Yepper, too many teams run chit shows.
New Cleveland is probably the most extreme, but we need to look no further than our own division, even limiting it to the last 10 years that MM became HC.
Constant turmoil in management, coaching, and players. Poor drafting. Poor cap control. Failures stacked on top of failure, disappointment year after year. And, really, not a damn thing to show for it. The Vikings may be the only team trending up; Chicago is likely another year or two away from being truly competitive, Detroit is old and devoid of any real talent.
Lap-fallers is the biggest reason for the Packers success over the past 25 years.
It all seems to boil down to we perform better when behind or as underdogs...and we continue to fail when ahead or as favorites in key games.
This is a lack of killer instinct from MM ...he just doesn't know how to step on a throat.
That doesn't mean we would be better off without him...but it does mean we are leaving Championships on the table, in my opinion.
And I'd bet dollars to donuts this is the bug under Aarons saddle as well.
TT and MM have certainly earned the right to depart on their own terms. They've been very good at what they do and represented the Packers well over the years. So they aren't going anywhere.
That being said, if I were to think about what would be best for the franchise, I do think a change is warranted. This team and its approach has just gotten stale...as a fan this was the least enjoyable year in some time. They've had injuries before & they've had tough losses before, but this was the first year I can remember under MM where the team seemed apathetic at times. The big risk of change, of course, is that you take a major step backwards. Who knows if Eliot Wolf will be good as a GM or some hot assistant good as a HC?
So I'll throw out this dream scenario, which again, will never happen, but that's what message boards are for.
TT replaced with Schneider. Obviously this has been opined about before, but I think this would help GB. TT could stay on as a scout or consultant if he wanted since he seems to get tremendous enjoyment from that. Schneider obviously would still bring the draft & develop philosophy but also bring some energy and aggressiveness that this team needs right now.
MM replaced with Nick Saban. Never will happen, but I think Saban is the second best coach in America behind only Belichick. Saban has nothing left to prove in college and his experience in Miami probably eats away at him. While he's resisted moving before, I think there's a big difference when the Tennessee Titans come knocking vs. the Green Bay Packers with Aaron Rodgers at QB.
It won't happen, and again, TT and MM deserved to be treated with dignity and write their own endings in GB. But if that happened, I really believe GB would win at least 2 more Super Bowls over the next 5 years.
pkr_north posted:i look at what happened to the eagles once andy left. They wanted to go that extra pinch, instead they put the franchise back 10 years. be careful what you wish for
Actually, the best example is the Chargers and Marty Schottenheimer (ironically MM's mentor). He won in the regular season--both in Cleveland and San Diego--but never took a team to the Super Bowl.
In 2007, after a 14-2 season he was fired---because the Chargers didn't want to "waste Phillip Rivers' best years" and because Schottenheimer was seen as never being able to get to the Super Bowl.
Well, 9 years later Rivers is still QB ---but the Chargers spiraled down every year after Schotttenheimer was fired and finished this year 4-12, the dregs of the NFL.
The only team in recent memory that changed coaches because their prior coach couldn't get to the Super Bowl was Tampa Bay, where Gruden took a Dungy built team and won a Super Bowl his first year. Of course, after that things spiraled downhill and now Tampa Bay is like San Diego--the dregs of the NFL.
If the Packers fired MM, I assure you his phone would be ringing off the hook with offers.
MM ain't going anywhere.
It's time to take a small break & work toward the draft & build for 2016
Jacksonville firing Tom Coughlin didn't pan out so well for the Jags either.
"If the Packers fired MM, I assure you his phone would be ringing off the hook with offers."
Without a doubt.
When the Jets fired Rex I bet his phone rang a lot.
I guess McCarthy will be resigning soon.
I wonder what "sources" are saying this. I'm sure McCarthy would love to have TT bring in a veteran starter, but that doesn't mean he's "fed up" or ready to quit over it. Just more manufactured controversy from Bob, as usual.
slowmo posted:pkr_north posted:i look at what happened to the eagles once andy left. They wanted to go that extra pinch, instead they put the franchise back 10 years. be careful what you wish for
Actually, the best example is the Chargers and Marty Schottenheimer (ironically MM's mentor). He won in the regular season--both in Cleveland and San Diego--but never took a team to the Super Bowl.
