I think it really comes down to the unrealistic expectation of "health insurance" being he answer. Really, the answer is that if you factor in the health risks and mental damage that comes with a pro football career, the game truly shouldn't be played.
The owners are already rich- if the NFL dissolved tomorrow, they'll all still be rich. So the question comes down to this- what would the players have if they didn't have the NFL. They wouldn't have college degrees (legit or not), they wouldn't have the money, millions or thousands. But they'd have their health. Or they wouldn't.
This is ultimately where the discussion ends. The game is too dangerous to think that Healy insurance even makes sense. The owners don't need the NFL to be rich. The players would have nothing but that precious health if they didn't have football.
. This is no different then the rest of the ountry operates. Greedy Bastards are in charge. But it's becoming more difficult for them.quote:Originally posted by Goldie:
and you are right Boris, here we go.
"I talked to so many guys going through the same thing. Owners are trying to get rid of workers comp totally for former players because it costs too much. They don't want to pay for any future health care."
Employers are just greedy bastards, and it's the more money they make, the less they want to give to the employees that made them rich.Hate to hear about this, there should be some benefit these players can get. The NFL is worth BILLIONS.
quote:Originally posted by Jaymo:quote:Originally posted by Fountainfox:
In 1991, near the summit of Majik's career, the average NFL salary had risen to about $422,000 -- and that was up almost 19% from the year before. Chasing 'millions'? Well, sorta.
$412,000 in 1991 would be equivalent to $710,000 in money today. And that's only taking into account 1 year.
He made more money in his career than most that post here will ever realize. And he admitted that he knew the consequences and would do it again in a heartbeat.
It's sad, but there's no reason to pity him or any of the players that do the same thing.
Absolutely. These guys know exactly what they are getting into. The risks of the future are rewarded with fame and fortune. Nobody passes it up and I wouldn't either.
I'm really invested in this conversation but first I have to finish my guvment cheese sandwich and hobo stew.
I have no idea what a player may/may not be able to do when it comes to 'insuring' themselves against post-career maladies, but I think it's incumbent upon themselves to protect their family.
I also have no clue how worker's comp applies to a 'monopoly' like the NFL, but if teams and/or players are required by their respective states to pay into their WC pool, the players would certainly be entitled to claim it.
Some funding by the NFL is in order, IMHO, because they use a salary cap. Players are ultimately constrained from negotiating larger contracts to guard against injury (current or post-career).
I'd hope the NFLPA would be on top of this for their members. Surely they could act as their own insurer, or negotiate group rates at the least. If they're not, shame on the players.
I also have no clue how worker's comp applies to a 'monopoly' like the NFL, but if teams and/or players are required by their respective states to pay into their WC pool, the players would certainly be entitled to claim it.
Some funding by the NFL is in order, IMHO, because they use a salary cap. Players are ultimately constrained from negotiating larger contracts to guard against injury (current or post-career).
I'd hope the NFLPA would be on top of this for their members. Surely they could act as their own insurer, or negotiate group rates at the least. If they're not, shame on the players.
The NFLFU is waiting for the affordable care act to kick in. They want to analyze the program before they make new policy adjustments for there former players and office executives.quote:Originally posted by ChilliJon:
Maybe I'm rong, but I think the NFLFU has an issue with the going rates of health care to hand out free health care passes to former players. There's the cost of what it should cost to care for them vs. the cost they're actually going to end up having to pay.
Which I guess is a whole other can of worms.
quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:quote:Originally posted by Jaymo:quote:Originally posted by Fountainfox:
In 1991, near the summit of Majik's career, the average NFL salary had risen to about $422,000 -- and that was up almost 19% from the year before. Chasing 'millions'? Well, sorta.
$412,000 in 1991 would be equivalent to $710,000 in money today. And that's only taking into account 1 year.
He made more money in his career than most that post here will ever realize. And he admitted that he knew the consequences and would do it again in a heartbeat.
It's sad, but there's no reason to pity him or any of the players that do the same thing.
Absolutely. These guys know exactly what they are getting into. The risks of the future are rewarded with fame and fortune. Nobody passes it up and I wouldn't either.
Do they? and more importantly, did they? Or am I the only 22-28 year old male that was 10 feet tall and bullet proof who was a hell of a lot more worried about the head that isn't on my shoulders? There's a reason the front lines of military's world wide are largely made up of young men like this. Nobody has a bigger sense of invincibility than this age group. You aren't looking to the future. You are looking to get paid, you are looking for adventure, and you are looking to get laid. Not necessarily in that order. You sure as hell are not worried about how the affects of your actions than would affect your health in your 40's and 50's. And just like the military, you can bet your ass the NFL does and did everything they could to help promote that sense of invincibility, and worse, may have covered up and/or ignored the toll these head injuries were having.
