I don't think the problem is the lack of a deep threat, I think they are trying to manufacture one when it isn't there. Soften up the belly of the opposing defense and the long strike will become available, not the other way around.
Not sure if anyone remembers, but Pro Football Focus had a pretty scathing review of Rodgers' performance in the KC game last year, a game where statistically, he seemed to have an incredible game. PFF got lit up pretty good on this board and other media outlets but seems like they were ahead of the curve on Rodgers.
Rodgers has been a bottom 10 QB this year and it is killing this team. He has to figure it out b/c right now he's a $20m anchor on this offense. Nothing happens in rhythm with this offense. The OL is giving him ungodly amount of time and he needs every millisecond of it. It's ridiculous. I have to assume it's killing MM too with him lashing out at the media when asked about Rodgers and the offense. Serious question at this point: can MM go to Hundley? Not saying he should but this team is going nowhere with Rodgers' poor play and it's not a few gam stretch, it's going on over 16 games. And it's fundamental stuff right now, stuff he's never struggled with before.
I never would have thought Rodgers' play would be the reason a season goes down the tubes. But that's what's happening right now.
FLPACKER posted:demisod posted:A lot of the problem is the slow return of Nelson from the ACL injury. The offense desperately needs a legitimate deep threat and there just isn't one right now. The Packers are one of the worst teams in the league in 20+ yard plays. Some of that is on Rodgers' poor play, but with Nelson being what he is right now, this is a very weak receiving corps relative to other years. A lot of them are young. Maybe they'll develop into good #3 guys or lower, but the team does not have a good #1 guy right now, and it shows.
I found a comment by Aikman to be interesting....he said "I've always thought that your passing game is only as good as how good your third WR is". He then talked about Adams, comparing him to other third receivers we've had when the offense was more effective. It was obvious that Aikman thinks Adams is not very good.
He isn't. No coincidence that things picked up when Monty took his minutes.
Rodgers used to throw his WRs open. Yesterday he threw Adams into a concussion.
The back shoulder pass used to be a staple of this offense. I missed a little bit of the game yesterday, but other than when they were trying to will Jordy back into game shape in the first week or two, I do not remember more than one or two attempts at a back shoulder. Jones and Jordy seemed to be the best at them in the past. I'm not exactly sure why, but I do know that it is missing from the repertoire.
They seem to be best when they are deliberate as in early in the game with the Giants. Huddle up. Bring in packages for the play call. No rushing and worrying about being cute and catching the other team off guard. That was fairly short lived unfortunately.
Hungry5 posted:Rodgers used to throw his WRs open. Yesterday he threw Adams into a concussion.
Another thing I was thinking of. They used to talk about systems that throw to a spot or throw to a man. I think that it comes down to getting the yipps and maybe being just hesitant enough to get guys killed if they catch the ball. They are obviously not throwing to a spot now (not well anyhow), but they used to do that fairly often and fairly well.
How many times would it have only taken a little more air under the ball on the long attempts to allow the guy a chance to catch rather than it just flying with a lower trajectory well over the receivers head. I can think of about 3-4 each game.
ChilliJon posted:Disagree. Kind of. GB has a stable of recievers that are built to run combo routes to create for other WRs. It's all ISO heavy BS with guys that aren't built to beat man coverage.
Would a true number 1 help? Hard to say if the route concepts stay the same.
But for this team, right now, MM needs to stop trying to crush a square peg into a round hole.
Man beaters, stacked formations, crossing concepts.
I think Mike has forced these ISO routes so hard for so long with no results that it's really ****ing with AR to the point he's spooked and not trusting what he's seeing.
This is spot on, especially with Cobb. He isn't built to win on the perimeter or plays down field. On that fourth down throw to Cobb that was slightly under thrown, a bigger more physical receiver slows down and goes up to compete for the ball. That's not Cobbs game. The same goes for Monty.
