That wouldn't be the brilliant guvmint pulling those boners. Say it ain't so, Joe.
quote:On a side note, can we stop with the name calling? I got snippy over the "victims" remark. I shouldn't have, I apologize.
Yes. I appreciate the apology and send one back your way.
I have a cousin that is being highly recruited to play college football. He's a junior in HS right now and has multiple offers to play offensive line at highly rated Division 1 schools. He has given the Badgers a verbal commitment. While I've never asked him directly, I'm pretty sure he has dreams of playing in the NFL. Mind you, this is no dumdum of a kid. He's a very smart, well-grounded individual that has been raised properly. He knows the risks associated with the game and yet, it's still a goal.
I'm not saying the NFL doesn't know the risks associated with the game... but we're talking about grown men with college educations making a conscious decision to play professional football. They know what they are getting into. They know the atmosphere. They know the risks. Yet, they still do it... across the board. I don't blame them... Hell, I envy them. But I certainly don't feel bad for them when the lights go out on their career.
Exhibit D: Lack of comprehension let alone any ability of practical application of ideas.
Bored.
Back to the real topic. I'm curious as to how vigorous the Rookie Symposium is? It's so easy to see all of these measures, classes and rules as nothing more than legal protection for the owners. What are the owners actually investing in player education? What are major college football programs doing to educate for the very specific future of these guys?
Bored.
Back to the real topic. I'm curious as to how vigorous the Rookie Symposium is? It's so easy to see all of these measures, classes and rules as nothing more than legal protection for the owners. What are the owners actually investing in player education? What are major college football programs doing to educate for the very specific future of these guys?
For goodness sakes.
Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't ownership historically resisted concussion findings?
How does a fabulously rich owner look at a Willie Wood or a John Mackey, as examples (people who's brains are/were fried) and willfully try to deny health coverage directly related to the work of their employees?
How would you like to work at a chemical plant, acquire cancer related to that work, and have your employer do everything he can to resist your care.
Football players come from many walks of life, among them are quite ignorant of some realities. They are also young men. What is the walk of life of your average owner? Comfortable, rich, highly educated, not very ignorant.
You look at the lives of (for example) Sterling Sharpe and Michael Irvin. Hell, it probably seemed the only way out of squalor.
I have a hard time being an owner advocate on this subject.
Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't ownership historically resisted concussion findings?
How does a fabulously rich owner look at a Willie Wood or a John Mackey, as examples (people who's brains are/were fried) and willfully try to deny health coverage directly related to the work of their employees?
How would you like to work at a chemical plant, acquire cancer related to that work, and have your employer do everything he can to resist your care.
Football players come from many walks of life, among them are quite ignorant of some realities. They are also young men. What is the walk of life of your average owner? Comfortable, rich, highly educated, not very ignorant.
You look at the lives of (for example) Sterling Sharpe and Michael Irvin. Hell, it probably seemed the only way out of squalor.
I have a hard time being an owner advocate on this subject.
quote:Originally posted by MN SnowBong:
Several places I looked cited the NFL's minimum salary as $375,000. Pretty sure I could put some of my own money aside if I was drawing that kind of coin.
Current NFL salaries. Aren't we also including players from the 50's through the 80's.
I get the whole "salaries aren't guaranteed" thing, but I'm having a tough time seeing a guy who makes $375k or more a year as someone who needs his hand held and the world explained to him like a child.
Why would the 375K make any difference? Does it make him different than a guy making 35K. And many studies- this one included http://online.wsj.com/article/...601532208760746.html have stated that a young males brain is not fully developed to understand risk and consequences until they are into there late 20's early 30's. Once again, the reason militarys and even Jihadists are a young mans game.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Yes, not the trillions of dollars given to Wall Street that the banks were supposed to make accessible to the market to stimulate the economy, which sits there in the Cayman Islands. Isn't this what we call "trickle down"?
Don't forget those wars and then not paying for the soldiers who come back destroyed!
As much as I like Majik, it's all pretty pointless in the scheme of things.
