Shields.
Originally Posted by Grave Digger:
How can anyone believe this D performance is not on the ILBs? The DL was below average, the OLBs were fine, the CBs were fine and 2/3 of our Safeties were fine, but the two most critical areas of this D were awful. The two ILB spots are the most critical positions on the field and our ILBs were nonexistent.
The ILBs are clearly horrendous. But that's not all that stinks with this defense.
The DL was getting completely blown up at the point of attack. Daniels looked awful against the run -- he was getting cleared out. #98 was a folding chair. Datone Jones did nothing.
And once again, Capers didn't have that team prepared for the looks Seattle will provide. A simple fake read option results in a wide open 35 yard TD. It's one thing when Alabama pulls that off on Kentucky in college. But that just shouldn't happen at the NFL. It doesn't happen when other teams play the 49ers or Seahawks. But when the Packers play those teams, you see guys getting faked out of their jockstraps having no idea where they should go.
The Packers' defense was basically shell shocked after the game. They were at a loss to explain that performance.
Linebacker Brad Jones was visibly shaken. Never seen him like that.
Good, I hope he's shaken so badly that he never sees the field as a starter again. Sometimes, a guy losing his confidence can be a good thing (particularly in the case of a player like Jones, who has absolutely no grounds to feel confident about anything on an NFL field).
Theres only one person responsible for the talent in that team and the lack there of and that is Ted Thompson. You people are such big apologists for that guy, when are you all gonba realize that the fish rots from the head down. Perry, Burnett, Datone Jones, Mike Neal a worn out Julius Peppers and of course our ILB's...wake up people but that is some garbage out there!! Even with the Raji injury excuse he had zero depth behind him. This defense has been playing the same tune for the last three years and its growing very tiring!
Wow, you are just so much smarter than the rest of us rubes, congrats for achieving total enlightenment.
According to one stat I read, Brad Jones was responsible for 4 of the Packers 11 missed tackles (on Lynch) last night.
Only 4? Only 11?
Originally Posted by Koopla Krash:
When the NT is on roller skates and the ILBs don't attack, there is no hope against a good running team. Hell, for the first 3 quarters, Mike Daniels was getting worked over too.
Even before this game I was skeptical Daniels could be an every down player. He's good on sure passing downs but should not be out there on running downs. That said he's still probably the best player on a (I'll be kind here) mediocre D-Line.
Brad Jones is now part of the Estus Hood/Alphonso Carreker/Terrell Buckley/Marquand Manual/MD Jennings pantheon of defensive players so freaking bad you can't even believe what you're seeing.
Credos, Jones. That takes some doing. Holy crap is he bad. I cannot believe that Lattimore/Bam Bam are worse. If they are, just play with 10 guys.
I think Brad Jones has been a member of that club for quite awhile though, it just hasn't happened overnight
TT needs to delegate the defensive picks to a trusted assistant.
Originally Posted by YooperPackfan:
I think Brad Jones has been a member of that club for quite awhile though, it just hasn't happened overnight
Not sure about that. It's taken time for that turd to fully blossom. The reason is that for a while now, when he wasn't sucking it was because he was constantly hurt. Now that he's fully healthy, he's really coming into his own as we saw last night when he set himself and his entire team on fire.
To me this is the worst case scenario for what can happen when you try to convert players to new positions. Jones is a DE/OLB that they have tried to convert to ILB rather than bring in a true ILB. Des Bishop was a true ILB and he was the best ILB we have had since Nick Barnett was in his prime with the 4-3 in the early 2000's. Hawk is another converted OLB. He was a good WLB in our 4-3 and that's where he belongs. It's a classic square peg/round hole situation for both guys. San Fran and Seattle are successful defenses because they have the right guys in place for their scheme...they aren't trying to make undersized DL work or convert some DE to ILB who obviously has no clue how to play the position. They bring in a true thumper ILB like Bobby Wagner or Pat Willis and they put them in a position to succeed.
Barrington is a true ILB. Let him take his lumps and grow. He can't be worse.
Barrington is a true ILB. Let him take his lumps and grow. He can't be worse.
Seems like some of the blame is really misguided regarding the MLBs.
Blame Brad Jones and AJ Hawk. But are either of them that good? Should either of them be starting for a defense that runs the 3-4. Should either of them even be starting MLBs in the NFL period? If they're just not talented enough and not starting NFL LBs because they lack the ability/talent, is it really their fault??
Blame Winston Moss. Well, if his MLBs don't have the ability to be starters or have the capabilities of getting better, what is the position coach supposed to do? He can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.
Blame Dom Capers. Is he putting Hawk and Jones into schemes they aren't capable of playing? If those two don't have the ability to be starters, then is there really ANY scheme they're capable of playing on an every down basis?? There's no way Capers is hitching his wagon to two guys who have clearly have been well below average for several years and the perennial weakness of this 3-4 D if there were better options. It makes no sense that Capers would continue to start them on D if their backups were any better. Go ahead a blame Capers defensive playcalling/schemes regarding the MLBs, but in doing so, that means better playcalling/coaching would improve the play of Hawk and Jones.
