Gary D'Amato: Questions about McCarthy

Apparently with the upcoming merger of the JSO and Press Gazette Sports staff and liklihood of layoffs, D'Amato is angling to get the McGinn sh*t stirrer spot.

I really get a chuckle out of the "MM has a HOF QB so we should win more SBs"....don't these people realize that perhaps MM has something to do with AR developing into the QB that he is? That is MM's specialty http://www.jsonline.com/sports...6mfil-168285666.html  NO ONE envisioned AR becoming the QB that he has, but they don't stop to think that MM is one of the main reasons it has happened. 

Gosh, if only we could hire Lovie......................

If you use the HOF QB logic, then Belichick (Brady), Tomlin (Big Ben), Cowher (Big Ben), Payton (Brees), Dungy (Manning), Lombardi (Starr), Landry (Staubach), Stram (Dawson), Walsh (Montana), and Jimmy Johnson (Aikman) among others all just got lucky because hey happened to get a QB.

I think the "MM-AR era window" is larger than some think. Very young team.

This Packer team is competitive year in & year out. They are a tough out every single year.  We are in the Lombardi Trophy discussion every single year.

We are the gold standard that every team tries to emulate.

MM is a big part of that. TT will continue to work & keep this team competitive for the foreseeable future. 

You can't win a Super Bowl every single year, but damnit if we don't try & it takes an excellent performance to knock us out.

MM & TT have built an excellent program. It's time to get to work on 2016.

Is MM a very good coach? Yes. Does he need to learn to be more creative and look at his assistants with a more critical eye and be willing to make changes much more quickly? Yes.

have to agree there, ned. MM has to be more adaptable. I think he knows this.

Mike was on the doorstep of taking another broken beaten team to his 4th Title game in 10 years. And that broken team bought 100% of what he was selling  

That guy can coach. Gary D'Amato is a writer on professional life support. 

The guy is just reporting the facts and a possible interpretation of those facts.  Like I have been saying, 10 years is a long time for a HC to stay successful in one place.  All good things come to an end sooner or later.

FLPACKER posted:

I really get a chuckle out of the "MM has a HOF QB so we should win more SBs"....don't these people realize that perhaps MM has something to do with AR developing into the QB that he is? That is MM's specialty http://www.jsonline.com/sports...6mfil-168285666.html  NO ONE envisioned AR becoming the QB that he has, but they don't stop to think that MM is one of the main reasons it has happened. 

Including MM, who wanted Alex Smith in San Fran. 

MichiganPacker2 posted:

If you use the HOF QB logic, then Belichick (Brady), Tomlin (Big Ben), Cowher (Big Ben), Payton (Brees), Dungy (Manning), Lombardi (Starr), Landry (Staubach), Stram (Dawson), Walsh (Montana), and Jimmy Johnson (Aikman) among others all just got lucky because hey happened to get a QB.

They were. Those guys weren't horse crap that coaches turned in to unicorns. Very rarely does a team overcome not having a QB, which is why such a premium is paid for them. 

GBP1 posted:

The guy is just reporting the facts and a possible interpretation of those facts.  Like I have been saying, 10 years is a long time for a HC to stay successful in one place.  All good things come to an end sooner or later.

He's reporting his facts and his interpretation of those facts. He's a hack. 

Herschel wrote this a month ago:

So everyone sees the same crap routes/offense all of us have yet the coaches still run it with DropVante and the Slow-Mo Twins why? Especially with a banged up offensive line who isn't providing extra time?

Yeah, I'm warming up to firing McStupidface. Offensive genius, my butt. Two Hall-of-Fame QBS and this is what he has when there's adversity?

Herschel. Shut the mother ****ing up. You are a ****ing moron. 

Boris posted:

This Packer team is competitive year in & year out. They are a tough out every single year.  We are in the Lombardi Trophy discussion every single year.

We are the gold standard that every team tries to emulate.

MM is a big part of that. TT will continue to work & keep this team competitive for the foreseeable future. 

You can't win a Super Bowl every single year, but damnit if we don't try & it takes an excellent performance to knock us out.

MM & TT have built an excellent program. It's time to get to work on 2016.

The Packers with 1 Super Bowl appearance (and victory) in 10 years under MM and 11 season under TT are the Gold Standard of the NFL?

What does that make NE, which will be playing for its 4th Super Bowl appearance (with 1 victory) in the past 9 years (and 7th Super Bowl appearance since 2000, with 4 victories)?

How about Pitt with 3 Super Bowl appearances (and 2 victories) during the TT era or Seattle with 2 Super Bowl appearances in just the past 3 seasons (with 1 victory)?

