Pettine is GONE, who would be your choice?

@SteveLuke posted:

Here's another article on our new defensive coordinator and how he was able to rise through the NFL coaching ranks.

https://www.acmepackingcompany...ism-problem#comments

Inspiring.  He's basically maxed out as a LB coach and gotten the rest of his opportunities, which he badly failed at, via friends and family. 

So, just to recap all of that: Joe Barry worked as a linebackers coach for UNLV and Northern Arizona. He broke into the NFL with San Francisco as a quality control coach, but quickly moved to Tampa where he was linebackers coach for five years. While there, he made friends with Jon Gruden’s younger brother and married Rod Marinelli’s daughter. He was then hired as DC by his father in-law, who had already hired his father, but was in way over his head and got fired. He then went to the Chargers, once again as linebackers coach, where he learned a watered down version of Bum Phillips’ son’s defensive philosophy from Chuck Pagano’s younger brother. He parlayed that into another DC job, this time working for his friend (again, Jon Gruden’s younger brother), along with Bum Phillips’ grandson. He was once again in over his head and would wind up back with the Rams, where he has been working again as a linebackers’ coach, under Bum Phillips’ son.

Wade Phillips, at least, has a long track record of running successful defenses. What does Joe Barry have, exactly?

Sounds like Barry is planning to run Fangio's D scheme.

New from JSOnline and PackersNews: Silverstein: Joe Barry hire based on Matt LaFleur's desire to run Vic Fangio defensive scheme https://t.co/tQc7U4QKxK #Packers

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) February 8, 2021

I remember when Ed Donatell was fired over 4th and 26.  They hired Bob Slowick the next year.  In Slowick's 1st game as D-Coordinator, the Pack's D looked absolutely fantastic.  They blitzed the hell out of the defending NFC Champ Carolina and we all thought, wow, we're gonna love this guy!!!  The one game was about the only good defensive game the Pack had all year.

After week 1, teams adjusted quickly to his aggressive scheme and it didn't take long before offenses were licking their chops getting 1 on 1 matchups with Ahmad Carroll and Joey Thomas.  That ended up being one of the worst defenses I've ever seen a Packers' team have.  They won the division because Favre and the receivers carried them, but that defense was utterly horrible and Slowick only lasted just that one year.

I fear that this may be the next Bob Slowick joining the Pack.  I will root for Barry, but wow there are some real red flags there. 

Well Barry won't have Carroll and Thomas so that should help.  God Almighty couldn't have made a decent defense with those 2.

This hire is even more disappointing.

@CoPackFan posted:

Sounds like Barry is planning to run Fangio's D scheme.

New from JSOnline and PackersNews: Silverstein: Joe Barry hire based on Matt LaFleur's desire to run Vic Fangio defensive scheme https://t.co/tQc7U4QKxK #Packers

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) February 8, 2021

Always makes me think of people trying to run Alex Gibbs Zone Blocking Scheme. Just because people are adjacent to the creator, which Barry was a whole level removed working with a Fangio lieutenant and not Fangio, doesn’t mean they can run it themselves. Hope MLF knows what he’s doing. Probably a good idea to give Jerry Gray and Mike Smith each a good raise to make sure they don’t leave in case this show goes south...

@Tschmack posted:

Lancaster and Lowry can certainly be upgraded.  Definitely.  Might be more obvious than the LB position.

Tyler Lancaster made 750K last year. He's fine as a try-hard backup defensive lineman making close to the minimum. Keke was at 750K as well. That's not a problem at all. Those guys are fine for depth.

Dean Lowry will be on the final year of 3-year, 20 million contract he signed in 2019. That was one of the worst contract extensions the Packers have done in a while. Lowry is not a complete stiff and he's always available - but he's a minimum salary type player. Lancaster gives you the same talent at 10 percent of the cost. There are guys on practice squads throughout the league like Lowry.

To put what we paid Lowry last year into perspective, he made in the same vicinity as N. Suh did last year. Lowry is the 30th highest paid DE in the NFL.

Here's an article on the Fangio scheme. It argues you need TWO elite ILBs. You definitely need one. When he ran it in SF a decade ago, he had Patrick Willis as one of his ILBS and NaVorro Bowman as his other ILB. Willis is probably going to be in the HOF (7x Pro Bowler) and Bowman was a 3X Pro Bowler.

Willis was 6'1" 240 and ran a 4.37 at his Pro day and was the 11th overall pick. Bowman was good too, but probably benefited from playing next to a physical freak like Willis.

https://bleacherreport.com/art...t-of-the-lb-position

When the Bears went 12-4 in 2018 with Fangio as the DC, he had Roquan Smith. Smith is almost the same size as Willis but "only" ran a 4.51. He was the 8th overall pick.

