Blunt Remarks By My Buddy Bad Bob McGinn

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Why then does he wait until something goes wrong to put out very critical articles full of hindsight? Why are there no articles on what they're doing right when things are going well? He's pandering to the gloom and doom crowd.

I don't think he always waits for something to go wrong before writing a critical article.

Here is the column Bob McGinn wrote on January 14th, one day before the Giants game:
Packer Defense

The irony is that a woeful defense that almost everyone saw as the weak link to possibly end the Packer season wasn't. Why the offense suffered a complete meltdown will probably be debated forever.

Both articles take the D to task, which it should have been. For a unit to be as good as it was last year and to lay an egg this year is inexcusable. McGinn also makes his points with some good observations. This is stuff that should have been said a lot earlier.

I felt like the D was allowed to get away with crap, ala, "This is our identity. We give up a lot of yards. Big deal as long as we win." That's not the attitude I want our D to have. A good D goes out and knocks the snot out of the other team, isn't afraid to tackle, and contests every single yard on the field with blood and guts. That was NOT our D this year.

As for TT not resigning Jenkins, everyone crabbed last year about how he was hurt all the time and couldn't stay on the field for a full year. I can't fault him for not resigning him. I can fault him for not finding his replacement, and I do.

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everyone crabbed last year about how he was hurt all the time and couldn't stay on the field for a full year.

Not everyone..

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Originally posted by FreeSafety:
By the time the playoffs came around it was clear what we had on defense.

The team can and did win with that defense. 15-1 in fact.

The offense and the offensive genius, MM, played their worst game at the most important time.

Meanwhile the Patriots are going to their 5th SB in the past 10 years with a far weaker roster. With a defense that is almost as bad as the Packers. With WRs playing DB.

Neither TT nor Capers nor the defense are the reason the Packers didn't make it to the NFCC game.

I tend to agree with McGinn's comments. And with regards to why he waited til now to say this......things were going well during the season. Hard to be too critical of a 15-1 team coming off a Super Bowl title. But when they fail to win even a single playoff game at home, of course the criticism is going to come out. And rightfully so!! This team couldn't win a damn playoff game at home and that's not ok for this team and i bet TT agrees. With the coaching staff being vultured this offseason, I'd expect some changes. And outside the top 20 players, no one's job is safe.

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Originally posted by michiganjoe:
The irony is that a woeful defense that almost everyone saw as the weak link to possibly end the Packer season wasn't. Why the offense suffered a complete meltdown will probably be debated forever.

I disagree with this. Sure, the offense did not play a good game against the Giants. But that's why you have a defense -- to keep you competitive in these games. And they were not effective against the Giants. They gave up 20 points in that first half...both TDs were inexcusable. They had no pressure on Manning and allowed him to pick up several third and longs.

Neither the Giants nor Patriots were very impressive on offense yesterday. But their defenses (granted, against inferior offenses), kept them in the game to win it. We saw times in 2010 (Jets and Bears regular season, Bears post-season) where the Packer offense struggled, but the defense bailed them out. That just didn't happen this year.

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Originally posted by ammo:
Why would anyone call McGinn their buddy?

Guy lives in Colorado, friends are hard to come by

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Originally posted by Rockin' Robin:
They gave up 20 points in that first half...both TDs were inexcusable. They had no pressure on Manning and allowed him to pick up several third and longs.

Both those TDs were definitely ugly and I'm not suggesting the defense played well, just that they didn't lose the game. The offense plays an even average game and the Packers probably win.

Three offensive fumbles all season and three in the Giant game alone. Not a recipe for victory.

Thank Jerry for the loss to the Chiefs.

If the Packer offense had laid that egg after going 16-0 in the regular season, it would been a fail of even more epic proportions.

I agree the offense had an off day.

But I just don't agree that the defense wasn't at fault to. The Giants just scored 20 points in a full game and OT against the 49ers, 10 of which were special team gifts.

Contrast that to the first half against Green Bay, where the Giants scored 20 points the following way:

*Opening drive FG after converting a 3rd and 8 and 3rd and 10

*Next drive 66 yard TD. We know that was an awful play with the missed tackles. But what about the prior play Brad Jones just let Hakeem Nicks catch a 15 yard pass on 3rd and 11 right in front of him.

