- MLF
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Remember, back in the late summer, when we thought this team was stacked with young, fast talent everywhere but safety? Good times.
this loss is 70% on Josiah Deguara
Can we talk about Gute yet? What year is this for him and how would you describe the rosters talent level?
The soft rebuild isn’t looking probable. Is he the guy you want leading the full rebuild?
Good thing is, if we had to play vs a Belickick D he wouldn't know what offensive strength to take away.
@DurangoDoug posted:Goldie is wasted, LOL. Sweet dreams.
Ah, not today…..and shut up. 
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:this loss is 70% on Josiah Deguara
The fact they used their first 4 rounds of draft choices in 2020 to take Love, Dillon, and DeGuara is what will end up getting Gutey and MLF fired. I really thought Love looked good to start the year, but once he put on tape what he could and couldn't do, the Packers struggle to move the ball consistently.
Dillon is serviceable, but you can find guys like him in the 6th round. DeGuara is the type of guy you can find on practice squads all over the league. That draft was clearly based on what MLF wanted to build his offense after Rodgers was gone and it obviously does not look good. The fact they fell short in two NFC title games after wasting their draft capital on these 3 was one of the biggest missed opportunities since the Packers became relevant again 30 years ago.
I think MLF, Gutey, and Love are tied together and they have until the end of the 2024 regular season to make this work. If they continue to struggle the rest of this year and next year, they will all be gone. Murphy's replacement will be chosen by the end of 2024 or early 2025 and he will chose the next GM and head coach if this keeps trending in this direction. Not sure what will happen with Russ Ball.
What happened to the dulcet tones of, "this is a soft rebuild year and we're in a bit of cap hell right now so we're the youngest team in the league because it's all we can currently afford. It's a building and learning year that will pay off down the road."?
I was told there would be dulcet tones!
@DH13 posted:What happened to the dulcet tones of, "this is a soft rebuild year and we're in a bit of cap hell right now so we're the youngest team in the league because it's all we can currently afford. It's a building and learning year that will pay off down the road."?
I was told there would be dulcet tones!
More like a wet fart.
@BrainDed posted:Can we talk about Gute yet? What year is this for him and how would you describe the rosters talent level?
The soft rebuild isn’t looking probable. Is he the guy you want leading the full rebuild?
At this moment, it looks like Gute has massively screwed up at minimum a couple of draft classes and you have to have doubts going forward that he’s the guy running what looks like a substantial rebuild. This team is what Gute wanted (no Rodgers) and we can all see what an awful roster #12 was covering up.
I have zero problem if we let someone other than Gute handle the rebuild going forward. He had his chance and while he had a good start taking over for the dying TT, ultimately he has failed.
@DH13 posted:What happened to the dulcet tones of, "this is a soft rebuild year and we're in a bit of cap hell right now so we're the youngest team in the league because it's all we can currently afford. It's a building and learning year that will pay off down the road."?
I was told there would be dulcet tones!
No dulcet tones. Will Franchot do?
@BrainDed posted:Can we talk about Gute yet? What year is this for him and how would you describe the rosters talent level?
The soft rebuild isn’t looking probable. Is he the guy you want leading the full rebuild?
https://packers.timesfour.com/...=lastReply#lastReply
The Gutey thread is 2 doors over.....Go nuts!
Rob Demovsky
@RobDemovsky
The Packers have scored 20 or fewer points in four straight games for the first time since 2005, when that happened six straight times on the way to 4-12.
- MLF
------ All of my preferred teams on every level from HS through college to the Pack suck right now and have for the past couple of years. They're all killing the blissful football buzz that I should be enjoying about this time of the year.
It's kind of a bad down cycle and unfortunately, I think it's going to be a while before the trend turns upward again on all levels.
Pos: Nothing
Neg: The notion that they need to bench/cut bait with Love. I'm not fond of the "Packer fans are spoiled" argument. But in this case it applies to those people calling for Love's head after six starts.
Bert spent his entire career making awful decisions like Love has made the past two games. Start to finish 1992-2007.
Finishes like today are the way Rodgers began his career as a starter. It also was the case at the end of Pittsburgh macho, and a year ago as well. Rodgers had late drives to take a lead and special teams or defense pissed it away. Rodgers also failed to preserve leads that the defense was responsible for.
