Found on the internet: I looked up the Greek League stats and he averaged 5.4 points in 14 minutes per game last year. The team had 18 players with 15 getting minutes so nobody averages more than 20 minutes per game on that team.
Thanasis did make All-defense in the G league twice. It's basically like having Thon Maker around again.
Do what do you think the reason is that Brogdon is tossing shade at the Bucks? Glad to be playing with an unselfish star player? Was Giannis selfish?
Or is this being thrown at either Bledsoe or Middleton?
I'm sure it is Bled. He had a thorn in his side about Bledoe ever since they traded for him, as he thought he should have been the starting PG after winning Rookie of the Year. Bledsoe is a far better defender. Solid player and distributor. His shooting could improve, but, he's pretty good.
I like that he and Brook Lopez went to Greece to see Giannis last week. Pretty cool camaraderie. Good to see.
Meh. We can speculate but will probably never know the real reasons Brogdon is gone. Hated Milwaukee? Didn't like his teammates ? Didn't want come off the bench ? Bucks owners didn't want to pay the luxury tax ?
Interesting that George Hill, Middleton, and Brooke Lopez all floated the word during the FA period that they loved Milwaukee and wanted to come back. Not Brogdon.
If you would have told me that the Bucks would re-sign their key players and only lose Brogdon, but would replace him with George Hill, Wes Matthews, Robin Lopez, and a FRP and 2 SRP to ease the pain....I'm feeling pretty good about our GM. Liked Brogdon and will probably miss him...but damn nice recovery.
As a Bucks fan, knowing how hard it is to reach the top, I would be pissed to find out that this was done to avoid the luxury tax. Maybe Malcolm just wanted to go where he could run the point ?
Well said, dog! Yeah, not busting on him, loved his play, but he had his share of misses, and his foot issues have plagued him since his days at Virginia. That is a chronic problem that the Bucks and their team doctor saw first hand.
When he was drafted, the word was out on his left foot being a red flag. Well, he missed 60 games with his right foot, amongst other injuries. I believe he suffered 9 different injuries...? That's a lot in his short career.
I don't mind management balking at giving him what is near a max contract, given what we know. Great guy. Great player. He didn't like the city, and I agree that he probably wanted to be the starting PG somewhere. I think he clashed big time with Bledsoe.
Westbrook to Houston for Chris Paul. 
The Oklahoma City Thunder have agreed to trade Russell Westbrook to the Houston Rockets for Chris Paul, first-round picks in 2024 and 2026, pick swaps in 2021 and 2025, league sources tell ESPN.
This is why the NBA offseason is the best of any sport.
OKC just gets more picks. Crazy. If they wanted to get really creative now they could include one or even two picks to get a team to take on Paul and his ridiculous salary. Hello Lakers?
That's the plan, Stan.... Brilliant retooling of the Thunder.
Trophies posted:That's the plan, Stan.... Brilliant retooling of the Thunder.
They are better off getting something for Paul if they can, have a couple lean years, and target being real competitive when the picks emerge.
phaedrus posted:Trophies posted:That's the plan, Stan.... Brilliant retooling of the Thunder.
They are better off getting something for Paul if they can, have a couple lean years, and target being real competitive when the picks emerge.
OKC will be a case study for what should have been a dynasty but never was. The underlying reason was that a rich owner didn't want to pay too much in salary. If they just give James Harden 5 years and 80 million in 2012 instead of offering 4 years and 55 million OKC probably has 2-3 championships right now.
I'm on record saying that I thought the Brogdon trade was fine, but I hope that the Bucks made the decision not to bring back Brogdon solely for basketball reasons and not because some billionaires wanted to save some money.
Look at OKC's roster in 2012. They were coming off a Finals appearance in which they lost to the peak LeBron/Wade/Bosh Heat team. Durant and Westbrook were both 23 and Harden and Ibaka were both 22. Ownership low-balled Harden and pissed him off and they traded him. OKC managed to turn three future HOFers (Durant, Westbrook, and Harden) and a multiple All-NBA Defensive team guy (Ibaka) into Steven Adams, Gilgeous-Alexander, Gallinari, and Paul and a bunch of draft picks that will mean they have 15 first round picks in the next 6 years. So instead of competing for multiple championships during the last 7 years they get to tell their fans they'll be able to build a team that, if they get a superstar in the lottery, might be able to compete for a title in about 2025.
Harden was traded for Jeremy Lamb, Kevin Martin, and draft picks that became Steven Adams and Mitch McGary.
They lost Durant for nothing.
They traded Westbrook for a 34 year old Chris Paul and some picks.
They traded Ibaka for Oladipo, Sabonis, and Ersan Ilyasova. They then traded Olapipo and Sabonis for Paul George and eventually flipped George for a motherload of picks and Gilgeous-Alexander and Gallinari.
Sure they have a lot of picks, but we see how guys like Jabari Parker, Andrew Wiggins, Fultz, etc. can turn out even at the top of the draft. OKC's had the best run of first round picks in NBA history over a three year period (Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, and Harden were selected in 3 consecutive drafts). Their chances of repeating that are zero.