The guys we do have for traditional WR play just arn't very good. Adams is playing better the past two weeks but he has been a major disappointment. Nelson isn't getting separation now either and has had two bad games in a row with his hands.
We need to forget about the home run right now because we don't have the talent to hit it and the Scheme we are facing takes it away. As Chili said, we need to run man beaters underneath and pound the rock until the D comes out of the 2 deep. Jared Cook will help with that when he returns but we should be utilize Cobb, Monty and even Abby underneath.
The meme that "AR has all day to throw and still can't find anybody" is a bit of a red herring. Defenses are only rushing 4 (3 per MM) and our OL is good enough to keep them at bay for that long. But the other 7 (8 per MM) are dropping into coverage. That's 8 on 3 or 4, 5 max. Hard to find someone open in that scenario on a regular basis. Some people suggest getting back to the short rhythm passing of the WCO. You can't even do that with regularity when you got 7 guys defending the pass. Easy for a slot corner to jump a slant when he knows he's got multiple guys behind him. Another poster suggested we're not running the ball with success consistently enough to pull a guy or two back into the box. I think he's on to something.
The other problem is that the RBs they have are obviously not speed guys. Lacy is good at getting 4 yards on plays that a lot of backs would get 2 on, but he's not a guy whose going to break long runs. If you could feed him 30 times a game, he'd be effective getting 4-5 yards consistently, but he's too dinged up for that load right now. Lacy is back that gets you into 3rd and short and we're just not good at converting those situations right now in the short passing game.
Draw plays should be effective against guys dropping back into coverage, but even when he's healthy it takes Lacy a while to get going - he's not a draw play type of back - he needs to get a running start before he's handed the ball.
CHEEZE posted:
The back shoulder pass used to be a staple of this offense. I missed a little bit of the game yesterday, but other than when they were trying to will Jordy back into game shape in the first week or two, I do not remember more than one or two attempts at a back shoulder. Jones and Jordy seemed to be the best at them in the past. I'm not exactly sure why, but I do know that it is missing from the repertoire.
They seem to be best when they are deliberate as in early in the game with the Giants. Huddle up. Bring in packages for the play call. No rushing and worrying about being cute and catching the other team off guard. That was fairly short lived unfortunately.
What if some of those back shoulder passes were just bad passes that Jordy bailed him out on.....asking for a friend
That question is funny because it's clearly meant in jest but then again it's not 100% inaccurate. Even in AR's MVP seasons, he was assisted by WR's making a good number of very difficult catches. I'm not taking anything away from AR's peak abilities but think of all the crazy twisted and contorted catches Jordy made on the sideline or JJ made in traffic, or Jennings made before getting blasted. It may be small compared to the other recent problems but it all adds up.
Help. Driver might have been the #6 option in this pic.
Pikes Peak posted:The back shoulder pass used to be a staple of this offense. I missed a little bit of the game yesterday, but other than when they were trying to will Jordy back into game shape in the first week or two, I do not remember more than one or two attempts at a back shoulder. Jones and Jordy seemed to be the best at them in the past. I'm not exactly sure why, but I do know that it is missing from the repertoire.
They seem to be best when they are deliberate as in early in the game with the Giants. Huddle up. Bring in packages for the play call. No rushing and worrying about being cute and catching the other team off guard. That was fairly short lived unfortunately.
What if some of those back shoulder passes were just bad passes that Jordy bailed him out on.....asking for a friend
In theory, if both the QB and the receiver "read" the DB's position to be ahead of the WR, they are to throw behind the receiver, who knows it is coming & can stop. while the DB keeps moving forward creating separation.
Mcpacker64 posted:
Yoko is the one he has to worry about.
I think MM lost 12 when he gave away the keys to the offense last training camp. That seems like something 12 will hold a grudge over forever.
I also think when MM talks about the focus of the season being fundamentals he's thinking foremost about Rodgers. 12 is jumpy, uncertain, and off target and he's been that way for a while now.