It becomes more clear with each passing game that this head coach and his coordinators are in over their head. The same mistakes, or variations of the same mistakes, plague this team every week. MLF can't even dig out of his own hole, let alone put his qb in better situations. Does Love need to be better? Of course he does. But with all the ineptitude and dysfunction on this team right now, quitting on Love is about as spoiled as it gets. It's also a tried and true blueprint for creating a turnstile effect at the most important position on the field. It's the stuff of Bears fans. The kid deserves an opportunity to get better over the course of a long season.
+ if Green Bay’s being shut out in the first half by an NFL defense ranked 32nd in both yardage and points allowed, with 13 days to prepare, doesn’t illuminate how utterly inept Matt LaFleur is, nothing will.
- Good God.....situational football boys. Why take the shot on 3rd down unless you throw it to the only spot YOUR receiver can get it?? You cannot underthrow that play....EVER!
- The first half - WTAF?!?! How can they come out to play after 2 weeks off.....THIS bad??
- After having 2 weeks off WHY is everyone injured??
-+ Doubs has to catch that pass in the EZ. He's lucky it was tipped right to Reed.
+ Ravens crushing the Lions. I was sick of everyone talking about the Lions like they're a dark horse for the Super Bowl. Jared Goff is not winning this year's Super Bowl. Thank God they got destroyed today.
@lambeausouth posted:+ if Green Bay’s being shut out in the first half by an NFL defense ranked 32nd in both yardage and points allowed, with 13 days to prepare, doesn’t illuminate how utterly inept Matt LaFleur is, nothing will.
…or, how bad the talent is offense. Or, even more likely, a combination of both.
@lambeausouth posted:+ if Green Bay’s being shut out in the first half by an NFL defense ranked 32nd in both yardage and points allowed, with 13 days to prepare, doesn’t illuminate how utterly inept Matt LaFleur is, nothing will.
The Broncos are HISTORICALLY BAD this year.
The Packers are awful. They might as well tank like the Niners did to get better because finishing 7-10 or 8-9 doesn't help anything
It really doesn't look like at this point that they need to "tank". I don't think they currently have much say in it. They are that bad.
@artis posted:Pos: Nothing
Neg: The notion that they need to bench/cut bait with Love. I'm not fond of the "Packer fans are spoiled" argument. But in this case it applies to those people calling for Love's head after six starts.
Bert spent his entire career making awful decisions like Love has made the past two games. Start to finish 1992-2007.
Favre certainly made some awful on field decisions, but for every one of those, he made a number of big plays that very few guys before or since were capable of making.
We’re just not seeing enough of those “wow” plays from Love to make up for any major mistakes he makes. Love has a strong arm but not freaky level strong like Rodgers and Favre had.
Here's screen captures of where Dillon was on the final throw when Love underthrew Doubs. He never looked off his first read. I guess if he throws a good ball Doubs has a chance, but they needed a FG and Dillon gets at least to the 40. Love has plenty of time with good protection.
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@fightphoe93 posted:Favre certainly made some awful on field decisions, but for every one of those, he made a number of big plays that very few guys before or since were capable of making.
We’re just not seeing enough of those “wow” plays from Love to make up for any major mistakes he makes. Love has a strong arm but not freaky level strong like Rodgers and Favre had.
Love seems to have no feel for how to throw to a target in motion. He is very good at things like back shoulder throws and hitting guys who are sitting down in holes in zones. He doesn't seem to be able to hit anyone in stride while they are running and tends to throw to where guys are instead of where guys are going to be when the ball gets there.
Favre made some awful decisions, but it was usually because he got baiting into throwing the ball or was overconfident in his ability to force a ball to a guy that wasn't that open. He didn't make the kinds of mistakes Love has made several times the last few games. Love has only had a couple of terrible decisions/reads (the first interception against the Raiders being one), but his mistakes are not usually in making poor reads. His mistakes have been when he makes what appears to be a good read but isn't able to execute a throw to a guy that is open. I can think of several examples the last two games. These were all at critical times and they were all the same mistake - badly underthrowing or failing to lead an open guy correctly. Neither Favre nor Rodgers typically made these types of mistakes and it's the same type of problem that scouts were concerned about Love having coming out of college.
1. The underthrow to Watson to end the Raiders game on an interception
2. The underthrow to Doubs to end the Broncos game on an interception.
3. The TD throw that he failed to lead Doubs on that Doubs bailed him out on that should have been an interception.
4. The throw to Watson that was behind him that Watson got hurt on.
Pos...we get to see the packets on hard Knocks next year or maybe that is a negative.
We can plan on drafting top 5.
@DH13 posted:Your TV may have had too much to drink.
No, but a few posters here did.