In 2007, after a 14-2 season he was fired---because the Chargers didn't want to "waste Phillip Rivers' best years" and because Schottenheimer was seen as never being able to get to the Super Bowl.
Well, 9 years later Rivers is still QB ---but the Chargers spiraled down every year after Schotttenheimer was fired and finished this year 4-12, the dregs of the NFL.
The only team in recent memory that changed coaches because their prior coach couldn't get to the Super Bowl was Tampa Bay, where Gruden took a Dungy built team and won a Super Bowl his first year. Of course, after that things spiraled downhill and now Tampa Bay is like San Diego--the dregs of the NFL.
Another, more recent example is John Fox. He coached the Broncos to 4 straight AFC West Titles between 2011 & 2014 (just like MM coached the Pack to 4 straight NFC North Titles during those same years). Fox even led the Broncos to the Super Bowl after the 2013 season, just 2 years ago.
I don't think Elway/Denver regret letting Fox go and hiring Kubiak in his place.
For the record, I don't think MM should be fired.
I also don't think it is outrageous to contemplate the possibility that he might need to be replaced.
The example you cited makes it clear that talent can make a mediocre coach look better (as Kubiak generally has been in his career). If GB mortgaged the future like Denver does, then I might agree that most coaches could step and do it. Teams like GB and NE combine quality coaching with quality talent for long term consistency, not just sign a Pro Bowl roster with mediocre coaches that will be dismantled in two years. I will take a good coaching and consistency any day, McCarthy provides that.
bvan posted:For some reason, I like the pot
me too
Grave Digger posted:The example you cited makes it clear that talent can make a mediocre coach look better (as Kubiak generally has been in his career). If GB mortgaged the future like Denver does, then I might agree that most coaches could step and do it. Teams like GB and NE combine quality coaching with quality talent for long term consistency, not just sign a Pro Bowl roster with mediocre coaches that will be dismantled in two years. I will take a good coaching and consistency any day, McCarthy provides that.
Kubiak got to the playoffs with the Texans and his QB was Matt Schaub, so he may well be a mediocre coach, but maybe not. I truly don't know. I actually think Wade Phillips deserves a lot of credit as the DC myself.
Anyway, Kubiak, mediocre as he is, has now been to as many Super Bowls as MM in fewer seasons.
As far as Denver mortgaging its future, wasn't that what was being said 2 seasons ago? This is their 2nd Super Bowl in 3 seasons.
I'll take multiple Super Bowls over consistent finishes short of the Super Bowl myself.
That said, I hope the Panthers or Cardinals win in Santa Clara.
@MichaelDavSmith
Since the 2005 season the Patriots are 10-3 in home playoff games, 1-2 in Super Bowls and 1-4 in road playoff games.
Home team controls the coaches radio's.
Grave Digger posted:I wonder what "sources" are saying this. I'm sure McCarthy would love to have TT bring in a veteran starter, but that doesn't mean he's "fed up" or ready to quit over it. Just more manufactured controversy from Bob, as usual.
Micheal Rodney?
Has he won more SBs than McCarthy? Bill Callahan took a team to a SB, which until he actually wins is basically all Kubiak is. Before Denver he was 61-64 career and this 12-4 season Denver just snuck his career avg over .500. He's been a pretty mediocre head coach generally in his career.
Denver's model is not sustainable. Until they actually win multiple SBs, or even 1 SB, the salary cap issues they face won't be worth it.
From McGinn's article on past SuperBowls. I think the Packers have some nice guys running the organization and team but I think they are starting to feel the need to be more cut throat. I think we're getting to the sausage and laws stage of things.
■ Thirteen years earlier, I entered the locker room quickly and was among three or four writers talking to general manager Ron Wolf. He was shell shocked. Denver had just stunned Green Bay, 31-24.
In possibly the best quote I have ever heard, Wolf would say, "We're a one-year wonder, just a fart in the wind."
It was the last Super Bowl for Wolf, Brett Favre and just about everyone else on that team.
If Denver played by the rules then they probably wouldn't have been a one year wonder.
I'd bet RW thinks he owned a large share of fault.
I always wondered what Wolf could've built if he didn't run into the salary cap era. It really ended it for him as a GM.
Point being I'm sure TT and MM are seeing the realization of wasted talent.
