Packers' offense thrills, then gets predictable in win
Piece by Demovsky about the (inexplicable) offensive shift by MM. Wish he'd stick with the varied personnel groupings and formations.
I actually thought AR was much improved tonight...Jordy had a couple brain farts and a couple amazing catches. There were a couple of ill-advised throws by AR...the one INT wasn't his fault...the second pick was, albeit a hell of a play by Jenkins. There was one almost picked he threw behind Duh, and one that was may over Duh's head he let go.
Run D is great, pass D leaves much to be desired...even when Randall and Shields were healthy. ILB play is a big difference maker. Gebins to them for the draft and development of Ryan and Martinez...and even Joe Thomas has had his moments.
Henry posted:Is anyone else wondering why they can get away from a successful game plan after one quarter/half on a consistent basis? This is the heart of the problem and "analysis" needs to stop and leading needs to begin again.
Yes, I wonder as well. We have Lacy. They can start by removing every play from the book that has our RBs removed from the field for either Cobb or Montgomery in the backfield. They can go there if both Lacy and Starks are out. No need to get cute, be powerful.
Schum is a bum. I don't know who's cornflakes Masthay pissed in but get over it GBP.
GBP1 posted:YooperPackfan posted:GBP1 posted:
Negatives
MM should have challenged the second INT
All turnovers are reviewed so technically it was challenged
If it was reviewed, it was sure quick. The ball noticeably moved when it hit the ground.
It was, yet another, Ed Hochuli moment!
+ Cobb, Lacy, Ripkowski, O Line, D Line, Pass Rush( Fackrell, especially) Secondary
- Special Teams, Schum, Richard Rodgers
PackFoo posted:I actually thought AR was much improved tonight...Jordy had a couple brain farts and a couple amazing catches. There were a couple of ill-advised throws by AR...the one INT wasn't his fault...the second pick was, albeit a hell of a play by Jenkins. There was one almost picked he threw behind Duh, and one that was may over Duh's head he let go.
Run D is great, pass D leaves much to be desired...even when Randall and Shields were healthy. ILB play is a big difference maker. Gebins to them for the draft and development of Ryan and Martinez...and even Joe Thomas has had his moments.
If Shields is healthy, the pass defense is much better, but you can't complain too much about last night. No blown coverages at all it seemed and even the plays when they might have gotten beat (the play where Manning overthrew the guy down the seam) players were executing the correct assignments - Ryan just got beat.
If RichRod and Starks make catches on the 4th quarter TD pass and the earlier screen (and Nelson catches the richochet interception), Aaron Rodgers ends up with about 40 more yards passing and 4 TDs. If that happens, a stat line of 26-45, 300, 4 TD 1 Int. looks good. Rodgers didn't play to an A level, but he played well enough to win.
+ That first drive showed what the offense could and should be. Balanced, controlled, working the middle of the field, pounding the rock, using players correctly, etc.
- McCarthy and Rodgers seem dissatisfied with that style of offense. As soon as they get a lead it seems they go back to the high risk/high reward type offense rather than the low risk/grinding style that they opted for to start the game. High risk/high reward is great when everyone is ON and you're up by 21, but when Nelson or Rodgers or Cobb or whoever is off and you're only clinging to a 7 to 10 point lead then the risk goes up tremendously. They probably lead the league in "points left on the field" this season. Teams have played it safe against this offense for years, opting for a bend-don't-break style, but now it seems they are opting for their own high risk/high reward scheme and they're getting burned. Rather than fight fire with fire, McCarthy needs to take what the defense gives him. Cool down that boom/bust defense with more backbreaking 16 play drives.
Yes, in post-game presser MM was asked about using so many different skill players on first driver, he kept referring to it as the "old format". I got the feeling that the obvious follow-up question that reporters wanted to ask was "why didn't you continue to do it", but no one had the guts to ask.
Bottom line: passing offense remains broken with no apparent fix in sight. More than a little disturbing that with as much time as the OL gave AR last night he still struggled finding open receivers. Don't know if he's not taking what's there or there's not much there but it's clearly not working,
El-Ka-Bong posted:(but I thought what Bulaga did was a penalty?)
Play wasn't dead.
michiganjoe posted:Bottom line: passing offense remains broken with no apparent fix in sight. More than a little disturbing that with as much time as the OL gave AR last night he still struggled finding open receivers. Don't know if he's not taking what's there or there's not much there but it's clearly not working,
You hit the nail on the head Joe.
Rodgers is last, read L-A-S-T, in completion % among NFL quarterbacks.
The first step to overcoming a problem is admitting there is one. MM is still in deep denial.
Can't think of a reason why Schum isn't cut today and replaced with anyone else. There can be no drop off bringing in someone from the street.
A win is good.
Bakhtiari is really stepping up after his new contract. he's not a freak, but he's just getting it done against very good defenders. Taylor is the line's weakest link, by far, and he's been average. this group is playing tremendously well. I love Tretter's athleticism at center.
