Last year, they sent Sterling Brown to Summer League to practice attacking the rim and finishing in traffic. He came back better at it. Now he must practice step backs and playmaking decisions.
DJW needs to handle the ball and work on his back to basket footwork and comfort. If he also could work on some step backs and midrange that would help him.
Given the financial state of the Bucks, what they have done this free agency period has exceeded my wildest expectations.
It's incredible.
I agree. If you would have told me Wes Matthews was going to be had for a MLE I wouldn't have batted an eye. Then Horst gets him for Minimum !! Are we seeing veterans come to Miltown to play for a winner and along side Giannis at reduced salaries ??(Mathews, BroLo, RoLo) ??
Brogdon loss is minimized by all the nice additions, plus Horst turns it into picks !!! That FRP from Indy could be nice value. Is it protected ?
I don't think that info has been released, and probably won't be until after the 6th. Heard some interesting stuff in trying to find out though.
One observation was that you never really heard Giannis talk about Malcolm. Ever. He threw his 2 cents worth all over the place discussing Lopez, Midds, Hill...
Another, would you trade Robin Lopez, Hill, Wes, a FRP and two SRPs for Brogdon?
Lastly, that he was not as personable as you might expect one on one, and that is putting it in words that are really nice, as best I could. This Bucks team takes a lot of pride in having good people around on the team. Conversely, heard DJ Wilson was one of the best.
Also, we've come a long way in one year, when Horst made his decision to let Jabari Parker hit FA... Hard to believe all that has transpired since.
Here's a decent perspective on what Horst was able to do, written before we added Robin and Wes.
Not sure I’m ready to throw shade on Brogdon. I know Parker aired a lot of dirty laundry which ultimately lead to his demise, but MB always seemed like a pretty good dude and when healthy he played and played well.
I’ll miss the highlight of him dunking over both Kyrie and LeBron in the same game (google it), his ROY campaign, this 50/40/90 season, and his off the court contributions. I wish him well and no ill will coming from me.
That being said, moving him along I think may have actually made this team better. They got Hill to return and they will have him for a full season instead of half a season. Adding R Lopez gives them quality depth and toughness at the center position, and Wes Matthews is exactly the type of veteran presence that every championship level team needs. Not to mention they were able to extract some draft picks which are always good to have.
I know a lot of pundits think it’s Toronto’s conference to lose if Kahwi returns or Philly next but I don’t know about that. The Bucks addressed every weakness they had and you have to believe Giannis and Bledsoe and Middleton can still improve.
Assuming no major injuries I like the Bucks chances next year.
Tschmack posted:
I know a lot of pundits think it’s Toronto’s conference to lose if Kahwi returns or Philly next but I don’t know about that. The Bucks addressed every weakness they had and you have to believe Giannis and Bledsoe and Middleton can still improve.
Assuming no major injuries I like the Bucks chances next year.
I agree with you on this. Toronto had a great run obviously, but I think Kawhi is gone. Even if he's back, the real reason the Raptors won the title was Fred VanVleet. If he doesn't get hot, I think the Bucks probably sweep them or win in 5 and he was a difference maker in the Finals as well. Of course, if Durant and Klay both don't get hurt, I think the Warriors were coming back and winning that series.
Van Vleet went 14-17 from 3 in the last 3 games of the Bucks series (every time I type that I am still amazed) and then 16-40 from 3 in the Finals. The previous 10 playoff games before that, Van Vleet was 5-35 from the 3 point line. In the 7 game series against the Sixers he was 1-14 from 3 - that's why the Sixers series was as close as it was.
The chances of Van Vleet shooting at that clip again are close to zero. That's what the Raptors would need to win again even with Kawhi.
Agree with both of you guys. Also, I wasn't trying to throw shade, but, found the comments interesting while searching through other blogs, anywhere to find info on the trade terms.
I liked Brogdon and still do, but some of that stuff I never really considered. He did get a bit torqued when he rode the bench for 20 games after winning the ROY award, and then they traded for Bledsoe.
Brogdon is an upstanding guy with character. Maybe it just wasn't a fit more than anyone of us could have realized.