Khrys Barnes ran a 4.79. Kamal Martin ran a 4.82. Kirksey might get you by if he was your 2nd ILB as he ran a 4.58.

If the Packers really want to run the Fangio scheme, Barnes and Martin are unplayable at ILB.

https://beargoggleson.com/2015...os-defensive-scheme/

The inside linebackers do have more coverage responsibility than in a standard 3-4 and are also asked to blitz occasionally. Most 3-4 schemes look for at least one big run-stuffer inside, but Fangio’s scheme required elite athleticism from both his ILBs since they will often cover TEs or RBs. They also have inside gap responsibility vs the run and will occasionally switch to OLB in certain alignments, so they need to be elite athletes who can cover, stop the run, and get to the QB. In San Fran ILBs Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman were both high-level athletes and All-Pro players. The Bears obviously don’t have LBs on that level, so this is one area where Fangio may have to adjust his scheme.

@fightphoe93 posted:

I remember when Ed Donatell was fired over 4th and 26.  They hired Bob Slowick the next year.  In Slowick's 1st game as D-Coordinator, the Pack's D looked absolutely fantastic.  They blitzed the hell out of the defending NFC Champ Carolina and we all thought, wow, we're gonna love this guy!!!  The one game was about the only good defensive game the Pack had all year.

After week 1, teams adjusted quickly to his aggressive scheme and it didn't take long before offenses were licking their chops getting 1 on 1 matchups with Ahmad Carroll and Joey Thomas.  That ended up being one of the worst defenses I've ever seen a Packers' team have.  They won the division because Favre and the receivers carried them, but that defense was utterly horrible and Slowick only lasted just that one year.

I fear that this may be the next Bob Slowick joining the Pack.  I will root for Barry, but wow there are some real red flags there.

This is an uncomfortably similar situation to 4th and 26. You could argue that Pettine was really fired for one play (the 39 yard TD pass at the end of the first half of the NFC title game).

I don't think Joe Barry is going to be creative (at least Slowik tried). This is a hire that MLF knows he can dictate to on what he wants in terms of overall concepts.

If you surveyed people around the league whether they'd want Pettine or Barry, it would be interesting to see if anyone would choose Barry. They swapped out a consistently decent retread for a consistently failed retread.

Slowik is probably still available. I found his Linkedin page.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobslowik/

Look at last night ...first possession KC blitzed and sacked Brady; some posters said "see what an aggressive DC can do"! What happened after that? TB threw a bunch of screens, quick passes, and all of a sudden KC blitz left them susceptible and they stopped..... in the end we had more success vs. their offense. Around the same amount of yards but we got 3 picks, KC forced zero turnovers with their "aggressive DC" ....be careful what you wish for.

Yes, TB adjusted to the aggressive D and KC never did. Mahomes was running for his life out there just like Rodgers was in GB's first meeting with TB this year.

Maybe it’s not what you know but rather who you know. https://www.acmepackingcompany...ant-nepotism-problem
The more I read about this hire, the less I like it.

If the Fangio defense is the order of the day, then the Packers appear to be looking to get active in FA at the ILB position. Because they don’t have anyone on the roster that can play at the requisite level.

So there are 3 guys out there- one of them the wrong side of 30- Levonte David (31). Matt Milano (Bills, 26) and Jaylon Brown (Titans, 26). Next tier is KJ Wright and Eric Wilson among a few older players.

Maybe Kirksey redeemed himself down the stretch, but his cap # is prohibitive if they’re going to go out and get a premium guy.

After some research the Packers have enough maneuverability to get under the cap and still bring in some talent. If they cut Preston Smith loose after 6/1 they’ll get like $8M in cap space, and that combined with a Rodgers restructure and a couple other restructures they’re going to have some room assuming they’re not bring Jones or Lindsley back for premium $$$.

So if they’re going Fangio this thing they’ll need to move some shit around and let some popular guys go...

@Fandame posted:

Yes, TB adjusted to the aggressive D and KC never did. Mahomes was running for his life out there just like Rodgers was in GB's first meeting with TB this year.

KC had no adjustment to make because as many as 3 of the 4 d-lineman for TB were beating their blocks quickly on almost every pass play. It isn't like the offensive line coach can make a guy better in the middle of the game.  It is a DC's dream to be able to get disruptive pressure with 4 rushers. KC couldn't get it & TB could, it was pretty much the story of the game.

