TT was right in not holding onto TOG. The Packers had a either or problem, they could keep Brent or Rogers but not both for long. If TT went with Brent the Packers will be going into this draft needing a QB bad.
I have it on good authority that Rodgers agent told the Packer brass, "If you bring Favre back, we'll be testing our options elsewhere." or words to that effect.
Rodgers was gone if they brought Favre back
Rodgers was gone if they brought Favre back
Enjoyed the effort Max, and I will play the role of the Angels Advocate just for fun
Favre could have had anything he wanted had he only come clean, committed to 2-3 years and showed he was a team player willing to do whatever it takes to win a Championship. He chose a different path and has been duly rewarded.
quote:Originally posted by Max Headroom:
Going to play half Devil's advocate and half my opinion.
Was he right in not bringing back Favre? I still say that is incomplete.
To qualify "incomplete" is that it doesn't mean the Rodgers isn't a wonderful QB.
But incomplete is the sense, we were at the Championship Game in 2007. Based on appearances (which may or may not be accurate) Favre wanted to come back. Favre wanted Moss. Wanted to keep the guards, etc, etc. He wanted to "win now".
By moving on from Favre, TT made the decision to "build" and not pull some big deals. The reason that is incomplete, is TT has had some good success with the free agency (something I used to curse him one, until I viewed his results).
The Vikings offered Favre the opportunity to win now. He made a stupid throw and cost his team the game.
Disagree on the incomplete. Both Favre and Moss went to teams that were fully stocked, ready to "win now" teams. They had excellent regular seasons, advanced deep into the playoffs and failed miserably in crunch time despite being the alleged "final piece". Philly experienced the same thing in 2004 with a killer team that "went for it now" and added (2) superstar Free Agents, T.O at WR and Jevon Kearse at DE. They have no trophies either, so I say its a flawed theory.
There is no hypothetical in my comments here- this is what actually happened. You started from a false premise that you can "win now" simply by making different or more aggressive moves. It doesn't work that way, and the better percentage play is not to bet it all on one year, but rather build a solid core of repeated success so that one day, everything falls together and you make it to the top.
As a player, I would still argue that no one is more entertaining or, though it is mocked here, a "warrior". He took a huge beating on Sunday night that I haven't seen a QB take for a while.
No argument here, if what you seek is entertainment, then Favre takes the prize. But your grading system above was about winning championships so in fact you have to give Favre, the vikes, Moss and the Patriots either a FAIL or an incomplete in that category as well
I don't know if they could have won a Super Bowl with Favre as a Packer or if Favre wanted to play for a GM that wanted to move forward with youth and the draft. I just don't.
The reason for the incomplete, because TT has yet to build a championship team.
Was he right in drafting Rodgers? Hell yes!
I'm I completely sold on him as a championship G.M.? No.
Has he done a good job as G.M.? Yes. He seems to move quickly on from mistakes. He has a good track record with free agency. He has an eye for skill position players.
We saw how far Favre could take a team that wanted to win now
Yes we did see how far. Back- to- back epic failures in the NFC Championship game with two different squads. And we should have built a team around that ?
Let's hope TT and MM can take us two steps farther. I know Rodgers has the talent, but does he have the coach and/or GM to allow him to succeed at the next level.
Jury is still out on the HC and GM, but one thing we know for certain is that Favre won't/didn't/couldn't and neither could Moss. The two of them have been on 7 different teams and only one of those squads is wearing a ring today. The team you gave an incomplete.
Shall we model our franchise after the all time winners ( 12- time Champion Green Bay Packers), or the All- Time Losers in Minny ?...( who allegedly wanna win now)
Favre could have had anything he wanted had he only come clean, committed to 2-3 years and showed he was a team player willing to do whatever it takes to win a Championship. He chose a different path and has been duly rewarded.
Will respond later tonight. A lot of good stuff here.
quote:Originally posted by Boris:
I have it on good authority that Rodgers agent told the Packer brass, "If you bring Favre back, we'll be testing our options elsewhere." or words to that effect.
Rodgers was gone if they brought Favre back
I always suspected that was the case.
quote:Originally posted by Max Headroom:
Will respond later tonight. A lot of good stuff here.
No rush, we aren't going anywhere THIS year....
We haven't really gone anywhere yet to say TT was right and I don't think anyone would have made a mistake taking Aaron Rdogers.
TT had the balls to make the correct decision. He knew Favre was a diva and that Rodgers could be an upgrade. All Rodgers needed was an opportunity.
TT made the tough call that, quite frankly, few people would have the guts to make. He took an enormous amount of heat, but he was right the whole time. Kudos to TT.
TT made the tough call that, quite frankly, few people would have the guts to make. He took an enormous amount of heat, but he was right the whole time. Kudos to TT.
Ted needs a superbowl, until then, he was "not wrong"
I was going to respond, but I love El-ka-bong's response too much.
Hey, this Favre thing will be over when he retires in 2017, so until then "Go Packers!"
