. It worked and worked beautifully, Rodgers just didn't pull the trigger.
Henry posted:I'm to the point where I'd like to see nothing but over the top defense all the time.
I've always been there. Have missed it since about 1996...
I'd settle for 2010.
I think Rodgers felt two things: 1) he may have thought Adams' number wasn't called enough by MM, but 2) he may also have felt he did not target Adams enough. It doesn't have to be one or the other; Rodgers might have carefully worded his comments as to not take full responsibility and yet claim he did.
I do think there's some friction, but it's carefully couched. We don't know what they say to each other privately, but I don't think either of them want to create a split locker room -- no one comes out a winner if that happens. MM probably calls plays Rodgers doesn't like, and Rodgers probably changes plays more than MM likes. It would be good to know what was called vs what was run and if a play was changed, why. Until we know those things, it's all speculation and conjecture.
Henry posted:Except I'm not and I've made that clear a thousand times. McVince's ****ed up management isn't about game day and never has been.
It's pretty funny you seem to think this is a popularity contest when it's really about being sick and ****ing tired of seeing wasted seasons. I've made it clear hero worship is for suckers. If McVince and Rodgers with their combined faults can win a championship then just great but quit parroting that McVince is some god damn genius. Cuts both ways.
I'm to the point where I'd like to see nothing but over the top defense all the time.
I've never said he's a genius, he's a successful football coach who I believe is still the right fit for GB. He's a strong offensive mind with a scheme that is tailored to his HOF QB and relies on that QB to execute.
Playing Buffalo doesn't give Pettine a free pass. The defense left a lot to be desired the first 3 games.
GBFanForLife posted:Playing Buffalo doesn't give Pettine a free pass. The defense left a lot to be desired the first 3 games.
New system...new people...its gonna take time to get it to gel.
The D is #6 after 4 weeks
This list is total Defense on NFL.com
| 1 | Jacksonville Jaguars | 4 | 14 | 56 | 233 | 259.2 | 4.5 | 14.5 | 16 | 53 | 30 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 18 | 141 | 28:44 | 2 | 2 |
| 2 | Baltimore Ravens | 4 | 16.2 | 65 | 251 | 275.8 | 4.4 | 16.5 | 15 | 54 | 28 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 37 | 352 | 27:50 | 4 | 1 |
| 3 | Washington Redskins | 3 | 14.7 | 44 | 177 | 278.0 | 4.7 | 16.7 | 16 | 38 | 42 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 26 | 208 | 26:29 | 4 | 2 |
| 4 | Chicago Bears | 4 | 16.2 | 65 | 231 | 294.5 | 5.1 | 15.5 | 16 | 48 | 33 | 2 | 4 | 50 | 30 | 251 | 26:57 | 8 | 3 |
| 5 | Dallas Cowboys | 4 | 19.2 | 77 | 248 | 306.2 | 4.9 | 18.2 | 25 | 56 | 45 | 2 | 2 | 100 | 30 | 229 | 31:22 | 4 | 2 |
| 6 | Green Bay Packers | 4 | 20.8 | 83 | 245 | 326.2 | 5.3 | 18.2 | 22 | 58 | 38 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 22 | 191 | 29:56 | 3 | 2 |
Henry posted:You can pretty much **** off with that first comment. I'm going to back whichever guy provides the best chance for this team to succeed and we saw McVince had to offer last year.
So you don't think it's incumbent on the HEAD COACH to see there is a problem and bring Rodgers in and iron it out even if it is seemingly inconsequential? Is that it? Does this guy have any responsibilities?
Poor, poor McVince.
Aaron Rodgers on his relationship with coach Mike McCarthy: "Mike and I talk all the time. We have a great relationship. There’s always been great communication between us. Even if there is things that we need to talk about that are tough subjects, we’ve never had a problem finding time and talking. That’s the way it’s been for 10-plus years. "Communication is the basis for a good relationship, wouldn’t you say? I think it is. For any relationship, it starts with good communication and being able to be honest with each other and then hug it out afterwards."
I imagine them gossiping like high school girls.
They also have matching friendship bracelets.
Is this As the World Turns or a football team? STFU and play some ball.
McVince is a sophomoric term used by weak minded people.
McStupidface and McStupidface alone
McAgree.
Dr._Bob posted:They also have matching friendship bracelets.
It doesn't mean anything unless McVince gives Aaron a promise ring too
El-Ka-Bong posted:McVince is a sophomoric term used by weak minded people.
McStupidface and McStupidface alone
McScuse me bitch?!?!
More Marcedes please.
McCarthy made a mistake in allowing his loyalty to his staff to override his judgement- I don’t dispute that.
