Packer Organization Not Getting Much Love From The National Guys

When you attempt to buy a SB your team tends to suffer long term.  See when Denver sold the farm for Payton and crew.  What have they done since he left?

Tampa is trying to do the same here, but once Brady retires and all the free agents leave, Tampa is going nowhere for a decade.  They have no backup plan.

I'd much rather have the front office build teams for the long term than one-and-done scenarios.  The playoffs are usually a crapshoot anyway.  The year we won it all we barely even made it to the playoffs.  The best team we ever had was blown out in the divisional round.

Point is we've had a chance, and that's all you can ask for. It's disheartening to lose, but I'd rather be watching playoff football every year than anything.  We had a squad this year that should have won this game, even without all these magic rookies people wanted to have on the team that they didn't get.  They proved they didn't need them.

But yesterday was death by 1000 paper cuts.  Everyone screwed up in this game, and it was enough to lose it.  Pointing fingers at any one person is stupid, there's blame to go all around.

I'm also a bit sick of hearing that we somehow failed AR.  He had many chances to win this game and he didn't.  This isn't like prior years where the D just folded or we lost on a coin flip in OT.  Everyone wants so badly for AR to get another ring but he was as much of the problem yesterday as anyone.  You can't throw an INT, and not convert on 2 Brady INT's, and miss 6 throws at the goalline and complain about not having opportunities to win the game.

@vitaflo posted:

I'd much rather have the front office build teams for the long term than one-and-done scenarios.  The playoffs are usually a crapshoot anyway.  The year we won it all we barely even made it to the playoffs.  The best team we ever had was blown out in the divisional round.

I totally agree on your point.  One thing that is awesome as a Packers fan is the consistency of the front office and they always have an eye on the future.

Yesterday really hurts but I also sit back and think that it is pretty damn awesome to have our team in the thick of things almost every single year. 

@Grave Digger posted:

Does anyone look back still on 2005 and say “gosh I wish Ted would have gone all-in before the 2006 season like Tompa Bay instead of drafting Aaron Rodgers. Wish we had Roddy White right now!” Unless your owner gives you a mandate that you win a SB in the next 2 years, GMs have to be looking further ahead than that. Gute obviously hasn’t been perfect, he’s missed some opportunities, but honestly this was entirely a team loss and that includes Rodgers. In the past it’s been clear defense issues, but the offense blew plenty of chances to take control. No one failed Rodgers this time.

Comparing Aaron Rodgers coming out of college to Jordan Love is fucking absurd.

Why? People bagged on Rodgers harder than they did on Love prior to the draft. He was picked apart. Rodgers was a Tedford QB who was doomed to be David Carr or Akili Smith. He was criticized immediately on stepping foot in GB. Early on it was that he didn't look great in practice, then he got hurt a couple times, but always something people didn't like. Rodgers came from a Pac10 school, won more, but also had more talent around him and a better coach. IF Love turns out to even be an above average QB for the next 8 years is anyone really going to look back and wish we had gone all in in 2020? Do they do that about 2005? No.

@Grave Digger posted:

Rodgers purposely creating this narrative that his future is uncertain? Very mid-2000’s Brett Favre of him.

Good, I like it.

If Rodgers had HALF the defense that Brady has enjoyed his entire career, we'd be talking about Rodgers with all the Super Bowl appearances/wins.

@Grave Digger posted:

Rodgers purposely creating this narrative that his future is uncertain? Very mid-2000’s Brett Favre of him.

So Rodgers is to be blamed for creating a narrative that his future with the organization is uncertain after yesterday's 2021 playoff loss while the organization that traded up in the 1st round to select a QB in round 1 of the 2020 draft while Rodgers still had 4 years on his contract played no role in creating this narrative?

Man, sometimes I wish I could shut off the logical part of my brain in order to possess such uncritical devotion to an organization, any organization, not just the Packers.

@michiganjoe posted:

Just don't see Gutey as having the primary culpability for this one. The soon-to-be league MVP needed to play better and head coach that's been receiving rave reviews also didn't get it done.

Aaron certainly missed a wide open Davante for a touchdown, and a wide open Lazard in the end zone...

Just sayin'...if blame is the game, there's plenty to go around in this one.

@Packmeister posted:

Aaron certainly missed a wide open Davante for a touchdown, and a wide open Lazard in the end zone...