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Schum - Where's one-balled Josh when we need him?
Qadry Nelson after the beautiful TD catch.
Rodgers/McCarthy after the scripted plays.
Burnett/Clinton-Dix: That late damned garbage TD to Beckham cost me money as I bet on the Packers containing him.
I wasn't a fan of Masthay the last couple years, but he was better than Schum is. At least when Masthay would shank one he would come back the next time with a good one. I wouldn't care if we had a punter that out-kicked his coverage, I'd put more faith on Janis making a play to keep the net average over 40 yards than see a punter who can only punt it 30 yards with no return. Schum just flat out sucks, you don't see a Punter consistently UNDER kick his coverage.
I just don't get what it was they saw in this guy, his performance as a starter last season was below average.
YATittle posted:-
Adams cost us a TD by not getting set on the toss that Cobb got.
Cobb wasn't set either.
FLPACKER posted:I just don't get what it was they saw in this guy, his performance as a starter last season was below average.
Which guy?
No idea what's going on with Starks. He looks like a howler monkey on crack looking for an escape route in a burning high rise. He's in such a big damn hurry on everything he does. On running plays he instantly plows into a guard before the blocking develops then bounces outside. He tries catching passes 5 yards before the ball gets to him. Remember the time Fred Flinstone was bowling and his bowling ball started disintegrating as it went down the lane and it was just bouncing all over and rocks and pebbles were flying off in every damn direction until it finally became a puff of gravel dust? That's Starks when he actually does get into a little space. The play last night on the final drive. He catches it, turns around and just coughs the ball up with zero contact?!?!?!
Seriously James, just chill the **** out.
+ I expected Odell Beckham and Victor Cruz to run roughshod over the secondary and the DBs did a fine job of containment for most of the game. That was a pleasant surprise after watching Stefon Diggs and Marvin Jones go off on the Pack's D.
- There's a lot to be concerned about if the goal is winning a world title.
+ I've come to loathe the Giants so even though the Pack looked sloppy, any win over lucky ass Eli and company is one to be savored.
Hungry5 posted:FLPACKER posted:I just don't get what it was they saw in this guy, his performance as a starter last season was below average.
Which guy?
Punter
Grave Digger posted:I wasn't a fan of Masthay the last couple years, but he was better than Schum is. At least when Masthay would shank one he would come back the next time with a good one. I wouldn't care if we had a punter that out-kicked his coverage, I'd put more faith on Janis making a play to keep the net average over 40 yards than see a punter who can only punt it 30 yards with no return. Schum just flat out sucks, you don't see a Punter consistently UNDER kick his coverage.
It's like he has a fungo bat for a right leg.
Henry posted:Can't think of a reason why Schum isn't cut today and replaced with anyone else. There can be no drop off bringing in someone from the street.
Masthay is still unemployed. Seriously...he could be no worse. Ditto Mortadella.
++++
Cobb looked like he had something to prove and made a number of plays
Pass rush was excellent and LB play was good (except for blown coverage on TE that should have been a long TD)
OL continues to step up and play well. Bak taking his game to the next level.
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If MM calls any more stupid inverted wishbone plays with Monty or Cobb I am going to lose it. Worthless and wasted plays.
The punter has to go, right? He's worst than Mathstay.
Why are Monty and Abby not getting more reps?
Starks had a bad game. He's been a non factor all season.
Overall, offense still not clicking but they are 3-1 with a big game coming up against the 4-1 Cowgirls.
Rusty posted:++ The X4 Elite proved their geenyus intelect once again as Odell caught over 300 yards tonight as the Giants simply whooped the Pack...
Oh.
Glad to be wrong on that one. Defense did a great job and really deserved a more decisive win.
ChilliJon posted:No idea what's going on with Starks. He looks like a howler monkey on crack looking for an escape route in a burning high rise. He's in such a big damn hurry on everything he does. On running plays he instantly plows into a guard before the blocking develops then bounces outside. He tries catching passes 5 yards before the ball gets to him. Remember the time Fred Flinstone was bowling and his bowling ball started disintegrating as it went down the lane and it was just bouncing all over and rocks and pebbles were flying off in every damn direction until it finally became a puff of gravel dust? That's Starks when he actually does get into a little space. The play last night on the final drive. He catches it, turns around and just coughs the ball up with zero contact?!?!?!
Seriously James, just chill the **** out.
haha....nice description Chilli
artis posted:Rusty posted:++ The X4 Elite proved their geenyus intelect once again as Odell caught over 300 yards tonight as the Giants simply whooped the Pack...
Oh.
Glad to be wrong on that one. Defense did a great job and really deserved a more decisive win.
Ditto. I was wrong as well.
Henry posted:El-Ka-Bong posted:(but I thought what Bulaga did was a penalty?)
Play wasn't dead.
No, I mean plowing into the pile in order to push the runner forward. I thought on offense the only way you can help the ball carrier is by blocking for him.
I think it's been a couple years now, but the rule allows you to push a runner forward, but does not allow you to pull him forward.
