@Blair Kiel posted:Watching Philly and Miami is literally like watching a different sport.
Add the Chiefs to that mix.
+
Some good individual performance from a handful of players, but not enough to overcome the sum of the team performance.
-
Pretty much the same ol' shit we've seen for the last handful of years.
I haven't been able to verify, but as far as I know, the starting OL were the same 5 that have been starting this year. So what exactly got 'fixed' during the bye that was going to produce different results from these same players?
Defense was no better, and was the exact same shit we've seen during Barry's tenure. Apparently, they can't overcome their piss-poor performance with "scheme", so what kind of bullshit are we going to hear now?
Not just losing to, but getting their asses kicked by one of the worst offenses in the league says all that needs to be said.
Possibly the worst of all, there's no real quick-fix available. It's obvious changes aren't going to be made, other than what injuries force.
Coaching changes are unlikely; certainly not this year, and maybe not for another 2 years. Ditto for GM or other executive changes.
For as well-respected as Green Bay (supposedly) is as a well-run, first-class organization, they sure do have a clusterfuck going on.
@SteveLuke posted:It is much too early to bury Love, but facts are facts and Love's performance though his first 6 games in 2023 does not come close to matching Rodgers' performance through games 1-6 in 2008.
Driver was in his tenth season and would run circles around any WR on the current roster.
Jennings was in his third season and would run circles around any WR on the current roster.
Jordy and Jones were in their first year and were probably better than any WR on the current roster.
Donald Lee was in his sixth season and was better than any TE on the current roster.
Ryan Grant was a formidable RB who ran for 1,200 yards.
The O-line was anchored by two 8-year vets in Clifton and Tauscher.
Personnel matters. Any comparison of Love and Rodgers in their first seasons is apples and oranges and pretty dumb.
@MichiganPacker posted:Here's screen captures of where Dillon was on the final throw when Love underthrew Doubs. He never looked off his first read. I guess if he throws a good ball Doubs has a chance, but they needed a FG and Dillon gets at least to the 40. Love has plenty of time with good protection.
No wonder Love can't see the open receivers. He needs to get his eyes checked.
I’d be fine with losing if the offense didn’t look so disjointed. Very few plays look clean. Even the good plays feel like we did good despite ourselves (see both TDS). This is the third game in a row where I’ve seen receivers end up in the exact same spot on a play. You can’t have that ever in the NFL.
That’s coaching. I don’t know what’s going on but I’m not going to blame the guys for being young. Detroit is a young team and seems to be doing just fine.
Hate to say it but Berry is out coaching MLF right now. We’ve held our opponents to 20 points or less in 5 of our 6 games. That’s enough to win every week in this league. But you can’t win when your offense only scores in the 2nd half of games. Staring games amazingly slow…also on the coaching.
@DH13 posted:It really doesn't look like at this point that they need to "tank". I don't think they currently have much say in it. They are that bad.
Don't you worry....they'll fuck it up and "figure it out" in December and finish with 6 or 7 wins. Just wait....I see this coming a mile away
Coaching stinks.
fire MLF
make bisacca interim. See how he does.
+ Wayne and Larry were getting testy.
+ I turned them off right before the missed FG.
+ Watched real football after that.
This team is bad. not just from the smell test either. if you look at it from an analytics view, especially from the ProFootbal Reference Simple Rating System, where it rates offense, defense, and overall team performance.
We are dreadful
The Offense is a -3.2, which is the worst packers offensive team since 1991, Infante's last year.
The Defense is a -3.0, worst since 2013 Packer's D.
Overall team performance (add up the two) is the worst since 1986 Forest Greg team with Randy Wright as QB. Let that sink in for a few moments.
@SteveLuke posted:Rodgers was 3-3 in his first 6 starts in 2008, not 1-5.
And he threw 4 Ints in those 6 games (not 7).
It is much too early to bury Love, but facts are facts and Love's performance though his first 6 games in 2023 does not come close to matching Rodgers' performance through games 1-6 in 2008.
My mistake. The chart I used had the last games listed first. Rodgers finished the season 1-5 with 7 INT and 2-7 in his last 9 games. Funny that he regressed as the season went on. But it is true Rodgers was surrounded by much better talent.
++++
The Badgers won this weekend
Maybe Dillon?
- - - -
Aaron Jones getting 11 touches
Run D giving up around 150 with high YPC
Injuries
Jordan Love’s regression
MLF as a head coach - too much time to explain - he’s cooked
@MaximusHess posted:This team is bad. not just from the smell test either. if you look at it from an analytics view, especially from the ProFootbal Reference Simple Rating System, where it rates offense, defense, and overall team performance.
