Who thinks if Adams was removed from the WR corp of the Packers it would easily be the worst receiving corp in the NFL?
Feel free to add comments as to how Gork seems to hate WR as much as ILB.
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Najeh Davenport put the shit in a laundry basket, not in bed, thank you very much.
I thought it was chocolate yogurt. I don’t much know emoji thingys
when's Lazard come back? say what you will, difference maker
Lizard is reportedly coming back as soon as this week. Per reports today, he's "very close". In the video clips from practice last week and today, he's moving around pretty well.
As far as Adams, he's arguably the best WR in the NFC currently and most pundits would put him in the top 3 league-wide.
It sure would be nice to have a legit AND consistent #2 WR. Maybe they have that with Lizard. But he's also coming off sports hernia surgery so it really depends how close he can be to the guy we saw at New Orleans. My guess is once activated, he'll need a couple weeks to get back into football mode/shape.
Then they'll have two WR who actually belong in the NFL.
When I open this thread I expected it to be about Pats. vs. Jets. Time to put this game to bed too.
I’m not ready to say MVS doesn’t belong in the NFL, but he gets exposed a bit when he’s the #2 option. I’m just happy he played better after the brutal drop that cost them a possession.
It’s the guys after MVS in the rotation that are questionable NFL players. MVS belongs in the NFL but in a perfect world he’d probably be the #4 WR instead of #2 like he’s bern forced to be the last few weeks.
@Henry posted:Then they'll have two WR who actually belong in the NFL.
Wait, so Lazard's off the "dog shit" list of 20 minutes ago in the Rashan Gary thread?
(Henry: "This WR corp is a giant block of unshaped clay. Only problem is the clay is actually dog shit with leaves stuck in it.")
I'm just trying to keep up. Scrub last year, dog shit 20 minutes ago, now belongs in the NFL. Got it.
And of course the GM and the coach aren't in your club so I guess they're dog shit too. That's some expensive doggy poo Hank!
There is no receiving core in the league that can match the Packers receivers in my imagination.
If nothing else, Lazard was trending towards being a legit #2 WR before he got hurt. For a guy as big as he is, he moves well, is physical and has worked his ass off to become a pretty dependable WR.
He’s a solid fit for this system where his blocking and physicality come in handy. If he was in a high volume downfield pass scheme like Mccarthy used to run, he might not be as effective.
One year later, as we sit today, the needs of this team are exactly the same ones in 2019.
They still need a dynamic, speedy slot WR type to pair with Adams. Again, maybe that's Lazard. But it's not MVS and it's not EQ either. Dudes like Malik Taylor are just that. Just dudes.
And they need a play making/run stuffing ILB/DT. Kris Barnes, Lowry, Monty Adams and Ty Summers...see the above. Also just guys.
My confidence in Gute lessens each season when we see what his drafts produce. Or more importantly don't produce.
And I am not terribly confident he'll fix these same issues in 2021 while watching the window of our HOF QB close a little bit more and more.
Without looking, who are the top 2, or top 3 WRs in KC?
A few years ago the league instituted a rookie salary cap which, IMO, significantly changed the need to hit on a high percentage of draft picks and avoid the costly mistakes. Get football players - draft them, sign FAs, pick up UDFAs, doesn't matter. Find football players.
Packers have a top 5 QB and an offensive coach who seems to be able to scheme match up issues. Rodgers is putting up MVP numbers with Adams, Jones, Williams, Runyan, Lazard, MVS, Lewis, Sternberger... would it be any different if they had Sammy Watkins opposite Adams?
@Pistol GB posted:Wait, so Lazard's off the "dog shit" list of 20 minutes ago in the Rashan Gary thread?
(Henry: "This WR corp is a giant block of unshaped clay. Only problem is the clay is actually dog shit with leaves stuck in it.")
I'm just trying to keep up. Scrub last year, dog shit 20 minutes ago, now belongs in the NFL. Got it.
