Looks like it's going to be after the draft before the decision on Collins is made.
I wonder if this really changes any draft strategy or not?
When I read that article, the statement about Nick wanting a 2nd opinion from another doctor, tells me that maybe, just maybe, his surgeon told him not to play (or something)
Drafting a safety me thinks
Drafting a safety me thinks
Interesting.
I go the other way on that one Hauser- this is simply taking the time to talk to as many as MD's as possible so that IF he plays, its because he got favorable opinions in several places.
There is a huge liability here and everybody is covering their asses....while the number of ex-players suing the NFL over concussions grows every day.
I am also guessing that part of this public discussion is pre-draft subterfuge and GB is going to draft a safety regardless of what happens with Nick.
Peprah and Bush aren't really viable candidates going forward and it takes time for a safety to learn his role under Capers.
With Darren Perry still coaching - GB has the ability to develop them and I am pretty sure GB will grab a safety even if Nick is cleared
I go the other way on that one Hauser- this is simply taking the time to talk to as many as MD's as possible so that IF he plays, its because he got favorable opinions in several places.
There is a huge liability here and everybody is covering their asses....while the number of ex-players suing the NFL over concussions grows every day.
I am also guessing that part of this public discussion is pre-draft subterfuge and GB is going to draft a safety regardless of what happens with Nick.
Peprah and Bush aren't really viable candidates going forward and it takes time for a safety to learn his role under Capers.
With Darren Perry still coaching - GB has the ability to develop them and I am pretty sure GB will grab a safety even if Nick is cleared
Collins not just getting a second opinion but a third, forth and fifth.
Doctor, doctor, give me the news
Doctor, doctor, give me the news
If he's getting a 4th and 5th opinion, yes he could simply be covering all his bases but it's also possible opinions 1 and 2 and 3 may not be boding well for him and they are not as positive as what the Packers need to hear.
Because the way Im seeing it, if physician 1 and 2 and even 3 are saying "ya Nick you're good to go we like what we see" why rock the boat and then go get another 4th and 5th opinion that may throw off the good news he's gotten?
Me thinks his initial ones are either not positive OR not positive ENOUGH to satisfy MM and TT.
Regardless, unless MD Jennings is what they want in a S...I expect TT to draft Nick's replacement in about a week.
Because the way Im seeing it, if physician 1 and 2 and even 3 are saying "ya Nick you're good to go we like what we see" why rock the boat and then go get another 4th and 5th opinion that may throw off the good news he's gotten?
Me thinks his initial ones are either not positive OR not positive ENOUGH to satisfy MM and TT.
Regardless, unless MD Jennings is what they want in a S...I expect TT to draft Nick's replacement in about a week.
Even IF Nick can play again....Having a 3rd excellent safety can't hurt
quote:Originally posted by packerboi:
Because the way I'm seeing it, if physician 1 and 2 and even 3 are saying "ya Nick you're good to go we like what we see" why rock the boat and then go get another 4th and 5th opinion that may throw off the good news he's gotten?
we'll see how this all unfolds - and you know as well as any that when it comes to medical opinions- there is a wide variety of responses and none of this is black and white like a healed fracture would be
No matter which way he goes, more info and more opinions are needed, even if they cloud the issue.
Its also an interesting topic on message boards- we are all reading the same article and coming to different, sometimes opposite, conclusions
Its a fair guess the same thing is happening on the medical opinions
quote:Originally posted by packerboi:
Because the way Im seeing it, if physician 1 and 2 and even 3 are saying "ya Nick you're good to go we like what we see" why rock the boat and then go get another 4th and 5th opinion that may throw off the good news he's gotten?
Dr's 1, 2, & even 3 could all be saying surgery was successful and here are the risks - but they may not agree 100% on the risks. That may be where he is wanting more opinions.
And that I think MM may want something his doc's can't give him...and that is a virtual guarantee Collins won't be spinal cord injured OR that the risks of him getting injured are not any more then BEFORE he hurt his neck.
And maybe there are just no neurosurgeons willing to put that out there. We all know medicine is not an exact science. And the best doc's I've worked work with in healthcare probably would not "guarantee" or "promise" much of anything. With anything, there is a risk.
And maybe MM and/or the Packers medical team are asking for something that these first 3 doc's weren't willing to give or put out there.
And maybe there are just no neurosurgeons willing to put that out there. We all know medicine is not an exact science. And the best doc's I've worked work with in healthcare probably would not "guarantee" or "promise" much of anything. With anything, there is a risk.
And maybe MM and/or the Packers medical team are asking for something that these first 3 doc's weren't willing to give or put out there.
Right... the request for more opinions could be coming from Nick, the Packers, or even Nick's wife.
...or the Packers/ NFL legal teams
If he has had 3 opinions, my guess is that it is split, probably 2-1 he can play. If its 0-3 against, I can't think that any team would say it is ok just because 4 and 5 might say it is, and if it is 3-0, he wouldn't be going for another opinion. It could be 2-1 against playing, but my feeling is it is the other way.