We are dreadful
The Offense is a -3.2, which is the worst packers offensive team since 1991, Infante's last year.
The Defense is a -3.0, worst since 2013 Packer's D.
Overall team performance (add up the two) is the worst since 1986 Forest Greg team with Randy Wright as QB. Let that sink in for a few moments.
I consider that 1986 season the absolute low point as a Packers fan. The combination of lack of talent plus multiple players in big trouble with the law off the field made it a nightmare. They bottomed out so badly that they didn’t fully recover for a number of years.
I guess the only good news about this year’s team is nobody has gotten in trouble with the law…… yet.
@fightphoe93 posted:I consider that 1986 season the absolute low point as a Packers fan. The combination of lack of talent plus multiple players in big trouble with the law off the field made it a nightmare. They bottomed out so badly that they didn’t fully recover for a number of years.
I guess the only good news about this year’s team is nobody has gotten in trouble with the law…… yet.
Yeah, I remenber that team. going 4-12 and then we didnt even fire our coach, I guess because it was Gregg. But Wright was just plain BAD. You are right about the legal crap going on, but as a kid back then did not really know how bad it was at the time. I remember Mark Lee getting a bunch of INTs that year and Touchdown Tommy Kramer threw 6 TDs against us.
Fun times
Positives? It's over
Negatives
As someone else said how do you lose to the Broncos when you have two weeks to prepare? And why is everyone hurt after having a mini bye and then a real bye?
Yes the defense didn't give up 20 points again but they also gave up 145 yards rushing and some YPC they shouldn't have
This offense is bad at every level right now. What is it with the first half of games that this team struggles so much? There is flat out no excuse for getting shut out by Denver for a whole half that defense they have has been horrendous.
One big thing with this offense is that they lack any kind of explosiveness. Watson (when he isn't hurt) has only 8 catches for the entire year and Jones if he is playing is not being utilized at all or seems to be on a pitch count. Teams will let you dink and dunk on them all day long if they do not have to fear any big plays.
The coaching staff for the most part will be there next year. IMHO they won't do a full blown clean house after this year because even if they won't say it this team is rebuilding so I think they will get one more year to prove it. But, if this shit show goes in to next season and continues to struggle this badly I can definitely see a complete staff turnover.
+++ Dillon played well, overall. They used Musgrave, a lot, and he was productive, until he was injured on that helmet to helmet hit. Dontayvion Wicks threw the ball, on that trick play, better than Love did, in this game. Love that Wicks kid!
----This team is not ready to win games that they should win. Another slow start. More soft Defense. I hate watching the playcalling that says throw it 3 yards when we need 8 or 9 yards to move the chains, on 3rd down. Doubs had a rough day. The only thing he caught was that TD pass that Surtain also caught, and that Gene Steratore said should have been called an INT, because Surtain had the ball first and also had his feet set first, to establish the catch. This team cannot buy a friend. Love, passing deep, into double coverage, for an INT, was a mix of Favre and Rodgers. He fits right in, at GB. MLF is running out of cliches in his postgame pressers. He has learned to say nothing while not saying anything. The Carlson detractors were correct when they said he would cost us a game. The Lions lost. The Bears won and are behind us only due to the Bye week, we had. Watch minnesota beat SF, tonight, to put the cap on the Packers' failure to win, yesterday.
@fightphoe93 posted:I consider that 1986 season the absolute low point as a Packers fan. The combination of lack of talent plus multiple players in big trouble with the law off the field made it a nightmare. They bottomed out so badly that they didn’t fully recover for a number of years.
I guess the only good news about this year’s team is nobody has gotten in trouble with the law…… yet.
Ah yes 1986 and I agree that was a absolute low point and I am very glad I missed it. The one thing that saved me that year was that I was stationed overseas and I didn't have to endure watching them on TV. I only got the scores on Tuesdays in the Stars and Stripes.
That year my dad would tape the games for me and he would mail me the cassettes so I could listen to them. He did this for about six weeks and when I called home I asked him about more tapes and he said he didn't want to have to endure taping it and also making me listen to them so he stopped.
At least the New years Eve game vs. Vikings will be flexed to noon and maybe the Dec. 3rd game with Chiefs.
@MaximusHess posted:Yeah, I remenber that team. going 4-12 and then we didnt even fire our coach, I guess because it was Gregg. But Wright was just plain BAD. You are right about the legal crap going on, but as a kid back then did not really know how bad it was at the time. I remember Mark Lee getting a bunch of INTs that year and Touchdown Tommy Kramer threw 6 TDs against us.