And of course the GM and the coach aren't in your club so I guess they're dog shit too. That's some expensive doggy poo Hank!
I guess we'll have to take this ass beating up 15 notches. And here I thought you were done. Man, your MVS love is something else. Tschmack at least makes a point to obsess over a pro-bowler that could've made a huge difference to the team. You chose Corey Bradford.
Adams, one of the best in the league. Take him off the squad and Lazard is now your #1. Do you honestly believe Lazard is a #1? Of course you do. You think MVS is a legit #2 and should be employed in the NFL. I've said it constantly as you trotted out #1 in separation stats, this team has 1 1/2 WRs, maybe 2. There is literally nothing behind them. Nothing. 2 guys doesn't make a WR corp.
Put down the glass and focus for the impending asswhooping that's coming your way for the rest of the season. Just remember, you picked this fight. So when you're squealing about how mean I am, again, you can recall this post. Then you can slink off per usual.
Also, I think you should have two monikers because it's pretty obvious Liquor Man is posting when you stick your head in the woodchipper like this.
I'm looking forward to your takes on ILB and DT next. I hear that Ty Summers is a real superstar. Patrick Queen, Ty Summers, same thing.
I'd like another WR, but when they get beat in the playoffs it will be because they can't stop the run. Adams is a superstar WR, Lazard is serviceable #3 WR, and MVS is Corey Bradford Part 2. Tonyan gives them at least average TE play and M. Lewis is a great blocker. The OL is elite at 3 positions, Jones is a Pro Bowler, and they have a top 10 QB all-time. The offense is probably not going to be the problem.
Here's the losses in the MLF era.
Eagles loss, 2019. 33 carries, 176 yards for Philly.
Chargers loss, 2019: 38 carries, 159 yards for LAC.
Niners loss, 2019 playoffs: 42 carries, 285 yards.
Niners loss, 2019 regular season: 22 carries, 112 yards. (George Kittle killed them)
Bucs loss, 2020, 35 carries, 158 yards.
Vikings loss, 2020, 34 carries, 173 yards.
Don't tell Liquor Man that. He's looking forward to the Super Bowl.
Maybe Gute looked at all the team needs and thought we have Devante Adams, Devon Funchess, Allen Lazard, MVS, etc.....that’s a pretty good top four wide receiver group. Oops... not when MVS has to be counted on.
It was also said by supposed insiders that the Packers really wanted Aiyuk in Rd1.....San Fran jumped in front of them with their 2nd 1st round pick.
They are having incredible success largely due to Rodgers and Adams, but also because Aaron Jones is a hell of a receiving back and Lafluffers offense is so good at scheming the TE and developing so many route concepts.
Too bad we didn’t get to see Funchess and Lazard as compliments do Davante, that could have been solid.
It doesn't seem like some of you guys enjoy watching the Packers. You know you're allowed to just turn it off, right?
Watkins. 21 rcpts, 222 yds, 2 TD ( 5 games )
Lazard. 13, 254, 2 ( 3 games )
I love football, because it is the ultimate team game.
Wow Henry, you really think you are something else, when all you are is a little bitch who does nothing but bitch. Ass whooping? How and Why? We're winning dumbass, and it doesn't look like the winning is going to stop. And if it does stop, it's not going to be on the offense but where it ended last year, on the run defense.
So I'm not sure what it is that I'm supposed to be afraid of. Continued offensive dominance?
Scoreboard dumbass: 6-2 with this WR corps, 6-2 with a rookie WR, 6-2 with a future-mortgaging free agent. The "Packers receivers suck except Adams" has been a complete bitch without consequence. It's just bitching for the sake of bitching, or because you've somehow wrapped your whole online existence around it and can't even stand a little disagreement without getting your panties all bunched up.
So yeah, put me down as supporting the GM's decision to start the season with these WR's and not spending money they don't have on a FA, or trading the future away for a 6 month rental. Why put me there? Because it's fucking working. Scoreboard bitch: Why complain so much if it's working?
