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I also expect the defense to be better this year.  The injuries were hard to overcome the last few years so I give Capers a pass.  This year, if healthy, there is no more excuses left.  If the defense stinks again, it is time for Capers to go.   The defense has been the only thing holding this team back, except for last year.  I have faith.

Capers has much better personnel this year, but I worry about is tendency to try to play the mastermind too much. With better players, he should just be able to tone down the mad scientist routine and turn 'em loose. I agree -- either the defense is very much improved or Dom can take his 6-inch-thick playbook somewhere else.

Originally Posted by Boris:
Dom has no excuses this year. I expect, at a minimum, 2010 quality defense this season. Anything less & it'll be time to make a change.

2010 may be asking a little too much. That defense finished 2nd overall in points allowed. I'd be happy with a defense that can be in the top 12 in points allowed.

It comes down to accountability....er, lack thereof.

 

Yes, injuries played a role over the years. But even when healthy and guys like AJ Hawk, Brad Jones, Nick Perry (rarely healthy), MD Jennings would stank it up and down the field their jobs continued to be safe. No coach including Capers had a boot up their ass demanding better play/performance or face the bench.

 

But if they stay healthy, without a doubt Capers has just about everything he could want. He has the mix of veterans and youngsters to make his defense a premier one.

 

To ask that this defense be in the top 12 in points allowed (let's face it, that's the one that matters) is not asking too much IMO.

 

And if they can do that along with this offense, there is no reason this team shouldn't win >12 games.

What they are saying GD is that they have formed their opinions and are going to stick to them, same as most human beings.

 

The Packers won the 2010 Super Bowl with:

 

(1) Pro Bowler Charles Woodson 

(1) 2nd team Pro Bowler Nick Collins 

(1) alternate Pro Bowler in Clay Matthews

 

If that's a roster full of Pro Bowlers, then yes, that's what Dom Capers needs to succeed.

 

3 out of 15 players who are deemed to be top 5 at their position in the NFC. 

So this year, GB needs 2 more players besides Matthews to step up because Collins and Woodson are gone

 

Originally Posted by El-Ka-Bong:

why even bother having defensive coordinators.  They are simply sortable by the talent they have on the roster. 

When I see defensive coordinator with 2 years of DC experience in college field a championship defense in Seattle then yeah it makes me believe talent might have a little something to do with it.

I believe Tramon was also a Pro Bowler that year, thats 4/11. Don't forget that Woodson was the reigning Defensive Player of the Year, he wasn't just another Pro Bowler. And although there weren't more Pro Bowlers, we all know Cullen Jenkins and BJ Raji played at a Pro Bowl level (13.5 sacks combined). In reality he had Woodson, Williams, Collins, Raji, Matthews, and Jenkins all performing at elite levels...6 out of 11 players performing well. Heck even the ILBs (Bishop and Hawk) had career years combining for 200+ tackles, 3.5 sacks, and 4 INTs. It's not a coincidence that when players started being subtracted from that D that it Capers was less able to do the things he did in 2010...no Nick Collins, no Cullen Jenkins, no Des Bishop, etc. 

They went 15-1 with a very bad defense and with this offense mediocre is probably sufficient. Got my hopes up too many times and until I see tangible results on the field all the talk of improvement from the organization is just lip service.

Originally Posted by Shoeless Joe:

(Peeing on an electric fence)

 

Hah! Memories...

The next door neighbors to my folks were an older couple (past retirement age), and had a German Shepard. It wasn't vicious, but they did have an electric fence around the perimeter of their backyard to keep it contained when it was outside.

After a few years, curiosity finally got the better of me and I had to try peeing on it. I did so quite a few times, and nothing ever happened. So, the next logical (?) thing to try was to slap the wire, and again, nothing happened. I finally began to think it must me dead, so I reached over the fence a grasped the wire. ZZZAP!!!

Capers has been too willing to stick with struggling players when there are options for replacement.

 

I hope he doesn't stick with B. Jones, Burnett, and Raji if they are not producing.   I would rather see a young guy take his lumps then a tired Vet get whooped. 

Last edited by BrainDed
Originally Posted by michiganjoe:

Got my hopes up too many times and until I see tangible results on the field all the talk of improvement from the organization is just lip service.

5 straight playoff appearances 3 straight NFC North Titles and a SB in that stretch and your waiting to see tangible results? 

 

Sorry but this is the definition of spoiled silly by an organization that has managed to set it's own expectation bar incredibly high. 

quote:
GD:
I believe Tramon was also a Pro Bowler that year, thats 4/11.

That was my first though when the 3 pro bowlers info was shared.  His playoff performance was lights out.

Last edited by phaedrus
Originally Posted by ChilliJon:
5 straight playoff appearances 3 straight NFC North Titles and a SB in that stretch and your waiting to see tangible results?  

The defense hasn't carried its weight and I'm absolutely waiting for tangible improvement from the unit. 