Fun times
I remember getting excited about obtaining Vince Ferragamo mid-year.
Mossy Cade. Lofton and Ivery with the dancer in Milwaukee.
Kenny Stills headhunting.
Tom Coughlin was their WRs coach.
The highlight, of course, was that the top 5 pick they got (#4 overall) allowed them to draft Brent Fullwood the following spring.
@ammo posted:At least the New years Eve game vs. Vikings will be flexed to noon and maybe the Dec. 3rd game with Chiefs.
The last 4 games of the season are going to be meaningless (unless you are trying to tank), brutal-to-watch football with likely no playoff implications for either team.
Tampa Bay
at Carolina
at Minnesota
Chicago
Is it time to toss out all the other games and circle Chicago? Sweep them and move to the draft.
The last four games will be important if for nothing other than hoping to see Love start trending up going into the offseason.
OR Love trending down and starting to eyeball the QB's in the next draft if we have a shot at one in the top 5.
I usually refrain from posting on the +/- thread until the following day when I've had time to put things in perspective. I was at the game, and so I think I have a few perspectives television can't show.
First, we need to give Love a little bit of a break. He's a first-year starter and we all knew heading into this season he was going to have some rough times. Teams have film on him now. He and the coaching staff have to find ways to overcome that, as this is something all young QB's face in their first year. Also, our WR's weren't getting open very often. He missed a few reads, but who doesn't. It's easy to see in the stands.
Second, our entire offense is in disarray, and I put that on the coaching staff. The offense should have looked at least a little better after the break, but instead they looked worse. There's talent there, but that leads me to my next observation.
Third, the offensive line lacks talent outside of Jenkins, and our receivers just aren't very good. Not only that, the entire scheme lacks imagination. The offensive staff is getting exposed without AR running it. And there is absolutely NO excuse not to use Jones more. I just don't know what's going on in MLF's head, if anything, but he's been outcoached in every game this season.
Fourth, the defense has held some terrible offensive opponents to 20 or less (congrats, I guess?) including yesterday. But I still saw the same soft zone coverage and Preston Smith out covering WR's. That's just dumb on so many levels.
Finally, Gutey hasn't shown he has a keen eye for talent. He's blown a few drafts now, and that really hurts us. What blue chip players has he drafted? Jaire Alexander and Rashan Gary. Five drafts, two blue chippers, and the rest good to JAG picks. That's not a great track record. He's done a good job with acquiring free agents, but other than that...
It's too early to throw the baby out with the bath water, and I won't respect MLF or the Packers if they tank the season for a higher draft pick. I think the entire coaching staff and personnel staff should be on notice, but I doubt things change significantly until Silo Murphy leaves. Who knows how much of that he's fucked up by being an idot control freak.
+++ Whelan, Musgrave, A. Jones, AJ Dillon
--- There is plenty of blame to go around but:
O-line. No one is playing with any consistency, including Jenkins who is supposed to be the stalwart. There is no depth so the possibility of reshuffling is almost nil.
Missed tackles. Many big gains were the result of missed tackles and it was at all levels of the defense.
Coaching. I still want to give LaFleur the benefit of the doubt given what he is working with on offense (it is extremely basic), but simple stuff like waiting til halftime to tell Love to push the ball downfield is inexcusable. Playing time decisions/rotations make no sense either, especially on defense. Why are Eric Wilson and Brenton Cox Jr. getting snaps? And Barry's love of nickel is so frustrating (see Mike Wahle's X/twitter post about goal line defense in obvious run situation with nickel defense).
@Harry Manback posted:Finally, Gutey hasn't shown he has a keen eye for talent. He's blown a few drafts now, and that really hurts us. What blue chip players has he drafted? Jaire Alexander and Rashan Gary. Five drafts, two blue chippers, and the rest good to JAG picks. That's not a great track record. He's done a good job with acquiring free agents, but other than that...
Ok, Not counting this years draft (VanNess, Reed). Granted the 3rd round picks have completely sucked.
I'll just say, while everyone is ripping on Gutey, Please show me ANY of the other 31 teams that has a "keen eye for talent" and drafts all these blue chippers. I can show you 31 other teams failures.
@Harry Manback posted:It's too early to throw the baby out with the bath water, and I won't respect MLF or the Packers if they tank the season for a higher draft pick. I think the entire coaching staff and personnel staff should be on notice, but I doubt things change significantly until Silo Murphy leaves. Who knows how much of that he's fucked up by being an idot control freak.
I agree, Murphy can't GTFO fast enough for my liking.