But I suspect that McCarthy had more issue with Thompson than Capers, for better or worse. And in all honesty, I can see why. The defensive talent needed an overhaul- especially in the secondary. It’s at least plausible that Capers walked away feeling like he was set up to fail. McCarthy may have agreed with him. The talent wasn’t there. But after last year, McCarthy had no choice- and while it may have been a mistake to hold on, I don’t think this makes him a bad head coach. There was a lot more than scheme lacking on that defense.
So Gutekunst has provided the secondary overhaul, and as had been pointed out in analysis of Pettine’s scheme, it’s been fairly bland this far. The improvements we are seeing seem to me to be more talent than scheme. At the very least the guys in the secondary are much better than last year. A complete overhaul with Williams and 2 top rookies.
King was playing well before yet another injury- but this is the decision that will haunt the personnel dept. for years to come. On a team in such desperate need of another OLB pass rusher, they had a good one and chose to get cute. Again, the personnel department blew it. McCarthy has been left to make chicken salad out of chicken **** again...
In 2016 GB had these DBs: Banjo, Brice, Burnett, Ha-Ha, Dorleant, Evans, Goodson, Gunter, Hawkins, Hyde, Randall, Rollins, Shields (1 game, but six years before that), Waters, Whitehead
In 2018 GB still has: Brice, Ha-Ha, Whitehead.
But, just for kicks, let's see where they went. (Those marked with * you could argue are at least as good or better with their new teams.)
1. Evans, Goodson, Rollins, Waters are all at home.
* 2. Banjo: Saints, played in every game last year and this year, not a starter. Last year had an interception and a forced fumble, neither of which he had in three years and two games with GB.
3. Burnett: Started one of two games he played in this year in Pitt, but has been injured. Jury's out.
4. Dorleant: Signed and eventually cut this year by Chiefs; added to Ravens PS.
5. Hawkins: On Carolina's roster. Appeared in one game this year. No stats.
* 6. Hyde: Yeah. Buffalo Pro Bowler. Five INTs last year to go with 65 tackles. This year already has 12 tackles.
* 7. Randall: Started all four games this year in Cleveland. Has two interceptions, six passes defensed, a fumble recovery, and 16 tackles.
* 8. Shields: One-year layoff, now with Rams. Started one game, played in all four. One interception, seven tackles.
What does it all mean? Well, three of the guys are still in GB, so they have value. Of those 2016 guys, four would probably still be on the GB roster and three would have major roles (Hyde, Randall, Shields). Is there more talent in the secondary now? I think so. But how often did we want Dom to play the rookies and they hardly saw the field? This year, we have rookie DBs who are contributing in a big way and they look darn good. They'd probably be on the bench if Dom was still in the booth.
I think Dom did have some talent to work with, but he never was able to maximize it.
Hyde and Randall are now playing safety, where they belong. In Green Bay they were at corner because they were the best options among a garbage lot and behind Clinton-Dix and Burnett at Safety. Remember Burnett was playing slot corner last year. Thompson created/left an absolute dumpster fire for talent in the defensive backfield.
Grave Digger posted:Henry posted:You can pretty much **** off with that first comment. I'm going to back whichever guy provides the best chance for this team to succeed and we saw McVince had to offer last year.
So you don't think it's incumbent on the HEAD COACH to see there is a problem and bring Rodgers in and iron it out even if it is seemingly inconsequential? Is that it? Does this guy have any responsibilities?
Poor, poor McVince.
Aaron Rodgers on his relationship with coach Mike McCarthy: "Mike and I talk all the time. We have a great relationship. There’s always been great communication between us. Even if there is things that we need to talk about that are tough subjects, we’ve never had a problem finding time and talking. That’s the way it’s been for 10-plus years. "Communication is the basis for a good relationship, wouldn’t you say? I think it is. For any relationship, it starts with good communication and being able to be honest with each other and then hug it out afterwards."
Great! They should go on Oprah then go win a Superbowl!
Grave Digger posted:Henry posted:Except I'm not and I've made that clear a thousand times. McVince's ****ed up management isn't about game day and never has been.
It's pretty funny you seem to think this is a popularity contest when it's really about being sick and ****ing tired of seeing wasted seasons. I've made it clear hero worship is for suckers. If McVince and Rodgers with their combined faults can win a championship then just great but quit parroting that McVince is some god damn genius. Cuts both ways.
I'm to the point where I'd like to see nothing but over the top defense all the time.
I've never said he's a genius, he's a successful football coach who I believe is still the right fit for GB. He's a strong offensive mind with a scheme that is tailored to his HOF QB and relies on that QB to execute.
Right, he's a very good OC.
We should go on The View and discuss it with the ladies.
El-Ka-Bong posted:McVince is a sophomoric term used by weak minded people.
McStupidface and McStupidface alone
It's a thing now. Don't fight it.
One glaring difference I see with the D so far is how effective their blitzes are. I believe they're #1 in that category. Pettine know how to scheme open free blitzes. How many times did we see a blitzer in Dom's D get completely stonewalled.
