Gutey and Wide Receiver

phaedrusMember

Some statements made about the Packers at wide receiver, if true, require that in a big way Gutey does not know what the hell he is doing. What follows is my reasoning and I look forward to thoughts/opinions.

One post I saw said that we have need at WR as none have been selected in an early round in a while. Others have expressed the same general idea. We have no legit #2 and we need to target wide receiver.

But, how do such statements impact what Gutey did with the draft the year before last?

He drafted WR's in rounds 4, 5, and 6. If the consensus is that wideouts drafted that late cannot be bonafide #1 or #2 wideouts, he absolutely wasted three draft choices.

I cannot see that as feasible. What is the alternative? He hoped to get one or two legit #3's?

The only possibility I see that can justify the selections made are that our GM understands that picking 3 receivers at those rounds will generally return at least one #1 or #2 wideout and possibly in addition one who is a #2 or #3.

I see no alternative to this assuming he knows what he is doing.

Generally, receivers do not blossom until their second year. With receivers drafted at rounds 4-6, I think it is more likely such a receiver will not blossom his first year. As an example, he may have come from a smaller program and be in need of more training (MVS).

If this is true, this means the jury must be out. We cannot possibly know yet if the selections were a bust or not and by bust I mean that none of them ever qualifies as a solid #2 at least.

MVS shows possibility and I guess ESB does as well though his progress is of course slowed by injury.

Unless Gutey does not know what he is doing to the extent of throwing away three draft choices (because, after all, a good receiver must be drafted higher, some say), I think the only thing that makes sense is a wait and see approach.

Second year returns must be in and assuming Gute knew what he was doing with those selections and assuming he was not real unlucky with his picks, we will be just fine. MVS will at worst be a solid #2 and EQB may as well.

9/10/199:04 AM

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EC PackMember

Yeah, we could have had a first round WR like Treadwell.

I'm less concerned about their draft slot vs production.

9/10/199:07 AM

Grave DiggerMember

Graham, MVS and Allison are competent contributors in the passing game. Gute had positions, like OLB, that had very few to no competent players at when he took over. Gotta prioritize the rebuild, picking a WR high just wasn't a bad enough need to overshadow OLB, CB, and S in the draft and OLB, S, and OL in FA. I expect, now that we're solid at almost all those positions that WR will be up for a refresh in the 2020 draft. I think OT and CB (depending on how King and Jackson develop) are bigger needs, but WR should definitely be in the discussion for R1 or R2. 2020 will be a STACKED year at WR, so I have no doubt we will come out of the draft with a starter opposite Adams.

9/10/1910:02 AM

The CrusherMember

Like GD said, we had higher priorities like OLB, S and OL. What I am encouraged about is Gutes picks/free agents are looking very solid so far. Scott almost singlehandedly won us the Chicago game.

I am sure he will address WR, Rome wasn't built in a day.

9/10/1910:09 AM

The HecklerMember

Phaedrus, no disrespect but I totally disagree that Gute doesn't know what he is doing. The roster he inherited lacked depth everywhere and it was in desperate need of geting help on the defensive side of the ball. I would bet that on his way to early draft board WR is listed pretty high on the priority list. The dude is aggressive and we are just going to have to be patient sometimes. It sucks I agree but he can't build it all at once.

9/10/1910:19 AM

TschmackMember

Tyreek Hill, Stefon Diggs, Adam Thielen, Keenan Allen, TJ Hilton, and Antonio Brown would like a word with you.

Paging Donald Driver!

9/10/1910:19 AM

phaedrusMember

The Heckler posted:
Phaedrus, no disrespect but I totally disagree that Gute doesn't know what he is doing. The roster he inherited lacked depth everywhere and it was in desperate need of geting help on the defensive side of the ball. I would bet that on his way to early draft board WR is listed pretty high on the priority list. The dude is aggressive and we are just going to have to be patient sometimes. It sucks I agree but he can't build it all at once.

Hey Heckler,

I am on the side of believing he does know what he is doing. My point was that if his strategy is that he is pretty sure none of the 3 WR's would amount to much (at least one being at least a 2), THEN it's poor use of draft.

9/10/1912:41 PM

HenryYou rang?

I’m on the side of not giving a shit because it’s year two.

9/10/1912:50 PM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

I fully expect that MVS will be a legit #2 this year as he continues to learn to play to his speed.

9/10/194:12 PM

Pikes PeakMember

Me too, I hope that comes soon.

9/10/194:16 PM

MichiganPacker2Member

I'm on record as saying they need to invest some draft capital to get a complement for Adams - I think they really need a slot receiver in the mold of what a healthy Cobb would be.

However, I think it may be less important to try to have high-level draft picks at WR in the MLF offense compared to MM. MM relied on guys to win 1 x 1 matchups and didn't really scheme guys open. That works when you invest high round picks at WR and have a lot of depth to force the dime and nickel CBs to cover guys who are more physically talented (Nelson, Jennings, and Cobb were all round 2 and James Jones and Finley were round 3). Driver was a 7th rounder, but mainly because he was more of a track guy in college. He was a tremendous athlete that had to learn how to play football. Driver jumped 7'6" in the high jump. The guys we have now behind Adams are not the athletic freak that Driver was, but if you scheme guys open better you can get by with low and mid-round guys.