Is it to much to ask a guy who plays a game for a living, and makes more money than a great percentage of Americans will ever make, to PAY FOR HIS OWN health insurance? You know, like most other Americans do?
And I think it's saying the NFL should pay their health insurance for the rest of their lives just isn't realistic.
If you owned your own business and a guy worked for you for one year, would you pay his insurance for life? I wouldn't. Where's the cutoff? One year? Five years? Ten years?
And I think it's saying the NFL should pay their health insurance for the rest of their lives just isn't realistic.
If you owned your own business and a guy worked for you for one year, would you pay his insurance for life? I wouldn't. Where's the cutoff? One year? Five years? Ten years?
quote:Originally posted by atticus:
I didn't say that. You said that. Did I say that? I didn't say that. I think that's so funny that you think I said that. I didn't say that.
quote:Originally posted by Jaymo:
Is it to much to ask a guy who plays a game for a living, and makes more money than a great percentage of Americans will ever make, to PAY FOR HIS OWN health insurance? You know, like most other Americans do?
And I think it's saying the NFL should pay their health insurance for the rest of their lives just isn't realistic.
If you owned your own business and a guy worked for you for one year, would you pay his insurance for life? I wouldn't. Where's the cutoff? One year? Five years? Ten years?
Is it to much to ask of the NFL and owners who make Billions of dollars off of players (of whom the vast majority make significantly less than what you seem to think) to share in the burden of paying for the consequences of profiting from risks these young men put themselves through. Everybody is so quick to say the players knew the risks and they chose to take the money. Guess what, the owners know the risks as well. Maybe even hid evidence of it from the players, and choose to profit from it as well while making a heck of a lot more than any player is going to. And no, the owners and NFL should not be solely responsible. The NFLPA needs to step up as well to share the costs.
Who knew highly paid athletes were victims? God bless America!
How much does he NFLPA "step up" now?
The idea of taking better care of injured old players seems easy enough to get behind, but there has to be a point where the players themselves start buying into that idea as well.
Maybe it's time they start docking paychecks for Long Term Disability coverage?
The idea of taking better care of injured old players seems easy enough to get behind, but there has to be a point where the players themselves start buying into that idea as well.
Maybe it's time they start docking paychecks for Long Term Disability coverage?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jaymo:
Is it to much to ask a guy who plays a game for a living, and makes more money than a great percentage of Americans will ever make, to PAY FOR HIS OWN health insurance? You know, like most other Americans do?
QUOTE]
For many in the US, health insurance is supplemented by the employer. I'm not sure you are correct here.
Secondly, this is a bit different line of work than say "Would you like fries with that?".
Is it to much to ask a guy who plays a game for a living, and makes more money than a great percentage of Americans will ever make, to PAY FOR HIS OWN health insurance? You know, like most other Americans do?
QUOTE]
For many in the US, health insurance is supplemented by the employer. I'm not sure you are correct here.
Secondly, this is a bit different line of work than say "Would you like fries with that?".
One thing to take into account is that a guy may even want to pay for his own health care but not be able to get it. Many health insurance companies wouldn't touch an ex-pro athlete because they know the costs, now or in the future, are going to be enormous. That's supposed to change with health care reform, but as it stands now, an insurance company can decline you. That's one thing former players have mentioned, that it's difficult to find insurance.
Every business owner profits off of his employees. That's pretty much the point of running a business. Profit. Right?
But that's what I'm saying....Where's the cutoff? How much do you have to profit before the responsibility falls on the owner?
Majik has the benefit of hindsight, and what does he say?
I don't regret it," Majkowski said. "That's the sickening part of it. Of course I'd do it all again. It was my childhood dream and I worked extremely hard to achieve that and be in the NFL. It was a privilege and a dream that only a small percentage of guys ever get to do."
Regardless of how much the lowest paid player in the NFL is making, they are making far more than the average American. And if you put Majik's scenario in front of them and ask them if taking a chance with their health is worth it, pretty much to a man they will say yes. It's what they do.
Risk vs Reward
They know going in what the risks are. Majik could see the players before him, and those before them, and so on and so on....It shouldn't be a shock to him or any player that they end up like they do.
Should they get help? Sure. Is it owed to them? I don't think so. Like most of us, they chose their path.
But that's what I'm saying....Where's the cutoff? How much do you have to profit before the responsibility falls on the owner?
Majik has the benefit of hindsight, and what does he say?
I don't regret it," Majkowski said. "That's the sickening part of it. Of course I'd do it all again. It was my childhood dream and I worked extremely hard to achieve that and be in the NFL. It was a privilege and a dream that only a small percentage of guys ever get to do."
