For Goodell or Packer fans? I imagine that's an important distinction.
Dr. Bob: "Authenticated witness statements" are hearsay.
Everything on the list in the footnote posted above defining what constitutes "credible documented evidence" is hearsay, except "testimony in legal proceedings." The "including but not limited to" language before that list puts these recordings themselves as evidence the Commissioner can consider, if he wants to. If he wants, all he has to do is authenticate that it is Charlie Sly in the video, verify that he was in Green Bay, and if he finds the taped admissions credible, he's got all he needs. If he wants.
"It's all hearsay" is not going to work. "It's not credible" might. They have some explaining to do, and Peppers in particular better do well in the interview.
As Goalline said, it would be shocking if these guys weren't using something. The NFL/NBA/MLB have big incentives not to implicate their stars. For all the crap MLB has taken over the years on this issue, they are the one league that actually seems to try to control things.
What's interesting is that the NFL has chosen to investigate this based on what's out there. Almost by definition, any case involving PEDs involves a lot of shady characters. There are probably no lack of cases like this to investigate, it's just that Al Jazeera went public with this guy. The NFL has chosen to investigate a case based on a guy bragging to his buddies with no real additional evidence.
The NBA has chosen not to investigate similar types of weak evidence implicating guys like LeBron James (who was linked to the same Miami clinic Braun was).
http://dystnow.com/2013/03/04/...iami-steroid-clinic/
Is anyone surprised NFL players would be connected to PEDs and Painkillers?
El-Ka-Bong posted:What if they find that PED's reduce the chances of CTE?
Mind/Blown
I think this is still an important question. Apart from advantages gained on the field, if they find evidence that HGH promotes healing, particularly improving recovery from concussions, I would think the players union would need to press for it to be an approved substance including possible lawsuits to make it so.
The more I read about Charlie Sly the more I believe he was a wannabe who's only connection to anyone was Neal. Was licensed as a pharmacist, partnered to start a nutritional supplement company with trainer Jason Riley. The New York Times discovered that “nearly all of the athletes Sly named are clients of Jason Riley, a fitness trainer based in Sarasota, Fla.”
Many people know the name Jason Riley from his famous ability to turn around Derek Jeter’s career. In 2010, a few years after Riley had begun working with Jeter, ESPN declared that Riley had dumped Jeter “into a hot tub time machine” and made him into a 25-year-old.
Thus far, Derek Jeter’s name has not been connected to any of the HGH or doping allegations.
Maybe they are suspended but this is a slippery slope. What is to stop, say, Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder from leaking PED stuff about the Eagles and Giants in an effort to get them suspended? Jerry and Dan are pretty despicable guys, so they're hardly above that shady stuff. And they have the media contacts and money to get PED rumors going. And news sources these days only care about one thing: clicks. PED allegations get clicks. All you're banking on is the integrity of guys like JJ and Snyder, and the media. That's why you suspend based on evidence and facts, not media reports. Slippery slope that maybe you can't imagine happening b/c it's so shady, but isn't really that far fetched.
EDIT: Almost forgot the biggest cheaters: do you think BB, Kraft and Patriots are above this? I don't.
heyward posted:If Vikings were named in this report, hearsay would be more than sufficient.
Not seeing a problem with that.
El-Ka-Bong posted:Is anyone surprised NFL players would be connected to PEDs and Painkillers?
Shocked!
CUPackFan posted:Maybe they are suspended but this is a slippery slope. What is to stop, say, Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder from leaking PED stuff about the Eagles and Giants in an effort to get them suspended? Jerry and Dan are pretty despicable guys, so they're hardly above that shady stuff. And they have the media contacts and money to get PED rumors going. And news sources these days only care about one thing: clicks. PED allegations get clicks. All you're banking on is the integrity of guys like JJ and Snyder, and the media. That's why you suspend based on evidence and facts, not media reports. Slippery slope that maybe you can't imagine happening b/c it's so shady, but isn't really that far fetched.
EDIT: Almost forgot the biggest cheaters: do you think BB, Kraft and Patriots are above this? I don't.
You make some interesting points, but those who live in glass houses shouldn't and won't throw stones. I'm guessing it's pretty likely that more than a few Cowboys and Redskins are juicing.
In terms of Peppers and CM3, I love watching them play - especially CM3 with his intensity, but let's face it if they were Vikings we'd all be posting about how obvious it should be to anyone with a brain that they are doping. Has CM3 ever gotten through a year without a hamstring problem? He also looks like the Incredible Hulk.
Peppers was suspended for a banned substance in 2002.
So it has been 14 years, I guess something has to give.
I see black helicopters hovering over Lambeau Field and Pistol's house.
CUPackFan posted:Maybe they are suspended but this is a slippery slope. What is to stop, say, Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder from leaking PED stuff about the Eagles and Giants in an effort to get them suspended? Jerry and Dan are pretty despicable guys, so they're hardly above that shady stuff. And they have the media contacts and money to get PED rumors going. And news sources these days only care about one thing: clicks. PED allegations get clicks. All you're banking on is the integrity of guys like JJ and Snyder, and the media. That's why you suspend based on evidence and facts, not media reports. Slippery slope that maybe you can't imagine happening b/c it's so shady, but isn't really that far fetched.
