For fun. The real best of all time.

William Henderson...hmmm. What about Jim Taylor? Have to see the stats on Hendo.

What about KR and PR?

Travis Williams or Bob Hayes
Terry Metcalf

KR-Devin Hester
PR-Same

This thread should create quite a bit of conversation...

While I don't like him, at all, Jim Brown is the best running back to ever play the game IMO. My second choice would be Barry Sanders. Walter Payton would be 3rd.

William Henderson? I don't think he makes the top 15 or 20 list. You serious? Jim Taylor, John Riggins, Tom Rathman, Daryl Johnston...

TE for me is Tony Gonzalez. This guy is #11 on the all-time RECEIVING list...and he's still going.

Jerry Rice is easy but the 2nd is tougher. Fitzgerald doesn't even come to mind for me. If we're talking just on-field production minus all the BS, you have to strongly consider T.O. there... even Moss. Lots of receivers to choose from. I think Fitzgerald COULD be that guy but he has a lot to accomplish between now and then.

I think Joe Green was overrated a bit... John Randle, Lee Roy Selmon, Warren Sapp, Merlin Olsen... all great football players.

I'd take Ray Lewis over any MLB in NFL history. Some dislike him because of the legal issues, but on the field, I've never seen a more fierce dude than him. Granted, I wasn't around to see the likes of Buttkiss and Knitski.... but Lewis is just incredible to watch.

For CB, the best one I've seen play was Deion Sanders. The guy absolutely shut down half the field. The knock on him was his lack of tackling obviously. Darrell Green gets slighted as well. He played something like 20 years of ridiculous football.

quote:

Originally posted by ChilliJon:
KR-Devin Hester
PR-Same

There's really no other choice on either of those.

Mike Haynes is the best pure CB of all time. The closest I've ever seen for pure coverage skill is Adderley, Champ Bailey, Willie Brown, Mel Renfro, Lem Barney, and Chaz Woodson.

Sanders could cover, but he couldn't tackle anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Pakrz:
Fitzgerald doesn't even come to mind for me. If we're talking just on-field production minus all the BS, you have to strongly consider T.O. there... even Moss. Lots of receivers to choose from. I think Fitzgerald COULD be that guy but he has a lot to accomplish between now and then.

Fitz has done pretty well considering the QB's he's had feeding him the ball and the lack of a #2 WR. Peyton and Reggie Wayne would be a big help.

I think there could be a separate category for "best athlete", and insert Bo Jackson and/or Herschel Walker.

Jackson certainly isn't the best RB of all time. That goes to Brown-Sanders-Sweetness.

Larry Fitz is too young be considered. No one can argue his talent and character, but he simply hasn't played long enough.
I'd pair Don Hudson with Rice. Hudson changed the way the WR position was played in the fledgling NLF.

I think I'd take Deacon Jones over Bruce Smith and Alan Page over Ngati.

So many great players from different era. It's about implossible to select a singular "best of" at each position. Still, a fun exercise.

Cool thread CJ. Hard to argue with your list, but wasn't Anthony Munoz an OT?

You're right Shoeless, Munoz was an OT. So he's taking Shell's place. Bruce Matthews at G.

Forrest Gregg over Orlando Pace.

Don Hutson, Steve Largent and others before Fitzgerald.

William Henderson? Really? Hendo was great, but he's nowhere near the best fullback ever to play the game.

Oh man, forgot about Munoz. Crap.

Munoz and Gregg.

QB-Joe Montana
RB-Walter Payton/Barry Sanders/Jim Brown
FB-Bronko Nagurski/Jim Brown
OT-Forrest Gregg, Anthony Munoz
G-John Hannah, Bruce Matthews
C-Jim Otto
TE-Tony Gonzalez
WR-Jerry Rice
WR-Don Hutson

DE-Deacon Jones
DE-Reggie White
DT-Joe Green
DT-Bob Lilly
OLB–Lawrance Taylor
OLB-Jack Ham
ILB-Ray Lewis
CB-Rod Woodson
CB-Dick "Night Train" Lane
S-Ronnie Lott
S-Steve Atwater

Punter-Ray Guy
Kicker- Morten Anderson
COACH- Vince Lombardi/Paul Brown

I like Henderson, but seeing him on that list is like seeing Whoopi Goldberg's name among Oscar winners.

quote:

Originally posted by ChilliJon:
I will argue to no end that Bo Jackson is the best RB of all time. No one is close to what he could do on a footBall field other than Jim Brown and Walter Payton.