Hehe.... I like you. You make me laugh.- Gunga Ho
So the guvmint hands out trillions with no accountability.
So the guvmint has wars and don't recompense those who suffer.
Whatever happened to the libtards in the 60s who railed against the "man"? Guess they're too stupid to consider the guvmint is the hegemonic "man".
quote:libtards
Wow you ditto-heads are so clever. Oh wait, is that a stupid broad generalization too?!?!
quote:Originally posted by phaedrus:
For goodness sakes.
Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't ownership historically resisted concussion findings?
How does a fabulously rich owner look at a Willie Wood or a John Mackey, as examples (people who's brains are/were fried) and willfully try to deny health coverage directly related to the work of their employees?
How would you like to work at a chemical plant, acquire cancer related to that work, and have your employer do everything he can to resist your care.
Football players come from many walks of life, among them are quite ignorant of some realities. They are also young men. What is the walk of life of your average owner? Comfortable, rich, highly educated, not very ignorant.
You look at the lives of (for example) Sterling Sharpe and Michael Irvin. Hell, it probably seemed the only way out of squalor.
I have a hard time being an owner advocate on this subject.
While the levels of money being discussed color the conversation this is completely accurate.
quote:Originally posted by KonKrete:
Why would the 375K make any difference? Does it make him different than a guy making 35K. And many studies- this one included http://online.wsj.com/article/...601532208760746.html have stated that a young males brain is not fully developed to understand risk and consequences until they are into there late 20's early 30's. Once again, the reason militarys and even Jihadists are a young mans game.
I think there are several differences, yes.
And I also think comparing NFL players to any kind of military personnel is a path that does not further your point or your credibility on this topic.
IMO IMHO JMO JMHO
quote:Originally posted by Iowacheese:
http://www.refinedguy.com/wp-c...this-is-hypnotic.gif
Exquisite
Well I was one. Proud of it too. I helped put up the barracades on Mifflin Street in 69.
Course, I still recognize the guvmint was/is the ultimate hedgemonic "man".
(Guess my friends lost too many brain cells to connect the dots today.)
Course, I still recognize the guvmint was/is the ultimate hedgemonic "man".
(Guess my friends lost too many brain cells to connect the dots today.)
quote:Originally posted by LarseeBear:
Hehe.... I like you. You make me laugh.- Gunga Ho
So the guvmint hands out trillions with no accountability.
So the guvmint has wars and don't recompense those who suffer.
Whatever happened to the libtards in the 60s who railed against the "man"? Guess they're too stupid to consider the guvmint is the hegemonic "man".
I'm pretty sure Minnesota would have to become a post-apocalyptic Thunder Dome to foster this kind of stupid.
quote:Originally posted by LarseeBear:
Well I was one. Proud of it too. I helped put up the barracades on Mifflin Street in 69.
Course, I still recognize the guvmint was/is the ultimate hedgemonic "man".
(Guess my friends lost too many brain cells to connect the dots today.)
So you quit. More likely you were just a stupid kid showing up to be included in all the grooviness. Doing what you're told. What's new?
Sorry. I don't toady for the same guvmint in your own examples that you toady to handle single payer health.
quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:quote:On a side note, can we stop with the name calling? I got snippy over the "victims" remark. I shouldn't have, I apologize.
Yes. I appreciate the apology and send one back your way.
I have a cousin that is being highly recruited to play college football. He's a junior in HS right now and has multiple offers to play offensive line at highly rated Division 1 schools. He has given the Badgers a verbal commitment.
Outstanding!
At least he's chosen the right school! Great education, great football program, and THE best basketball program out there!
While I've never asked him directly, I'm pretty sure he has dreams of playing in the NFL. Mind you, this is no dumdum of a kid. He's a very smart, well-grounded individual that has been raised properly. He knows the risks associated with the game and yet, it's still a goal.
