Rodgers needs to look at himself in the mirror. I really am getting sick of watching him scrambling around and then releasing the ball out of bounds because he doesn't think anyone is open. I think his not throwing interceptions pride is prohibiting him from taking any chances and making any plays. It seems weird criticizing him, but it must be done because he is not playing well.
+ ar still standing
+ special teams (go figure)
+ required face slap to wake them up?
- ar - missed a lot out there
- wr's -no separation
- ol - no protection...etc, etc, etc...
- defense- front 4=no pressure, it all comes from this, every time I saw a play, they are getting pushed back, 76, 90 they better step it up to get a payday here...I don't buy all this 'anchor' this 'anchor' that, I see what I see, watch the tape.
- lb=at least I didn't have to watch hawk/jones flailing around, but 51 got burned a lot, peppers needs more breaks to be more effective, I don't know, 53/96 just seem like guys...
- cb - 33 and 29 burned, no torched all night, time for a change here, peyton was picking them apart, field day, sick of watching average offenses made to look like dynasty tecmo bowl offenses...
- 52 going out with a boo-boo, this guy...sometimes, I don't know about this guy...he frustrates me, sometimes you just have to wonder if he's really into the game or if he's just playing not to get hurt.
- coaching, offense, defense - horrifying.
We have not dedicated enough time on this message board around how much of a puss Clay Matthews is.
-or-
Rodgers needs to throw some more interceptions to be effective.
-or-
Ted needs to pick up better offensive weapons off the waiver wire.
-or-
Lacy is fat
-or-
Dick Rod is slow
-or-
Rodgers only throws to receivers he plays patty-cake with.
The only obvious thing here is a Capers sucks, the rest is just pissing and moaning.
Originally Posted by Hungry5:
MichiganPacker, in the last 10 minutes or so you posted that the problem with the passing game was/is:
a - players (James Jones is a good guy to have if he's your 4th receiver.)
b - scheme (The most frustrating part was that there wasn't much that was new schematically after a bye week.)
c - players (Yes, but we do need at least one guy that can stretch a defense deep.)
Yes. They need better players if their game plan is predicated on having them win one on one matchups. If that wasn't working, they needed to try to change the scheme to try to get them open. Maybe they did and it would be obvious from the all-22 film. Right now, the scheme doesn't fit the players they have. Maybe no scheme will work, but we'll see how MM adjusts this coming week.
This is a good week for all of the trollers and haters to come out. I'm loving it.
The Packers are going to shut em all up next week...when it really matters against Carolina.
Mark my words.
Now for this POS...
He's named "Wade" for chrissakes....son of a Bum to boot.
Wade PhillipsChicken Parm tastes so good-I like it especially with Cheese
Originally Posted by cuqui:
A nuts and bolts take on the offense's problems by Andy Benoit at the MMQB. He diagnoses the issues well. In the remainder of the article he makes suggestions, using what the Patriots have been doing as one option.
... As NBCâs Cris Collinsworth shrewdly pointed out late in the game, Aaron Rodgers did not throw once to the primary read in his progression. His second and third reads were often covered, as well. As the game unfolded, the Broncosâ noisy pass rush started getting home, turning the hits itâd been laying on Rodgers into sacks. If not for a handful of Broncos penalties, this would have been a drubbing. It probably was anyways; Green Bayâs passing game netted only 50 yards. And it didnât even look that efficient.
The reflexive reaction is: Hey, the Packersâ offense wasnât itself Sunday night. The problem: Yes, it was. The Packersâ passing attack has been incongruous throughout this season. Thatâs why I hoped to talk to the receivers a few weeks ago. Since then, the offense has only been wobblier, culminating in Sunday nightâs face-plant.
In Weeks 1-6, Green Bayâs struggles were obfuscated by Rodgersâ remarkable playmaking prowess. He extends plays better than anyone. But plays get extended only when they donât work in the first place. And as we were reminded Sunday, raw quarterback playmaking canât be enough against a top-shelf defense. Even before the loss, McCarthy probably would have privately admitted that he and his staff were not comfortable with how its offense has been performing.
So what, exactly, is the issue? And more importantly, how can it be fixed?
The Packersâ offense is spread-based and full of isolation routes. Youâll notice that in most of its formations, the outside receivers are lined up in whatâs called a âplus split,â meaning outside the field numbers. The slot receiver (usually Randall Cobb) is almost always several yards detached from the end of the offensive line. Clearly, Rodgers prefers to have his targets spaced out so that he can progression-read across the field.