*Next drive blocked FG after bothced onside kick

*Next drive, INT, followed by Kuhn fumble, followed by FG

*Disastrous final drive where not only they give up the Hail Mary, but they allow that awful Bradshaw run when NY was content to run out the clock.

That's just a horrendous defensive half that puts an enormous burden on the offense to try and be perfect. Contrast that to what the 49ers or Patriots just did this weekend. Or what the 2010 Packers did several times, including the playoffs.

In the regular season, this team was 15-1 because of the offense.
In the post-season, this team was 0-1 becaues of both the offense and defense.

Irv died the day before the game IIRC... I think the week long process of having the Philbin tragedy set in had to effect them. With Irv, I expect it was still not real for some of the players.

Add in the fact Irv was older. Mike Philbin was nearly the same age as most players. This had to hit them hard.

I don't subscribe to the Philbin death as playing a role theory.. Was that on Peprahs mind when he thought he was Chuck Cecil and went for the hard hit instead of wrapping up?

That's something 95% of the DBs in the NFL do, even before Philbin's son died. Poor analogy.

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Originally posted by Rockin' Robin:

In the regular season, this team was 15-1 because of the offense.
In the post-season, this team was 0-1 becaues of both the offense and defense.

Packer offense averaged 34 points per game.

Packer offense scored 38 against the Giants, in their house, just a few weeks before.

Packer offense scored only 13 pre-garbage time points, at home, in the most important game of the season.

Was the Packer defense expected to hold Eli and the Giants under 20 points in that game? No way.

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Originally posted by michiganjoe:
The irony is that a woeful defense that almost everyone saw as the weak link to possibly end the Packer season wasn't. Why the offense suffered a complete meltdown will probably be debated forever.

I'm wonder how much of an effect the Philbin situation had. Not so much because everyone was upset (though I'm sure they were), but because most of the work that Philbin does is during the week for the game planning. With Joe gone for that, McCarthy had to do it himself with eventual aid from the other assistant coaches. I know that wouldn't affect the dropped passes and fumbles, but it would sure affect what to do in different situations, which routes the receivers would run, etc.

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Originally posted by BrainDed:
Was that on Peprahs mind when he thought he was Chuck Cecil and went for the hard hit instead of wrapping up?

is that the standard for a death of a coach's son having an impact? that they be thinking about it specifically play by play?

MM has said many times that playing a team a second time in a season is much easier because you've already done a majority or the game planning in preparation for the earlier game.

I doubt a whole lot of game plan changes were needed 5 weeks after beating the same team.

I don't think any of us will ever fully know. It had to have had an effect, but how much or whether it's understandable depends on details to which we'll never be privy. This passage from Peter King at least should tell folks just how much was going on and when:

Now to the tragedy. Birk asked coach John Harbaugh if he could take a day to go to Green Bay to mourn with the Philbin family, and Harbaugh, in the middle of a playoff week, gave Birk a day. He went to the wake on Thursday night, the night before the funeral, and got to tell Philbin how much he'd meant to his career, and his life, and to tell him how sorry he was. He wasn't alone. Ferentz went to the funeral, and the outpouring from Iowans touched him. "Dallas Clark didn't even play for Joe,'' said Ferentz. "Dallas was a tight end. But he drove seven hours to pay his respects. That just showed the respect he had, and so many of the former players had, for Joe.'' "The outpouring of support from the Kirk Ferentzes, the Dallas Clarks, the Matt Birks, all the Packers, all the friends in our lives, without that, I don't know how we'd have made it,'' said Philbin. "This was a tough call, in a very tough time. When Mr. Ross told me things were looking good on Friday, I told him I had to go home and look my wife, my kids, in the eye and see how they were with this. Is it the right thing at the right time? So I went home. I talked to them all. My children said this would be what Michael would have wanted.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c....xlvi.matchup/1.html

Really good take on the situation. I fully agree with the Offense issue, Death, wake and funeral. Sad end to a great year. We have a lot of changes in front of us.

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Originally posted by who:
I can't prove it, but I really think the offense was undone by the Philbin tragedy. A death can linger. It threw the normal process off all week, and I think caused an understandable lack of interest and focus. The wake on Thursday, the funeral Friday. The announcers said on Saturday the mood was somber in the building. It was an overall bad night for them offensively. Everyone seemed off. Not just one person. Kuhn's first fumble ever? Rodgers's first fumble all season? Even McCarthy had some odd calls.