Does he really? Not saying this to be a smartass. Don't know him, and certainly agree that you have a heck of a lot better judgement on his perspective than I do. But, c'mon. He's 16/17 years old. Does he really know the risks, and more importantly, the consequences he could be facing. Or do you think that may be more than just a little overshadowed by the chances of the money, glory and girls? I find it hard to believe a 17 year old is able to realistically weigh the risk reward factor of all that against the consequences of possible injuries/dementia on him and his future family that doesn't even exist yet.
quote:Originally posted by LarseeBear:
Sorry. I don't toady for the same guvmint in your own examples that you toady to handle single payer health.
So you quit. You still have the right to assemble, to vote even though with apathy it diminishes faster and faster.
All you need to do is read a history book to see how power works. There is no pollyanna idealism on my part but I'm sure not rolling over like you.
I grew up and continued my perspective of corrupt felliniesque guvmint. Starve the beast.
I never changed my distrust in the "man". My contemporaries did.
I never changed my distrust in the "man". My contemporaries did.
quote:Originally posted by MN SnowBong:quote:Originally posted by KonKrete:
Why would the 375K make any difference? Does it make him different than a guy making 35K. And many studies- this one included http://online.wsj.com/article/...601532208760746.html have stated that a young males brain is not fully developed to understand risk and consequences until they are into there late 20's early 30's. Once again, the reason militarys and even Jihadists are a young mans game.
I think there are several differences, yes.
And I also think comparing NFL players to any kind of military personnel is a path that does not further your point or your credibility on this topic.
IMO IMHO JMO JMHO
Please don't think I am comparing NFL to military in any way other than relationship to age and brain development. And i do have some insight having served in the Marines from 89-94.
I still fail to see why a NFL player who makes 375K and sustains long term injuries on his job should vacate any rights to future compensation or coverage form his than employer, while a coal miner, factory worker, sheriff shouldn't.
quote:Originally posted by MN SnowBong:
Several places I looked cited the NFL's minimum salary as $375,000. Pretty sure I could put some of my own money aside if I was drawing that kind of coin.
...
The reality is: $375,000 was still $125,000 short of covering the knee problem I had less than two years ago. Now I'm looking at at least one more surgery on the same knee. Thank goodness I have good coverage, but I would be eff'd if I lost my job and insurance coverage and had to try to find an insurance provider on my own.
quote:I'm curious as to how vigorous the Rookie Symposium is? It's so easy to see all of these measures, classes and rules as nothing more than legal protection for the owners.
This reminds me of the spots the NFL ran this past season with Roger Goodell for "heads-up football". I know at least one poster here suggested it was self-serving for the commissioner's office to be running such spots. But what would the response be if Goodell didn't seem to be doing anything about concussions? It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.
And that goes back to my original comment about it not being fair that the NFL has the big pile of money. Some people are going to see that big pile of money and argue that whatever that whatever the NFL does it's wrong and those evil rich guys with the big pile of money are screwing over the players.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Exhibit D: Lack of comprehension let alone any ability of practical application of ideas.
Bored.
Back to the real topic. I'm curious as to how vigorous the Rookie Symposium is? It's so easy to see all of these measures, classes and rules as nothing more than legal protection for the owners. What are the owners actually investing in player education? What are major college football programs doing to educate for the very specific future of these guys?
Good questions. I have a day off with another blizzard (it's a beautiful winter we are having this spring) with nothing better to do. I may try to find some more info on that later. But more importantly, American Dad is on TBS. BE back in a hour.
quote:Originally posted by Iowacheese:
http://www.refinedguy.com/wp-c...this-is-hypnotic.gif
I could stare at that gif all day.
Holy smokes, I've been staring at it for 45 minutes.
Aside from the ridiculousness of the fact the US is the only real first-world country without a single-payer system and our life expectency and quality of life have fallen behind, look at who negotiates the contracts.
The YDFoC crop is who is being negotiated on the behalf of. They've been bred to believe it's all about them right here, right now, just like their predecessors. The owners are only happy to continually foster that idea. The easiest concession to get the players to make is for something that 'doesn't affect them'. Players become a disposable commodity, but of course the YDFoC corps don't believe it affects them just like every other young guy on the planet. It'd a bit chicken/egg but it's also ridiculous.