Thus, Receiver A runs his route, Receiver B runs his route, Receiver C runs his, etc. Little to nothing about the routes overlap or intersect. Theyâre all independent of one another. Itâs up to Rodgers to drop-back, identify the defense, analyze the action and decipher which of these individual routes is best to target. This approach is fineâĶ as long as your receivers win one-on-one.
This year, Green Bayâs receivers have not won. Itâs a weaker group. Jordy Nelson tore his ACL in the preseason. Davante Adams returned to action Sunday night after missing the previous three games with a sprained ankle. Third-round rookie Ty Montgomery did not initially earn his coachesâ trust, which is why in early September James Jones was brought in off the street and immediately inserted into the starting lineup. And Rodgers, for all his greatness, has a tendency to leave some throws on the field, leaving guys open within the timing of the design in order to extend the play in hopes of a bigger payoff later in the down. Typically, this has more pluses than minuses. But that canât be the case when his pass protection doesnât hold up, which was the issue Sunday night. And, given the limitations of Green Bayâs offensive tackles (David Bakhtiari struggles against bull rushers, Bryan Bulaga has very little twitch), could be an issue against other viable pass rushes moving forward.
So Green Bayâs problem is defeating man coverage. The answer for how to fix this is the same as for all the other teams enduring poor receiver play: more âman-beaterâ play designs. If guys arenât getting open physically, help them get open tactically ....
This is very good summary
oldschool:
This is a good week for all of the trollers and haters to come out. I'm loving it.
You don't see a pattern?
I read before the game the Packers were 22nd in passing yards. 22nd?
As to the defense, look at the Charger game - wow.
There are legitimate concerns and expressing them is not trolling and hating. That's just plain stupid.
Originally Posted by FLPACKER:
I know that seems logical, but then look at the Patriots, do they have any WRs that are deep threats?
New England uses trips, stacks, crosses (picks), and screens/rubs to get non-descript receivers open. If all else fails, they have Gronk as an outlet.
Green Bay lines up a bunch of one-on ones and challenges opposing d-backs. The problem is Denver has three really good cover corners and Green Bay doesnât have the horses right now.
Originally Posted by phaedrus:
oldschool:
This is a good week for all of the trollers and haters to come out. I'm loving it.
You don't see a pattern?
I read before the game the Packers were 22nd in passing yards. 22nd?
As to the defense, look at the Charger game - wow.
There are legitimate concerns and expressing them is not trolling and hating. That's just plain stupid.
And I never said it was....I was referring to the POS Wade Phillips tweet.
Positives:
Pat Bowlin, who I have never cared for, is from Prairie du chien and gives money to the homeless...who knew. His dementia is proof positive to live as well as you can today and big money isn't all it's cracked up to be.
John Elway looks fat and uncomfortable.
This is a road game that you are going to lose, the fact that is was a spanking will lead to improvements.
Special teams including Masthay remain very good-----the young corners are going to be very good.
Mathews really might be the MVP of the league
Negatives
What an ass kicking.....especially on both sides of the line
Very surprised at the lack of adjustments.......but, definitely hard to adjust to that kind of pressure.
Originally Posted by Herschel:
Originally Posted by FLPACKER:
I know that seems logical, but then look at the Patriots, do they have any WRs that are deep threats?
New England uses trips, stacks, crosses (picks), and screens/rubs to get non-descript receivers open. If all else fails, they have Gronk as an outlet.
Green Bay lines up a bunch of one-on ones and challenges opposing d-backs. The problem is Denver has three really good cover corners and Green Bay doesnât have the horses right now.
Exactly! I'd be very disappointed if we did not start to employ more "man beaters" in our gameplan.
Everybody is fast enough to keep up.
WR separation is mots often created by guile. Not everybody has it. Raw speed fails over and over, and people just never stop believing in raw speed. It has to be the biggest tease in the draft.
Originally Posted by oldschool:
Chicken Parm tastes so good-I like it especially with Cheese
What's that, Wade? I couldn't hear you over the sound of another failed head coaching stint.
Remember that pick play we saw with richard rodgers and Ty Montgomery, where Monty got an easy TD up the middle of the field.
Have we seen it since? Why don't we run plays like that?
Balsy tweet by wade...ok wade hope to see you later in the year bud.
Analysis is getting stronger, I like it.
Why don't we run more plays that result in touchdowns?
I hope this is the hard question McGinn asks this week.
Look, every team is running stacked WR formations, plays like that, except us.
Mock the analysis, but it's a legit question.
Cobb in the backfield worked last night. Abandon it. Why?