As long as Gute sticks to his board and doesn't draft guys to high because of need, I think he'll do well.

9/10/195:04 PM

ChilliJonI hate the Vikings!

I'd like to see Kumerow get some snaps before anyone starts trading away draft capital.

9/10/195:24 PM

PakrzFREEZE!

Agree on Kumerow. What does that kid have to do to get some playing time?

More Kumerow. More Tonyan. More Jones.

9/10/195:50 PM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

It's been 1 game. On the road. Against a division opponent. Who has a top 5 D. With another game coming up against a division opponent.

I doubt they emptied the cupboard in week 1.

I fully expect lots of reps for Kumerow, Tonyan, Jones as the season progresses.

9/10/1910:01 PM

BorisSooper Jeeenyious

Where will Vikings D end up? I'd guess top 10 is a good bet.

9/10/1910:31 PM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

I don't know. ATL outgained them and held TOP. The difference in the game was the ATL miscues - blocked punt and turnovers.

9/10/1910:53 PM

"We"-Ka-BongYou ungrateful biscuit eating son of a bitch

phaedrus posted:

He drafted WR's in rounds 4, 5, and 6. If the consensus is that wideouts drafted that late cannot be bonafide #1 or #2 wideouts, he absolutely wasted three draft choices.

Where in thin air did you find this consensus?

9/11/191:46 AM

phaedrusMember

El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:
phaedrus posted:

He drafted WR's in rounds 4, 5, and 6. If the consensus is that wideouts drafted that late cannot be bonafide #1 or #2 wideouts, he absolutely wasted three draft choices.

Where in thin air did you find this consensus?

It is a hypothetical (notice the word if).

9/11/196:27 AM

Blair KielGOOD OL' FAKE BLAIR KIEL - My Hood? nice Henry. Fuck You!

Don’t trip while you back track.

9/11/196:48 AM

BorisSooper Jeeenyious

Antonio Brown was a 5th round draft pick.

You can find football players at any round of the draft including UDFA

9/11/197:17 AM

"We"-Ka-BongYou ungrateful biscuit eating son of a bitch

If the consensus is wide receivers should be shorter than 5 foot tall, did Gutey make a mistake not drafting Danny DeVito?

9/11/197:45 AM

HenryYou rang?

Bilbo down the seam.

Short, fat, hairy . . .

9/11/198:17 AM

Pikes PeakMember

El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:
If the consensus is wide receivers should be shorter than 5 foot tall, did Gutey make a mistake not drafting Danny DeVito?

DeVito has no upside.

9/11/198:20 AM

justanotherpackerfanMember

Shouldn’t Devito be on the taxi squad?

9/11/199:26 AM

michiganjoeMember

Know a lot more about where the team is at WR after the year. If none of the players behind Adams steps up then obviously it's going to be a relatively high priority to address.

9/11/199:27 AM

BorisSooper Jeeenyious

It's a high priority to address today.

Hopefully 1 or 2 of the young guys can step up.

Rodgers isn't getting any younger.

9/11/1910:21 AM

Dr._BobMember

Pikes Peak posted:
El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:
If the consensus is wide receivers should be shorter than 5 foot tall, did Gutey make a mistake not drafting Danny DeVito?
DeVito has no upside.

But a lot of backside.

9/11/1911:22 AM

PackdogMember

Boris posted:
It's a high priority to address today.
Hopefully 1 or 2 of the young guys can step up.

Yup. Have high hopes for MVS to step up his game. As for the 3, 4, 5 ... seem ok there.

As with the rest of the new offense, will probably take a few weeks to settle in ....and playing tough defenses like the Bears and Minny in wk 1 and wk 2 doesn't expedite the process.

Seeing Allan Robinson the other night reminded me of when he chose the Bares over the Pack. Damn, he sure would be a nice second fiddle to Davante .

9/11/1912:21 PM

heywardKaty Perry is bouncy

Boris posted:
Antonio Brown was a 5th round draft pick.
You can find football players at any round of the draft including UDFA

The odds of finding a good one are a lot higher in the early rounds

9/11/1912:48 PM

Blair KielGOOD OL' FAKE BLAIR KIEL - My Hood? nice Henry. Fuck You!

The upside to Danny DiVito is that no other man has to sleep with Rhea Pearlman.

9/11/1912:55 PM

YATittleMember

heyward posted:
Boris posted:
Antonio Brown was a 5th round draft pick.
You can find football players at any round of the draft including UDFA
The odds of finding a good one are a lot higher in the early rounds

Lots of high round busts at that position.

9/11/191:08 PM

Grave DiggerMember

Of the top 50 WRs in receptions in 2018 the average round drafted was 3. Unless there's a game changer like Julio Jones or OBJ available in R1, it appears to be wiser to wait until Day 2 to draft a starting WR.

9/11/191:55 PM