@DH13 posted:It really doesn't look like at this point that they need to "tank". I don't think they currently have much say in it. They are that bad.
Agree. Might be mid-December before they pick up another W.
The Packers have scored two field goals during the first half of the last 4 games.
One was after an interception against the Lions where the offense ran three plays and gained 0 yards.
The other FG drive was mostly because of a 15 yard penalty on Maxx Crosby when Zach Tom flopped and a 26 yard scramble by Love on a broken play.
23 total drives (3 of which were kneel downs/give ups to end halves). Two FGs and one missed FG.
Watching Philly and Miami is literally like watching a different sport.
@MichiganPacker posted:Here's screen captures of where Dillon was on the final throw when Love underthrew Doubs. He never looked off his first read. I guess if he throws a good ball Doubs has a chance, but they needed a FG and Dillon gets at least to the 40. Love has plenty of time with good protection.
The bigger question is why was Dillon in the game and not Jones? Hell, Jones may have run for a TD.
@Blair Kiel posted:Watching Philly and Miami is literally like watching a different sport.
Both offenses run like swiss watches. Every player has his role and executes it and things moved beautifully. It shouldn't feel like seeing this in GB was so long ago.
@fightphoe93 posted:Favre certainly made some awful on field decisions, but for every one of those, he made a number of big plays that very few guys before or since were capable of making.
We’re just not seeing enough of those “wow” plays from Love to make up for any major mistakes he makes. Love has a strong arm but not freaky level strong like Rodgers and Favre had.
Favre also had a head coach that knew wtf he was doing. And it took reeling him in to become an all-pro. There are many examples early on in the Holmgren/Favre era where the head coach knew how to dial up high pct plays that moved the chains. Favre was also flailing all over the place well into his third year as starter, to the point where he was nearly benched.
The game has changed a lot since then, but the common thread is qbs who can execute a well designed scheme are usually the most successful. We're six weeks in and we don't have the slightest idea if a scheme even exists in MLF's head.
Love has had wow plays. Certainly not enough to pull out wins, or overcome the myriad of penalties and mistakes we see every week. But he's shown enough of that side of him to warrant the chance to grow into a rounded player. He needs to play better. Like the entire roster needs to play better. Like the entire staff needs to coach better. For all the non-wow plays he made today, they took a lead on the road in the fourth quarter. There was luck involved and decent rb play down the stretch, and he made another poor decision that bit them. If they hold onto that one point lead and get the W, we'd be singing his praises this week.
Jordan Love has played bad. I'm not an apologist. But let's not lose sight of the fact that Aaron Rodgers was 1-5 as his 1st 6 starts as Packers starting QB in 2008 . He also threw 7 INTs and probably had better more experienced offensive players around him. It takes time.
@Blair Kiel posted:Watching Philly and Miami is literally like watching a different sport.
Given how Love throws deep balls, maybe Tyreke Hill would be wasted in Green Bay.
But both teams traded for their #1 WR. The Dolphins gave up a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, and a 6th for Hill. The Eagles gave up a 1st and a 3rd for AJ Brown.
Both teams then used high draft picks on their #2 WRs. Jaylen Waddle was the 6th overall pick and Devonta Smith was the 10th overall pick.
The Packers traded their #1 WR and tried to replace him with a 2nd round pick who is trending in the looks like Tarzan/plays like Jane direction (Watson), and a bunch of mid and late round picks.
Having that level of talent and speed at WR completely changes what you can do on offense.
+ I had low expectations that we would see anything different this week on offense so it wasn't a big surprise.
+ I enjoyed seeing the D make a few stops and hold (a crummy) opponent to FGs.
- Sinking in for me that it's gonna be a long, tough year.
Of course I thought Packers were so broken last year during the 5 game losing streak that they were unfixable yet they fought back from 4-8 to 8-9 so who knows?
As bad as it's been they had opportunity to win the last 2 games and came up short. I agree we need to stick with Love and ride it out.
@ammo posted:Jordan Love has played bad. I'm not an apologist. But let's not lose sight of the fact that Aaron Rodgers was 1-5 as his 1st 6 starts as Packers starting QB in 2008 . He also threw 7 INTs and probably had better more experienced offensive players around him. It takes time.
Rodgers was 3-3 in his first 6 starts in 2008, not 1-5.
And he threw 4 Ints in those 6 games (not 7).
It is much too early to bury Love, but facts are facts and Love's performance though his first 6 games in 2023 does not come close to matching Rodgers' performance through games 1-6 in 2008.