Originally Posted by Troy:
Rodgers needs to look at himself in the mirror. I really am getting sick of watching him scrambling around and then releasing the ball out of bounds because he doesn't think anyone is open. I think his not throwing interceptions pride is prohibiting him from taking any chances and making any plays. It seems weird criticizing him, but it must be done because he is not playing well.
I had sort of hoped that at this point of Rodgers career that he was beyond ever playing as poorly as he did last night, but obviously even as great as he is, he is human and has flaws that a great defense can exploit. This year more than just about any that I can remember, we're seeing Rodgers try to get out of the pocket what seems to be about 1/2 the passing attempts or more.
The Broncos completely 100% took away that ability to scramble out of the pocket and combined that with extremely good coverage and made Rodgers look like he had never played QB in his life. The only good thing I can say, is that maybe, just maybe the Pack will not see another team on the schedule that can accomplish this as well as the Broncos did.
Carolina has a very good defense, but I don't expect them to take away Rodgers scrambling ability as well as Denver did.
I agree with the analysis that the Packers could be doing much more schematically to create separation with their receivers. Almost appears that hubris within the organization convinced them that better execution and improved health from the bye would take care of the problem.
Packers are currently ranked 27th in passing offense and that's an indication of just how deep a funk the offense is presently in. I'd be shocked if MM doesn't make some offensive tweaks after the debacle last night.
We can criticize McCarthy, Clements, and Capers all we want, but the fact is that no scheme works when you flat out lose at the LOS. Tackles and pass rushers make the 2nd most money on the team because they're the most critical positions outside of QB. Nothing functions properly when the Tackles are giving up pressure and nothing can be stopped when the pass rushers are creating pressure. Offenses are all about timing and no scheme works if the timing is off...and every scheme can work when the timing is perfect.
Originally Posted by Herschel:
Originally Posted by oldschool:
Chicken Parm tastes so good-I like it especially with Cheese
What's that, Wade? I couldn't hear you over the sound of another failed head coaching stint.
That's ok Wade (and the cheese joke isnt funny anyhow) poke the bear of the team you could possibly see again in February.
The Packers got Wade fired. And yes, he's rather bitter over it.
Originally Posted by michiganjoe:
I agree with the analysis that the Packers could be doing much more schematically to create separation with their receivers. Almost appears that hubris within the organization convinced them that better execution and improved health from the bye would take care of the problem.
Packers are currently ranked 27th in passing offense and that's an indication of just how deep a funk the offense is presently in. I'd be shocked if MM doesn't make some offensive tweaks after the debacle last night.
We should be shocked that MM did not make "offensive tweaks" during the bye-week. Was he out hunting deer with Janis?
Football is about adjustments, and while we don't have a Gronk, or anything close to a Gronk, the Pats show how to adjust to the personnel they have on offense with that QB. Over to you MM & AR.
AR's body language last night after yet another inept run. I wonder if he's looking at Clements or MM or both..
Having an elite TE would have made a huge difference last night IMO. There's no mismatch with Dick Rodgers vs. a LB or S. Having an outlet who is consistently a bad matchup for the D is what Rodgers needs in those situations.
Just spitballing here, but one reason the offense has become so predictable is MM's love affair with the no huddle offense and "tempo tempo tempo". The preferred formation is a 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB set hoping to take advantage of 12's ability to run an uptempo read and react offense, while minimizing substitutions by the defense.
Problem is right now we're stuck with receivers who can't beat man coverage and a lead footed TE who can't run or pass block worth a ****.
Why not go conventional huddle offense more often? (Especially on the road.) I for one pine for the days when MM would trot out a full house backfield to start a series then put a 5 WR set on the field then go 3 TEs, or whatever. Packers were easily the most varied and imaginative team in rolling formations. Defenses had to prep for a hell of a lot more.
Now it seems like the SOS series after series.
Now of course such formation flexibility has been hampered with the injuries to Jordy and Quarless, and the shorter term dings to Davante, Cobb, and Monty. But that doesn't mean you can't fold a slow down & diversify formations component into this offense.
Would also help with ToP provided you get first downs which keeps our impregnable defense off the field.
Packerboi - that is a great GIF you've posted. I remember thinking that's as frustrated as I've ever seen Rodgers. What I didn't see in real time is why the play failed. Richard Rodgers got pushed back 5 yards from the LOS and his guy ducked under him to make a play. Now that I can see the play again, the play is blocked adequately other than that to allow Lacy to get 3-4 yards minimum. Richard Rodgers looks like a rag doll on this one.