+++ First drive. 16 plays, taking what the D gives, grinding it out. Demoralizing the D.
++Fackrell came to play, as did Thomas. Our ILBs look like keepers.
++Cobb. His catch and run to get the first down late was a thing of will and beauty.
++Rip maul play. Showed how much Rip can do and showed how much our Oline overpowered the D.
+++Oline. Getting the job done, and Lacy taking advantage.
---Drives after the first two. Why oh why do MM and AR abandon the long-drive, grind-it-out style that works for the go-for-broke low-reward offense?
---STs. Bring back Ginger. Have AR punt. Anything but Chum.
We won, but it was more difficult than it had to be. Happy, but not ecstatic.
Hungry5 posted:Rodgers was 9 of 14 with a TD until the tipped ball INT. On the return he was hit (NYG called for unnecessary roughness). After that he was 14 of 31 and missed some throws bad. We'll never hear if he was rattled or not, but I wouldn't discount the possibility.
During that first drive, I thought we were finally seeing the old AR - short, quick passes and some YAC. When he threw that pick off of Jordy's hands, I was worried about how he would respond. I am not so sure he was hit very hard, I think his ego was hurt a bit more. I think this guy is pressing because for so long he was near perfect and last year, perhaps because of his receiver play, he was not so perfect and accurate. As he has demonstrated time and time again, it does not take much to create a "chip on his shoulder", and there remains one now that he can't seem to totally shake.
Defense was obviously a plus, as was the way Lacy was pounding the ball, and the oline just pushing people around.
On the questionably negative side - is it just me or does anyone else think that Jordy has lost a step? I've never had a major knee injury, and I know he's just about 14 months removed from his, but is speed typically lost when an ACL injury is incurred? I just don't see him getting much separation compared to 2014 when he was blowing by people. I keep remembering that clip someone posted of him running up the field to block for another receiver on a TD catch and run, and he was moving by people like they were standing still.
Jordy never really was all that quick, he's usually just really good at setting up routes and he's a long strider. He's lost a bit of speed, maybe he even doesn't quite trust his knee also, but when the offense falls back in to the same stuff defenders have seen for years over and over, it gives the defense an advantage.
It'll be another year before he regains his speed- if he does at all. Jordy didn't see the same "doctor" as AP...
House said he thought he was 80% of what he used to practice against, if that means anything.
+The entire defense
+The entire OL - who needs Sitton?
+Cobb
-Rodgers: WTF is wrong with him? This isn't just "we were spoiled with how good he was and now he's just down to just playing great". He's missing easy passes like screens and dump offs. With the kind of time he was getting, he should have been better. He plays average, the Packers win by 3 TDs. Crazy to think he actually may have dragged them down yesterday.
-Starks: Wow was he bad. Tried to bounce everything outside and it rarely worked. Lacy averaged 7.4 yards on 11 carries, Starks 2.8 yards on 12 carries. Hard to believe the blocking was that much worse.
-Punter: Is it too late to bring back Masthay?
PackFoo posted:Henry posted:Can't think of a reason why Schum isn't cut today and replaced with anyone else. There can be no drop off bringing in someone from the street.
Masthay is still unemployed. Seriously...he could be no worse. Ditto Mortadella.
If you are going to change at this point, I think it has to be Masthay. He could come in and hold for FG/PATs and they wouldn't miss a beat. Other than that, don't do anything to mess up the snapper/holder/kicker unit.
RochNyFan posted:Hungry5 posted:Rodgers was 9 of 14 with a TD until the tipped ball INT. On the return he was hit (NYG called for unnecessary roughness). After that he was 14 of 31 and missed some throws bad. We'll never hear if he was rattled or not, but I wouldn't discount the possibility.
...snip...
When he threw that pick off of Jordy's hands, I was worried about how he would respond. I am not so sure he was hit very hard, I think his ego was hurt a bit more.
...snip...
This is possible too. In the game thread I commented that an angry Rodgers is a dangerous Rodgers. I didn't expect him to get the yips after that play.
The question is the chip on his shoulder going to emerge as a stimulant or is a pissed off gene going to prod him back to greatness or WTF happened in Denver last year.....this guy isn't the same.
I trust he will and can get it back but truly it has been awhile.
Much like Goldie I miss him.
Well it was a demoralizing chain of events for anyone: He fires a TD to put his team up 14-0 only to have it called back by a penalty, then throws a catchable ball but it is tipped for an INT.
I think until that point and including the Detroit game he was getting his groove back and then that happened and it did rattle him a bit, but overall he is getting on track again. I'm calling it a speed bump. It is still early in the season for an offense that had no real pre-season.
If the team gets no contributions from Montgomery and Abracadabra they are left playing with two reliable receivers, one of whom is coming off an ACL surgery. Add to that the declining play of AR and this team is going nowhere. The defense certainly looks very good, but it isn't Broncos good, as an example, so not enough to carry them to a SB championship.
The failure to provide AR with another weapon looms large.