Just sayin'...if blame is the game, there's plenty to go around in this one.

And Teabag Brady, the purported GOAT,  had 3 INT...but had a fucking defense to bail him out.

So the standard is now that a QB can't miss ANY open receivers.  That's just bats.  Are we then ignoring the 3TD's and 350yds vs TB D?

@Grave Digger posted:

Why? People bagged on Rodgers harder than they did on Love prior to the draft. He was picked apart. Rodgers was a Tedford QB who was doomed to be David Carr or Akili Smith. He was criticized immediately on stepping foot in GB. Early on it was that he didn't look great in practice, then he got hurt a couple times, but always something people didn't like. Rodgers came from a Pac10 school, won more, but also had more talent around him and a better coach. IF Love turns out to even be an above average QB for the next 8 years is anyone really going to look back and wish we had gone all in in 2020? Do they do that about 2005? No.

Yes. If Love is only an above-average QB for the next 8 years, we absolutely should have gone all-in in 2020. You can find above-average guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. If we get to watch a Kirk Cousins-like guy for the next 8 years that would be worth redshirting our draft class this year and signing no meaningful free agents other than swapping Kirksey in for Martinez? I don't expect them to completely mortgage the future, but they got nothing out of the first four rounds of the draft this year to help them win this year.

Love has to be a guy that makes him a perennial contender or it was the wrong decision.

Rodgers did play against the Pac 10, but the Pac10 included Pete Carroll's USC teams and, let's face it, has a lot better depth than the Mountain West that Love is in.

Rodgers in his final year at Cal lost one regular-season by 6 points and it was to a USC team with 19 future NFL draft picks on it. Reggie Bush, Steve Smith, Leinart, Tatupu, etc. with Pete Carroll as a coach. In that game, Rodgers was 29 for 34 for 267 yards. He set an NCAA record for completing 23 passes in a row. The game ended when Rodgers drove them to a first and goal. Does this sound kind of familiar? They took the ball out of his hands on the 4th down play. If they convert, they bump USC out of the title game and may play in it themselves.

Rodgers was a winner. The biggest concerns were about mechanics and physical ability coming out, not intangibles, and that is absolutely ludicrous in retrospect.

Rodgers' performance set up the Golden Bears at first and goal with 1:47 remaining and a chance for the game-winning touchdown. On the first play of USC's goal-line stand, Rodgers threw an incomplete pass. This was followed by a second-down sack by Manuel Wright.^[3] After a timeout and Rodgers' incomplete pass on third down, USC stopped Cal's run play to win the game.^[3] Rodgers commented that it was "frustrating that we couldn't get the job done."^[3]

@Grave Digger posted:

Why? People bagged on Rodgers harder than they did on Love prior to the draft. He was picked apart. Rodgers was a Tedford QB who was doomed to be David Carr or Akili Smith. He was criticized immediately on stepping foot in GB. Early on it was that he didn't look great in practice, then he got hurt a couple times, but always something people didn't like. Rodgers came from a Pac10 school, won more, but also had more talent around him and a better coach. IF Love turns out to even be an above average QB for the next 8 years is anyone really going to look back and wish we had gone all in in 2020? Do they do that about 2005? No.

Tedford QB with ridiculous completion numbers his entire career while playing in the PAC 10.  He was passed on because 1) idiots like McVince and Nolan were part of the decision making process in San Fran and other teams didn't need an arrogant QB.

Love, one good season throwing dumpers in the fucking Mountain West.  Then makes shit decisions when the heat is on him.

Yeah, exactly the same.  And Gunt burned a 4th to get him.

@SteveLuke posted:

So Rodgers is to be blamed for creating a narrative that his future with the organization is uncertain after yesterday's 2021 playoff loss while the organization that traded up in the 1st round to select a QB in round 1 of the 2020 draft while Rodgers still had 4 years on his contract played no role in creating this narrative?

Man, sometimes I wish I could shut off the logical part of my brain in order to possess such uncritical devotion to an organization, any organization, not just the Packers.

Okay, maybe tone it down a little. I was being snarky. Sorry I didn't use an emoji because apparently that's required to not cause controversy. I don't think Rodgers is trying to be Brett Favre, but I do think he's purposely sending a message that he's unhappy, likely to the FO. He shouldn't be happy and he definitely has some legit complaints about the organization wasting his prime years (no one would or should dispute that), but he knows what he did and he knew it would cause media drama and he did it anyway. I'm disappointed because I think that's game playing and I personally don't think that's the way to handle your business. It is his business though so who fuckin cares.   