The defense played like it did all year.

McGinn is a fine writer, and this is a good piece.

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Originally posted by
I don't subscribe to the Philbin death as playing a role theory.. Was that on Peprahs mind when he thought he was Chuck Cecil and went for the hard hit instead of wrapping up?

Make excuses all you want.. Fact is the D gave it's standard lousy performance and the offense wasn't able to overcome it.

During the SB year many of you dismissed the "hot team" theory but now many subscribe to this one.. Wreaks of excuse making in my book.

To a person nobody on here used that as an excuse. It is a reason the offense played out of sync. And if you don't understand the difference between the 2 then there is no hope for your dead brain.

reeks not wreaks

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Wreaks of excuse making in my book

Hopefully your 'book' contains other purls of wisdum too!!

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Originally posted by ammo:
To a person nobody on here used that as an excuse. It is a reason the offense played out of sync. And if you don't understand the difference between the 2 then there is no hope for your dead brain.

This is pure gold.

Maybe Hauser can splain it to you.

I won't say Bob is 100% wrong with his analysis and I agree that he is much more objective than the GBPG gang, but he's going for shock value with a lot of this crap.

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In chronological order, let's look back at the people and events that shaped the worst defense in franchise history and the second-worst defense in NFL history. Clearly, this is a fall that could have been avoided.

Seriously? I'm supposed to take that statement seriously? The worst defense in franchise history. Has he already forgotten the Blitzin Bob Slowik defense of 2004 that started all-stars like Mark Roman, Ahmad Carroll, Hannibal Navies, Bhawoh Jue, Michael Hawthorne, Clete Hunt, Paris Lenon, R-Kal Trucluck, and James Lee. I mean seriously Bob, the worst defense in franchise history? Yeah they gave up a lot of yards, but I don't think even a long time diehard Bears fan/Packer hater could say this is the worst defense they've seen in GB. That's a bunch of crap IMO. And then he begins to point out how it could have all been avoided like it was made aware to Thompson at the time that all of this would happen and he chose to disregard it. Weak.

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There even have been whispers among Hawk's teammates. They know better than anyone else how little his game has to offer.

There's no way he can substantiate this. That makes it a rumor with no basis. I don't care how much of an insider Bob is, if he can't back up his claims then he's no better than Joe Arrigo. What purpose does that serve other than to create controversy and stir up crap?

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Jenkins was the same player in Philadelphia that he had been in Green Bay except he didn't miss any games. Neal, of course, proved worthless. The entire D-line had 37½ pressures in 17 games this year whereas Jenkins had 35 by himself in 15 games last year.

This is Monday Morning QB crap. It's not analysis, it's saying I told ya so even though he didn't tell anyone so. What's the point of it, it's not being objective it's being critical for the sake of being critical. He's telling the people who are still upset about the playoff loss exactly the kind of negativity they're feeling. And it may be true, it's completely unnecessary. Do we all really need it pointed out that we didn't get the same kind of pressure we did in 2010? Even to a casual fan that's common knowledge.

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A year ago, the Packers played over many more injuries than just Nick Collins. This time they didn't because a raft of defenders fell off their performance level of 2010, including Woodson, Williams, Shields, Peprah, Hawk, Raji, Neal, Frank Zombo, Jarius Wynn, C.J. Wilson and Howard Green.

Some of those who coordinated and coached offenses against Green Bay this season pointed out that Capers' fire-zone scheme wasn't exactly hard to figure out, either.

So instead of saying specifically what these guys did wrong, he just lists a bunch players and says they regressed. That's lazy. And now Dom Capers scheme is just not good enough a year after it dominated the league and was good enough to win a SB with? Some who have coordinated against it say it's not hard to figure out, are there others that say it is hard to figure out? Are they well respected coordinators who truly have it figured out or are they crappy coordinators with sour grapes? That's just trying to stir of controversy. Again that's crappy analysis in my book.