Fandame posted:In 2016 GB had these DBs: Banjo, Brice, Burnett, Ha-Ha, Dorleant, Evans, Goodson, Gunter, Hawkins, Hyde, Randall, Rollins, Shields (1 game, but six years before that), Waters, Whitehead
In 2018 GB still has: Brice, Ha-Ha, Whitehead.
But, just for kicks, let's see where they went. (Those marked with * you could argue are at least as good or better with their new teams.)
1. Evans, Goodson, Rollins, Waters are all at home.
* 2. Banjo: Saints, played in every game last year and this year, not a starter. Last year had an interception and a forced fumble, neither of which he had in three years and two games with GB.
3. Burnett: Started one of two games he played in this year in Pitt, but has been injured. Jury's out.
4. Dorleant: Signed and eventually cut this year by Chiefs; added to Ravens PS.
5. Hawkins: On Carolina's roster. Appeared in one game this year. No stats.
* 6. Hyde: Yeah. Buffalo Pro Bowler. Five INTs last year to go with 65 tackles. This year already has 12 tackles.
* 7. Randall: Started all four games this year in Cleveland. Has two interceptions, six passes defensed, a fumble recovery, and 16 tackles.
* 8. Shields: One-year layoff, now with Rams. Started one game, played in all four. One interception, seven tackles.
What does it all mean? Well, three of the guys are still in GB, so they have value. Of those 2016 guys, four would probably still be on the GB roster and three would have major roles (Hyde, Randall, Shields). Is there more talent in the secondary now? I think so. But how often did we want Dom to play the rookies and they hardly saw the field? This year, we have rookie DBs who are contributing in a big way and they look darn good. They'd probably be on the bench if Dom was still in the booth.
I think Dom did have some talent to work with, but he never was able to maximize it.
Far be it from me to ever dispute that Dom failed to maximize the talent he was given or that he should have been fired years before he was finally kicked to the curb, but with regard to the 2016 and 2017 seasons, let's take a closer look at all the TALENT that Ted supposedly gave him.
After game 1 of the 2016 season, Dom was left with Randall (a safety forced to play out of position by Ted), Rollins (a college basketball player who played so well he is now out of the NFL), Hyde (who always lacked the physical tools to play CB but is a fine safety for the Bills), and whatever adjective you want to describe the group of Gunter, Goodson, Dorleant, and Hawkins (only Hawkins is currently on a NFL roster and he has contributed nothing in Carolina).
That is one awful group of cornerbacks.
After the CB shart show in the 2016 NFC Championship in Atlanta, surely Ted went to work to add TALENT at CB for the 2017 season, right? Well, not much.
Ted did use his first draft pick on a CB. Unfortunately, the player he drafted had a known shoulder injury and not surprisingly he missed half the season due to his shoulder. That is on Ted, not Dom.
Ted also shocked the fan base by actually signing a veteran free agent CB. Of course, that free agent had played most of his career in Green Bay and the market for his services was so cold that he signed a modest one-year deal. House then proceeded to get injured/miss over a 1/4 of the season (just like he did during his previous stint in GB) and not play very well when he was not injured.
To recap, in 2017 at CB Dom had an injured rookie who missed 1/2 the season, a washed up journeyman who missed 1/4 of the season, Randall, Rollins for few games of poor play before he too got injured, and then Pipkins, Hawkins, Gunter, and Donatello Brown.
One year later, only Kevin King remains on the Packers' roster out of that entire collection of TALENT and not one of the others (except House who was CB#5 before going on IR) is getting any playing time at CB anywhere in the NFL in 2018.
There is a reason Gutey focused so heavily on cornerback this offseason and it is not because Dom had so much talent to work with at the position.
I very much appreciate what Gu has done but I wonder what we'd have on D if he had been picking in the late 20's this year. Even if you make the argument that he gets all the same guys but Alexander, because Alexander would not have fallen that far. You still don't have Alexander. Draft class looks noticeably different without him.
Need to go back another year on the DB list and include Heyward. Another stud that got away. We had the talent, we didn't retain the right talent.
DH13 posted:I very much appreciate what Gu has done but I wonder what we'd have on D if he had been picking in the late 20's this year. Even if you make the argument that he gets all the same guys but Alexander, because Alexander would not have fallen that far. You still don't have Alexander. Draft class looks noticeably different without him.
This was a good year for corners in the middle-to-late rounds. I wouldn't have minded trading back in that case, getting Anthony Miller (or Isaiah Oliver), still take Valdes-Scantling later but spam the corner position a bit more, especially if the "extra" pick could have been spun in to a Isaac Yiadom in the late 3rd, for example.
Compare MM's offense with Andy Reid's offense. KC's offense would have any defense confused. Lots of innovative plays called at KC. Sort of a dull, overdone playbook is being used at Green Bay.