Heck, Denver is playing next Sunday to get to its 2nd Super Bowl in the past 3 seasons under GM John Elway.

MM & TT have had a lot of success, but winning just 3 playoff games against 5 losses since the 2010 Super Bowl win does not seem like a record of a Gold Standard franchise.

Steve, I don't know what the **** to make of you. I'm hedging on you being a Viking fan. I do know you don't love the Packers. So I kind of view you as a dick. 

Even I know better than to call out the boss on a statement 

I wish MM would grow gills.  If you're not evolving you're not trying.

The last two years the Packers have lost not because the other team played better.  Heck, Seattle was whipped for 55+ minutes last January.  Poor coaching and poor play by the Packers lost that game. 

Last night, the Packers...battered and bruised, "took it to" the Cardinals (the supposed best team in the NFL).  The Cardinals got some lucky calls and still the Packers had a chance to beat them,  But again, a lousy mistake on D, cost them the opportunity to get the ball and win. 

The Packers go 15-1 and MM rests most of the starters.  Bam!  Bounced out at Lambeau. 

Losing three home games to the Bears, Lions and Vikes???  What's up with that?

The lousy mistakes are adding up and it ain't in favor of the Packers.

Look, I have liked Mike McCarthy and I think he epitomizes what the Packers coach should be.  I wish he could coach for another 10 years.  But he's got issues with Rodgers and coaches on his staff.  This season it showed up in an ugly way too.

History in the NFL is against him and Aaron Rodgers has maybe 4-5 good years left.  I dread the thought of seeing this season replayed again in 2016.  And if you look at the seasonal pattern that has been developing since 2010, we might be having these same conversations again in 2017.

ChilliJon posted:

Steve, I don't know what the **** to make of you. I'm hedging on you being a Viking fan. I do know you don't love the Packers. So I kind of view you as a dick. 

Well, some of my favorite non-Packer plays are Drew Pearson pushing Nate Wright for the original Hail Mary, Willie Brown taking Tarkenton to the house and making a memorable Super Bowl highlight for all eternity, Gary Anderson wide left, Nate Poole in the corner of the end zone, 12 men in the huddle and Favre to Tracy Porter in New Orleans in the NFC Championship game and now Blair Walsh wide left, so I can respect your disdain of the Vikings Chill. 

(41 donut, the Freeman Monday Night debacle a couple of years back, and the Steelers, Dolphins, and Chiefs victories over Bud's other Super Bowl teams were all "delicious" as well).

Love the Pack and think it would be foolish to fire MM (and it certainly won't happen).

I just don't happen to believe that pretending that getting to and winning just 1 Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers at QB makes the Pack the envy of every other NFL franchise. 

this escalated quickly....

SteveLuke posted:

 

The Packers with 1 Super Bowl appearance (and victory) in 10 years under MM and 11 season under TT are the Gold Standard of the NFL?

What does that make NE, which will be playing for its 4th Super Bowl appearance (with 1 victory) in the past 9 years (and 7th Super Bowl appearance since 2000, with 4 victories)?

How about Pitt with 3 Super Bowl appearances (and 2 victories) during the TT era or Seattle with 2 Super Bowl appearances in just the past 3 seasons (with 1 victory)?

Heck, Denver is playing next Sunday to get to its 2nd Super Bowl in the past 3 seasons under GM John Elway.

MM & TT have had a lot of success, but winning just 3 playoff games against 5 losses since the 2010 Super Bowl win does not seem like a record of a Gold Standard franchise.

it's fair to call the Patriots the "gold standard". as much as I hate to admit it, that's what they are.

but that doesn't diminish what MM-TT has done in GB. one championship, consistent SB contender, near-total dominance of the NFC North; all while maintaining one of the youngest, most talented rosters in the NFL. Seahawks? these Broncos? flashes in the damn pan, man. GB has gone to the playoffs SEVEN YEARS IN A ROW.

2-time league MVP and SB champion QB.

History in the NFL is against him and Aaron Rodgers has maybe 4-5 good years left.  I dread the thought of seeing this season replayed again in 2016.  And if you look at the seasonal pattern that has been developing since 2010, we might be having these same conversations again in 2017.

QB production peaks at about 37-38 years old. Rodgers will get better (oddly enough); I'd say he's got about 6-7 solid years left and a number of MVP-caliber performances and that gives this team an extremely good chance of winning a championship.

7 straight years in the playoffs.

The only other team in the league that can even be mentioned in the same breath is the Patriots.