With my father being a doctor and growing up in a medical family, I would be very, very surprised if he got 100% either way. In tough cases, doctors rarely all agree and the more opinions just further muddles the picture. (I am not refer to cases when specialists in different areas get together).
In the end, I don't think anybody on this planet really knows the risks. I know there is the study cited earlier, but the data is so limited in so many ways.
With my father being a doctor and growing up in a medical family, I would be very, very surprised if he got 100% either way. In tough cases, doctors rarely all agree and the more opinions just further muddles the picture. (I am not refer to cases when specialists in different areas get together).
In the end, I don't think anybody on this planet really knows the risks. I know there is the study cited earlier, but the data is so limited in so many ways.
Various Packers beat writers reporting that the Packers will be releasing Nick Collins.
indeed, per his agent Alan Herman that is the case
HUGE BUMMER
HUGE BUMMER
Yep. Terrible news. Wonder if he'll continue his career with another team or not. Add Safety to a big position of need now, as Peprah cannot be counted on as a starter
Here's a link. Too bad his career had to end this way, but at least he's still walking.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/148881405.html
GBPHOF material?
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/148881405.html
GBPHOF material?
Wilde is reporting that the Packers have released Collins..
He'll be a Queen by the end of the day.
Really a tough deal for everyone involved.
Really a tough deal for everyone involved.
This sucks big time.....knew we'd probably never see him in a Packers uni again, but was holding out some small hope that we would.
Hopefully this is because the Dr's and Nick agree playing isn't worth the risk anymore. I really hope he doesn't decide to go someplace else. How can you play safety in the NFL with that risk hanging over your head?
I'm sure TT has known for some time that this was the likely outcome and has prepared for tomorrow accordingly. This does mean that the person TT tabs to help improve the pass rush can not miss.
Thanks for everything Nick!
I'm sure TT has known for some time that this was the likely outcome and has prepared for tomorrow accordingly. This does mean that the person TT tabs to help improve the pass rush can not miss.
Thanks for everything Nick!
Sucks for GB, all the best to Nick. Very possible no other team is comfortable with having them play for them with the injury risk.
Thanks for everything Nick, and now comes the toughest part of all - walking away from the game, with the emphasis on "walking"
Lesser men have made completes assses of themselves in trying to leave the game they loved, here's hoping you can pull it off
Lesser men have made completes assses of themselves in trying to leave the game they loved, here's hoping you can pull it off
quote:Originally posted by Hungry5:
Sucks for GB, all the best to Nick. Very possible no other team is comfortable with having them play for them with the injury risk.
I sincerely hope this is the case. I can't imagine the feeling his new team would have if he gets hit and is lying there motionless on the field.
And I sensed with his getting a 4th and 5th medical opinion, the 1st 1-3 ones weren't very good or weren't what GB wanted to hear.
I've heard GB's medical staff is amongst the most respected in the NFL. We'll see how other teams react.
But also remember Terrence Murphy wanted to keep playing as well and was willing to hold GB harmless if they allowed him to play. They said no. And no other team picked up Murphy either.
A big round of applause to the Packer organization for placing their feelings and well being of a players long term health in front of treating him like a disposable commodity used to secure wins. Well done!
It takes some stones to step up to try and protect a player from the warrior mentaility that made them great. They told him "we care for you too much to have anything happen on our watch". It's not very common.
It takes some stones to step up to try and protect a player from the warrior mentaility that made them great. They told him "we care for you too much to have anything happen on our watch". It's not very common.
Didn't see this coming. I imagine Nick is grateful they were thinking more about his safety and future than winning. I'm sure he'd like to continue playing and I'm sure there is a team that will care more about his skills than the risks, but I hope he decides to hang it up.
His leadership and his ability will be missed back there and on the team.
His leadership and his ability will be missed back there and on the team.
There was a point in the off-season where I had hopes Collins would come back. But the last couple weeks, the fact that he wasn't cleared yet, I mentally prepared myself that it was over for him as a Packer.
He will be sorely missed like he was last year. If I see him playing for another team, it will hurt, but I understand why the Packers did what they did. And if he does play for someone else, I can't blame him for wanting to continue his career. Being in the NFL is sort of an addiction that is hard to give up for any player, even if it means literally "risking your neck".
He will be sorely missed like he was last year. If I see him playing for another team, it will hurt, but I understand why the Packers did what they did. And if he does play for someone else, I can't blame him for wanting to continue his career. Being in the NFL is sort of an addiction that is hard to give up for any player, even if it means literally "risking your neck".
BTW, cap clearance from Collins according to PFT is a little over 3 million. 1 million will still count (according to them) because that is part of his sign-on bonus.
But with another 3 mil, GB is more then comfortable under the cap now for rookie and as well as future extension talks for the key guys TT wants to keep around.
But with another 3 mil, GB is more then comfortable under the cap now for rookie and as well as future extension talks for the key guys TT wants to keep around.
Superb player....who was the dum dum around here that was calling him a bust.
I too love that photo Cjon
I too love that photo Cjon
Sucks.
