Add Hundley & Kizer to that list too & Taco Wallace
Floridarob posted:Henry posted:Yeah, it's not his arm. You trying throwing on a plant leg with a ****ed up knee. That's where your technique argument comes in as well. Rodgers played out the season with a gimped knee. Not some huge achievement overall but coupled with a god awful Oline, rookie receivers and what you get is the whole offense, himself included, looking like shit.
The knee injury wasn't to his plant leg. It was to his left leg.
I think it is more in his head than anything. 1st game against Chicago his leg had to hurt a hell of lot more than it did last week and week one he was money in the 2nd half. This past sunday he could not hit anyone. And the pass rush looked better for chicago week one than it did last week. Aarons got the yips...Tell him to go see Chuck Knobloch or Rick Ankiel for counselling.
The first week I can guarantee you he got a pain shot. It's pretty apparent you've never dealt with a knee injury. Even a sprain doesn't go away by practicing and running around (a lot) for 17 weeks. Doesn't happen. You get the yips when you play with your head on a swivel and your mobility, which is a big part of your game, is limited. Yet, everyone will call him soft. Do people not realize how ****ing bad the right side of the Oline is? Do you think it helps his knee and body overall when he's scrambling for his life on a bad knee or under a pile of Dlinemen? Do people think you can just keep running the ball and run "short, quick" passes without the defenses adjusting to take that short game away? Do you think it's tougher to run any offense when the defense knows they can get home on a regular basis with 4 and even 3 guys? Does the same predictable game plan really help with all these other factors? I'm amazed Rodgers only had 2 INTs.
Some of the conjecture on this board is f'in hilarious. If Rodgers really is completely washed out it's not because it's all in his head or he's some team cancer. It's because he's gotten the piss beat out of him due to lack of talent and a bullshit, stale offensive scheme. Yeah, that'll make you think twice and adjust your game for the worse. It's called self-preservation for **** sakes.
Also, I love you Leroy but you should shut your ****ing mouth and know better.
There was a giant level of suck on this team from top to bottom. AR was just as much of the problem as anybody else. No excuses. Fix it!
MichiganPacker posted:Henry posted:ChilliJon posted:Floridarob posted:Kizer says he is ready to. Says this year he has prepared so that if given the opportunity the transition from Rodgers would be "seamless". As the year has gone by and Rodgers has struggled, that distance is not that as far as it once was.
Jeezus f..q
Double Jebus ****q
Rodgers isn't going anywhere despite mine or anyone else's speculation. Get healthy, get an oline, win games.
Triple that. I don't think enough people on this board watched games with these guys starting at QB for the Packers: Randy Wright, Anthony Dilweg, Mike Tomczak, Rich Campbell, John Hadl, Jerry Tagge, Scott Hunter, and David Whitehurst.
If you are an NFC North fan which starting QB do you want in our division. It's not even close.
The transition would be seamless from Rodgers to a guy who has a career completion percentage of 53.6% with 11 TDs and 23 Interceptions? Are you fukking kidding me? Rodgers is at 61.8% this year and people are concerned? Kizer? Really? This is not Joe Montana to Steve Young.
Don't forget Jim Del Gaizo...
bdplant posted:There was a giant level of suck on this team from top to bottom. AR was just as much of the problem as anybody else. No excuses. Fix it!
So Rodgers isn't a cancer, slacker, arm possessed by an alien, jedi fending off 5 guys with 3 olinemen while using mind control to stop defenses from flooding the LOS but ignoring the obvious passes for sandlot glory?
Check. The whole reason Uncle Ted and McVince were shitcanned (one year too late) is to "fix it".
What team right now would you trade starting QBs with for the next 3 years? I can think of one. Several teams have guys that are roughly equivalent. Does anyone on this board seriously think that swapping any of these guys in for Rodgers this year would have made this a 10 win team?