Oh, we don't draft convicted murderers (Aaron Hernandez) or tape hand signals with down & distance or jam the headsets of opposing teams while in our stadium.

So yes, you're correct. The Pats are the gold standard. What was I thinking?

SteveLuke posted:

ChilliJon posted:

Steve, I don't know what the **** to make of you. I'm hedging on you being a Viking fan. I do know you don't love the Packers. So I kind of view you as a dick. 

I just don't happen to believe that pretending that getting to and winning just 1 Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers at QB makes the Pack the envy of every other NFL franchise. 

Then what do you believe in? 

 

I just don't happen to believe that pretending that getting to and winning just 1 Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers at QB makes the Pack the envy of every other NFL franchise. 

I agree. The Jacksonville Jaguars spend practice sessions laughing at us. So embarrassing.

There is a great sequence in the movie Michael Clayton between George Clooney and Tom Wilkinson that applies to many posters here. 

"I'm not the enemy"

"Then who are you?"

packmon posted:

this escalated quickly....

SteveLuke posted:

 

The Packers with 1 Super Bowl appearance (and victory) in 10 years under MM and 11 season under TT are the Gold Standard of the NFL?

What does that make NE, which will be playing for its 4th Super Bowl appearance (with 1 victory) in the past 9 years (and 7th Super Bowl appearance since 2000, with 4 victories)?

How about Pitt with 3 Super Bowl appearances (and 2 victories) during the TT era or Seattle with 2 Super Bowl appearances in just the past 3 seasons (with 1 victory)?

Heck, Denver is playing next Sunday to get to its 2nd Super Bowl in the past 3 seasons under GM John Elway.

MM & TT have had a lot of success, but winning just 3 playoff games against 5 losses since the 2010 Super Bowl win does not seem like a record of a Gold Standard franchise.

it's fair to call the Patriots the "gold standard". as much as I hate to admit it, that's what they are.

but that doesn't diminish what MM-TT has done in GB. one championship, consistent SB contender, near-total dominance of the NFC North; all while maintaining one of the youngest, most talented rosters in the NFL. Seahawks? these Broncos? flashes in the damn pan, man. GB has gone to the playoffs SEVEN YEARS IN A ROW.

2-time league MVP and SB champion QB.

 

History in the NFL is against him and Aaron Rodgers has maybe 4-5 good years left.  I dread the thought of seeing this season replayed again in 2016.  And if you look at the seasonal pattern that has been developing since 2010, we might be having these same conversations again in 2017.

QB production peaks at about 37-38 years old. Rodgers will get better (oddly enough); I'd say he's got about 6-7 solid years left and a number of MVP-caliber performances and that gives this team an extremely good chance of winning a championship.

 

 

So we have one of the youngest rosters?... What does that prove, that we have a bright future? How about the future being now?  How about if we'd had a veteran tight end that could run or break a tackle? Or a receiver that could get some separation? Or a decent backup tackle when our line fell apart due to injury?  We might not have claimed the youngest team trophy, but maybe had a better chance as the Lombardi.

And should we rejoice because we have an MVP QB? Big deal. We've had Hall of Fame quarterbacking for over 20 years and have 2 titles. The current Hall of Fame QB has an atrocious record in games against teams with winning records. We've lost 7 playoff games and 5 overtime games, some of those losses in humiliating embarrassment to a QB (Kapernick) who was demoted to back-up.

And the mantra is we've gone to the playoffs seven years in a row. Every year the same story. TT has to make some moves this draft season. Give up some precious draft picks to move up or in a trade. Sign an important FA, maybe even overpay a little. And McCarthy has to self scout and find what he's doing wrong, because our record says he is doing something wrong.

We are not the gold standard, but with one of the best QB's in history, we could be.

having a young, talented roster + an MVP caliber QB means there's a lot to be excited about. that's all i'm saying. I understand where your frustration is coming from and I sympathize with that but just be patient, their time is coming.

I could... hell, I have... spend hour after hour reading Boris and ChilliJon defending my team.

Only thing missing is Satori and Football Henry joining in.

If for some strange reason MM was fired today, Trent Baalke would fire Chip Kelley so he could hire Mike. 

ChilliJon posted:

Steve, I don't know what the **** to make of you. I'm hedging on you being a Viking fan. I do know you don't love the Packers. So I kind of view you as a dick. 

Joe averaged a 95 in the math class.  Mike a 91.  Jim an 88.  Bill an 83.

"Jim is the gold standard of the NFL."

Tony: "I don't get it.  Why isn't Joe the gold standard?"