Yeah, you had to defend that one. Bo was just a flash in the pan.

quote:

I will argue to no end that Bo Jackson is the best RB of all time.

He might have had the greatest natural athletic ability of any running back ever, but it didn't translate into results. Sorry, but this is just nutty. Even Whoopi Goldman would agree.

Bo could have been one of the best running backs ever to play the game. He had that kind of natural ability. Who knows what he might have done if he hadn't tried playing both baseball and football, or gotten hurt.

As it is, a guy that scored 18 career touchdowns doesn't belong in the greatest of all time discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by heyward:
I like Henderson, but seeing him on that list is like seeing Whoopi Goldman's name among Oscar winners.

Whoopi has won an Oscar and been nominated for another. Maybe you meant Whisper Goodman.

Pretty much almost every guy on my list has been mentioned.

QB - J. Montana
RB - J. Brown
FB - J. Taylor
WR - J. Rice
WR - L. Fitzgerald
TE - K. Winslow
T - A. Munoz, F. Gregg
G - J. Hannah, L. Allen
C - D. Stephenson

DE - R. White, B. Smith
DT - J. Greene, B. Lilly
OLB - L. Taylor, D. Thomas
MLB - R. Lewis
CB - D. Sanders, R. Woodson
S - R. Lott, E. Reed

K - A. Vinatieri
P - R. Guy

Some will say Deion Sanders shouldn't be listed, but there isn't a doubt in my mind he should be. I didn't think either Rod Woodson or Mel Blount was in his class as a cover guy even though they certainly were better tacklers. Deion wasn't a good tackler, but frankly, he was so dominant in coverage, nobody really threw to his side anyways when he was in his prime. He was a weapon on defense.

Like many "best of" lists, you have to define what "best" means. Best over their career or best at their peak. A lot of names could change on that list depending on which definition you pick. For example, and to be a homer for a second, would you pick Montana at his best or Rodgers at his best? Montana was awesome and he won 4 bowls but I don't remember him putting the ball in impossible places the way Rodgers has, not to mention retaining that kind of accuracy on the run. He was mobile but not like AR. Career I would take Montana.

quote:

Originally posted by lambeausouth:

As it is, a guy that scored 18 career touchdowns doesn't belong in the greatest of all time discussion.

The title of the thread is "the real best" of all time. I think including Bo in this discussion makes sense. The guy was a freak. Check out the YAC.

I also forgot that he basically walked off the baseball field onto am NFL field. Really, just plain amazing...

How the hell does Travis Jervey get left out of these threads?

Ray Lewis is a great player.

He ain't no Dick Butkus. Along with LT, the most disruptive and playmaking linebacker ever.

There are a ton of guys that if they had not gotten hurt could've been the best ever. This includes Sterling Sharpe who was putting up incredible stats and making some of the greatest catches. Gale Sayers was arguably one of the most exciting players ever and injuries ended his career.

Lots of great players. I would also agree that Michael Haynes was a great corner. He had Lester Hayes opposite him. I do not think Deion should be included because of his inability to tackle nor play physical. He allowed a ton of big plays because of the chances he took on laying on his receiver.

QB-Joe Montana
RB- Barry Sanders
Classic FB: Jim Taylor
Modern FB- Lorenzo Neal
OT- Anthony Munoz, Orlando Pace
G- Larry Allen, Jerry Kramer
C- Mike Webster
TE- Tony Gonzales
WR- Jerry Rice
WR- Sterling Sharpe

DE- Deacon Jones
DE- Reggie White
DT- Joe Green
DT- Alan Page
OLB– Lawrance Taylor
OLB- Derrick Thomas
ILB- Ray Lewis
CB- Deion Sanders
CB- Rod Woodson
S- Ronnie Lott
S- Ed Reed

Punter- Ray Guy
Kicker- Adam Vinetieri
KR/PR- Devin Hester
COACH- Bill Walsh

For some reason I am intrigued by who to pick for the cornerback position. While there is something to be said for cover corners, there is also something to be said for physicality. Anyway, if it is cover guys, I suppose it has to be Sanders and Michael Haynes.