I don't have a problem with his opinions, he's entitled to them and I respect his experience as a journalist. He has had some good articles that I have enjoyed, but his last few I've seen have been lazy and more akin to something you would see at Packerchatters. He's not analyzing the team or being so objective, he's giving nonconstructive criticism with the sole purpose of creating controversy/buzz to get page views. And on top of that he heaps on unsubstantiated rumors and weak opinions that sound like something a casual football fan would come up with. He's better than that.

Why the argument? Face it, the O, the D, and the coaching all were lacking last week. All will need upgrading or at the least tuning up.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Really unnecessary silent killer.

GD, I honestly can't figure out what would bother you about his critical analysis of this defense. I thought he provided enough cold hard numbers to complement his opinions, which I guess could be considered lazy since they are so obvious. I do give you credit for sticking to your guns all season long about this defense.

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Originally posted by BrainDed:

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Originally posted by ammo:
To a person nobody on here used that as an excuse. It is a reason the offense played out of sync. And if you don't understand the difference between the 2 then there is no hope for your dead brain.

This is pure gold.

Sounds like we are one big happy family again. Nothing like a pathetic loss to bring out the love.

Must have missed my bold comments in his post (I addressed each quote specifically). That was an effort!

I'm not bothered by critical analysis of the defense, I have made no bones about the fact that I think they have underachieved and what the problem is. I just don't see the reason to hail this article as reasonable and objective when it's full of hindsight, weak analysis and unsubstantiated claims. I don't get the point of the article. What is he trying to say, they weren't that good? The pass rush was lacking? Did that really need to be said? Are those things we don't already know? And then to throwing crap out there about how "whispers in the lockerroom" are saying Hawk should be sent packing is ridiculous. Saying he thinks Hawk should be sent packing is perfectly fine, but to add that "whispers in the lockerroom" stuff is Joe Arrigo kind of writing. That's the kind of journalism I expected from Greg Bedard. He freely admits that the 2010 defense was really good, so the line between a really good, SB caliber defense and the second worst defense in NFL history is Cullen Jenkins...really? Not buyin it. Think about some of the truly awful defenses we've seen in the NFL even this year, are they 1 player away from being a championship caliber defense again? That's silly.

I'll try again, see bold in the post below...

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
I'm not bothered by critical analysis of the defense, I have made no bones about the fact that I think they have underachieved and what the problem is. I just don't see the reason to hail this article as reasonable and objective when it's full of hindsight, weak analysis and unsubstantiated claims. There were at least two comments backed up by numbers. Where the defense ranked in Packer and NFL history and the pressure Jenkins brought last year alone compared to the total this year. The Jenkins vs. the whole team number is startling. I don't get the point of the article. What is he trying to say, they weren't that good? The pass rush was lacking? Did that really need to be said? Are those things we don't already know? And then to throwing crap out there about how "whispers in the lockerroom" are saying Hawk should be sent packing is ridiculous. Saying he thinks Hawk should be sent packing is perfectly fine, but to add that "whispers in the lockerroom" stuff is Joe Arrigo kind of writing. You may not like that type of writing but a columnist like him cannot put out the names of sources, hence the whispers comment. I can respect you not liking that but there is no other way for him to put that out there without protecting sources. That's the kind of journalism I expected from Greg Bedard. He freely admits that the 2010 defense was really good, so the line between a really good, SB caliber defense and the second worst defense in NFL history is Cullen Jenkins...really? Not buyin it. He made very pointed comments about the secondary play and the Deion Sanders approach to playing regarding jumping routes and tacking. I never read it as it was the loss of Jenkins only as the reason for the drastic falloff (although I will put it at number 1). Think about some of the truly awful defenses we've seen in the NFL even this year, are they 1 player away from being a championship caliber defense again? That's silly.

Those weren't the unsubstantiated claims I was referring to, but I have a question for you. Do you think this was the 2nd worst defense in NFL history? Don't spout about numbers and rankings, do you think this was the 2nd worst defense in NFL history and the worst in Packers history? Of all the defenses you have seen in however long you have been watching football, is this one of worst defenses of all time?

Why put those types of comments in the article at all if he can't back them up with names or even quotes, he doesn't even give specific quotes. Again, that's Joe Arrigo type journalism. McGinn is making sensationalist claims that have no fact. If he says, "an unnamed player in the lockerroom went on record saying many of the players in the lockerroom feel DJ Smith should be playing and not Hawk..." then that's something a little more substantial for me to wrap my brain around. He can't say that because those "whispers" are made up.