Bob still taking shots at MM, comparing Carolina's scheme to ours
After this season I think it's warranted. I really can't get over the thought that MM may be the only offensive coach worth two ****s on that team. This season was so bad that The Wizard and the defensive staff look like ****ing gurus.
This season was a special kind of suck.
I do remember that when we played Panther's an article lauding how they made drastic adjustments to their offense when they lost Benjamin in camp. Of course the comparison is that the same thing happened to us & we made no such adjustments.
Why would we have made drastic adjustments? MM believes in the philosophy and scheme on offense. Also, there was the thought and expectation that Adams and Cobb would keep the Offense on track.
The reason why the Panthers made "drastic" adjustments, is that behind Benjamin, there was Philly Brown and a bunch of nobody's. Players that probably didn't even know the base offense, let alone any adjustments.
So the team that makes adjustments is in the Super Bowl but the guys who just went "Eh, good enough, we do what we do" are sitting at home the last couple of weeks, and people are defending the guys sitting at home?
They're not in the Super Bowl because they adjusted to life without Kelvin Benjamin. Cam's passing and the running game would have been the same with or without Benjamin. The difference in this team isn't that his injury made them change for the better, it's that their QB is playing the best football of his career. If Cam was still Cam from last year then the adjustments they made would have been for nothing.
The Packers didn't just have to adjust to life without Jordy, they also had to deal with their #3 WR slumping, their #4 WR out for the year, their #1 TE slumping, their #2 TE getting suspended and missing most of the year with injury, tons of OLine injuries including ones that guys played through, an overweight slumping #1 RB, and a QB with an apparent injury that is still a mystery. I think McCarthy adjusted about as well as any coach could, they were closer to a return appearance in the NFCC then they probably should have been. McCarthy wasn't just dealing with an injured WR.
FLPACKER posted:I do remember that when we played Panther's an article lauding how they made drastic adjustments to their offense when they lost Benjamin in camp. Of course the comparison is that the same thing happened to us & we made no such adjustments.
In the end it's...other teams play their Janis'es and we don't.
His awesome skills aren't needed because he doesn't have a PHD in receiver tree studies..
Hungry5 posted:Speed is not a skill.
Arguably it is...and specifically how it is applied on the football field to maximize your opportunities against an opponent.
Whether it's to put you in a position to high point a Hail Mary like Janis did...or whether it's used to get the opposition to over-commit out of respect for consistent speed.
Raw speed doesn't do that...but speed honed as a receiver skill takes advantage of an opponent.
----
Speed Is A Skill
Speed is a skill. The ability to take advantage of the potential of one’s body, and do so consistently, is a highly technical skill. As coaches and athletes we often allude to this concept when talking about speed development, but rarely do we discuss how important this statement is and what effects it has on training and performance.
When watching skilled athletes run at full speed, there is commonality in the power and fluidity that these athletes display. They run smoothly and effortlessly. And they run the same way, every time. It is this consistency in the patterning of their movements, the skill of running fast, that creates that ‘Wow’ factor when you see them in action. Depending on your level of experience in speed development, you may or may not know instantly what these athletes are doing that engenders such awe, but you know it’s there. And even though we can’t bring every athlete to elite levels, we can teach them the skill of running fast, where they can apply it to their own particular sport in the context of their own particular level of inherent ability.
Herschel posted:So the team that makes adjustments is in the Super Bowl but the guys who just went "Eh, good enough, we do what we do" are sitting at home the last couple of weeks, and people are defending the guys sitting at home?
If only MM, would have made adjustments, we'd be in the SB.
The Packers have a QB, (one of the best in the game), the Panthers have a huge RB, that can throw, sometimes accurately, sometimes not. The adjustments they made were to have the ball in Cam's hands more, and it's easy to make when your 255 # QB, is running over LB's. I guess MM should have made the adjustment and have AR keep the rock in his hands, and see what happens when AR tries to run over LB's. If only MM would have done that, we'd be in the SB with Hundley starting, and MM would be a geenyous.
There were lots of adjustments that could have been made, he even started making some in the playoffs, moving Cobb around more, for example.
The Panthers simply did a better job of adjusting than the Packers this year, and it's paying off. They're in the Super Bowl with Michael Oher at LT and no real wideouts. How? They adjusted to enhance their strengths and minimize their weaknesses on offense. The Packers this year just stuck their heads in the sand and said "we have no weaknesses", for the most part.