Regardless, I'm with you on our chances looking pretty good. Zero national media recognizing this either. Horst did a remarkable job retooling the roster here, while trading the FRP to unload Snell's contract, then getting another and the SRPs for Brogs. Robin Lopez, George Hill, Wes Matthews, all of them want a ring and a trophy. All of them great, effective, veteran players. Horst came through that sh!t storm smelling like a rose... and that was no easy feat. Smart, calculated moves. The guy has been remarkable for us, and I'm way more encouraged about 2019-2020 season than I was on draft day.
I know a lot of pundits think it’s Toronto’s conference to lose if Kahwi returns or Philly next but I don’t know about that. The Bucks addressed every weakness they had and you have to believe Giannis and Bledsoe and Middleton can still improve.
Assuming no major injuries I like the Bucks chances next year.
The Sixers are completely dependent on Joel Embiid's health. Consider that he was drafted in 2014. He's been in the league fro 5 years and has played a total of 158 regular season games. He's never played more than 64 games a year.
The Sixers will start Embiid, Horford, Simmons, T. Harris, and Josh Richardson. They essentially traded Jimmy Butler and JJ Redick for Josh Richardson and Horford. That takes a lot of shooting off the floor for a team that already has a primary ballhandler who no one guards outside of 5 feet from the rim.
Horford is a nice outside shooter at about 37% from 3 and is a pretty solid defender as well. I think that’s a good move for the Sixers as they can go big and if Embiid goes down they have frontcourt depth. However, JJ Redick was their best outside shooter and Butler was their best perimeter defender, a decent scorer and a very good rebounder.
Richardson is a poor mans Butler but he’s giving up almost 4PPG and 1-2 rebounds a game and Redick gave them 18PPG. Collectively, they need to make up almost 10PPG. That’s a lot. They are also dangerously thin with ball handlers and guards that can shoot from the outside.
It would seem they are going to lean on Horford a lot more for 3pt shooting and rebounding. He’s very capable but also not getting any younger at 33.
Embiid is the key. He has not been able to stay healthy and for them to take a step forward he can’t miss games.
Brogdon’s a very good player, but the Bucks had depth at the position and he was offered basically the sum of the 3 veteran players they are using now to fortify their bench- R Lopez, Matthews, and Hill. The Bucks I’m sure would have loved to keep Brogdon, but he wanted to get paid. It’s amicable- he’s going to a team that’s pretty good and will challenge for a too 4 seed this coming season.
Music City posted:Brogdon’s a very good player, but the Bucks had depth at the position and he was offered basically the sum of the 3 veteran players they are using now to fortify their bench- R Lopez, Matthews, and Hill. The Bucks I’m sure would have loved to keep Brogdon, but he wanted to get paid. It’s amicable- he’s going to a team that’s pretty good and will challenge for a too 4 seed this coming season.
I just don't see how this lineup is any better than a 45-48 win team. The Pacers won 48 last year. I guess if people think Oladipo is a legit top 20 NBA player they can challenge, but I'm skeptical. This looks like the equivalent of the Bucks lineup without Giannis.
C- Myles Turner, Kyle O’Quinn
PF- Domantas Sabonis, Goga Bitadze, Alize Johnson
SF- Jeremy Lamb, T.J. Warren,
SG- Victor Oladipo, Stephan Hicks, Davon Reed
PG- Malcolm Brogdon, Aaron Holiday, Edmond Sumner
Are the Warriors making a move for Kawhi Leonard? All sorts of speculation right now that Deangelo Russell was brought to GS to package in another deal. On the floor, there’s no place for Russell on the Warriors.
Theres something going on...
I’m not sure Brogdon will be as effective for Indiana. I don’t see them any higher than a 4 seed even with Oladipo
I still think Kahwi goes to the Clippers. Him joining LeBron or the Warriors would go contrary to everything he’s done as he would no longer be the center of attention.
If he goes to Golden State JFC just give them the title now. I don’t care if Klay doesn’t play at all this season a team with Steph and Draymond Green and Kahwi won’t get beat.
Music City posted:Are the Warriors making a move for Kawhi Leonard? All sorts of speculation right now that Deangelo Russell was brought to GS to package in another deal. On the floor, there’s no place for Russell on the Warriors.
