Charles Woodson absolutely, positively has to get there on first vote.
The 2021 @profootballhof Gold Jacket Semifinalists! pic.twitter.com/YzkV9y8jic
— NFL Network (@nflnetwork) November 24, 2020
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Does Leroy even bother to get excited? He got so close, again, last year.
If I was him, I'd be like don't even tell me anything unless I am IN.
I know....Leroy needs to get in. It's complete bullshit he isn't. Said this last year....
- Can you tell the story of the NFL WITHOUT Leroy Butler??
Answer is a resounding "NO" - That 1996 defense, while most talk about Reggie & rightfully so, the man at Safety was so instrumental to the success of their defense. They broke some '85 Bear defense records. Nobody ever talks about that except us Packer fans.
Peyton & Woodson are as close to first-ballot locks as you will ever see.
IIRC, he's the only all decades 90's player to not be in the HOF. F'ing ridic.
Megatron would have been a first ballot guy if he had played another 4-5 years.
@Boris posted:I know....Leroy needs to get in. It's complete bullshit he isn't. Said this last year....
- Can you tell the story of the NFL WITHOUT Leroy Butler??
Answer is a resounding "NO" - That 1996 defense, while most talk about Reggie & rightfully so, the man at Safety was so instrumental to the success of their defense. They broke some '85 Bear defense records. Nobody ever talks about that except us Packer fans.
Peyton & Woodson are as close to first-ballot locks as you will ever see.
It would also be appropriate for Woodson and Manning to go into the NFL HOF together as a bookend to their college days when Charles Woodson beat Peyton for the Heismann that year.
LeRoy may have a chance this year given that I don't see anyone else that is an absolute lock other than that probably MegaTron is highly likely (although I thought last year's class was relatively weak after Polamalu). However, I think LeRoy's shot may be next year as there are almost no surefire HOFers becoming eligible next year. The new possibilities next year are headed by A. Boldin, V. Wolfork, M. Williams, S. Smith, D. Ware, R. Mathis, A. Johnson, and T. Romo. No one on that list is someone you immediately think of as one of the all-time greats.
https://hofexperiences.com/blo...ear-eligible-players
LeRoy better get in during the next 2 years because the 2023 first-time eligible list has 3-4 surefire guys: Joe Thomas, Dwight Freeney, James Harrison, and D. Revis.
2024 has two locks: J. Peppers and A. Gates and A. Luck will be an interesting discussion.
@ilcuqui posted:What @Boris said above.
If John Lynch and/or Rodney Harrison get in before LeRoy...
Neither could carry Butler’s jock but are members in good standing of the ex-player media industrial complex. I’m sure Peter King and his ilk have already started their lobbying.
Yes. I'm sure they'll get the Howie Long boost.
I see 4 names as locks. Johnson, Manning, Ward and C Woodson.
I was surprised to see Boselli is not in. I guess a short dominant career doesn't work too well for linemen.
@grignon posted:I see 4 names as locks. Johnson, Manning, Ward and C Woodson.
I was surprised to see Boselli is not in. I guess a short dominant career doesn't work too well for linemen.
I agree on Boselli, but as you say lineman don't have counting stats to really measure just how dominant they were.
Boselli only played 6 years (plus 3 games of a 7th) and only started more than 12 games 4 times. No Super Bowl appearances.
The comps are Terrell Davis (only played more than 8 games 4 times) and Gale Sayers (5 seasons of more than 2 games). Davis was the best player on 2 Super Bowl winners and Sayers was a transcendent talent.
Boselli allowed 15.5 sacks in 91 games (about 2.5 per year). The question is how does this comparison look to Bakhtiari. I can't find all the detailed career stats, but I can find some individual seasons.
Sacks Allowed by Bakhtiari
2020 - 0
2019 - 2
2014-2018 - 16 total in 5 years
2013 - 6 sacks allowed as a rookie
Article from 2018 pre-season
https://www.pff.com/news/pro-p...-no-33-on-the-pff-50
Over the course of his career, Bakhtiari has logged 2,900 pass-blocking snaps and compared to all the tackles in the PFF era with at least 2500 pass-blocking snaps in that span, he’s allowed the ninth-fewest sacks (22), the fewest quarterback hits (16) and the fewest quarterback hurries (95), which all adds up to the fewest total pressures allowed (133). All told, he’s racked up a pass-blocking efficiency of 96.4, which is third behind only Andrew Whitworth and Joe Thomas, and puts him in what can only be described as Hall of Fame company.