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

Here's an article on the Fangio scheme. It argues you need TWO elite ILBs. You definitely need one. When he ran it in SF a decade ago, he had Patrick Willis as one of his ILBS and NaVorro Bowman as his other ILB. Willis is probably going to be in the HOF (7x Pro Bowler) and Bowman was a 3X Pro Bowler.

Willis was 6'1" 240 and ran a 4.37 at his Pro day and was the 11th overall pick. Bowman was good too, but probably benefited from playing next to a physical freak like Willis.

https://bleacherreport.com/art...t-of-the-lb-position

When the Bears went 12-4 in 2018 with Fangio as the DC, he had Roquan Smith. Smith is almost the same size as Willis but "only" ran a 4.51. He was the 8th overall pick.

Khrys Barnes ran a 4.79. Kamal Martin ran a 4.82. Kirksey might get you by if he was your 2nd ILB as he ran a 4.58.

If the Packers really want to run the Fangio scheme, Barnes and Martin are unplayable at ILB.

https://beargoggleson.com/2015...os-defensive-scheme/

The inside linebackers do have more coverage responsibility than in a standard 3-4 and are also asked to blitz occasionally. Most 3-4 schemes look for at least one big run-stuffer inside, but Fangio’s scheme required elite athleticism from both his ILBs since they will often cover TEs or RBs. They also have inside gap responsibility vs the run and will occasionally switch to OLB in certain alignments, so they need to be elite athletes who can cover, stop the run, and get to the QB. In San Fran ILBs Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman were both high-level athletes and All-Pro players. The Bears obviously don’t have LBs on that level, so this is one area where Fangio may have to adjust his scheme.

This is the Oren Burks hole.  The move up for a guy that has produced nothing.  He was the SS conversion project with speed and coverage ability.  Instead they got a ST.

Patrick Willis and Devon White athletically are practically clones.  Elite speed and quickness.  Good size and strength. Bottom line, they erase plays.  

Hint- you aren’t getting a LB like that unless you draft top 15 as Willis was taken 11th overall and White was taken 5th overall.  

Henry is also correct in the limitations of the current group.  I like Martin and Barnes but there’s a reason they were selected (or not) where they were.   They have below average speed and quickness and despite having good instincts and technique they aren’t in the same zip code as a guy like Devon White.  

Lavonte David isn’t nearly as good but he’s still be a major improvement over what we have today.

this is where we would have had a leg up with drafting queen, while not as good out of the box as some other ilb's - we would be heading into year 2 with him and that's no guarantee, but I like the qualities he has that you can't teach.  i think it was a huge miss on gute's part there, bc he was sitting on the board...getting a game breaking ilb is tough to do, but even worse when they don't put a priority on it, maybe the new dc who was born into lb coaching can change that mentality.  tb won the sb primarily with what the middle of that d could do.  they have no other real studs in my mind.  good players yes, but 2 stud lb's can be that changer.

@Grave Digger posted:

I don’t think he was taking a shot I think he was making the same point you are: GB didn’t have the horses to do that consistently and Pettine was more limited with what he could do on the back end.

@Henry Listen to the Locked on Packers podcast -- it's really good

I've found Bukowski to be pretty good on Locked On also.  Doesn't mean he won't miss at times but overall pretty good.

Guaranteed 5 minutes in, Henry is gonna be referring to him as Pete Bukkake.

@pkr_north posted:

this is where we would have had a leg up with drafting queen, while not as good out of the box as some other ilb's - we would be heading into year 2 with him and that's no guarantee, but I like the qualities he has that you can't teach.  i think it was a huge miss on gute's part there, bc he was sitting on the board...getting a game breaking ilb is tough to do, but even worse when they don't put a priority on it, maybe the new dc who was born into lb coaching can change that mentality.  tb won the sb primarily with what the middle of that d could do.  they have no other real studs in my mind.  good players yes, but 2 stud lb's can be that changer.

Their ILBs were good, but that DL is also very good if not elite. Their secondary is very average, but the pass rush is so good and their ability to stop the run with the front 7 takes the pressure off a very average DB core. They know they can jump routes and not play up in the middle to stop the run because of the front 7.

N. Suh, while older, has been one of the best interior linemen in the NFL for a long time. He's a member of the 2010s All-Decade team and usually the players selected for these teams eventually get into the HOF (hopefully will happen for LeRoy Butler who is the only member of the 1990s team not in yet). His propensity to play dirty may keep him out longer than otherwise would have happened.