But, part of me says to go with Mel Blount and Dick Lane. I am thinking the best defense would be one with tremendous physicality at every position and the defense just terrorizes the opposition.

Surprised Walter Jones hasn't been listed yet. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I think he was considered to be better than Orlando Pace when they were both playing.

Hard to compare Butkus to Lewis, as the MLB position has changed so much in the last 15 years. I admit I've never watched Butkus play, but I'm guessing Lewis was better in pass coverage, something MLB's are required to do now in almost all defenses, not just the Cover 2. IMO, Lewis defined what the MLB position is today.

Hard to say you'd leave Deion off b/c he couldn't tackle. Yes, I'd rather him be a better tackler but the way he shut down WR's in his prime has yet to be matched.

QB - Montana
RB - Walter Payton
FB - Jim Brown (I could be wrong but I think technically he was a FB)
WR - Jerry Rice
WR - Don Hutson
TE - Winslow maybe Tony Gonzalez
OT - Munoz and Gregg
OG - Hannah and Matthews
C - Otto

DE - Reggie and Deacon Jones
DT - Joe Greene and Bob Lilly
S - Lott and Atwater
CG - Hayes and Rod Woodson


Coach - Paul Brown or Lombardi

QB - Joe Montana
FB - Jim Brown
HB - Gayle Sayers
WR - Jerry Rice
WR - Lance Alworth
TE - John Mackey
LT - Munuz
RT - Gregg
G - Hannah
G - I don't know
C - Otto

DE - Jones, White
DT - Greene, Lilly
CB - Blount, Haynes
S - Lott, Reed
LB's - Lewis, Butkus, LT


That was fast. Subject to changes.

Deion is another player who was a great athlete, but far from being the best at his position. JMHO, but his cover skills weren't that great, but his speed sure was. It allowed him to be effective and covered plenty of mistakes.

quote:

JMHO, but his cover skills weren't that great, but his speed sure was. It allowed him to be effective and covered plenty of mistakes.

I don't understand this statement. Isn't your physical ability part of your cover skills? If a guy had such amazing physical ability that he didn't have to cover the way less talented guys do, how can that be held against him?

Deion is on my list because he was not only the most gifted CB IMO to every play, but also one of the smartest. The guy shut down half the field when he was in his prime, and there are scarecely few players that kind of impact at the CB position.

Deion changed the game like no other CB in the 80's and 90's. You couldnt throw to his side of the field.

If he isn't on a list he should be a honorable mention at very least..

I read an article once that stated Deion could run a 4.5-40 BACKWARDS

There's no question he was fast, but I simply look at whether or not he was effective. Much like Darrell Green, that speed allowed him to be a great cover corner.

Was he the best tackler? No, but much like Ed Reed he was a playmaker and that made him special.

I think one could make an argument for Woodson as a CB. My reasoning being he is a physical player that was able to win a DPOY award and be dominant in an era where you can barley sneeze on a WR. Guys like Blount could basically mug WRs. Imagine Woodson back in that era with those rules and simple offenses? Grabbin and jumpin all day long...

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:

Whoopi has won an Oscar and been nominated for another. Maybe you meant Whisper Goodman.

True, she did... but that's the same organization that voted "Shakespeare in Love" over "Saving Private Ryan" for Best Picture. Gotta consider the source.

quote:

Originally posted by StarrToDowler:

True, she did... but that's the same organization that voted "Shakespeare in Love" over "Saving Private Ryan" for Best Picture. Gotta consider the source.

The Color Purple and Ghost were a couple of pretty solid flicks. Eddie and Burgler? Not so much...

quote:

Originally posted by CUPackFan:
Surprised Walter Jones hasn't been listed yet.

I agree, Walter Jones was the best OT of all time.

quote:

Originally posted by Diggr14:
Deion changed the game like no other CB in the 80's and 90's. You couldnt throw to his side of the field.

But you sure wanted to run to his side of the field.

quote:

Originally posted by derps:
How the hell does Travis Jervey get left out of these threads?

The same way Rich Campbell or Craig Nall does.

Bo Jackson. Best RB ever. 4 years in the NFL. He played part time. It was his hobby. 6'1" 230. Clocked 4.12 40 at the combine. If he played 10 years full time he would have gone Gretzky to the record books.