If you take out Bakh's rookie year (where he wasn't awful but he did give up 6 sacks), he's given up 18 sacks in 97 games. That's in very similar territory to Boselli. The argument is that if Boselli gets in then Bakhtiari is a likely future HOFer right now, let alone if he continues at this level for another 3-4 years.
Nice gleaning of numbers, MP2. I often start down that rabbit hole and half the time forget why I even started.
The consensus is that the Packers are fortunate to have a player of Bahktiari's ability. Your post gives solid evidence of how lucky they are.
Boselli was one of the prime reasons the Jags became relevant in their second year and why they became basically irrelevant when he got his final injury.
Take a look at this pic on this tweet....Now that is fuckin cool!
Canton is calling.... 📞@CharlesWoodson || #GoPackGo || #RaiderNation pic.twitter.com/uMHVJaUNcX
— 𝙕𝙖𝙘𝙠 ³³ 🧀 (13-3) (@GoatAaronJones) January 14, 2021
@ilcuqui posted:What @Boris said above.
If John Lynch and/or Rodney Harrison get in before LeRoy...
Neither could carry Butler’s jock but are members in good standing of the ex-player media industrial complex. I’m sure Peter King and his ilk have already started their lobbying.
The one thing that could elevate both over Butler in the eyes of voters might be that they were more intimidating as hard hitters in an era where hitters were a more integral part of stopping the passing game than they are now.
That said, Butler definitely was more versatile than Lynch/Harrison. He could function as an extra undersized LB with his blitz ability, and he could also cover like a CB in a pinch as he actually played CB when he first got to the Packers. That versatility was HUGE for the Packers D.
Butler redefined the safety position in the '90's. He absolutely should be in the HOF.
@grignon posted:I see 4 names as locks. Johnson, Manning, Ward and C Woodson.
I was surprised to see Boselli is not in. I guess a short dominant career doesn't work too well for linemen.
I never thought of Hines Ward in the same class as those other 3 guys but maybe I'm just underestimating him as he was a very good player that got a couple of rings and nearly got a 3rd had his team not come up against a very hot Packers' team in 2010/11. 
@MNPackman posted:Butler redefined the safety position in the '90's. He absolutely should be in the HOF.
The sad thing is that as deserving as he is on his own merits, starting the Lambeau Leap tradition might be the thing that eventually gets him over the top.
@fightphoe93 posted:I never thought of Hines Ward in the same class as those other 3 guys but maybe I'm just underestimating him as he was a very good player that got a couple of rings and nearly got a 3rd had his team not come up against a very hot Packers' team in 2010/11.
Hines Ward might have been the best blocking WR of the modern era. They outlawed blindside blocks on DBs in large part because of him just lighting some guys up on running plays. He was a WR that DBs had their heads on a swivel looking for on every run play.
Hines Ward doesn't have the numbers necessary to get a receiver into the HoF nowadays. But a run heavy Pittsburgh team went to 3 SBs in 7 years (won 2) and has only Bettis and Polamalu in the hall. I think he gets a little love, if only because the Steelers were the only team to challenge the aughts Pats.
Ward was a really good receiver, but not really HOF material. But, he gets love from the committee because they called his name often, he went to the SB three times, and he was present and sturdy. Besides that, judging from recent inductions, who knows what the HOF Committee is looking for these days?
I remember a play once where Leroy Butler chased down a very fast receiver at like the 2 or 3 yard line after a long catch and run. He didn't have the angle and he caught the fleet footed receive from behind. The play was all heart. By the way, from what I remember, our defense kept the other team out of the end zone to save the win. Just an amazing play.
PFHOF selections are today. Here’s part of LeRoy Butler’s presentation:
The HOF Selection Committee is meeting virtually today to discuss the candidates for the #PFHOF21 Class.
— Pro Football Hall of Fame (@ProFootballHOF) January 19, 2021
Next up: Selector @PeteDougherty presented on behalf of Modern-Era Player Finalist @leap36.@packers pic.twitter.com/YsYRwahWKv
https://www.golongtd.com/p/the...life-of-leroy-butler
Excellent article by Tyler Dunne
So LeRoy invented the forward leap, but who was the first to add the twist to a seated position?