Blame McCarthy. He's responsible for the coaching staff. But would different coaches makes Jones and Hawk better? Would different coaches scheme better and put the MLBs in a better position to succeed. Maybe McCarthy could force Capers to bench those two. But is a better option really behind them? And should an offensive minded HC really force the issue on his DC? Not if the options at MLBaren't really better.
Blame Thompson. Well, he assembles the team. He's manages the teams cap wonderfully. He has a really good eye for evaluating talent especially on the offensive side of the ball. He does a great job overall of the "draft and develop" strategy of assembling a team. But he hasn't addressed the team's weakness at MLB since they switched to a 3-4. It's been the Packers Achilles heal each and every season, and the same two guys have been starting there in each one of them. For as good as TT has been in his reign with the Packers. I think this is one glaring flaw. And unless the MLB situation drastically changes really soon, this season will once again end in disappointment, and a big reason will mostly likely be the demise of the defense because of poor MLBs.
Whomever was the brilliant idot that thought BJones should go to the inside LB position, should be shot.
BJones is built to be on the outside, thats where he was drafted for and in No effin way is he built to be on the inside ... he plays WAY, WAY to high.
and he really can not cover either, so you got that going for you even when he goes on the outside. They tried to salvage his lack of coverage skills by moving to inside, guess what, not going to happen.
You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sheet, and BJones/Hawk are chicken crap.
Seriously, I did not read your chicken sheet line before I wrote mine.
You put that much suck in tight quarters and they're probably going to do something that sucks. And just where in the eff does Hawk think he's going? If he's going out to cover the flat look where he runs himself to in relation to the back that swings out after trying to chip CM3.
He's horrible.
I can't believe they don't stagger themselves.
Remind me never to go motorcycle riding with these morons.
I think Tit's link is the first every one route pick play.
This will catch on fast.
Lotta angst over Chicken Hawk and Mrs Jones. A nice cement bird bath would be a solid replacement at this point.
Originally Posted by titmfatied:
Is this a clip from Friday Night Lights?
If I'm playing devil's advocate I would say that Hawk and Jones are not the first group of ILBs to be destroyed by a properly executed zone blocking scheme. Seattle is an interesting case. When Alex Gibbs ran the ZBS in Denver he favored undersized, more athletic OL that could get to the second level and neutralize LBs. With Seattle Tom Cable has a set of reasonably big OL, all well over 300 lbs. who seem to be able to execute the same scheme as an OL 20-30 lbs lighter. And rather than plug in some 7th round afterthought RB, they plugged in an already talented and accomplished RB and got him to buy in. When you have a very talented RB, a massive and athletic OL, and both buy into the ZBS and execute it properly then you're going to embarrass teams. They are a lot like the Wisconsin Badgers offense in that regard.
That doesn't let the Packers D off the hook because their performance was pitiful, but I think we are not giving the proper credit to Seattle's offense for both the talent they have and their execution. That scheme has embarrassed better players than GB has. The trick is not letting Seattle do it again and not letting any one else do it.
I think the Packer's defense made the Seattle offense look more talented than they are.
Which again speaks to piss poor coaching. The "we'll get that fixed" coaching approach. Always 2 steps behind.
I think Seattle's offense is pretty dang talented. Other than maybe New Orleans or New England I don't think we will face a better offense this year. Don't forget that Seattle was in the top 5 in rushing last season and in the top 5 in passer rating. They are an incredibly efficient team that doesn't make mistakes, as evidenced by their +20 turnover difference. They're a good team top to bottom. GB didn't play the kind of mistake free football that you need to play...GB wasn't disciplined, they didn't play tough, and defensively they played right into what they wanted to do.
McCarthy's plan going into a game is to score early and often and have the defense play bend/don't break D. And if the D breaks then he's confident Aaron Rodgers will win a points race. Well they bent and they broke on D and Rodgers couldn't keep up on offense. That's what it came down to.
The defense was totally destroyed then the offense played half of the field, telegraphing Lacy's runs along the way.
Completely and utterly out coached on every level. My biggest issue isn't that they lost, Seattle is a excellent team, but how they lost. It was this level of malaise or fear or arrogance that just baffled me.
Originally Posted by RatPack:
Lotta angst over Chicken Hawk and Mrs Jones. A nice cement bird bath would be a solid replacement at this point.
Me-ee-ee-ee, Me and Mrs Jones, Mrs Jones, Mrs Jo-ones.
We got a thing going o-on.
And it's much too strong to let it go now.
This is a fun old clip. But to me, the part that the current Packers should watch is the stuff of Payton.
I just have a hard time believing that guy couldn't tackle Phillip Epps, it's almost as if the Bears let the Packers score
thanks for that H5!
wish the TV crews still showed the game like that. keeping the cameras on the field and the sidelines instead of the all the sh*t we have to put up with these days.
Gregg & Dickta actually shook hands and didn't try to kill each other.
I just couldn't believe my eyes that a guy wearing #50 for the Packers could make a stuff like that.
Wingo and John Anderson - good ol' days!
One of Rich Campbell's three career TD passes. Rare stuff indeed.