I had a co-worker tell me he was disappointed in the game, because "they didn't carry his ass off on a stretcher!"
I'll punt on this thread, but I just hope I'm a better punter than B.J. Something I'm not too familiar with after marriage.
quote:Originally posted by Boris:
I have it on good authority that Rodgers agent told the Packer brass, "If you bring Favre back, we'll be testing our options elsewhere." or words to that effect.
Rodgers was gone if they brought Favre back
Couldn't they have franchised him for this year and delayed the decision until this off season? They certainly had the cap room. It probably would have ticked AR off, but i am thinking it could have been done.
It doesn't surprise me he said it, and I don't blame him for it either.
quote:Originally posted by Max Headroom:
I had a co-worker tell me he was disappointed in the game, because "they didn't carry his ass off on a stretcher!"
I heard that more than a couple of times today too, and what a cheap thing to say. I was happy as heck he lost, but never want to see any player have that happen to them. Try sitting in a stadium when it happens and see if you still think that.
My co-worker was joking - he knew where I stood and he stood about Favre.
Great, we gave up three picks so the Browns could get some guy.
quote:Who's Clay Matthews??
He played for the Browns back in the 80s. Linebacker I think. I heard he had a kid who plays....
quote:Originally posted by Shoeless Joe:quote:Originally posted by Fedya:
Does anyone know if we used the 3rd rounder for Favre to trade up and get Clay Matthews?
I thought they used it to move up and get BJ Sander.
Am I the only one here who thinks all the oral sex references got tired months ago?
quote:Originally posted by Max Headroom:
El-kA-bong. I may have accidentally reported you fir "abuse" trying to respond on the iPhone. Sorry.
Well, he does abuse himself quite often.
Not sure of the right way to post this picture, but I'll give it a shot
Attachments
Images (1)
TT should have traded TOG to the Vikes for a first rounder instead of the Jets. Favre would have failed with the messed up shoulder and we would have gotten a first instead of a third.
quote:Originally posted by Parrothead:
Not sure of the right way to post this picture, but I'll give it a shot
If only they'd have used that pick for Farve to draft CMIII instead of reaching for him like they did.
Actually, rasta, I think they did use that pick for Matthews.
Too bad TT didn't use that pick for a decent player! 
thanks Satori!
someday I should learn how to use this internet thing
someday I should learn how to use this internet thing
quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:
TT had the balls to make the correct decision. He knew Favre was a diva and that Rodgers could be an upgrade. All Rodgers needed was an opportunity.
TT made the tough call that, quite frankly, few people would have the guts to make. He took an enormous amount of heat, but he was right the whole time. Kudos to TT.
Yeah, imagine how it would have felt if Rodgers had gone elsewhere and lit up the league. It would have been like a Falcons fan watching Favre just destroy teams in the '90s...
"Favre is the only player in the NFL who loves to play the game." "He is like a little kid out there." "He is still having fun." "He is a gunslinger."
The rest of the players in the NFL don't love to play the game, there parents are forcing them to play a game in which they hate. They do it for the money and that's it. But good ol brent, he just does it for the love of the game.
Brent Favray is the only person in the NFL who thinks after he loses a game by throwing a bone headed pick that he went out on top.
NEWS FLASH BRENT!
You single handedly blew the entire season for the Vikes with an ill advised pass that even high schoolers don't attempt.
You blew the Packers-Eagles game by throwing up a punt.
You blew the Packers-Giants game by throwing a terrible pass.
You blew the Packers-Falcons game by laying an egg and 2 picks and a fumble.
You blew the Packers-Rams game by throwing 6 picks. 3 of which were pick 6's and the other was returned within the 5 yard line.
You totally laid an egg against the vikes 4 years ago.
I could keep on going but I don't have that kind of time.
You won a SB back when I was 23 years old and since then you have blown every single big game you have played in.
If that's going out on top I would hate to see what going out on the bottom is like.
Brent Favray = The most overrated QB in history.
Now go mow your lawn, kill some innocent animals, and learn how to dress there Tex.
The rest of the players in the NFL don't love to play the game, there parents are forcing them to play a game in which they hate. They do it for the money and that's it. But good ol brent, he just does it for the love of the game.
Brent Favray is the only person in the NFL who thinks after he loses a game by throwing a bone headed pick that he went out on top.
NEWS FLASH BRENT!
You single handedly blew the entire season for the Vikes with an ill advised pass that even high schoolers don't attempt.
You blew the Packers-Eagles game by throwing up a punt.
You blew the Packers-Giants game by throwing a terrible pass.
You blew the Packers-Falcons game by laying an egg and 2 picks and a fumble.
You blew the Packers-Rams game by throwing 6 picks. 3 of which were pick 6's and the other was returned within the 5 yard line.
You totally laid an egg against the vikes 4 years ago.
I could keep on going but I don't have that kind of time.
You won a SB back when I was 23 years old and since then you have blown every single big game you have played in.
If that's going out on top I would hate to see what going out on the bottom is like.