Pierre-Paul is a premium pass rusher and while not a HOFer, he's been a good player for a long time. He's basically the modern version of Sean Jones from the 1990s Packers' Super Bowl team.

Vita Vea is a load inside. He's their Gilbert Brown. Between him and Suh, they keep the offensive guards off the LBs and allow them to run to the ball unimpeded. It doesn't matter how fast your ILBs are if guys like Linsley and E. Jenkins are able to get to them at the second level. Suh and Vea prevent that from happening.

While Pierre-Paul and Suh were acquired by trade and free agency, there was a reason they were drafted 15th and 2nd overall. Vea was drafted 12th overall. They have elite physical talent.

What this really suggests is that if the Packers want an elite defense, they need to add another wide body DT to put next to K. Clark to keep guys off the LBs and at least one elite-level ILB. Those guys don't grow on trees.

Watched the 2015 playoff game against the Wash Foreskins. Joe Buck said Joe Barry did a nice job.,.......Well that settles it!

@Boris posted:

@Henry Listen to the Locked on Packers podcast -- it's really good

No thanks.  Once stupid fallacious comparison about going all in was enough.  Fucking fluffer material.

@Henry posted:

No thanks.  Once stupid fallacious comparison about going all in was enough.  Fucking fluffer material.

ya that guy has gone a little too full of himself - used to listen, but with all the ads and crap, nah.

Might want to update the subject on this one. I think it's going to be referenced a lot in the next few years...

@pkr_north posted:

ya that guy has gone a little too full of himself - used to listen, but with all the ads and crap, nah.

Bukowski is trying to out Nagler Aaron Nagler.

Nagler, whose football expertise apparently stems from hanging out in hipster bars in Manhattan with a bunch of other guys who never played football growing up, constantly preaches  that every move the Packer organization makes is the right one, or at the very least no one outside of the organization itself has the gravitas to question the move. (Though even Nagler hedged on MLF hiring Barry over two African-American candidates as it set up a clash between his unquestioning fealty to the Packer organization and his commitment to diversity).

As for Bukowski, to differentiate from Nagler and the other members of the Packer press amen corner, he has adopted a sharper edge in defending all things Green & Gold management does and criticizing those who do not.

According to Buko, fans are imbeciles who just don't understand ... or fail to take into account undisclosed information, injuries, etc. whenever they do not spout the Packer company line.

While Nagler adopts the condescending tone of a self-declared superior towards the masses of what he insists are inferior knaves, Bukowski gets downright angry that entitled Packer fans are not more grateful for all the organization has done for not only Packer fans but for the NFL itself.

Imagine devoting an entire article defending the Packers from any criticism that they did not go ALL IN to win a Super Bowl in 2020 (and insisting GB did the same things this past offseason as the TB Bucs) without ever mentioning that GB spent its 1st and 4th round 2020 draft picks on Jordan Love. What chutzpah.

These are just the types of articles that get you noticed (and provide you with favorable access) at 1265 Lombardi.

https://www.acmepackingcompany...neers-super-bowl-run

Williamson ran a 4.5 at the combine. Can probably had for cheap in 2021. Produced well in 2020 for the Steelers:

BIO-Needing help after the season-ending injury to Devin Bush, the Steelers traded a fifth round pick to the Jets for Avery Williamson and a seventh round pick.  The 28-year-old played in nine games with the Steelers, starting four finishing with 51 tackles, leading the team in three games including 14 in the final win of the season against the Colts.  Combining his numbers with the Steelers and Jets, it’s the fifth season in Williamson’s career he’s finished in triple digits (111 in 2020 and that’s really in only 14 games).

FOR-Williamson is a veteran presence who is a tackle collector.  He appeared to mesh well with his new teammates.  The seven-year pro made a modest 2.75 million this year and could be an affordable veteran insurance policy for Bush and Vince Williams.

AGAINST-Williamson likely would want a chance to start and with Bush and Williams under contract and Robert Spillane impressing at times and likely cheaper if re-signed, Williamson would be a luxury the Steelers could not afford with their salary cap situation.

PREDICTION-Williamson plays for a fourth different team next year.

Rueben Foster, a former 1st rounder is also available for the first time and probably won't command a ton of interest due to injuries.   

@SteveLuke posted:

Bukowski is trying to out Nagler Aaron Nagler.

Nagler, whose football expertise apparently stems from hanging out in hipster bars in Manhattan with a bunch of other guys who never played football growing up, constantly preaches  that every move the Packer organization makes is the right one, or at the very least no one outside of the organization itself has the gravitas to question the move. (Though even Nagler hedged on MLF hiring Barry over two African-American candidates as it set up a clash between his unquestioning fealty to the Packer organization and his commitment to diversity).