@Henry posted:

Tedford QB with ridiculous completion numbers his entire career while playing in the PAC 10.  He was passed on because 1) idiots like McVince and Nolan were part of the decision making process in San Fran and other teams didn't need an arrogant QB.

Love, one good season throwing dumpers in the fucking Mountain West.  Then makes shit decisions when the heat is on him.

Yeah, exactly the same.  And Gunt burned a 4th to get him.

We'll see won't we. Hate fuck your keyboard all you want, but if Rodgers doesn't win a SB then we're having the same debate about burning a 1st rounder on a QB that couldn't win the big one when we could have taken Roddy White and ridden Favre's arm to glory.

Aaron Rodgers is the best playoff QB in modern history but uh, the other two phases have not helped him at all pic.twitter.com/Kc1thBM7Nw

— rcon14 (@rcon14) January 25, 2021

There is another post that lists the stats.

"There's no way the Packers would do anything to jeopardize losing Aaron."

Hall of Famer @BrettFavre says you shouldn't put too much stock into Aaron Rodgers' postgame press conference after another NFC Championship loss.#GoPackGo | @BruceMurrayNFL pic.twitter.com/CkiuOo0B32

— SiriusXM NFL Radio (@SiriusXMNFL) January 25, 2021

Him & Favrie are big buds now.

I think Rodgers felt this shot was probably one of his best, especially having the game in Lambeau. Rodgers is just pissed off because the narrative is always going to be...."Yeah he won ONE Super Bowl....BUT..."

Fucking defense....

@Boris posted:

Him & Favrie are big buds now.

I think Rodgers felt this shot was probably one of his best, especially having the game in Lambeau. Rodgers is just pissed off because the narrative is always going to be...."Yeah he won ONE Super Bowl....BUT..."

Fucking defense....

I'd argue it's really been the front office approach by TT and Gutey. Dom's defense looked like the Keystone cops at times, I'll give you that. However, unlike Dom's units, Pettine's units never have times when guys are running open because of blown coverages. If his teams get beat, it's because the guy just wasn't good enough to execute the coverage that was called. However, what Dom and Pettine both had in common was a front office that was more concerned about staying competitive for an extended period of time than mortgaging even a little bit of the future to optimize winning any one year. The front office probably felt they had enough talent to win in 2014, but their inability to address weak spots (ILB and special teams ineptitude) cost them a trip to a Super Bowl. This year I think the FO was shocked at how well Rodgers played and just hadn't done more because they thought they'd be entering a rebuilding phase. They could have gone and gotten some reinforcements at the trade deadline for the DL or the defensive backfield and we don't really know what was ever on the table. After the first part of the season, I wasn't as worried about WR depth as I was about DB and DL depth and a DL or DB can contribute quicker than a WR who has to learn a lot more complex play calls and audibles.

We kept playing AJ Hawk and Brad Jones at ILB for years after it was clear they needed an upgrade.

We were good with Lowry and Lancaster at DL and Josh Jackson as the top backup at CB even though we knew that most teams would want to upgrade from those guys.

Gutey completely remade the team last year by signing Z. Smith, P. Smith, and Amos. It gave them a defense that was good enough to compete. I was excited because it suggested an approach where the Packers would actually use all avenues to try to make their team better. Unfortunately, it looks like the move was made to ensure that they didn't have a terrible year in Year 1 of the MLF/Gutey combo and it's back to draft and develop almost exclusively and try to make sure you never go 4-12 any year because you need to readjust to a bad cap situation.

@Boris posted:

Him & Favrie are big buds now.

I think Rodgers felt this shot was probably one of his best, especially having the game in Lambeau. Rodgers is just pissed off because the narrative is always going to be...."Yeah he won ONE Super Bowl....BUT..."

Fucking defense....

And don’t forget to chastise the worthless Special Teams.

For all the banter going on about Jordan Love and how he can’t possibly be successful in Green Bay I’d recommend reading some of the draft bio information on Josh Allen.