Right thing to do. Thanks Nick, you finally filled the Leroy Butler hole in this team.
Woody to safety?
Right thing to do. Thanks Nick, you finally filled the Leroy Butler hole in this team.
Woody to safety?
quote:Originally posted by Iowacheese:
Superb player....who was the dum dum around here that was calling him a bust.
I too love that photo Cjon
I could be wrong, but I think Kentomagic may have been the one that thought Collins was the weak link of the team. If he really did think that, I doubt he thinks that anymore after watching the debacle of our secondary last year without him.
Ding Ding Ding winner
quote:
Originally posted by Kentomagic:
Collins is closer to Bigby than he is to "the hair." Does any one think he may have been advised to sign because there was little to expect in the market?
I thought maybe they'd hold on to him through teh draft regardless as a bit of a smoke screen, but apparently not. Good luck, Nick.
Releasing him just before the draft suggests there is a reason for doing that
One could surmise that Nick wants a shot with another team and GB granted him his release. Purely speculation
One could surmise that Nick wants a shot with another team and GB granted him his release. Purely speculation
I bought a Nick Collins jersey at the beginning of the 2010 season. It was an honor to watch him play that season and I lost it when he took the pick six back in the Super Bowl.
Sad, sad day it is.
Sad, sad day it is.
kento called Collins a weakness in the secondary and said he shouldn't be in the Pro Bowl. His loss last year was huge for the secondary. He was alot better than Darren Sharper ever was.
Here is the full press release from packers.com
"The Green Bay Packers have released S Nick Collins. The transaction was announced Wednesday by Executive Vice President, General Manager and Director of Football Operations Ted Thompson.
Collins, who was selected by the Packers with the first of two second-round selections (No. 51 overall) in the 2005 NFL Draft, went on to appear in 95 games (all starts) at free safety during his seven-year career in Green Bay. During that time, he amassed 498 tackles (388 solo), 21 interceptions, including four returned for touchdowns, 83 passes defensed, five forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries.
From 2008-10, Collins ranked second among all NFL players with 439 interception return yards and was tied for second among safeties with 17 INTs over that span. In 2008, he set a franchise record with 295 INT return yards and became the first NFL safety since 1986 to return three INTs for TDs in a season. In 2010, Collins became the first Packers safety since LeRoy Butler to earn a bid to three consecutive Pro Bowls, and capped his season with a 37-yard INT return for a touchdown in Super Bowl XLV. He missed just three games in his first six seasons in the league, but was sidelined for the final 14 contests of 2011 after suffering a season-ending neck injury at Carolina in Week 2.
"From the beginning of this process, we have taken our time and sought numerous medical opinions while maintaining consistent dialogue with Nick," Thompson said. "In the end, we were not comfortable clearing him to play again. As with all of our players, Nick is a member of our family and we thought of him that way as we came to this conclusion.
"Nick is a part of our core, and this is a very difficult day for all Packers. Making this kind of decision is never easy, especially when it involves someone like Nick Collins. He has meant so much to the community, his teammates and the organization. He is a good man and will always be part of the Packers family."
"The Green Bay Packers have released S Nick Collins. The transaction was announced Wednesday by Executive Vice President, General Manager and Director of Football Operations Ted Thompson.
Collins, who was selected by the Packers with the first of two second-round selections (No. 51 overall) in the 2005 NFL Draft, went on to appear in 95 games (all starts) at free safety during his seven-year career in Green Bay. During that time, he amassed 498 tackles (388 solo), 21 interceptions, including four returned for touchdowns, 83 passes defensed, five forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries.
From 2008-10, Collins ranked second among all NFL players with 439 interception return yards and was tied for second among safeties with 17 INTs over that span. In 2008, he set a franchise record with 295 INT return yards and became the first NFL safety since 1986 to return three INTs for TDs in a season. In 2010, Collins became the first Packers safety since LeRoy Butler to earn a bid to three consecutive Pro Bowls, and capped his season with a 37-yard INT return for a touchdown in Super Bowl XLV. He missed just three games in his first six seasons in the league, but was sidelined for the final 14 contests of 2011 after suffering a season-ending neck injury at Carolina in Week 2.
"From the beginning of this process, we have taken our time and sought numerous medical opinions while maintaining consistent dialogue with Nick," Thompson said. "In the end, we were not comfortable clearing him to play again. As with all of our players, Nick is a member of our family and we thought of him that way as we came to this conclusion.
"Nick is a part of our core, and this is a very difficult day for all Packers. Making this kind of decision is never easy, especially when it involves someone like Nick Collins. He has meant so much to the community, his teammates and the organization. He is a good man and will always be part of the Packers family."
quote:Originally posted by Satori:
Releasing him just before the draft suggests there is a reason for doing that
One could surmise that Nick wants a shot with another team and GB granted him his release. Purely speculation
Obviously safety is going to play into the best defensive player available in the higher rounds. Trumaine Johnson or Harrison Smith may be holding better value than any OLB or DE at 28.