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Hines Ward might have been the best blocking WR of the modern era. They outlawed blindside blocks on DBs in large part because of him just lighting some guys up on running plays. He was a WR that DBs had their heads on a swivel looking for on every run play.
Ward played more in the slot and in a different style of offense but Lazard has a little Ward in his game. Tough physical blocker in the run game, tough physical receiver in the pass game. Tenacious.
If Hines Ward is a HOFer because “he was the best blocking WR ever,” then they need to build a huge new wing to Canton for guys good at something other than their job. Ward was a very good but not great player. Steady, productive, valuable as a blocker- but his job was to get open and catch passes.
His numbers are comparable to Derrick Mason, Jimmy Smith, and Brandon Marshall. All good players, but Canton isn’t the Hall of “pretty good”. It’s the place reserved for the best, the game changers, the revolutionaries. I don’t think Hines Ward is a HOFer, but then again I don’t think a lot of players in there now should be there.
@ilcuqui posted:PFHOF selections are today. Here’s part of LeRoy Butler’s presentation:
The HOF Selection Committee is meeting virtually today to discuss the candidates for the #PFHOF21 Class.
— Pro Football Hall of Fame (@ProFootballHOF) January 19, 2021
Next up: Selector @PeteDougherty presented on behalf of Modern-Era Player Finalist @leap36.@packers pic.twitter.com/YsYRwahWKv
The explanation for not putting Butler in? Dementia...among the voters. Back in the day they though Butler and Darren Woodson were 1a and 1b? What changed?
I know what Lombardi would say, "What in the hell is going on around here!!!!"
When Atlanta hosted the Superb Owl in '94, I went to the SB Experience, and met LeRoy totally by happenstance.
There was an autograph area set up, and they were rotating players every so often, 4 at a time, with each player having a specific area roped off. Just happened to be nearby when they were introducing this particular group that included LeRoy. Since his line to wait was short, I bought a card of his to get auto'd, and got to talk to him for 10-15 minutes.
If memory serves, he was widely considered being snubbed by the Pro Bowl for the '93 season, I commented on it but he wasn't bitter about it.
Damn it.
🙏🏽 maybe next year!! 😊 plus it’s always a good thing, to be discussed with the best to ever play THE GAME!
— leroy butler (@leap36) January 27, 2021
WTF. Innovator in how the modern safety position impacts the game.
That shit is just not right These fuckers voting for the HoF have no fucking clue -- Not to mention some in the HoF that shouldn't be there. Sickening.
All HOF's are sketchy, Hank Aaron got approx 97%.
Hank Aaron.
Super Bowl XXXII...one team tailored its game plan to staying as far away as possible from the opposing team's safety...the other didn't.
— Wes Hodkiewicz (@WesHod) January 27, 2021
Have a great day.
Atwater certainly doesn't deserve to be in ahead of Butler.
@Pikes Peak posted:All HOF's are sketchy, Hank Aaron got approx 97%.
Hank Aaron.
Don't get me started on the MLB HOF balloting. There is always that one writer who won't vote for a player because no one shouldn't be an unanimous choice. I think Mariano Rivera may have been the one exception to that.
The one guy in the NFL HOF that still chaps me is the Broncos RB Davis. Seems like a good guy and had a short run of success but HOF worthy? not in this phucking world.
I think its B.S. LeRoy isn't in there but not surprised. I guess he wasn't glamourous enough for some voters.
@The Heckler posted:Don't get me started on the MLB HOF balloting. There is always that one writer who won't vote for a player because no one shouldn't be an unanimous choice. I think Mariano Rivera may have been the one exception to that.
The one guy in the NFL HOF that still chaps me is the Broncos RB Davis. Seems like a good guy and had a short run of success but HOF worthy? not in this phucking world.
I think its B.S. LeRoy isn't in there but not surprised. I guess he wasn't glamourous enough for some voters.
I agree on Davis. What did he do to be worthy of a place in the HOF? I cannot think of anything except maybe some on the selection committee were Broncos fans.
Davis was the best player in the 1997 playoffs and the entire 1998 season. He was good in 1995 and 1996 too. Four productive seasons, two of which were great. One of which was outstanding. Sharpe and Butler deserve to get in.