I'd love to know exactly what Alex Van Pelt is doing to coach Rodgers. 12 is getting progressively worse under his tutelage.
AR being allowed to trash his receivers by hinting (or saying) he doesn't trust them and they don't run the routes correctly, hasn't helped. His body language went all to heck. When no one stepped up to tell him to stop trashing his teammates and to act like a pro, he was free to think he wasn't the problem. Three hail marys later, he again wasn't the problem -- he was now the savior. Now starting this year, he has been a mess. Mechanically, mentally, whether it's the yips or he's yapping at his teammates, he's the one holding this team back. I'd like to know what he did for summer workout; did he do the same as always? Did he cut back?
When making a screen pass or a pass in the flat or a dump-off to an RB becomes an adventure, as it has for AR, something is clearly off. He's entering Tebow Territory.
DH13 posted:The meme that "AR has all day to throw and still can't find anybody" is a bit of a red herring. Defenses are only rushing 4 (3 per MM) and our OL is good enough to keep them at bay for that long. But the other 7 (8 per MM) are dropping into coverage. That's 8 on 3 or 4, 5 max. Hard to find someone open in that scenario on a regular basis. Some people suggest getting back to the short rhythm passing of the WCO. You can't even do that with regularity when you got 7 guys defending the pass. Easy for a slot corner to jump a slant when he knows he's got multiple guys behind him. Another poster suggested we're not running the ball with success consistently enough to pull a guy or two back into the box. I think he's on to something.
When they only send 4 we could counter that with a pass catching back and be sending out 5 skilled players vs their 7 in coverage. That only happened in the one drive when Monty went off. Otherwise we are keeping the back into protect as well.
MichiganPacker posted:The other problem is that the RBs they have are obviously not speed guys. Lacy is good at getting 4 yards on plays that a lot of backs would get 2 on, but he's not a guy whose going to break long runs.
I was thinking the same thing today. Not sure MM utilizes Lacy correctly. I'm not sure what the problem/solution (other than just better playcalling) but too many times we see them running it well and moving the ball, only to see Rodgers throw 3 straight incompletions. Or a failed stretch run to the outside and 2 incomplete passes. Or Lacy gets 6 yards on first down then Rodgers throws two deep balls. Seems like with Lacy, Rodgers needs to be more into a ball control QB and he's never really been that.
And I agree with your initial assessment, this team really needs a guy with some burst. You see how much guys like Tevon Coleman and Darren Sproles can add to an offense. TT and MM just never have been a fan of that type of RB. CJ Spiller and Ronnie Hillman were guys TT could have signed for near the minimum just a few weeks ago.
Fandame posted:AR being allowed to trash his receivers by hinting (or saying) he doesn't trust them and they don't run the routes correctly, hasn't helped. His body language went all to heck. When no one stepped up to tell him to stop trashing his teammates and to act like a pro, he was free to think he wasn't the problem. Three hail marys later, he again wasn't the problem -- he was now the savior. Now starting this year, he has been a mess. Mechanically, mentally, whether it's the yips or he's yapping at his teammates, he's the one holding this team back. I'd like to know what he did for summer workout; did he do the same as always? Did he cut back?
When making a screen pass or a pass in the flat or a dump-off to an RB becomes an adventure, as it has for AR, something is clearly off. He's entering Tebow Territory.
Remember that quote from earlier in the year that he only has to work on the difficult pass, because anyone can throw the easy ones. His fundamentals are awful and he won't admit it. He's ****ed.
And, oh BTW Aaron, you can throw the easy passes. Not anymore.
How do you use a RB with a bad ankle correctly?
You let him hobble away in free agency
But why couldn't they trade him for something???????
ChilliJon posted:I'm of the opinion MM has reached his innovation ceiling. It is what it is. And AR is having a tougher time executing plays that aren't really stressing defensive schemes.