Regardless of how much the lowest paid player in the NFL is making, they are making far more than the average American. And if you put Majik's scenario in front of them and ask them if taking a chance with their health is worth it, pretty much to a man they will say yes. It's what they do.
Risk vs Reward
They know going in what the risks are. Majik could see the players before him, and those before them, and so on and so on....It shouldn't be a shock to him or any player that they end up like they do.
Should they get help? Sure. Is it owed to them? I don't think so. Like most of us, they chose their path.
I think NFL players can pay for additional health insurance if they choose to.
quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:
Who knew highly paid athletes were victims? God bless America!
Guess I am a victim too. 4 years in the military and then started as a popo as a 20 something year old. Who knew i was not smart enough to consider long term consequences.
Guess I did not seriously consider the long term effects of ****ty hours...****ty people and ****ty pay.
I feel magic because i would do it all again.
It is a ****ing choice
quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:
Who knew highly paid athletes were victims? God bless America!
Who the **** called them victims? Great answer though. Wish I was naive enough to believe the NFL and owners shouldn't share in the responsibility of making Billions off of others risking serious life altering injuries. God bless America!
quote:Originally posted by MN SnowBong:
How much does he NFLPA "step up" now?
The idea of taking better care of injured old players seems easy enough to get behind, but there has to be a point where the players themselves start buying into that idea as well.
Maybe it's time they start docking paychecks for Long Term Disability coverage?
I do believe the older players were suing(?)/lobbying the NFLPA for some kind of coverage during the last lockout. Ditka was pretty vocal in it. A little info here http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3338710
quote:Originally posted by Iowacheese:
Guess I am a victim too.
It is a ****ing choice
Good for you. However your 5 years a VA benefits are up. Never use them from here on out. You are not a victim.
Just a underlying symptom of the larger disease in the arena (pun intended) of bread and circuses.
I'm more concerned with the overall level of education declining in Minnesota because they have to pay for a stadium. Just what this country needs, more ignorant yokels. We all know the owners NEVER benefit or "make profit" off the back of the public.
Millionaires being exploited by Billionaires. It's a crying shame. HEY EVERYBODY! Don't forget to vote for slashing benefits to maimed soldiers, making sure teachers are villified yet still go to work buying your kids the supplies they need out of their own pockets.
Stay stupid Murica.
I'm more concerned with the overall level of education declining in Minnesota because they have to pay for a stadium. Just what this country needs, more ignorant yokels. We all know the owners NEVER benefit or "make profit" off the back of the public.
Millionaires being exploited by Billionaires. It's a crying shame. HEY EVERYBODY! Don't forget to vote for slashing benefits to maimed soldiers, making sure teachers are villified yet still go to work buying your kids the supplies they need out of their own pockets.
Stay stupid Murica.
quote:Originally posted by KonKrete:quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:
Who knew highly paid athletes were victims? God bless America!
Who the **** called them victims? Great answer though. Wish I was naive enough to believe the NFL and owners shouldn't share in the responsibility of making Billions off of others risking serious life altering injuries. God bless America!
You are a victim of dumdum syndrome. Playing football is a choice... a well-informed and highly paid choice. They've been doing it their whole lives clinging to a shred of hope that one day, maybe... just maybe, they'd get a chance to play pro ball.
Are you telling the rest of us with a straight face that you'd turn down the chance to play in the NFL?
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Millionaires being exploited by Billionaires. It's a crying shame. HEY EVERYBODY! Don't forget to vote for slashing benefits to maimed soldiers, making sure teachers are villified yet still go to work buying your kids the supplies they need out of their own pockets.
Stay stupid Murica.
One fight at a time Henry. But in the same vein. Those teachers, soldiers, and even our local law enforcement. They need to quit their whining about current compensation, rising health care coverage and costs, and deductions to future benefits such as retirement pensions and social security from injuries they got serving/working. They are not victims, they knew the risks going in and should forfeit any possibility of reexamining those choices. They made them, they were compensated, move on. Or does that only apply to millionaire athletes?
No one explained to him when he was in that 22-28 range
that spoons and forks were bad....he coulda been something if they had
that spoons and forks were bad....he coulda been something if they had
Several places I looked cited the NFL's minimum salary as $375,000. Pretty sure I could put some of my own money aside if I was drawing that kind of coin.
I get the whole "salaries aren't guaranteed" thing, but I'm having a tough time seeing a guy who makes $375k or more a year as someone who needs his hand held and the world explained to him like a child.
I get the whole "salaries aren't guaranteed" thing, but I'm having a tough time seeing a guy who makes $375k or more a year as someone who needs his hand held and the world explained to him like a child.