Originally Posted by Troy:
Rodgers needs to look at himself in the mirror. I really am getting sick of watching him scrambling around and then releasing the ball out of bounds because he doesn't think anyone is open. I think his not throwing interceptions pride is prohibiting him from taking any chances and making any plays. It seems weird criticizing him, but it must be done because he is not playing well.
It is a legit point, Troy.
I believe Aaron is giving up too soon on some of our WRs. They can make plays too. He should at least give them the opportunity by putting the ball in play, and let them make a play on it. You have "x" players at WR. Use them.
Davante Adams and Richard Rodgers need to look at themselves in the mirror too. Both are becoming more of a problem than a solution. CTFB.
Parmesan is a cheese.
Originally Posted by MEl-Ka-Bong:
Analysis is getting stronger, I like it.
Why don't we run more plays that result in touchdowns?
I hope this is the hard question McGinn asks this week.
Boo hooooo...
Analysis is that the spread offense that relies on WR's winning their individual matchup hasn't been working the past couple weeks (No separation and tackle play limits time for play to develop).
Some people are suggesting that Clements adjusts to this trend by implementing more man beater routes like rubs, slants and screens instead of continuing to bang his square peg at the defense.
Broncos blitzed 60% of the time last night because they knew their corners could stick with our WR's. What was our counter to this after it was obvious that they weren't getting open and Rodgers wasn't going to have room to extend plays? Answer, to continue to run the same ****.
We had options. We could have tried to go to the ground game out of power formations. Their strength is pass rush and cover corners then you can combat that by going two TE and run it down their throat. We have one of the best interior lines in the NFL and a bruising back. We could have gone to 3 step drop passes instead of letting Bakh get abused all night. We had options.
pboi and MichiganPacker, absolutely correct. I'd add that it looks like Eddie missed a hell of a big cutback lane to the right but the view in that clip ain't the best.
Datone had another good game.
Originally Posted by BrainDed:
We could have tried to go to the ground game out of power formations. There strength is pass rush and cover corners then you can combat that by going two TE and run it down their throat. We have one of the best interior lines in the NFL and a bruising back. We could have gone to 3 step drop passes instead of letting Bakh get abused all night. We had options.
Totally agree with this. We gave up on incredibly effective run games previously, namely Starks busting off huge runs then getting shut down by our own play caller against SD...
WTF? This is very simple Football 101 stuff. How do they not get this? We should have run all ****ing night. Power run game, with an extra OL because Dick Rod can't block.
Good find on that clip, packerboi.
Also AR right before the half, the camera catches him talking to Matthews and you can read his lips: "Why didn't we call timeout." Shaking his head, it wasn't a question.
I know it was only 1 game and 1 loss, but this team needs a win for chemistry right now. No idea exactly what is up, probably a combination of a lot of things, but I can't remember AR ever looking as unhappy as he did last night.
No it's not a fair point Trophies. He's not throwing interceptions or even risking interceptions because turnovers are how you lose games. It's not about his pride. It's called being smart with the football. He takes plenty of chances also, he's so accurate that he consistently puts the ball where only the receiver can make a play. He's averaged 32 attempts per game since becoming a starter, that's 32 chances he has per game to make something happen with the ball in his hands, why risk wasting those opportunities by throwing in to coverage when he can wait for a player to get open and negate the risk? It's a team game, the passing game is 100% on him. He's thrown bad passes, but his opportunities have also been limited.
Originally Posted by BrainDed:
We had options. We could have tried to go to the ground game out of power formations. Their strength is pass rush and cover corners then you can combat that by going two TE and run it down their throat. We have one of the best interior lines in the NFL and a bruising back. We could have gone to 3 step drop passes instead of letting Bakh get abused all night. We had options.
Most if not all of these were identified her on the board as the way to go last week. It really is Football 101. MM, Clements, and Rodgers are stubborn MF's. ChilliJon called it last night, if you're winning you stick with the formula. McCarthy and Aaron have said that if they don't practice it they don't run it. Clearly they stuck with the SOS.
Plenty of blame to go around. AR, EL, OL, DL, DB, LB....really outside of Crosby and Mathsay, a complete and total team failure.
That said, it's just one game. R.....
As far as running the ball goes, we have had success in the past few years vs. teams that sell out to stop our passing game & play with only 6 defenders in the box. last night Denver played their base defense & had 7 in the box because they were able to stop our passing game without having to get another defender off in coverage.
MM said it "I got my butt kicked...". I lay this egg at his feet. The team was almost completely unprepared and played flat right from the start. I think they had a BYE hangover. Then you can point to the players too. Rodgers HAS to play bigger and better. But the Broncos were fired up for Pat Bowlen and played well.