As for Bukowski, to differentiate from Nagler and the other members of the Packer press amen corner, he has adopted a sharper edge in defending all things Green & Gold management does and criticizing those who do not.

According to Buko, fans are imbeciles who just don't understand ... or fail to take into account undisclosed information, injuries, etc. whenever they do not spout the Packer company line.

While Nagler adopts the condescending tone of a self-declared superior towards the masses of what he insists are inferior knaves, Bukowski gets downright angry that entitled Packer fans are not more grateful for all the organization has done for not only Packer fans but for the NFL itself.

Imagine devoting an entire article defending the Packers from any criticism that they did not go ALL IN to win a Super Bowl in 2020 (and insisting GB did the same things this past offseason as the TB Bucs) without ever mentioning that GB spent its 1st and 4th round 2020 draft picks on Jordan Love. What chutzpah.

These are just the types of articles that get you noticed (and provide you with favorable access) at 1265 Lombardi.

https://www.acmepackingcompany...neers-super-bowl-run

Nagler did perceive that MLF wanted to be more aggressive on defense and proceeded to give subtle shots towards Pettine on his chats & ask leading questions to MLF in pressers to try to get him to question Pettine. My take was that he was kissing MLF ass and trying to project "I think just like you do coach" to impress MLF.  

@Packiderm posted:

Watched the 2015 playoff game against the Wash Foreskins. Joe Buck said Joe Barry did a nice job.,.......Well that settles it!

Yep. Giving up 35 points to a Packer team that lost Cobb during the game and ended up playing a one-legged D. Adams, Abbrederis, and an over-the-hill James Jones at WR along with giving up 141 rushing yards to post-buffet time Eddie Lacy and 30-year old James Starks screams quality performance. RichRod really threatened you down the seam too.

In the two games previous to that the Packers scored 21 combined points and it took two Rodgers to Janis Hail Marys to score more than 13 against the Cards the following week.

Yikes....

@Pikes Peak posted:

Yikes....

If you want to feel even worse, JC Tretter had to play LT in that Redskins playoff game because Bakh was out.

Okay, I know what you knuckleheads think, but what have the Packers said about Barry? What has MLF said about him? I haven't seen anything about their opinion of either he nor Drayton.

Nonsense. The internets knows best.

The #Bears have hired former #Packers defensive coordinator Mike Pettine as their new senior defensive assistant, sources say. From Green Bay to Chicago, Pettine switches sides in the NFC North and will serve as a veteran sounding board for new DC Sean Desai.

Doh. See ya 2x yr ABM. TBSS

@R MaN posted:

The #Bears have hired former #Packers defensive coordinator Mike Pettine as their new senior defensive assistant, sources say. From Green Bay to Chicago, Pettine switches sides in the NFC North and will serve as a veteran sounding board for new DC Sean Desai.

That worked well for Capers.

@SteveLuke posted:

These are just the types of articles that get you noticed (and provide you with favorable access) at 1265 Lombardi.

https://www.acmepackingcompany...neers-super-bowl-run

I couldn’t even get past the fucking subtitle.

Much has been made about Tampa Bay “going all-in” to win the Super Bowl. But look a little closer. This team was built through the draft with Tom Brady (and Gronk) as the final piece.

Oh yeah, signing one of the greatest QBs and his side kick was small potatoes.  All Gunt had to do was sign or draft say, anyone for the middle of the defense.

Did any of their draftees score in the SB

@Pikes Peak posted:

Did any of their draftees score in the SB

Tampa Bay draftees? If so, the answer is nope not one of their draftees scored during their SB blowout win over the Chiefs.

Course the guy TB took in round 2 a few selections after Jordan Love was taken in round 1 did have an Interception in the Super Bowl.

And the WR TB took in round 5  a few selections after the Pack's round 4 pick that was traded away so the Pack could take Jordan Love not only had a clutch 1st down catch on 3rd and long in the NFCCG but was also the guy King got caught holding to end the game.

Jordan Love may well eventually lead the Packers to a SINGLE Super Bowl win just like Favre and Rodgers before him.

But there can be no dispute that the cost of using 1st and 4th round picks to select Love in 2020 was the opportunity to select players with those picks who could have helped the Packers advance to the Super Bowl both in 2020 and every other year going forward unless and until Love begins taking meaninguful regular season snaps.

Well, it's been 2 weeks any word on Joe Barry's staff? Or what D alignment he is running?