And how is 14-3 and 6-2 a "straw man" exactly? I thought winning was the point.
Again, obviously, it would be great to have another Pro Bowler behind Adams, but just as obviously, we don't need one to win, and Lazard, MVS, Taylor and Shephard are filling in just fine. And they certainly aren't "dog shit."
Different topic, but since you brought it up: I didn't agree with the Love pick (I wanted Queen) and if Summers starts, the defense is in trouble. But just like last year, that won't be the WR's fault.
But I'm also sure that won't stop you from blaming them, so go ahead and carry your little mantra right into the New Year buddy. Maybe you can get them to not let the WR's touch the Lombardi or something. Wouldn't want dog shit on it.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:I'd like another WR, but when they get beat in the playoffs it will be because they can't stop the run. Adams is a superstar WR, Lazard is serviceable #3 WR, and MVS is Corey Bradford Part 2. Tonyan gives them at least average TE play and M. Lewis is a great blocker. The OL is elite at 3 positions, Jones is a Pro Bowler, and they have a top 10 QB all-time. The offense is probably not going to be the problem.
Here's the losses in the MLF era.
Eagles loss, 2019. 33 carries, 176 yards for Philly.
Chargers loss, 2019: 38 carries, 159 yards for LAC.
Niners loss, 2019 playoffs: 42 carries, 285 yards.
Niners loss, 2019 regular season: 22 carries, 112 yards. (George Kittle killed them)
Bucs loss, 2020, 35 carries, 158 yards.
Vikings loss, 2020, 34 carries, 173 yards.
Pretty clear what the problem is, the wide receivers can’t stop the run.
—PacklandVA January 19, 2020 (attributed)
Yeah, I knew this would turn into "I guess I have to explain why you're a moron" thread.
Here's a hint, your obsession with shitty WRs and actually deciding to pick a fight over a year and half of failure.
This must be what it's like to engage a QAnon loon. Join any new clubs lately?
@Packdog posted:Maybe Gute looked at all the team needs and thought we have Devante Adams, Devon Funchess, Allen Lazard, MVS, etc.....that’s a pretty good top four wide receiver group. Oops... not when MVS has to be counted on.
It was also said by supposed insiders that the Packers really wanted Aiyuk in Rd1.....San Fran jumped in front of them with their 2nd 1st round pick.
They are having incredible success largely due to Rodgers and Adams, but also because Aaron Jones is a hell of a receiving back and Lafluffers offense is so good at scheming the TE and developing so many route concepts.
Too bad we didn’t get to see Funchess and Lazard as compliments do Davante, that could have been solid.
Fair point about Funchess. I keep forgetting he dropped out. Even if he was a bargain basement pickup he was light years ahead of MVS and ESB, the latter who I had great hopes for this season.
But the reality is this thread is about to turn into a nuclear wasteland. The reason why is simple. Liquor Man literally tried to pick a fight over the play of the WRs last year.
He also thinks trying to ping pong around on other people's points to find shelter from his original idiocy, many points which I share or originally voiced, is going to distract me from performing a vivisection.
The fact he continues to use old tropes like "I trust the guys who are paid to do this" while attempting to go full obfuscating Jaymo will not end well. He might as well step in front of truck instead.
It will end in wailing and gnashing of teeth.
@H5 posted:Watkins. 21 rcpts, 222 yds, 2 TD ( 5 games )
Lazard. 13, 254, 2 ( 3 games )
I love football, because it is the ultimate team game.
You picked Watkins. You could've said Will Fuller or any other competent receiver and I would've given you the same response. To say upgrading over MVS or ESB really wouldn't make a difference seems pretty damn silly. These two guys aren't even reliable depth at this point. Mayo and Rodgers along with Jones and Swervin' are doing the same thing as last year. The difference is getting production out of the TE spot. That changes nothing about the WR corp ineffectiveness.