Originally Posted by Grave Digger:
When I see defensive coordinator with 2 years of DC experience in college field a championship defense in Seattle then yeah it makes me believe talent might have a little something to do with it.

So there we have it, no real point in keeping Dom around.  Since coordinators cannot elevate the skill of players, or scheme around their strengths, or gameplan against an opponent, then we should get the cheapest guy we can and spend that money on a special teams coach.  Dom's defenses didn't underperform, they just did not have enough guys to tip the skale of talant.  Considering offensive coordinators are allowed to try to scheme around weaknesses of the defense (or strengths of the offense), it really is unfair to judge defensive coordinators at all, considering how handcuffed they are to only performing at or near their talent levels.  All this time I felt Caper's defenses crapped the bed and fell below expectations, but in the end it was simply where they ranked on talent that drove performance.  Not being able to cover the read option wasn't a problem with preparation, it was just destiny that they lose to the 49ers.   All those times we saw talented defenses underperform, not true, it was just a poor evaluation of talent.  Those teams that were bad one year, then got better?  Significant influx of talent.  Only reasonably explanation.  I'm curious why you even see teams bother switching from 3/4 to 4/3 alignments.  Those guys who switched teams or scheme's and had better years.  They.got.more.talented. 

 

simple. 

Last edited by "We"-Ka-Bong

The D in this preseason appears to be able to stop the run game so far but the pass protection isn't anything to write home about. Shields seems totally unaware of whats happening in the game. Dix's a rookie so mistakes happen.

House blows in one play, good defense the next.

I wouldn't put too much weight into what we have seen the secondary do after two games and not playing any scheme to pressure the Q.  At least that's what I'm telling myself.  The DL has looked good vs. the run but the starters only played a couple series.  The real test for this now slightly undersized DL will be late in games vs. teams that can run.  How long before the little guys get overrun?  If the depth is there, they could be ok.

Remember in weeks 1-4 last season, GB was also very stout against the run. Then the wheels fell off and GB couldn't stop the run to save their life. And yes, that happened before Jolly got hurt and before Pickett hit the wall.

 

GB finished 25th, allowing 125.0 pg

Originally Posted by El-Ka-Bong:
So there we have it, no real point in keeping Dom around.  Since coordinators cannot elevate the skill of players, or scheme around their strengths, or gameplan against an opponent, then we should get the cheapest guy we can and spend that money on a special teams coach.  Dom's defenses didn't underperform, they just did not have enough guys to tip the skale of talant.  Considering offensive coordinators are allowed to try to scheme around weaknesses of the defense (or strengths of the offense), it really is unfair to judge defensive coordinators at all, considering how handcuffed they are to only performing at or near their talent levels.  All this time I felt Caper's defenses crapped the bed and fell below expectations, but in the end it was simply where they ranked on talent that drove performance.  Not being able to cover the read option wasn't a problem with preparation, it was just destiny that they lose to the 49ers.   All those times we saw talented defenses underperform, not true, it was just a poor evaluation of talent.  Those teams that were bad one year, then got better?  Significant influx of talent.  Only reasonably explanation.  I'm curious why you even see teams bother switching from 3/4 to 4/3 alignments.  Those guys who switched teams or scheme's and had better years.  They.got.more.talented. 

 

simple. 

No crows hanging around this straw man. 

 

Oh man why wasn't Capers standing behind the defense telling each of them where to go on each play like Pop Warner. Why wasn't he stopping the play to explain to his rookie OLB to not lose containment because that's why the QB can rack up so many yards! Why wasn't he stepping in for his crappy Safeties and showing them how to break on the football and intercept it. Talented players execute properly, defenses where players are executing properly are successful. 

 

 

pretty sure no coaches stand behind defenses, regardless of talent levels. 

 

But again, now that we know he has no impact on the team aside from the level of talent he is given, why bother to keep him around?

 

Originally Posted by Grave Digger:
 Talented players execute properly, defenses where players are executing properly are successful.  

This is horse****

Last edited by "We"-Ka-Bong
Originally Posted by packerboi:

Remember in weeks 1-4 last season, GB was also very stout against the run. Then the wheels fell off and GB couldn't stop the run to save their life. And yes, that happened before Jolly got hurt and before Pickett hit the wall.

 

GB finished 25th, allowing 125.0 pg


Weirdly enough the wheels fell off when Brad Jones got hurt and AJ Hawk resumed making the defensive calls for the remainder of the season.

Originally Posted by El-Ka-Bong:

Originally Posted by Grave Digger:

 Talented players execute properly, defenses where players are executing properly are successful.  

This is horse****

 

Thursday Sept. 4th

 

CAN'T WAIT!!

Originally Posted by GBFanForLife:

They should just see if it is ok to forfeit the season. Since they won't be able to live up to the high expectations of the fan base.

still one of the dummest ****ing takes I can find on this board.  Pollyanna or Bust!

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