Giannis working out same place as Korver. Hmmmmm ??
Also, JR Smith seen at Mitchell Field yesterday. 
Korver signs with the Bucks, per Woj. This is huge, if only to keep him off the Sixers.
Free agent Kyle Korver has agreed to a one-year deal with the Milwaukee Bucks, agent Jeff Schwartz of tells ESPN.
MichiganPacker2 posted:phaedrus posted:Trophies posted:That's the plan, Stan.... Brilliant retooling of the Thunder.
They are better off getting something for Paul if they can, have a couple lean years, and target being real competitive when the picks emerge.
OKC will be a case study for what should have been a dynasty but never was. The underlying reason was that a rich owner didn't want to pay too much in salary. If they just give James Harden 5 years and 80 million in 2012 instead of offering 4 years and 55 million OKC probably has 2-3 championships right now.
I'm on record saying that I thought the Brogdon trade was fine, but I hope that the Bucks made the decision not to bring back Brogdon solely for basketball reasons and not because some billionaires wanted to save some money.
I don’t think Brogdon is an irreplaceable player. I liked him, would have loved to run last year’s roster back, but Brogdon is probably never seeing an All Star game as a player, and despite his qualities was not worth the investment if that means you don’t get anyone else.
The Bucks got cheaper options and increased the veteran presence on the team with guys who are hungry for Championship(s). They diversified the lineup instead of putting it all on Brogdon to be an All Star level player. It was the right move...
This could be the type of move that puts them over the top. Korver is exactly the veteran role player they need.
I’m with you on that- he didn’t exactly light it up in Utah after he got traded last year. But in Cleveland he was shooting 43%, so maybe it was the altitude...
Not sure either. What’s interesting is in Utah he was still OK - by relative standards.
You hope they are getting the Cleveland version but hell if he shoots 39% from 3 they will be just fine.
They just can’t have him shooting 25% like Mirotic and Bledsoe.
Free agent F Dragan Bender has agreed to a two-year deal with the Milwaukee Bucks, league source tells ESPN. Bender, 21, was the No. 4 overall pick to Phoenix in the 2016 NBA Draft.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 25, 2019
Only 21 years old. Low risk signing to fill out the roster.
Packdog posted:Free agent F Dragan Bender has agreed to a two-year deal with the Milwaukee Bucks, league source tells ESPN. Bender, 21, was the No. 4 overall pick to Phoenix in the 2016 NBA Draft.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 25, 2019Only 21 years old. Low risk signing to fill out the roster.
He's the highest overall pick on the roster. Bender and these 14 guys are the roster and he's the only one who was drafted in the first 9 picks of the NBA draft.
Giannis (1st round-15th)
B. Lopez (1-10)
R. Lopez (1-15)
Wilson (1-17)
DiVencenzo (1-17)
Bledsoe (1-18)
G. Hill (1-26)
Middleton, Thanasis, Connaugton, S. Brown, Korver, and Ilyasova all 2nd rounders. Matthews as an UDFA.
Music City posted:I’m with you on that- he didn’t exactly light it up in Utah after he got traded last year. But in Cleveland he was shooting 43%, so maybe it was the altitude...
He still shot 38.4% in the regular season after he was traded to Utah but only shot 6 3s in the playoffs (2 for 6). He probably can't guard most of us on the board at this point, but if you have a final offensive possession at the end of the quarter or the half, you want him out there. Talk about spacing the floor - if you put Korver, Wes Matthews, Middleton, and Lopez on the floor with Giannis, the opposing defense's only choice is to double Giannis with Lopez' defender.
Only 4 guys in history have made more 3s than Korver and they are all HOFers (Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, and Steph Curry) and despite that volume he's 9th all time 3 point %. He's never shot lower than 38% from 3 over a season and he's been as high as 53% in a season.
Packdog posted:Free agent F Dragan Bender has agreed to a two-year deal with the Milwaukee Bucks, league source tells ESPN. Bender, 21, was the No. 4 overall pick to Phoenix in the 2016 NBA Draft.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 25, 2019Only 21 years old. Low risk signing to fill out the roster.
I really like moves like this. Diamond in the rough, trying to reach potential signings are all upside, little risk.
They certainly aren't sitting around doing nothing!
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Seems like this could be a symbiotic gift, given he'll be in a better learning environment w Bud wanting him to fire away freely. Plus, able to learn from other bigs who can shoot lights out. If anyone can get Dragan Bender to reach his potential, it is coach Bud. Nice signing by the Bucks.
If it works, and he realizes the potential many thought he had, it will be a complete steal. His pedigree alone should put some solid fundamentals on display, at the very least. I love that aspect of most Euro players, that they know how to play, pass, board, box out, make their FTs... usually deadly around the rim... very little wasted effort. Bender will have great mentors to learn from with Milwaukee.
The Suns are a ****ing dumpster fire. Idiots.