I'm not going to let this thread take a detour to give Liquor Man cover. That's just the way it's going to be. This is now a mission. I can't stand scuttling for cover after lobbing bullshit half facts. Like I said before, this is Jaymo/QAnon shit and that don't float with me.
The straw that broke the camel's back? None, I was going to dismantle him anyways. Liquorman's last post about the run defense is what's really going to ratchet up the "Henry is mean" squealing. It may have already started. I haven't read that TL; Don't Give a Shit post of his yet.
Edit: I forgot to add, saying the WR corp as it stands is okay because of other positions are producing is like saying "ILB really isn't that big of deal because they have The Smiths, KC and Jaire Alexander making up for ILB". Would the defense be better with something other than scrubs at ILB? Why yes, it would.
What the heck is gute stockpiling draft picks for, instead of making trades?
Drafting is not exactly his forte.
It's not "can't stop the run" OR "lack of talent at WR" that can lead to losses. Seems to me that if you can't stop the run, which eventually leads to not stopping points, you then need to score more points to keep up. Or maybe even win. Having more talent around AR would seem to be a strategy to accomplish that. The only glaring lack of talent on O is at WR.
Having one more legit WR would also stop defenses from quad covering Adams and stacking the box against Jones and Williams. Mayo and Rodgers have been resourceful but when the rubber meets the road they have not fared well against better teams. If you don't have the defense you better be obscenely high powered on offense particularly against playoff teams.
The Packers will make the playoffs but if they run into a team like Tampa or a healthy 9ers team I think we know what's going to happen.
This is why making stupid comments like "they went 13-3 last year and you bitched about the WRs". They also got bounced in a hurry because of the freeway in the middle of the defense and WRs not named Adams were "great blockers" instead of competent receivers.
Do we remember the WRB position from last year? I do. It's inventive in how Mayo used Jones, etc. but it's also the equivalent of scraping too little butter over too much toast (tip o' the cap to Tolkien).
Aren't the Packers undefeated when Davante was injured and on the sidelines? Someone stepped up to cover for him. Tonyan was that guy. Lazard was that guy. MVS was that guy, but mostly for his blocking, and not his receiving, when Davante was out. Jones and Williams led the team with their running and receiving skills. I think we do need a stud WR to complement Davante. Give us Davante, The Stud WR, Lazard and our RBs and our offense could be almost unstoppable. Then, let's look at our Defense. We could use a DT who could complement Clark. Montravious Adams and Keke have been doing just okay there. We are getting gashed on run defense. Was Kirksey the plug on run defense? Maybe, but I doubt it.. He has been injured for a while, now. How about Barnes and Kamal? Both are now injured. Summers? He is serviceable, as a depth player. Queen could have answered the questions at ILB, that GB needed answered. So what does GB need to do to get the players they need? We cannot draft like we did in this last draft, especially when we need to fill the holes we have at ILB, DT, WR. It does not seem that FA offers much that the Packers need, either, or one would think Gute would have made some moves there. I say this as players that Gute did go after in FA, recently, accepted offers from other teams. Trading for another player at one of our positions of need would, most likely cost us draft capital, and is no guarantee that who we traded for, would be an improvement over what we have. I think we need to draft smarter and we need to make our scouts do their jobs in looking for talent. We need to use FA when the talent we need, is there.
Imagine how different this squad would be if the Packers had drafted Chase Claypool who has quickly become PIT's #1 WR target...who had all the measurables Gutey babbles on about...length (6'4), size (248lbs), catch radius...oh and he ran a 4.42 at the combine compared to Lazard's 4.55.