Oh yes, the Deion Sanders approach to playing, very analytical. He glosses over the primary issues of why they were aggressive and going for INTs and why they gave up so many big plays, in favor of pinning it on the players as just them being selfish and irresponsible...something they picked up from the king of such things Charles Woodson. The same Charles Woodson who won Defensive Player of the Year, a Super Bowl, and a Heisman with that very irresponsible style of play. Oh no his emotional leader front clouds us from the fact that he plays selfish and irresponsible football. The entire defense played with the exact same approach last season, but they do it this season sans Cullen Jenkins and they're incompetent. Seems like the line between a really good D and an incompetent D that is one of the all time worst is Cullen Jenkins.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Those weren't the unsubstantiated claims I was referring to, but I have a question for you. Do you think this was the 2nd worst defense in NFL history? Don't spout about numbers and rankings, do you think this was the 2nd worst defense in NFL history and the worst in Packers history? Of all the defenses you have seen in however long you have been watching football, is this one of worst defenses of all time?

Unlike other defenses in NFL history that were as poor in terms of giving up yardage like this one was (only the '81 Colts were worse), they did have some redeeming qualities. They forced turnovers which did contribute to the offense ranking #2 in points scored in NFL history. They did tend to stiffen in the red zone enough to keep scores respectable enough for that #2 scoring offense in NFL history to take over and win 15 games.

That all said, the defense was below average, and faced with a gauntlet of playoff teams that could exploit it, they failed to even get through round 1 of the gauntlet. That's enough for me for the defense to deserve plenty of criticism.

I'm not trying to say they are above reproach. I feel almost the same you do fight, they underachieved big time. They have some big flaws definitely, but like I said earlier, the only differences from 2010 to 2011 are Nick Collins and Cullen Jenkins...2 players move our defense from 2nd in points allowed to below average? I'm not buyin it. Losing two players, starters or not, doesn't send an entire defense into mediocrity, it means they were just a couple guys short.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Those weren't the unsubstantiated claims I was referring to, but I have a question for you. Do you think this was the 2nd worst defense in NFL history?

I can easily answer that as no, but the dropoff may be unprecedented.

Why put those types of comments in the article at all if he can't back them up with names or even quotes, he doesn't even give specific quotes. Again, that's Joe Arrigo type journalism. McGinn is making sensationalist claims that have no fact. If he says, "an unnamed player in the lockerroom went on record saying many of the players in the lockerroom feel DJ Smith should be playing and not Hawk..." then that's something a little more substantial for me to wrap my brain around. He can't say that because those "whispers" are made up.

That has been the method of reporting these insiders have used for years. Again, if they want those type of comments, they cannot be on the record. Guys like him and Cristal have used these for years. I respect these guys' integrity as journalists and have no problem giving them the benefit of the doubt when they cite unnamed players or "whispers" in this example.

Oh yes, the Deion Sanders approach to playing, very analytical. He glosses over the primary issues of why they were aggressive and going for INTs and why they gave up so many big plays, in favor of pinning it on the players as just them being selfish and irresponsible...something they picked up from the king of such things Charles Woodson. The same Charles Woodson who won Defensive Player of the Year, a Super Bowl, and a Heisman with that very irresponsible style of play. Oh no his emotional leader front clouds us from the fact that he plays selfish and irresponsible football. The entire defense played with the exact same approach last season, but they do it this season sans Cullen Jenkins and they're incompetent. Seems like the line between a really good D and an incompetent D that is one of the all time worst is Cullen Jenkins. The difference is pressure and there is only one difference from last year and that is Jenkins, hence the use of that example. I saw the cavalier play by the DBs just like he did all year (and commented on it). They played bad and maybe believed their hype. Woodson, from my view, regressed as well. However it may have been from trying to overcompensate from the lackluster play from his fellow DB teammates. It was obvious all year that group seemed to think they could jump routes and "go Deion on the bit" when they just aren't that good. I do find it amazing that this play was consistent the whole year and never corrected. The blame is universal on defense and this article does a fine job pointing that out, IMO...

They may have lost only 2 guys, but the other 9 didn't play as well either. From top to bottom, the defense didn't do enough this year.