Sorta like Brady and all his new guys....
Pikes Peak posted:Sorta like Brady and all his new guys....
Brady has handled this much different than Favre or Rodgers appear to have. Maybe Belichick is just a stronger presence than MM.
Aaron has been off on his throws. No denying it.
One Super Bowl win a piece between Favre and Rodgers would be a travesty. Unfortunately, that looks like it might be outcome.
Threads and the comments herein like this make me wonder why I skipped town. Well done folks.
This was a good article. Pointed out some definite warning signs about where AR is going from here. I think the article also takes a veiled swipe at MM and his ability to coach up Rodgers or are we going to watch this tailspin continue. If it does, MM will come out on the short end of the stick...and that might not be a bad thing.
Go back to the basics. AR should become a game manager until he returns to the basics and performs them well. Go back to the short throws, the slants, etc. And if there's one thing the article pointed out, it's that no one criticizes AR. Why not? It's the place of the coaches to criticize the players and point out their flaws and then help correct them. Treating AR with kid gloves is not the way to help him or the team. Isn't that what we've all complained about with Favre?
If we go back to the gold standard, I don't think Belicek lets Brady get away with boneheaded plays or the prima dona attitude.
I think the team's slide dates back to the soul-crushing playoff loss to Seattle. Even a good coach has a shelf life and MM and DC have expired. When's the last time they jumped up and beat a great team? Even Holmy's act wore thin at some point.
It would appear teams have simply decided to rush 4, keep AR in the pocket and use 7 to cover 4 recievers running isolation routes. Let AR get frustrated that no ones getting open and eventually start forcing things. None of this excuses the bad throw to a wide open Cobb or coughing the ball up inside the 5.
Its either 7 or 6 in coverage with one spying Rodgers so he can't get outside the pocket. Let him sit in the pocket for 10 seconds, doesn't matter because he ain't making the throws from there.
Exactly Chili and Brainded. It used to be that teams that can pressure Rodgers by only rushing 4 would rattle him. Now it seems like almost any team that rushes 4 can rattle Rodgers even if there is no pressure. That missed throw to Cobb in the end zone was unreal. Whatever is wrong with AR, it seems to be in his head.
BartManDude posted:Exactly Chili and Brainded. It used to be that teams that can pressure Rodgers by only rushing 4 would rattle him. Now it seems like almost any team that rushes 4 can rattle Rodgers even if there is no pressure. That missed throw to Cobb in the end zone was unreal. Whatever is wrong with AR, it seems to be in his head.
Lack of meat, dairy, and add in Yoko.
It is what it is. **** it. Prove me wrong 12.
It's really, really discouraging that Dallas ran the same defense NY did last week. Almost like the thinking was "they will absolutely run the same routes"
Rush 4. Hold the pocket together. Let 7 guys stare at Rodgers. I mean, this is what teams did to Mike Vick. And yet Mike keeps running the same tired bull**** at the blueprint.
Yes, a healthy Lacy probably gets 30 carries today. But when he started breaking down MM had no plan B.
Randall Cobb. Wide open in the back of the end zone on a free play. (12 men on field) Rodgers fires WILDLY high.
That throw is the epitome of Rodgers & the entire Packer season.
He used to make that throw in his sleep. He's done.
Time to step aside & let's see what Hundley can do.
Boris posted:Time to step aside & let's see what Hundley can do.
I would LOVE to see that happen. At least we would have a better idea of where the problem is or isn't.
NedFlanders posted:I think the team's slide dates back to the soul-crushing playoff loss to Seattle. Even a good coach has a shelf life and MM and DC have expired. When's the last time they jumped up and beat a great team? Even Holmy's act wore thin at some point.
Yep. I too look back on that crushing defeat in the last two minutes of that Seattle game. Sure, they started hot last year until they went to Denver (after a BYE) and got hammered. Since then it all has been downhill and sliding fast. Rodgers is just the focal point because he is the franchise face. But last year's troubles are still this year's problems, only worse. Look at all the fumbles and dropped passes again...the incessant issue with WRs unable to get open. Lacy looks good but he is still overweight. Who is calling the play wasn't the real problem last year and it isn't this season. Maybe it is the plays and the philosophy and the coaches inability to reach and motivate the players. The team's troubles are resting between their ears and McCarthy ain't getting it done any longer like he used to.