Food for thought:
Receiver depth
While the depth of the Packers' receiving core remains in doubt, it has been better than a year ago. In 2019, the Packers failed to produce multiple 500-yard receivers for the first time in a 16-game season. They joined Washington as the only other NFL team with only one 500-yard receiver last season. This year, the Packers are on track to have a trio of 500-yard receivers, led by Davante Adams’ 675 yards. The emergence of tight end Robert Tonyan (314 yards) and recover of receiver Marquez Valdes-Scantling (also 314 yards) has been important to rounding out the pass game. Since the 1990 New York Giants won Super Bowl XXV against the Buffalo Bills, no team over the past 30 years has reached the Super Bowl without multiple 500-yard receivers.
MVS stats buffed for a couple of one trick pony plays against SF JV squad. Stats rarely tell the whole story. MVS does not round out the pass game. You want to know why? Because I have eyes in my head and Davante is regularly swarmed in DBs.
What's the link BTW?
Again, chat it up. The inevitable is coming for Liquor Man.
I picked Watkins because he is the #2 in KC and is not expected to give them significant production because, like the Packers, they have numerous offensive weapons with a top tier #1 WR. Though Adams is way better than Hill as an overall WR.
The Packers problem is stopping the run. Pettine schemes to stop the pass, but that is dependent on the O starting quick and imposing their will on the opposing D and make the opposing O 1 dimensional. I'd like to see them take more chances with man and stacking the box. Jaire, King, Sullivan, Savage, Amos, Greene have all shown they can attack the LOS.
We should put this shit to bed about the Packers WRs. Nothing is changing with that this year, other than getting Lazard back. I'd rather bitch about Dom Pettine not putting his players in position to succeed. Attack the O and impose your will like the MiLF does with the play calling. I believe the talent is there on D.
If we had to choose between upgrading the WR group or updating the run D, put me in the run D camp. I'm not implying that I think Gute has done a good job with the WR, group, he simply has not, it's just that he has done a worse job with the DL.
Draft Picks on roster
K. Clark vs D. Adams
M, Adams vs MVS
Keke vs ESB
Lowry vs Empty
UDFA or Late Round FA Pickups
Winn vs Lazard
Lancaster vs Shepherd
Empty vs Taylor
I think the offense, when fully healthy, has enough to take this team to the promise land. Adams / Lazard / Tonyan / Jones give you a threat or options to win at every skill position. Balanced and unpredictable.
The defense on the other hand, simply cannot stop a power run game. They are unbalanced with the vast majority of talent dedicated to stopping the pass.
Not the point. You pick a fight over last year's WR production as some claim to their 13-3 record while making stupid statements about shitty WR in connection to run defense you're in for a bad time.
This is the same clown who decided to take the shot then proceed with all the bog standard homer lines about "trusting Gorp" and then make that comment about the run D?
I don't think so.
The conversation is also relevant to the very fact Gunk ignored the possibility of supercharging this offense to help cover for atrocious ILB/DT (outside of Kenny) play.
Again, my points about run D, WR are pretty clear.
It's coming, I just have to give more of a shit at the moment. Think of it as a teaser.
MVS in 2020, his stat padding efforts...
4 for 96 & 1 TD vs MIN, 3 for 64 v DET, 4 for 45 v ATL, 3 for 32 v TAM, 2 for 53 & 2 TD vs SFO.
MVS is a #3/4 who at times has been asked to step up to the #2. He can stretch the field and he occasionally finds the open space.
On the year he is 18 for 314, 3 TDs. Looking across the league that's solid for a #3.
Losing Lazard (and possibly Funchess - though I was not sold on him being the #2) has been the bigger challenge to the O with respect to the WRs.
Okay, how about this question. Who thinks the WR corp, Adams removed, was NFL caliber last year with their great blocking and #1 in separation?
That's probably where I should've started this.
Then we'll move onto the homer commentary spewed about last year's WR corp. Then we'll move onto the draft that didn't happen. Then we'll explore the connection between Liquor Man's comments about last year's WR corp and the run defense this year.
Here's the second question. Do you enjoy Jaymo like squirming in relation to talking about football, particularly when it comes to straight up facts?