The YDFoC crop is who is being negotiated on the behalf of. They've been bred to believe it's all about them right here, right now, just like their predecessors. The owners are only happy to continually foster that idea. The easiest concession to get the players to make is for something that 'doesn't affect them'. Players become a disposable commodity, but of course the YDFoC corps don't believe it affects them just like every other young guy on the planet. It'd a bit chicken/egg but it's also ridiculous.
quote:Originally posted by Fedya:
This reminds me of the spots the NFL ran this past season with Roger Goodell for "heads-up football". I know at least one poster here suggested it was self-serving for the commissioner's office to be running such spots. But what would the response be if Goodell didn't seem to be doing anything about concussions? It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.
And that goes back to my original comment about it not being fair that the NFL has the big pile of money. Some people are going to see that big pile of money and argue that whatever that whatever the NFL does it's wrong and those evil rich guys with the big pile of money are screwing over the players.
Again Billionaires vs. Millionaires is really a hard argument to give a crap about yet let's not be naive about the very nature of Anglo Capitalism.
Much better to have unaccountable dogma-driven sanctimonious demagogic apparatchiks running everything.
You have a little spittle on your chin there.
We'd be energy independent if we could harvest all the spittle without Federal regulations.
I'm a free market guy.
I'm a free market guy.
We haven't had free markets since God knows when.
Hey, let's have 16 laws, 18 subcommittees, and 29 commissars dictating every possible thought we can conceive.
(Where's my Big Gulp?)
(Where's my Big Gulp?)
That I haven't changed my paradigm of big anything distrust and disgust equates to hankworld quitting?
Quit walking lockstep and you too might have an epiphany.
Quit walking lockstep and you too might have an epiphany.
What's with all the bickering? If you can't get any now, you don't deserve it. The unholy alliance of Govco and Big Business is in a free-for-all.
What's worse?
Fracking:
or, fractioning:
Anyway, don't really care about any of that. But I will be upset if the Vikings leave Minnesota.
That would be bad.
What's worse?
Fracking:
or, fractioning:
Anyway, don't really care about any of that. But I will be upset if the Vikings leave Minnesota.
That would be bad.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Playing Devil's advocate because I personally think the whole thing is ****ing stupid but maybe the free ride to major university should have been used for, I don't know, getting an education?
The context of the whole argument is lost in the absolute sea of money that's involved but there are failings of a system that takes boys to turn them into gladiators for big coin starting in high school. They are a product.
How about scholarships for people who actually study? Why is it always the Olinemen that actually use their education? Can anyone answer that? Big, fat, smart slobs.
I hate to derail this thread any more than it already has been, but these comments are just as appropriate in the Auburn/ Cam Newton thread.
I've often wondered what athletes do for the 3-4 years (or more) in college. In too many cases, it sure isn't learning.
We could also cross-reference comments in that thread regarding "age of consent" (paraphrased) to some in this thread as well.
One other caveat about player salaries is $375K is not 'bring-home pay'. That may actually be 50%-60% of their salary. Comments about players taking responsibility to protect themselves post-career are still valid.
quote:Originally posted by Timmy!:
I've often wondered what athletes do for the 3-4 years (or more) in college. In too many cases, it sure isn't learning.
I know what they do. Make money for the disgusting entity known as the NCAA.
And it starts a lot ****ing earlier than college.
(I saw that, bubbleboy789)
quote:Originally posted by LarseeBear:
That I haven't changed my paradigm of big anything distrust and disgust equates to hankworld quitting?
Quit walking lockstep and you too might have an epiphany.
Admit it. It was a party, the party ended and now you're just some emptyheaded idiot who was told what to think and had to turn to Faux news to fill the void when the rest of the party boys and girls became republicans.
There there, ideas and the evolution of ideas are hard. I would actually put ideas to debate with you but it's obvious you're just a burned out slowcoach who can't think beyond the next soundbyte.
You're a coward. It's alright. Own it. Say "I am a apathetic coward" and mean it. You have plenty of company.
Admit it. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
100 arrests and 70 injured was a party??
100 arrests and 70 injured was a party??