EDIT: Almost forgot the biggest cheaters: do you think BB, Kraft and Patriots are above this? I don't.
This was a sting operation, like the cops use, the first of its kind in football. It is a lot different than just starting a rumor. It records crimes occurring. You see the hypodermic needles. You hear all the details. It was sordid and shady alright, that's the problem. It wasn't staged or a joke or a misunderstanding. The guy is busted. On GoPro.
And the recant hurts more than it helps, because it just verifies it is him in the video. If he was going to do that, he needed to do more to explain why he said and did all those things, instead of just issuing a blanket, "it's all false." Without more, it leaves his guilt as the only reasonable conclusion, and leaves some very popular public figures in a very uncomfortable spot.
ammo posted:I see black helicopters hovering over Lambeau Field and Pistol's house.
I hear ya, hey.
Yeah my example was pretty over the top but it's also why the CBA has some sense of due process. Allegations aren't enough to garner suspensions or trigger a fishing expedition. And there are strict rules around PED suspensions in the CBA; the NFL can test them in accord with the CBA, or they can suspend them based on "other evidence". Upon suspension, the player can then appeal. The appeal is heard by an independent arbitrator, not Roger Goodell. It's why Richard Sherman beat his suspension. Any arbitrator not completely corrupt by the NFL would immediately throw out a suspension in the absence of a positive test or a police report.
Add in the horrendous current relationship between the NFL and NFLPA and it would be completely shocking if the NFL was allowed to interrogate these players.
EDIT: Not a huge fan of Florio but he has a good write up here on why these interrogations won't happen.
Toridol is pain relief and anti-inflammation drug. There is no growth being promoted with use of this, just healing. I guess you you could argue that it allows for quicker recovery from workouts, but I don't see it as Performace enhancing.
That said, I guess they could go after him for substance abuse with it but it's not like hydrocodone or other opioid based mess that are getting abused regularly for the high.
Pikes Peak posted:GreenBayLA posted:What is the NFL doing? If they suspend players based on Al Jeezy the terrorists have already won!
Ya got any verified info of bad Al Jeezy reporting?
Jeezy be Falcons fan
"If the NFL is sufficiently concerned that the players in this case would be able to successfully defend themselves in front of a neutral arbitrator, then maybe the “credible evidence” isn’t."
This pretty much sums up the "Dog & Pony" show.
The league will look like complete morons to pursue this without any credible evidence.
If I were Clay or Julius. I'd demand Roger asks the questions and the entire interview is recorded on video with unrestricted distribution.
The Ginger Jackass subversive tactics are tiring.
Behind the Charlie & Neal curtain is maybe we will find Kraft trying to get back at the NFL for suspending Brady. Or maybe Jerry Jones trying to bring the Packers down enough so Dallas can beat them. These days nothing will surprise me.
But that aside, all that is needed today are allegations. That is enough to convict these days. Credible or hard evidence? That was so 1950ish.
Unless, of course, you're politically connected.
ChilliJon posted:If I were Clay or Julius. I'd demand Roger asks the questions and the entire interview is recorded on video with unrestricted distribution.
The Ginger Jackass subversive tactics are tiring.
Are you saying that the NFL should ignore that video?
Ghost of Lambeau posted:Credible or hard evidence?
Fedya.
Goalline.
I have Holiday Inn Express points and I'd like to offer the two of you a complimentary room.
Admit it, Blair: You laughed at the Lance Easley joke, too.
Fedya posted:Do they have the soccer channels?
They did today.....snuck in early to see Wales fail.....
Keep this thread and forum for football only. American Football that is. You guys can kick that other fuutball up your arse. 
We're coming ammo, we're coming.
Another concussion study and all the mom's are making little Opie, "Keeeek theeee ball....."
You're not looking forward to Thursday Night Fußball tomorrow?
You can get concussions from heading the ball, and hitting another player's head jumping for the ball.
Goalies don't get head injuries.....
...unless you do it rong.
Goalline posted:ChilliJon posted:If I were Clay or Julius. I'd demand Roger asks the questions and the entire interview is recorded on video with unrestricted distribution.
The Ginger Jackass subversive tactics are tiring.
Are you saying that the NFL should ignore that video?
I'm saying Roger has been paid over $215 million as commissioner and he doesn't actually care anymore. House money. The players are going to force him out eventually. Might as well get that ball rolling. In fact. Hear is Calvin Johnson talking about surviving Roger's Thursday Night games forever NFL dreamscape.
You can't play Rogers NFL without medicated assistance. And if he thinks he's going to start laying down PED law after clearing a quarter billion he's going to get his ginger hair singed.
PEDs preceed painkillers preceed trainers preceed teams. The last thing Roger needs is a ruler drawing a line from his start and lack of PED care to concussions. It smells like Selig sniffing his legacy on fire. only Roger's legacy is done burnt out and he's spraying lighter fluid on cold ashes.