Brent Favray = The most overrated QB in history.
Now go mow your lawn, kill some innocent animals, and learn how to dress there Tex.
quote:I could keep on going but I don't have that kind of time.
You won a SB back when I was 23 years old and since then you have blown every single big game you have played in.
Desmond Howard was also the MVP of that game, and Reggie White was just a much the team leader as Brent.
Brent has underachieved and choked in big games ever since that first SB. He also missed a few wide open receivers in SB XXXII as I recall...but man he likes to have fun...... if you consider losing the big ones a good time.
quote:Originally posted by Herschel:
Great, we gave up three picks so the Browns could get some guy.
And he's got to be at least 50 years old.
quote:Originally posted by emak:quote:Originally posted by Shoeless Joe:quote:Originally posted by Fedya:
Does anyone know if we used the 3rd rounder for Favre to trade up and get Clay Matthews?
I thought they used it to move up and get BJ Sander.
Am I the only one here who thinks all the oral sex references got tired months ago?
I hope this means all the "ballwasher" references stop, too.
quote:Brent Favray = The most overrated QB in history.
I know people want to engage in historical revisionism because of the circumstances under which Brett Favre left the Packers, but the honor of being the most overrated QB should probably go to Joe Namath.
quote:Originally posted by MuskyFever:
If that's going out on top I would hate to see what going out on the bottom is like.
Relax....
Going out on the bottom would be Todd Marinovich or Ryan Leaf.
Quit while you're way behind
As much as I loved Joe Willie in his day, agree, he's in the Hall purely due to one game. It was a hell of a game, though.
quote:Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
I saw somewhere that they used the pick for ammo.
Nobody told me I am a Packer. Where's my NFL minimum salary? I'll gladly take that.
I still believe that TT would have kept Favre had Favre acted somewhat like a normal human being in the spring of 2008. It wasn't the loss in the NFC Championship that spurred TT to want to get rid of Favre, it was the B.S. that Favre put the organization through in the off-season that was the final straw.
Favre thought he could jerk the chains of Thompson and co. in the 2008 off-season and get away with it. He thought they would crumble under the pressure and give into him. He was wrong, and we all know the rest of the story. Frankly, it's a story that's still not completely over, but it's getting close to the final chapter.
Favre thought he could jerk the chains of Thompson and co. in the 2008 off-season and get away with it. He thought they would crumble under the pressure and give into him. He was wrong, and we all know the rest of the story. Frankly, it's a story that's still not completely over, but it's getting close to the final chapter.
I agree, plus I think Mike McCarthy had a lot more to do with "no more Favre" than is commonly stated.
If MM wanted Favre back, TT would have figured a way out to make it happen. But MM saw a player who was fading, another on the rise, and most importantly, Favre was putting himself above team and everybody else. That doesn't jibe with "Pittsburgh macho" and no way is Packer people.
If MM wanted Favre back, TT would have figured a way out to make it happen. But MM saw a player who was fading, another on the rise, and most importantly, Favre was putting himself above team and everybody else. That doesn't jibe with "Pittsburgh macho" and no way is Packer people.
I'm pretty sure that last multi-hour meeting prior to Brent accepting the trade to the Jest was rather interesting to say the least.
Isn't it possible that besides all the off-the-field prima donna BS, MM also saw a QB whose ceiling had been lowered to that of 'just good enough to get you to the precipice and then blow it' for your team? Look at the ever-growing resume:
1. 2001 - STL debacle
2. 2002 - Ookie and the Dirty Birds debacle
3. 2003 - 4th and 26 OT horrible, horrible INT debacle
4. 2004 - The Queenie debacle
5. 2007 - NYG debacle
6. 2008 - Dolphin debacle (basically a playoff game, as the winner moved on and the loser went home)
7. 2009 - NO ridiculous INT debacle
Every season since 2001 has seen him gag (either with a completely awful performance or a choke job turnover at the end) in the last game of the season that also happened to be the most important of the year at the time. Sure, he's had very good playoff games (about 3 since Super Bowl 32 out of 11), but perhaps some of us are not simply looking at the results on the field. When a ceiling is defined that's less than the potential for a title, it's time to move on. The fact that he had become an uncontrollable dink could have been secondary.
1. 2001 - STL debacle
2. 2002 - Ookie and the Dirty Birds debacle
3. 2003 - 4th and 26 OT horrible, horrible INT debacle
4. 2004 - The Queenie debacle
5. 2007 - NYG debacle
6. 2008 - Dolphin debacle (basically a playoff game, as the winner moved on and the loser went home)
7. 2009 - NO ridiculous INT debacle
Every season since 2001 has seen him gag (either with a completely awful performance or a choke job turnover at the end) in the last game of the season that also happened to be the most important of the year at the time. Sure, he's had very good playoff games (about 3 since Super Bowl 32 out of 11), but perhaps some of us are not simply looking at the results on the field. When a ceiling is defined that's less than the potential for a title, it's time to move on. The fact that he had become an uncontrollable dink could have been secondary.