"Tony, I don't know what the **** to make of you.  I'm hedging on you being a Fred fan.  I do know you don't love Jim.  So I kind of view you as a dick."

Boris posted:

This Packer team is competitive year in & year out. They are a tough out every single year.  We are in the Lombardi Trophy discussion every single year.

Yet the results (Re: Trophies) aren't there. Is that enough? I'd say yeah, so long as they maintain that level of consistency. 

We are the gold standard that every team tries to emulate.

The Packers are one of the teams, but Pittsburgh, New England, maybe Baltimore and Seattle can also stand in that group. 

MM is a big part of that. TT will continue to work & keep this team competitive for the foreseeable future. 

He has been, but that doesn't mean he always will be. Other NFL people have said that even good coaches often hit a point where they just lose that touch with their team. The team under performed this season, offensively. They had some injuries, but no more than some other teams had who are still playing. Would anyone trade Green Bay's current receiving corps for Carolina's, for example? 

You can't win a Super Bowl every single year, but damnit if we don't try & it takes an excellent performance to knock us out.

MM & TT have built an excellent program. It's time to get to work on 2016.

The program is good. As with players, is it better to move on a year early than a year late? I'm not convinced they're at that point, but I'm not going to get mad when someone asks the question. 

i look at what happened to the eagles once andy left.  They wanted to go that extra pinch, instead they put the franchise back 10 years.  be careful what you wish for

True, but the Eagles also didn't have a franchise QB either. 

Welcome to the off season

it's hard to win in the NFL, it's harder to win a SB in the NFL, yet damn near every year my GBP has a shot at it.  Thanks TT & MM!

you may resume despairing in your delusions of incessant guaranteed grandeur...     I'm looking forward to all the turns and twists of the 2016 season.

We're a spoiled group. I fully acknowledge that. One day, MM and TT's run will end and we'll be looking in a new direction. Is that day today? No. Give this GM and HC healthy WRs, find us a real TE, shore up the OL/DL and let's see where GB takes us in 2016.

A couple things to remember:

1.) The 2016 schedule is an easier one. With GB going in as a WC vs a division winner, much easier games are ahead. It's entirely feasible GB could win >12 games.

2.) As has been said many times here, firing MM is one thing. Finding a replacement better than him is entirely another. Look at the names being hired or highly considered after black Monday. Chip Kelly. Mike Shanahan. Mike Smith. Doug Pederson. Really? These guys are better? It's tired retreads or it's complete unknowns. IMO, I'll take my chances in 2016 with what we got.

I'd keep McCarthy, but he'd be on the hot seat this year. As would TT.  As would Capers. They have all made  glaring mistakes over the past few years. McCarthy in his conservative approach, in game planning and not giving  players like Janis opportunities to see what they can do. TT in his inexcusable refusal to at least try to stop the bleeding at positions of obvious weakness. And Capers, despite a very good year this year, continually changing the D in late game situations and going prevent zone at the worst possible times. There is a reason we have lost 7 playoff games and 5 on the last play... the other team's coaches found a way to win, our coaches found a way to lose, or luck. I don't believe it's all luck.

Dom Capers had the right plan. My feeling all week was the best thing Green Bay could do is go after Palmer hard and make him uncomfortable. His past history will tell you that getting to him results in poor throws that become turnovers. The plan worked perfectly. Two interceptions in the books, plus three from Shields that should have been, one by Hayward that I remember and probably some more. At some point, the players have to make the plays. 

You couldn't have asked for a better job by the Packers' run defense. There was NOTHING there all night. They gave up 40 total yards (2.1YPC avg.) to a team averaging 120 yards a game. 

Only thing I didn't like was that after Fitz caught the ball vs. Randall down the sideline, Capers went to more zone coverage, which leads to a higher chance of a "blown" coverage, like the one we saw on the 75 yard completion. 

I've felt at times that Capers defense is sometime too complicated for the players and that could be why we see breakdowns, unfortunately at the worst possible times. Given that, I'm still okay with it. I have to believe that Capers defense is predicated on the idea that the opposition will score some points (I think he's said there goal is 17 or less). For the most part he's held up his end of the deal. The other side of the strategy is that a high powered offense will still win the day. That didn't happen this year for a multitude of reasons. MM brings a lot of great offensive knowledge and the proven ability to develop QB's. This is tough to replace. He has shortcomings, like a lot of coaches. His undying loyalty has cost him at times.  MM is in the position of making TT's steadfast personnel philosophy of not going outside work by squeezing more out of his players. Overall he's done pretty well with it. 'm not sure what the answer is, but to try to replace him now is idiotic, IMO.