-
Overall just an abysmal performance.
+
Year is for evaluating, and the GM and HC are not excluded.
@Boris posted:I'll just say, while everyone is ripping on Gutey, Please show me ANY of the other 31 teams that has a "keen eye for talent" and drafts all these blue chippers. I can show you 31 other teams failures.
All teams miss more than they hit, and it isn't just the blue chippers who make a difference. The 49'ers haven't been at the top of the draft much, yet year after year, they have unexpected talent pop up seemingly out of nowhere. Granted, the Lions have had more high draft picks than anyone over the last 20 years, but their new GM has at least hit on enough talent to the point where the Lions are a team to be reckoned with. The Ravens always seem to be in a good spot year after year. Even though the Chiefs have drafted at the bottom for the last five years, they still get talent that makes a difference. The Eagles came out of nowhere because of their drafting and personnel moves. It's way too early to tell if VanNess and Reed are going to be blue chippers. They're good, but they're far from blue chippers as of now. The draft is a crapshoot, but your job as GM is to draft well enough to get/keep your team at or near the top, and use personnel moves to fill in the gaps. We just don't have a lot of blue-chip talent on this team right now that has been drafted by Gutey. Of course having an outstanding QB is of utmost importance to a team's success, and it remains to be seen if Love can be that guy.
I will say that Gutey is the least of my concerns right now with this team because I don't know who's really running the show there, and we know Gutey doesn't have the full power a GM should have. I'm much more concerned with the coaching and Silo Murphy at this point.
Stumbled on this prognostication.
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Lowest pff score on offense - Jenkins
Lowest pff score on defense - Clark
Those are supposed to be our best of their position groups.
Other team targeting the the best lineman knowing they are the only real source of resistance?
Jenkins wasn't that worst O player yesterday, that would be Deguera.
Clark wasn't worst on D, that was Valentine.
@Harry Manback posted:All teams miss more than they hit, and it isn't just the blue chippers who make a difference. The 49'ers haven't been at the top of the draft much, yet year after year,.
Stop right there.....
2019
- Round 1, No. 2 overall: Nick Bosa, DE, Ohio State. ...
- Round 2, No. 36 overall: Deebo Samuel, WR, South Carolina. ...
2020
- Javon Kinlaw, DT, 1st round (No. 14 overall) Grade: A. ...
- Brandon Aiyuk, WR, 1st round (No. 25 overall) Grade: B. ...
2021
- Round 1, pick 3 - Trey Lance, QB, North Dakota State.
- Round 2, pick 48 (from LV) - Aaron Banks, G, Notre Dame
I'll stop right there because they didn't have 2022 first rounder due to the Trey Lance trade.
They tanked during some of those years
2018 they were 4-12
2019 = 13-3
2020 = 6-10
2021 = 10-7
2022 of course 13-4
The Niners have not been good during the draft but they've been good enough and had some very high selections (as you can see) including going back to the theft of the Bears with the Trubisky fiasco 😆
Just take a look and do a deep dive into any teams selections. Nobody is great at this.....nobody....you just have to be better than most....so far Gutey has been
I have 0 concern about this kid becoming a second contract player. Work, work, work.
All of my draft picks are blue chippers. Just sayin.
@Boris posted:Stop right there.....
2019
- Round 1, No. 2 overall: Nick Bosa, DE, Ohio State. ...
- Round 2, No. 36 overall: Deebo Samuel, WR, South Carolina. ...
2020
- Javon Kinlaw, DT, 1st round (No. 14 overall) Grade: A. ...
- Brandon Aiyuk, WR, 1st round (No. 25 overall) Grade: B. ...
2021
- Round 1, pick 3 - Trey Lance, QB, North Dakota State.
- Round 2, pick 48 (from LV) - Aaron Banks, G, Notre Dame
I'll stop right there because they didn't have 2022 first rounder due to the Trey Lance trade.
They tanked during some of those years
2018 they were 4-12
2019 = 13-3
2020 = 6-10
2021 = 10-7
2022 of course 13-4
The Niners have not been good during the draft but they've been good enough and had some very high selections (as you can see) including going back to the theft of the Bears with the Trubisky fiasco 😆
Just take a look and do a deep dive into any teams selections. Nobody is great at this.....nobody....you just have to be better than most....so far Gutey has been
To carry on with the Gutey lovefest, please compare his trade of picks for impact veteran players, ya know like SFs acquisitions of Christian McCaffrey and Trent Williams.
Or Philly's acquisitions of AJ Brown, Darius Slay and D'Andre Swift.