Teams with better starting QB situations in 2019-202;
Kansas City (Mahomes)
Teams with good starting QBs that you could debate vs. Rodgers (although I wouldn't trade Rodgers for any of these guys)
Brees, Newton, Rivers, Brady, Roethisberger, Luck
Teams with decent starting QBs that would trade them for Rodgers immediately
Goff, Wentz/Foles, Ryan, Cousins, Stafford, Wilson, D. Watson, Mayfield, Prescott, A. Smith (Before he got hurt)
Teams who need new or massive improvement for their QBs
Cardinals (Rosen), Bortles or whoever else starts for the Jags, Dolphins (Tannehill), Raiders (Carr), Bears (Trubisky), Titans (Mariota), Eli Manning, Broncos (Keenum), Bucs (Winston/Fitzgerald), Jets (Darnold), Bills (Josh Allen), Ravens (Flacco/Jackson), Bengals (Dalton)
The thing is if you traded Rodgers you'd also have to trade for about 15 guys for both sides of the ball.
Oh, I should add to my previous screed. How many people would've pissed and moaned if Rodgers forced a pass that was picked off rather than throwing it away? Oh wait, trying to protect his stats by not forcing a likely INT. Of course.
MichiganPacker posted:What team right now would you trade starting QBs with for the next 3 years? I can think of one. Several teams have guys that are roughly equivalent. Does anyone on this board seriously think that swapping any of these guys in for Rodgers this year would have made this a 10 win team?
Teams with better starting QB situations in 2019-202;
Kansas City (Mahomes)
Teams with good starting QBs that you could debate vs. Rodgers (although I wouldn't trade Rodgers for any of these guys)
Brees, Newton, Rivers, Brady, Roethisberger, Luck
Those QBs had better seasons than Rodgers in 2018, that doesn't mean they are better QBs. Also a team not wanting to swap QBs is not indicative of Rodgers skill. He's 35, of course teams would rather gamble with guys like Luck and Mahomes, who they could get a decade out of rather a couple years of Aaron Rodgers. Same would be true with Brees, Brady, or Ben...no one is swapping their young franchise QB for those guys. Mahomes has proven nothing other than he's had a great 2018 season, looks like a bright future, but let's check back in for year 4 of being a starting QB and see where he's at. Andy Dalton and RG3 had great rookie seasons also.
The injury is on Rodgers left knee, but that is as important as the plant leg with regards to follow through. Stepping into a throw is not just a catchy phrase commentators use, it's a real thing for a QB.
Did the knee physically bother him all year or was it somewaht psychological? Doesn't matter, both can factor into a QBs throwing mechanics.
MichiganPacker posted:Teams with better starting QB situations in 2019-2020;
Kansas City (Mahomes)
Only if Reid is still the Coach, and then it depends on who is calling plays in GB.
Teams with good starting QBs that you could debate vs. Rodgers (although I wouldn't trade Rodgers for any of these guys)
Maybe -- Brees, Newton, Rivers, Brady, Roethisberger, Luck
Again, who is the OC in GB the next 3 years?
Rodgers tweaked his groin on the Hail Mary heave at the end of the 1st half Sunday. He was pretty effed up the 2nd half.
There is zero reason for him to play another down the next two weeks.
Henry posted:Oh, I should add to my previous screed. How many people would've pissed and moaned if Rodgers forced a pass that was picked off rather than throwing it away? Oh wait, trying to protect his stats by not forcing a likely INT. Of course.
I'm sick of this narrative as well. It lacks context. How many throw aways were on 1st or 2nd down? The criticism would make some more sense if most of the throwaways were on 3rd and long. In that case, an interception 25-30 yards downfield is relatively the same as a punt, so that type of interception wouldn't mean much. I haven't seen anyone report those stats for the throwaways.
I do seem to remember people criticizing Rodgers a few years ago for holding the ball too long and taking sacks, instead of throwing the ball away. That's a big negative on 1st or 2nd down. Losing 7 yards on a sack on 3rd and 8 when you are trying to extend the play is pretty harmless and worth the risk.