11 years to last in one city with one team is an accomplishment in it of itself. BUT in my opinion, MM has reached and passed his prime in Green Bay. Time to move on.
BartManDude posted:Exactly Chili and Brainded. It used to be that teams that can pressure Rodgers by only rushing 4 would rattle him. Now it seems like almost any team that rushes 4 can rattle Rodgers even if there is no pressure.
Dougherty: A new book on stopping Rodgers
Piece by Dougherty about the new strategy- keep him in the pocket with four and he can't beat you, pressure or no pressure.
Fandame posted:If we go back to the gold standard, I don't think Belicek lets Brady get away with boneheaded plays or the prima dona attitude.
There is no bigger prima donna than Tom Brady. BB may use that better than anyone but Brady's ego is probably bigger than Favre's and Rodgers' combined.
The issue to me is in the execution. Too many missed opportunities again. I am not saying that MM is not an issue, but the main problem is that the passes are not being completed and plays are not being made that are right there to be made. Yes, there needs to be a counter punch to make this current way of defending this offense. I am thinking that Lacy, if healthy, would have been the antidote. Only (1) viable and not healthy running option? That is ludicrous. The pass to RR over the middle (that still could have been caught, but RR should have been led and still be running down the field) and the horrible overthrow to Cobb (similar route/pass to the non TD TD pass from the week before to Cobb but on the other side of the field).
My FIL always talks about how when Starr used to have a rough game how Bratkowski used to come in and spell him. When MM saddled Brett and made him play within the system, he had an amazing season until old man winter caught up with him and we all know that Rodgers should have played in that NFC Championship game. I am thinking that unfortunately it might take a real injury to Arod just to get Hundley on the field even in a mop up roll. Not saying that Arod should be benched, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if he did.
That is exactly what I've said in other threads. They don't have much to lose by seeing if Hundley can spark the offense other than leaving Erin with some butthurt.
There were two topics raised during the broadcast yesterday that held some water. Yes, defenses have become too familiar with MM's offense and he needs to be more creative. However, it was also pointed out that AR is just not seeing the field like he used to. Though it hasn't been as often as in the past, we HAVE seen open WR's this season that AR is either not seeing or deciding not to throw to. That gives me some hope that MM isn't completely at a dead end.
The starting pitcher doesn't have any control. Time for a reliever. I think giving Hundley a look might be just the medicine that AR needs to remember that nothing is given in this game, and he's replaceable too.
ChilliJon posted:It's really, really discouraging that Dallas ran the same defense NY did last week. Almost like the thinking was "they will absolutely run the same routes"
Rush 4. Hold the pocket together. Let 7 guys stare at Rodgers. I mean, this is what teams did to Mike Vick. And yet Mike keeps running the same tired bull**** at the blueprint.
Yes, a healthy Lacy probably gets 30 carries today. But when he started breaking down MM had no plan B.
I'd disagree with you on MM running the same thing at the blueprint.
From a JSonline.com column this morning from Dougherty:
http://www.packersnews.com/sto...ng-rodgers/92103976/
McCarthy basically threw everything he had at the Cowboys. After dabbling in using more personnel groupings the last couple games, he went all-in Sunday by shuttling personnel on and off the field snap after snap. The one that might have worked best was when he went with five receivers, or four receivers and a tight end, sometimes with Ty Montgomery lined up in the backfield, and sometimes with the backfield empty.
Three things were the major causes of the loss yesterday.
1. Rodgers
2. The cluster*&*@ in terms of roster moves at RB.
3. They ran out of DBs.
They tried a lot of different things yesterday. Rodgers was a major problem. There were also problems that were more TT's fault than anything else.