Theres something going on...
I see that Philly just offered Simmons an extension of 5 yrs 170MM.
They now have 3 players scheduled to make 30MM+ per year plus Horford who is making close to 28MM per year. That’s insane.
Music City posted:Are the Warriors making a move for Kawhi Leonard? All sorts of speculation right now that Deangelo Russell was brought to GS to package in another deal. On the floor, there’s no place for Russell on the Warriors.
Theres something going on...
Would prove a shrewd as F play by GS....
If the Warriors were going to make a move for Leonard, they would have done it before signing Russell.
Water under the bridge but did anyone think we should have tried Brogdon at full time PG and let Bledsoe walk? My biggest concern is Bledsoe is not a natural shooter and has stepped down, not up in the playoffs. I do think Giannis opened up things for Brogdon that he won't see in Indy but I appreciated his fearlessness in taking big shots.
The analytics showed Brogdon was a solid catch and shoot guy, not so great off the bounce. And he can play PG in a pinch, but he can’t stay with the super quick guys. Bledsoe is a better defender, and is improving year over year. I think he still has some room to improve, too.
Not being talked about much is the risk Brooklyn has made with bringing on two guys, now both with significant injury history, that are supposed to lead you for the next 4 seasons (and one of them will won’t play this year).
Music City posted:The analytics showed Brogdon was a solid catch and shoot guy, not so great off the bounce. And he can play PG in a pinch, but he can’t stay with the super quick guys. Bledsoe is a better defender, and is improving year over year. I think he still has some room to improve, too.
Not being talked about much is the risk Brooklyn has made with bringing on two guys, now both with significant injury history, that are supposed to lead you for the next 4 seasons (and one of them will won’t play this year).
I don't think Brooklyn is much of a threat to compete for a Conference championship without Durant. This next year will probably feature Kyrie Irving averaging about 30 points a game and hitting 50 a few times. The Nets will essentially be a weaker version of the Rockets with Kyrie in the Harden role. Who else is going to create on that team?
Music City posted:The analytics showed Brogdon was a solid catch and shoot guy, not so great off the bounce. And he can play PG in a pinch, but he can’t stay with the super quick guys. Bledsoe is a better defender, and is improving year over year. I think he still has some room to improve, too.
I'm been dogging Bledsoe as much as anybody, but he really has only one weakness. That's catch and shoot three pointers. The problem is that it's at the front of minds right now watching him be left wide open for 3s in the Raptors series.
Other than catch and shoot wide open 3s and FTS (where Bledsoe is still almost an 80% career shooter), Bledsoe is better than Brogdon at almost every measurable category - including other shooting stats. Bledsoe is an elite on-ball guard defender. There's a reason he was First team All-NBA defense. He's a better ball handler, better at the rim, and he's extremely durable. For as much as we complain about his decision making sometimes, his assist to turnover ratio is also significantly better than Brogdon's.
Bledsoe 5.5 to 2.1 (2.6 ratio)
Brogdon 3.2 to 1.4 (2.3 ratio)
Brogdon is at 57% inside of 10 feet, while Bledsoe is best guard in the league at 62%. On pull up 2s in the mid-range, Brogdon was 19 for 59 (32%) while Bledsoe was 100 for 259 (39%).
Catch and shoot 3s: Brogdon (86 for 181, 47.5%); Bledsoe (58 for 198, 29.3 %)
Pull-up 3s: Brogdon (16 for 60, 26.75); Bledsoe (63 for 164, 38.4)
Here's the webpages if you want to look for yourselves. I've included Middleton's page as well.
https://stats.nba.com/player/2...n&PerMode=Totals
https://stats.nba.com/player/1...n&PerMode=Totals
https://stats.nba.com/player/2...n&PerMode=Totals
If you look at all this and then consider that Bledsoe will make 3.5 million dollars a year less than Brogdon, he's a lot better overall player for the money than we give him credit for right now. We basically get Wes Matthews and Bledsoe for the same money Brogdon is getting.
Music's also right in that Bledsoe's much more likely to improve on shooting wide open 3 points (Brook Lopez did after 10 years in the league) by practicing than Brogdon is all of sudden going to become better at his relative weaknesses.