The Suns, much like the Kings, are an intriguing young team. Booker is one of the best pure scoring guards in the league. Ayton had a solid rookie campaign and will only get better and Oubre Jr. is pretty underrated. Like many teams they still need more talent but you can build around those guys.
Bucks ownership group continuing to get hammered by the national media for not going into the luxury tax. "Giving away Brogdon and a 10 million dollar trade exception essentially to stay under the luxury tax" is how some prominent writers are spinning this summer.
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/07...nals-khris-middleton
I find that Bender signing intriguing as well. Heck, John freaking Henson was shooting the 3 ball pretty well in this system before being injured and traded. Bender might benefit from this system as well.
As for Brogdon, it's a loss, but I feel like the Bucks did enough in the offseason to keep themselves in the elite conversation. They did an awful lot of good things even when he was hurt which I think partially went into their thinking that they could get by without him.
They would not have been able to sign Robin Lopez or Wes Matthews or some others had they resigned Brogdon.
Horst’s work these past two offseasons has been pure genius. Adding Dragan Bender to one of the best developmental coaches in the NBA will reap great benefits. This kid is going to flourish here in a backup role while he improves his game & conditioning.
He’s also got phenomenal mentors for teammates. Genius move with zero risk.
Tschmack posted:They would not have been able to sign Robin Lopez or Wes Matthews or some others had they resigned Brogdon.
I agree, but it's interesting that the national writers are continuing to push the narrative that Giannis is likely to leave to chase a title. In this case, they are trying to create the narrative rather than just report.
Hopefully, these comments (like the ESPN story that dropped literally at the buzzer of Game 6 in Toronto saying Giannis may want out) aren't coming from Giannis' inner circle.
Tschmack posted:They would not have been able to sign Robin Lopez or Wes Matthews or some others had they resigned Brogdon.
I may be in the minority, but I actually prefer George Hill to Brogdon. Especially at less than half the cost.
Brogdon is better than Hill in just about every measurable statistic. Hill is well past the 30 min/game stage of his career, which makes him significantly cheaper, but even at their peak Brogdon is the better player.
The problem is with Giannis about to double his salary and them needing to find the cheapest options available and still contend, Brogdon was a luxury they couldn’t afford. They paid Hill, Brook Lopez, and Matthews what Brogdon alone cost, and still had roster slots left for Robin Lopez, Korver, and Bender. They’re better and more experienced now, which was needed if they wanted to win a Championship.
The risk of course is injuries. Relying on older guys who of course are more susceptible to injury requires depth. That’s why they have a roster that goes 12 deep with NBA capable players:
PG: Bledsoe, Hill
SG: Matthews, Connaughton, Brown
SF: Middleton, Korver,
PF: Giannis, Ilyasova, DJ Wilson
C: Lopez, Lopez
Then you add Colson, Bender, and Divincenzo and you have your developmental players who could climb. This is a far cry from the Lakers or Rockets, who don’t have nearly this level of depth because of all they gave up to get stars. 82 games just to get there... and the Bucks will use all 15 of these guys to ensure the tires still have tread in April.
Is Brogdon a better defender? Hill certainly has more length anyway.
Hill is 6’3”... Brogdon is 6’5”. I think Brogdon is the player with more length.
And Brogdon wasn't the picture of health either.
Brogs had chronic issues with his left foot at Virginia. Had surgery to repair a bone in left foot as a Sophomore, was not ready 8 months after that surgery to return to action, then Virginia red shirted him.
With the Bucks he had a number of injuries, including a torn left quadriceps tendon in 2018 and a torn plantar fascia in his right foot at the end of last season. Had two hamstring injures in Dec. 2018. Right calf injury in January 2018 and a sprained left ankle in Oct. 2017.
Hill seems a bit more savvy and reliable. Not to begrudge Brogdon, but, the value wasn't there in my view. I liked having Brogdon on the Bucks, but the Pacers really overpaid for him, and the wealth of talent and picks we were able to acquire in exchange was remarkable. Can't help but wonder what injury is Brogdon going to suffer next? His plantar fasciitis is a chronic condition that is unlikely to go away.
We are a better team today. No doubt.
Music City posted:Hill is 6’3”... Brogdon is 6’5”. I think Brogdon is the player with more length.
I just looked it up and you are right. Hill's wingspan is 6'9" while Brogdon is at 6' 10.5'.
That’s the problem. If you knew Brogdon could stay healthy then I say you bite the bullet and resign him and eat the luxury tax hit. But he’s not been healthy. In fact, I think he’s missed 40% of games in his pro career.
There were times in the playoffs where George Hill was their 2nd best player. He shot over 40% from 3 in the postseason and harassed the shit out of Kyrie Irving and others defensively. Honestly in a 15-20 minute role he’s comparable to Brogdon and they were able to bring in Matthews and Robin Lopez and Korver for nearly the combined same price. And recouped a couple of draft picks!
Unless Brogdon stays healthy and plays at an All Star level the Bucks may have fleeced the Pacers on this one.