Not giving AR a pass either. He's missed passes he made in his sleep the last year. He looks rattled. I don't know if he's gone Steve Sax or things have sped up because the offense isn't fooling anyone.
The majority of the drives on offense are just metal on metal grinds trying to scratch out 10 yard chunks.
I'll bet that half of the people on here don't know/remember who Steve Sax was, but he sure had the "yips."
Maybe it's like being a little bit pregnant...
Aaron Rodgers: I’m just a little bit off
Posted by Josh Alper on October 18, 2016, 5:12 PM EDTGetty Images
Through six games this season, Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers is posting career lows in completion percentage, yards per attempt and quarterback rating.
He wasn’t too much better down the stretch last season and the extended drop in his performance has led to plenty of thoughts about what the future holds for the two-time MVP. Some have wondered if he’ll get back to that level and others have questioned whether the current Packers approach and overall offensive makeup provides the right situation for him to rebound.
Rodgers didn’t spell out R-E-L-A-X as he once did in response to worries about the offense, but it doesn’t seem like he thinks anything dramatic needs to be done to get back on track.
“I’m just a little bit off,” Rodgers said, via Mike Garafolo of NFL Media. “We’ve been a little bit off collectively. I’m confident we’re gonna get it fixed pretty soon.”
We're "gonna get it fixed pretty soon." 
Yeah, a little bit off....& my bladder is a little bit full too.
Gimme an effing break....
Reading through our research team's TNF notes like come onnnnnn......... pic.twitter.com/IBaMTVkl9l
— Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo) October 18, 2016
He has to take a little more responsibility than "I'm just a little off." If he's just a "little off," then the Titanic was just a fender-bender.
Word brother. A little bit off?
How about you tell some more about how you do that drill for Mike McCarthy as a favor to him/the team.
What a dick. Can he for once admit he sucks right now? Great players admit when they suck and it drives them to do better. His ****ing ego prohibits him from this. He is probably thinking "sooner or later everyone else will get their head out of their ass and we will be rolling". Humility is not a bad thing asshole. I'm sick of his attitude. Show me you can still play.
After much analysis with my close confidants I believe I have an answer.
We have a Manchurian candidate on our hands people.
DID ANYBODY CHECK THE SPELLING ON HIS JERSEY! HOW COULD WE NOT SEE THE SIGNS!
Call me a geek-----I immediately knew that was styled after the 1963 Topps football set....
We have a Manchurian candidate on our hands people.
Troy posted:What a dick. Can he for once admit he sucks right now? Great players admit when they suck and it drives them to do better. His ****ing ego prohibits him from this. He is probably thinking "sooner or later everyone else will get their head out of their ass and we will be rolling". Humility is not a bad thing asshole. I'm sick of his attitude. Show me you can still play.
Oh ya mean like Brett always did??
I couldn't give two sh!ts if he admits to the fans or not that he's sucking. He knows he's playing like crap. The coach knows his troubles as well. If they don't get it figured out, someone will replace them.
From 1973 - 1988
92 - 140 - 6
Yeah no kidding Goldie
Brent throws 5 picks in a game and it's all "aw shucks" bull****. How quickly we forget his routine nonsense. The next time the old 'slinger takes responsibly for his ****ty play in certain games will be the first.
There's no question that Rodgers is struggling big time right now. Him saying he's a little off is like Union Carbide saying Bhopal was a minor accident.
Still (cue up your favorite T.O. weeping moment) he's our QB for better or worse. I keep holding out hope this is a big ruse and he's just setting us all up. Can I go with that???
Goldie posted:Troy posted:What a dick. Can he for once admit he sucks right now? Great players admit when they suck and it drives them to do better. His ****ing ego prohibits him from this. He is probably thinking "sooner or later everyone else will get their head out of their ass and we will be rolling". Humility is not a bad thing asshole. I'm sick of his attitude. Show me you can still play.
Oh ya mean like Brett always did??
Who said anything about Favre? He was an asshole too.