Grave Digger posted:MichiganPacker posted:What team right now would you trade starting QBs with for the next 3 years? I can think of one. Several teams have guys that are roughly equivalent. Does anyone on this board seriously think that swapping any of these guys in for Rodgers this year would have made this a 10 win team?
Teams with better starting QB situations in 2019-202;
Kansas City (Mahomes)
Teams with good starting QBs that you could debate vs. Rodgers (although I wouldn't trade Rodgers for any of these guys)
Brees, Newton, Rivers, Brady, Roethisberger, Luck
Those QBs had better seasons than Rodgers in 2018, that doesn't mean they are better QBs. Also a team not wanting to swap QBs is not indicative of Rodgers skill. He's 35, of course teams would rather gamble with guys like Luck and Mahomes, who they could get a decade out of rather a couple years of Aaron Rodgers. Same would be true with Brees, Brady, or Ben...no one is swapping their young franchise QB for those guys. Mahomes has proven nothing other than he's had a great 2018 season, looks like a bright future, but let's check back in for year 4 of being a starting QB and see where he's at. Andy Dalton and RG3 had great rookie seasons also.
That's why I said for the next 3 years, not longer term.
The better way to put this is that if you had to go all in and win next year, who would you rather have than Rodgers.
Another way to put it is which starting QBs would have won more games in Green Bay this year?
The answer might be that most GMs would still choose Rodgers and he'd be in everyone's top 3-4 choices.
Hungry5 posted:The injury is on Rodgers left knee, but that is as important as the plant leg with regards to follow through. Stepping into a throw is not just a catchy phrase commentators use, it's a real thing for a QB.
Did the knee physically bother him all year or was it somewaht psychological? Doesn't matter, both can factor into a QBs throwing mechanics.
So can having everyone except your LT being pushed up into you as you throw.
Philbin being coy about the starting QB on Sunday. Makes sense to shut down AR and get a good look at Kizer.
Hungry5 posted:The injury is on Rodgers left knee, but that is as important as the plant leg with regards to follow through. Stepping into a throw is not just a catchy phrase commentators use, it's a real thing for a QB.
Did the knee physically bother him all year or was it somewaht psychological? Doesn't matter, both can factor into a QBs throwing mechanics.
Maybe someone here who has had a bone bruise can correct me, but he was injured on September 9, he stopped showing up on the injury report on October 7 and hasn't appeared on it since, does a deep bone bruise really full heal that quickly? Especially when you're very likely taking more shots to that area on a weekly basis. I agree with you though, I think the knee bothered him longer than he or the team let on and likely had a psychological impact. He's played like a QB who is low on confidence, we all assumed it was a lack of confidence in his team, but maybe part of it was in himself.
To me Aaron Rodgers is the greatest QB in the history of the NFL not just the Packers. He can play QB for the Packers until the day he decides to hang them up. He has earned that right. But I will still keep screaming at him to throw the damn ball instead of holding it forever. When I said Kizer has cut the distance to taking over for Rodgers it was more in jest with Kizers "seamless" comments. Kizer will never be Aaron Rodgers or anything close.
Hopefully Gute can get an offensive line put together to protect the franchise. Bell, Mcray, and Spriggs are just not cutting it. Protect Aaron and watch his accuracy improve. Hopefully this year will be the equivalent of Favres last year with Sherman when he threw 75 interceptions or whatever it was and came back the next year and played great for McCarthy.
Why would anyone need a look at Kizer? I think everyone saw all they need to see in week 1.
Grave Digger posted:Maybe someone here who has had a bone bruise can correct me, but he was injured on September 9, he stopped showing up on the injury report on October 7 and hasn't appeared on it since, does a deep bone bruise really full heal that quickly?
Not true, he's been on the injury report every week since the knee in week 1.
https://www.packers.com/team/injury-report/week/8
https://www.packers.com/team/injury-report/week/9
https://www.packers.com/team/injury-report/week/10
https://www.packers.com/team/injury-report/week/11
Still dealing in hypotheticals, of course, but if a trade of Rodgers were to happen, it may not really matter who our QB is. IOW, follow the Ravens/Bears/Others method; shut 'em down defense, solid to above-average OL and RB, and a 'game manager' at QB.