I think a lot of love for Brogdon from national writers is that I would guess he's one of the best interview subjects in the league. Extremely, extremely bright and widely read. I'd want my son to grow up to be like Brogdon out of anyone on the Bucks last year, but that doesn't make him an NBA superstar worthy of 21 million a year.
I look at the combined pieces and I think this current team is better than having Brogdon back but no George Hill and no Wes Matthews. Hill gives the Bucks a really solid 1-2 punch at PG with Bledsoe and Wes Matthews can either start at SG or back up Sterling Brown.
I also think it’s very possible they don’t sign Robin Lopez had Brogdon returned. He’s going to make a difference this year especially against teams like Philly that want to play physical in the frontcourt.
Tschmack posted:I look at the combined pieces and I think this current team is better than having Brogdon back but no George Hill and no Wes Matthews. Hill gives the Bucks a really solid 1-2 punch at PG with Bledsoe and Wes Matthews can either start at SG or back up Sterling Brown.
I also think it’s very possible they don’t sign Robin Lopez had Brogdon returned. He’s going to make a difference this year especially against teams like Philly that want to play physical in the frontcourt.
Yes. With Robin and Brook Lopez, they'll essentially get 12 fouls on defense with elite-level post defenders to battle Embiid and Al Horford in a playoff series (or Marc Gasol or DeAndre Jordan).
It will be interesting to see if Robin starts firing 3 pointers up next year as well.
Next to Giannis the addition of Robin Lopez gives them a legit defensive presence in the paint against other big men. He’s one of the best defensive rebounders out there and he alters a lot of shots. The other thing he does well is setting screens on offense.
He’s basically the perfect compliment to his brother.
What Matthews gives them is a guy that can flat out shoot the 3, especially the corner 3s. If the spacing is there he could have a monster year. Middleton plays more off the dribble whereas WM is an elite catch and shoot guy. Bledsoe and Giannis will certainly help in that sense setting them up on dribble drives and it will keep defenses honest.
Kyle Korver rumored to be going to the Bucks, Sixers, or Lakers after his buyout. He's got a lot of history with Bud from Atlanta. You'd think that would help.
How many Fs do they need? I guess you can never have too much shooting, but wow...
Kawhi to LA. They also agree to a trade for Paul George going to LA as well. WOW. Also it is the Clippers not the Lakers. Best possible place if you as are a Bucks fan
Korver in MKE could be very good. Bud likes his 3ers.
With Kawhi and George going to the Clips the West is absolutely loaded. I have to think the LAC are now the favorite but Denver and Utah and Portland and the Lakers all figure to be pretty good as well. I guess you could include Houston in that group as well but in reality they don’t scare anyone.
As a side note, if for some reason Giannis decides he wants out we now see through AD and George trades what they could get back in return. New Orleansis set up well and Presti in OKC will figure it out. Makes me wonder if they also put Westbrook on the block?
Toronto went from NBA champs to becoming a possible lottery team in one offseason.
Well, George and Leonard to the Clippers is an interesting development. Oh how the times have changed... the Knicks, Lakers, and Celtics are not attracting the marquee players anymore. Now it’s Brooklyn and the Clippers? This shit’s crazy.
Just how good does this make the Clippers? They’ll be excellent defensively, they have a good coach, but are they unstoppable? It doesn’t feel like that.
Meanwhile, the Bucks got bigger, deeper, and have added shooting to the top scoring team and top defensive rated team in the NBA.
Not having to worry about Kawhi in the East anymore is a big deal for the Bucks. The Nets won’t be troublesome for at least another season as KD heals up. I don’t think Boston has improved, and I’m not sure Indiana got much better by adding Brogdon as they lost Young and Bogdonovic. Philly is probably their biggest threat, but I think the Bucks can match up with them.
No reason why Milwaukee can’t get a top 3 seed in the East. The top seed is certainly a possibility.