If teams are playing 7 or 8 guys back to stop the pass, then that's a game Lacy should have gotten 30 carries in. It would run more clock, take pressure off a depleted secondary, and set up more play action over the middle by preventing the LBs from getting dropped back into the zone. Instead, we went into the season with Lacy (whose running style exposes him to getting nicked up) and a 30 year old backup at RB with no one else on the roster as a true ball carrier. Lacy ran tough, but he wasn't able to take 30 carries of pounding and Starks was out. Monty did well taking swing passes out of the backfield, but running between the tackles is not something he's used to or built for and it exposes you to fumbles when you get hit by 350 pound guys. Why the hell do you keep 7 receivers (and not play one of them at all) and keep 3 total RBs, 2 of which are old or prone to injury and the other guy is a blocking FB? You can't even run a draw very effectively and there was little threat of a screen pass - which depends on timing.
You can excuse them for running out of DBs. How often do you lose your top 3 DBs - 2 of them either during the game or the day before. However, if you keep a bunch of UDFAs because they are cheap and developable, they better be ready to play. They clearly aren't. Hawkins, Gunther, Goodson all took turns being toasted over the last few weeks. They should be getting a veteran DB in today to play on Thursday. They could bring a guy off the street who at least knows how to play the position in terms of technique. Gunther played some of the worst technique I've ever seen at the position. The long play at the end of the first half was inexcusable. The problem is the rest of the defense is working well and if Dom changes schemes to protect the CBs, then the run defense probably completely collapses.
Maybe Rodgers needs to get his eyes checked?
A lot of the problem is the slow return of Nelson from the ACL injury. The offense desperately needs a legitimate deep threat and there just isn't one right now. The Packers are one of the worst teams in the league in 20+ yard plays. Some of that is on Rodgers' poor play, but with Nelson being what he is right now, this is a very weak receiving corps relative to other years. A lot of them are young. Maybe they'll develop into good #3 guys or lower, but the team does not have a good #1 guy right now, and it shows.
I thought MM should have gone 5 wide the entire game. MM ended up there in large part when Eddie started breaking down. Even then. Going 5 wide is half the equation. If it's 5 isolation routes then nothing's really being gained.
This can be fixed. But MM needs to dust off some old combo routes. And FFS AR needs to hit open recievers.
By the way. Props to Lacy for going as hard and long as he did yesterday on a bad wheel. Admirable stuff.
I think Rodgers needs a sports psychologist assuming he doesn't have one now. It couldn't hurt.
demisod posted:A lot of the problem is the slow return of Nelson from the ACL injury. The offense desperately needs a legitimate deep threat and there just isn't one right now. The Packers are one of the worst teams in the league in 20+ yard plays. Some of that is on Rodgers' poor play, but with Nelson being what he is right now, this is a very weak receiving corps relative to other years. A lot of them are young. Maybe they'll develop into good #3 guys or lower, but the team does not have a good #1 guy right now, and it shows.
You're right on this. Nelson is right now what Antonio Freeman was towards the end of his career. He's only 14 months removed from an ACL reconstruction, but he's also 31 years old. Right now he's a good #3 receiver - good routes, but he's also somewhat hesitant which may explain the recent drops and turnovers. This is completely reasonable given that he is coming back from a serious injury. Cobb and Monty are both good slot receivers. Adams is a good #4 - more like a James Jones. RichRod is a good #2 TE, but he is slower than molasses. Lacy isn't going to run away from anyone. There is very little speed on the field and no true #1 in the traditional sense.
Nelson - possession receiver at this point
Adams - possession receiver
Cobb - slot
Monty - slot
RichRod - 2nd TE
That's who is getting the snaps. If Rodgers was playing at the same level he was 2 years ago, this would be enough - there were clearly guys open yesterday that he missed.
It was only for a couple of plays, but the burst that Janis showed on one of his two catches was really apparent relative to the other receivers even though it was only a short gain. They need to get Janis and T. Davis on the field to change things up. And if they aren't going to play Abby, cut him and bring in a real backup RB. Preferably, someone who can give a little bit of change of pace. You already have Cobb and Monty that play the same position. Why keep 3 slot receivers?