Brainwashed Boris posted:If Mitch Trubisky threw for 4,000 yds / 23 TD's / 2 INT's -- everyone in the media would be blowing him as the next Aaron Rodgers.
Rodgers does it....and he sucks. Ok.....
with two late round rookies taking a ton of snaps.
Packer fans sometimes forget how good we have it
MichiganPacker posted:Hungry5 posted:The injury is on Rodgers left knee, but that is as important as the plant leg with regards to follow through. Stepping into a throw is not just a catchy phrase commentators use, it's a real thing for a QB.
Did the knee physically bother him all year or was it somewaht psychological? Doesn't matter, both can factor into a QBs throwing mechanics.
So can having everyone except your LT being pushed up into you as you throw.
That and he uses that knee to run away.
Two things: 1) If his knee was that bad, he shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't run away and not come up with some sort of hitch or gimp. If it's that bad you can't plant, then why run, plant, and make cuts? 2) If you're not mobile and you're hurt and your OL is crap, then why hold the ball so long? Over and over we've hashed out that on many, many occasions Rodgers has had guys open in the flat or early in routes but he doesn't take the throw. He had far more success this year throwing early, so why not save the knee and get rid of it?
I get that his knee may have affected him all year, but then make adjustments, especially when what you've been doing doesn't work. (And please don't talk to me about knee injuries -- I've had some doozies of knee injuries and today have a fake one... actually, it's my third fake one in the same knee after infection and other stuff...)
So say my students. (Without the "dame" of course or they'd find out how tough I really am!) 
Fandame posted:(And please don't talk to me about knee injuries -- I've had some doozies of knee injuries and today have a fake one... actually, it's my third fake one in the same knee after infection and other stuff...)
I'm not surprised you have a fake injury.
Just kidding. Yes, I know the antecedent of one is knee, not injury. And three knee replacements? Yikes. 
I consider myself very lucky not to have needed surgery up to this point in my life, although I'm getting to the point where I need glasses because my arms aren't long enough....
GBFanForLife posted:Why would anyone need a look at Kizer? I think everyone saw all they need to see in week 1.
I don't think that was a fair assessment. I think Kizer is better than he has shown.
RochNyFan posted:GBFanForLife posted:Why would anyone need a look at Kizer? I think everyone saw all they need to see in week 1.
I don't think that was a fair assessment. I think Kizer is better than he has shown.
Why?
Kizer may be Hundley 2.0. I'd rather see what Boyle can do.
mrtundra posted:Kizer may be Hundley 2.0. I'd rather see what Boyle can do.
Yeah. me too. Very raw, but I think he has a much higher ceiling.
phaedrus posted:mrtundra posted:Kizer may be Hundley 2.0. I'd rather see what Boyle can do.
Yeah. me too. Very raw, but I think he has a much higher ceiling.
Same. Kizer reminded me of a slightly crisper Hundley. Boyle was capital R raw, but it looked like he also had better vision, more touch on the ball, and scanned the field well. Let’s see what he’s got...
RochNyFan posted:GBFanForLife posted:Why would anyone need a look at Kizer? I think everyone saw all they need to see in week 1.
I don't think that was a fair assessment. I think Kizer is better than he has shown.
I have no idea if he’s better but no one can say he is or isn’t after 1/4 of a football game 3 months ago.
I guess those games last year mean nothing
And the talent and coaching he had with him meant nothing either.
Pikes Peak posted:I guess those games last year mean nothing
He was on a historically disfunctuonal team and he was a rookie. Did you happen to see guys like Troy Aikman and Steve Young as rookies?
He very well could be a shit QB. No one will know until he gets some meaningful playing time somewhere down the road. Hopefully it doesn’t happen in Green Bay since that means Rodgers is healthy.