Playing Devil's advocate because I personally think the whole thing is ****ing stupid but maybe the free ride to major university should have been used for, I don't know, getting an education?
The context of the whole argument is lost in the absolute sea of money that's involved but there are failings of a system that takes boys to turn them into gladiators for big coin starting in high school. They are a product.
How about scholarships for people who actually study? Why is it always the Olinemen that actually use their education? Can anyone answer that? Big, fat, smart slobs.
The context of the whole argument is lost in the absolute sea of money that's involved but there are failings of a system that takes boys to turn them into gladiators for big coin starting in high school. They are a product.
How about scholarships for people who actually study? Why is it always the Olinemen that actually use their education? Can anyone answer that? Big, fat, smart slobs.
BTW, this whole conversation is one big argument for single payer health care.
Nobody should be responsible for their own choices. It's not fair, hurts feelings, and requires judgment.
So let's all just party and make someone else pay for the booze. After all, money, fairy dust, and booze all grow on trees.
(Somewhere out there must be a government tree where I can pluck off a free car. Probably next the the free cell phone tree.)
So let's all just party and make someone else pay for the booze. After all, money, fairy dust, and booze all grow on trees.
(Somewhere out there must be a government tree where I can pluck off a free car. Probably next the the free cell phone tree.)
Exhibit A: This is what your tax dollars will buy you in exchange for a stadium.
I anxiously await the pre-programmed Faux bits to come.
I anxiously await the pre-programmed Faux bits to come.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
BTW, this whole conversation is one big argument for single payer health care.
That would be fine if the single payer had a brain in their fatuous head. But we're talking about the guvmint here. Fubar
Exhibit B: Critical thinking and analysis lacking.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Exhibit B: Critical analysis lacking.
Exhibit c: Nothing intelligent to add.
quote:Originally posted by LarseeBear:quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Exhibit B: Critical analysis lacking.
Exhibit c: Nothing intelligent to add.
Exhibit C: Inability to understand complex words and concepts.
quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:quote:Originally posted by KonKrete:quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:
Who knew highly paid athletes were victims? God bless America!
Who the **** called them victims? Great answer though. Wish I was naive enough to believe the NFL and owners shouldn't share in the responsibility of making Billions off of others risking serious life altering injuries. God bless America!
You are a victim of dumdum syndrome. Playing football is a choice... a well-informed and highly paid choice. They've been doing it their whole lives clinging to a shred of hope that one day, maybe... just maybe, they'd get a chance to play pro ball.
Are you telling the rest of us with a straight face that you'd turn down the chance to play in the NFL?
Dumdum syndrome-probably. Blessed I guess that i'm dumb enough not to know how blissfully dumb I am.
See, it's that "highly paid" thing that keeps coming up. Would it be better/different if they weren't paid so much money? Do the coal miners in Appalachia have more of a right to some type of coverage/monetary compensation for the lasting affects of working all those years under ground when they knew the risks of black lung, or screw them, they had a choice? Heaven forbid (seriously), IowaCheese is shot or maimed on the job. It's definitely a risk he knows is there. He's law enforcement. Goes without saying he's not "highly-paid". Does he have a right to some kind of future benefits/compensation for those injuries or did he know the risks so screw him.
And yet you say it: "they've been doing it there whole lives clinging to that shred of hope for a chance to play pro ball". Do you really think these young men see the future risk, or do they see the immediate reward?
At 22, hell yeah i'm playing football! At 41 with a wife and 5 kids, honestly, No. Baseball, hell yeah! Different age, different mindset, different responsibilities. At 22 and single, you find the nastiest horse out there, I will break it and ride it. At 41 with a family, I pay a 20 year old to break the nasty ones. Life and perspectives change.
On a side note, can we stop with the name calling? I got snippy over the "victims" remark. I shouldn't have, I apologize. I have a opinion that the NFL, owners, NFLPA, AND players should ALL bear the burden of the long term affects ALL parties profited from. If that makes me a dumdum in your book...you've got some pretty high standards.
quote:Guess I did not seriously consider the long term effects of ****ty hours...****ty people and ****ty pay.
In the long term, civil service pensions are more likely to bankrupt the rest of us.
Yes, not the trillions of dollars given to Wall Street that the banks were supposed to make accessible to the market to stimulate the economy, which sits there in the Cayman Islands. Isn't this what we call "trickle down"?
Don't forget those wars and then not paying for the soldiers who come back destroyed!
As much as I like Majik, it's all pretty pointless in the scheme of things.
Don't forget those wars and then not paying for the soldiers who come back destroyed!
As much as I like Majik, it's all pretty pointless in the scheme of things.