Boris posted:Are some of us considering wanting to trade Rodgers for a couple 1st rounders, 2nd rounders & 3rd rounders?
Wow! You said it!
I wrote that on the MJS board circa 1998/99 about a different QB and almost had to go into witness protection.
This is not a very good team right now and AR is by far the most valuable asset. Being where he is in his career he isn't likely to surpass the benchmarks he's already established. I think MM's offensive scheme is part of the problem but I think the fix is one that removes much of the freedom AR has in execution. My impression is he would be unlikely to embrace a mechanic's role like Brady has.
The downfield passing game has a limitation similar to what Dom Capers sees in the 4-3 defense. The required skills in the required bodies just aren't that common.
Packy posted:I think Rodgers needs a sports psychologist assuming he doesn't have one now. It couldn't hurt.
It may be beyond that. Rodgers is very smart guy who already has tens of millions of dollars in the bank. He's had multiple concussions and has to be worried about his CTE risk in the future. He looks like he's just not mentally into it anymore, but it's not like he's going to get any other job that pays him even 1% of what he's making now (20 million a year). I'm not saying he's not working hard - he is committed to being in great shape and it's not like he forgot how to read defenses all of sudden. I just think maybe in the back of his mind he's thinking "should I really be doing this at this point?"
I wonder if Rodgers agent went to managment and told them they needed to revisit his contract to what everyone else has and managment told him they werent interested. Aaron does have a sensitive side to him and if he feels slighted by management I would see it affecting his performance.
demisod posted:A lot of the problem is the slow return of Nelson from the ACL injury. The offense desperately needs a legitimate deep threat and there just isn't one right now. The Packers are one of the worst teams in the league in 20+ yard plays. Some of that is on Rodgers' poor play, but with Nelson being what he is right now, this is a very weak receiving corps relative to other years. A lot of them are young. Maybe they'll develop into good #3 guys or lower, but the team does not have a good #1 guy right now, and it shows.
This is why I was thinking they might go WR in RD1 this last May. They got nothin' in the hopper that looks like they will develop into a #1 in the next couple years. The Kenny Clark pick could become very useful but this offense really needs a #1WR.
The offense desperately needs a legitimate deep threat and there just isn't one right now.
Davis
I actually think what's hurting them the most is RB position.
Teams aren't afraid of the Packers running game and they are selling out to stop the pass- and it's working. Quite frankly, it's been working for a while now.
Lacy can make a difference when he's healthy but clearly he's not there right now. Starks was a hot mess before he got hurt and he's not getting any younger. Who else is there on the roster? Nobody.
This is a problem - a big problem- and I don't think GB can pass their way out of it.
demisod posted:A lot of the problem is the slow return of Nelson from the ACL injury. The offense desperately needs a legitimate deep threat and there just isn't one right now. The Packers are one of the worst teams in the league in 20+ yard plays. Some of that is on Rodgers' poor play, but with Nelson being what he is right now, this is a very weak receiving corps relative to other years. A lot of them are young. Maybe they'll develop into good #3 guys or lower, but the team does not have a good #1 guy right now, and it shows.
I found a comment by Aikman to be interesting....he said "I've always thought that your passing game is only as good as how good your third WR is". He then talked about Adams, comparing him to other third receivers we've had when the offense was more effective. It was obvious that Aikman thinks Adams is not very good.
Disagree. Kind of. GB has a stable of recievers that are built to run combo routes to create for other WRs. It's all ISO heavy BS with guys that aren't built to beat man coverage.
Would a true number 1 help? Hard to say if the route concepts stay the same.
But for this team, right now, MM needs to stop trying to crush a square peg into a round hole.
Man beaters, stacked formations, crossing concepts.
I think Mike has forced these ISO routes so hard for so long with no results that it's really ****ing with AR to the point he's spooked and not trusting what he's seeing.
Do we need to see more of Janis & Davis? They have speed but not sure of their route running.
Aikman thinks Adams needs to play better than he has been, not that Adams isn't any good.
H5 thinks the entire Offense needs to play better. Actually, the entirety of X4 thinks the Offense needs to play better.