The West will be a bloodbath. Honestly you have 5-6 teams that could make the Finals but they will beat up on each other. The Clippers are intriguing for sure just because how good Kawhi is. Adding George makes them a real threat. Lou Williams is a stud and Beverly is probably the best pound for pound defender in the NBA. Zubac and Harrell are solid big men. They lose some scoring with no Gallinardi but are way better defensively now. Make no mistake - the Clippers gave up a shit ton to get PG13 and without him no Kawhi deal gets done. But if you are the LAC you take your shot. Especially if the alternative is Kawhi goes to the other LA team and it basically guarantees the Lakers of several titles in the near future.
Jerry West playing chess and LeBrons Lakers playing checkers I love it.
With OKC now in rebuild mode I wonder if Boston and Indiana panicked a bit in their PG moves. Clearly the Thunder will try to deal Westbrook and he would be an instant upgrade over either Kemba or Brogdon. Maybe the Knicks or Bulls try to make a bold statement by getting him? Who knows
Tschmack posted:
With OKC now in rebuild mode I wonder if Boston and Indiana panicked a bit in their PG moves. Clearly the Thunder will try to deal Westbrook and he would be an instant upgrade over either Kemba or Brogdon. Maybe the Knicks or Bulls try to make a bold statement by getting him? Who knows
The Knicks are a possible destination for him. Unless Anthony Davis bolts from LA, there is a pretty low voltage free agent class next year in terms of star power. And Westbrook would be such a typical Knicks move. He's got 4 years and 170 million left on a contract as he becomes a descending player.
The Lakers and Clippers just gutted their drafts and base on young talent for the next 7-8 years, but it doesn't matter as much to them. In 5 years, they'll just lure the next max free agents to play in LA.
The other thing to consider is whether the SuperMax contract idea is working. It was supposed to keep guys with their original franchise, but only Curry, Harden, Westbrook, and Wall have signed them. And the latter 2 are long-term disasters.
The countdown to July 1, 2020 is now on. That's when Giannis can sign his supermax.
I hope Middleton can raise his game or a frustrated Giannis will end up with the Warriors. They will probably max Draymond Green but would move him if they could land Giannis in FA. I think the small market teams are going to have real trouble with the new landscape of the NBA.
Not so sure about that.
Clearly, the so-called big market teams are not concerned about dealing away future picks because they can attract and land big name stars. But draft picks are still important. Look no further than New Orleans. They just dealt away a top 5-7 player in AD but recouped a lot of draft capital in return and got perhaps a future stud in Zion. They could be the next Warriors 3-4 years from now. OKC is set up really well now as well with multiple first rounders for PG13.
How quickly we forget the modern day powerhouse team (Golden State) was built through the draft, not free agency. Curry and Green and Steph weren’t highly drafted guys. But they were picks, not free agents.
Toronto is the team that should be worried. Yes they won a title, but it came at a huge cost giving up their best player (DeRozan) for a one year rental. Rumor has it OKC was trying to make a deal with them sending PG13 and Westbrook there but their GM didn’t want to give up a Clippers like haul in picks. Honestly, if that’s what it would have taken to keep Kahwi they should have pulled the trigger but did not.
The Crusher posted:I hope Middleton can raise his game or a frustrated Giannis will end up with the Warriors. They will probably max Draymond Green but would move him if they could land Giannis in FA. I think the small market teams are going to have real trouble with the new landscape of the NBA.
The upside of all this is that the Sixers and Bucks are clearly the class of the East for now. If I'm Giannis, I'd want to stay in the East instead of heading West where about 7 teams are loaded (Lakers, Clippers, Jazz, Rockets, Warriors, Nuggets, Mavs, and Blazers) to the point they'd all be threats for the top 2 seeds in the East.
This is how Lebron got to 8 straight finals- stacked team in a weak conference equates to minimized minutes and a fresh, deep team come playoff time.
The conversation is shifting to Giannis in ‘22, but he’s totally committed to this organization.
If Westbrook ends up in the East that could change the landscape a bit. However, for the near future it really is the Bucks conference to lose.
Music City posted:This is how Lebron got to 8 straight finals- stacked team in a weak conference equates to minimized minutes and a fresh, deep team come playoff time.
The conversation is shifting to Giannis in ‘22, but he’s totally committed to this organization.
We'll see.
Well, they’re about to sign Thanasis to a 2 year deal according to Eurohoops... only one reason to do that I’m afraid.