Buffalo was roasted for taking a guy that completed 55% of his passes and making bad decisions (picks) playing for a no name school like Wyoming.  I mean, Utah State isn’t Louisiana State or even Boise State but what is fucking Wyoming?  

Look, he could turn out to be good or a steaming pile of crap but passing on him and drafting someone else was no guarantee of instant greatness either.  The fact of the matter is for as good as TT was in later drafts he shit the bed.  Look no further than Quentin Rollins and Josh Jones and Damarious Randall and the infamous Kevin King over you know who debacle.  Then Gute steps in and hits a home run with Jaire but swings and misses with Oren Burks and Josh Jackson.   Collectively, you add up all of those draft picks and it’s a whole lot of shite and they are still paying for it today on defense.  They blew a lot of draft capital on players that didn’t work out then had to draft more guys or load up on FAs to compensate so now they are stuck.   Even if they wanted to sign a decent FA at wideout or LB they don’t have the cap space.

I’m sure this is what Rodgers is ruminating about.  This won’t be the same team in 2021 and chances are Linsley and Aaron Jones and others won’t be back.  Kevin King goes and they need another starting CB and still haven’t addressed LB or DL.

It would seem unlikely but maybe Rodgers throws a grenade and demands a trade.  It would be a ballsy move but it’s not like the Packers can release him.  A trade may be the only thing they can do to save face.  

@Grave Digger posted:

Hate fuck your keyboard all you want,

Oh, I'm blasting the F5 key until the the O,M,G keys fly right the fuck off the clickey whore.  Then it's ctl/alt/delete time to tag team with the task manager!

@Tschmack posted:

For all the banter going on about Jordan Love and how he can’t possibly be successful in Green Bay I’d recommend reading some of the draft bio information on Josh Allen.

Who said he can't be successful?

I love how people shift the focus from the here and now.  The Love pick could've been not one but TWO players possibly being successful all the way to the Super Bowl.  He is not Aaron Rodgers.  If Rodgers can't get this team to the Super Bowl on his own you think Love will?  Success in this league is a gaming managing QB with some tricks up his sleeve from time to time.

Rodgers delivered exponentially on his pick.  A half ass QB with "potential" who cost more draft capital than Rodgers is successful if he hits the Alex Smith level.  Nevermind you're actually trying (or not) to get every last bit out of Rodgers career.   

Your problem seems to be he didn’t go for a Patrick Queen and then hope for a Tyler Johnson instead of kicking the Jordan Love and trying to play defense

My problem is he picked Jordan Love and burned a 4th to do it.  That's it.  I would've been happy with a DT and Oline depth in 4th or maybe, just maybe, a ILB that wasn't constantly hurt.

Talking heads love a story. They kinda need stories to make money and keep their jobs. A despondent AR, understandably so, let his emotions show a bit. This is a story they are running with, MVP QB pissed at cheap organization that is not dedicated to winning Super Bowls, might want out. It garners clicks. He will be back, some very talented players won’t be, some less talented players will be KingchurnedKing, some coaches will likely vanish. Back to the grind. See ya in July, hopefully camp can have some fans in attendance.

@DH13 posted:

So the standard is now that a QB can't miss ANY open receivers.  That's just bats.  Are we then ignoring the 3TD's and 350yds vs TB D?

Not at all...stat-wise, it was a very good game for Aaron...could have been better, though.

My point is had they drafted Jefferson or Queen instead of Love I’m not sure the outcome is all that different.  This team is more than one player away on defense.  They could use another DE, at least another LB, and certainly a good CB or nickel S/CB.  

Losing Bak was huge because as good as Turner and Wagner have been they aren’t Bak and the Tampa DE are elite.   Losing Aaron Jones during the game took away another key weapon.  

So yes, it does come back to Jordan Love because they don’t have the cap space to resign guys like Linsley or Aaron Jones and anyone that thinks this team will be as good as this year is simply dreaming.  Rodgers cannot play any better than he did this year and it wasn’t enough.

The good news is if they are going to rebuild and reset they could get a haul for Rodgers.  His value will never be higher than it is now.  Trading him also relieves them of the cap issues they have because he’s set to make nearly 40MM in 2021.  If they dealt him after June 1 they actually pick up 20MM+ in cap space this year.  Not to mention the bounty they could get back in return in players and picks.  

The Colts are intriguing because they have some young, cheap players and are in need of a QB.   That team could be an instant threat in the AFC with Rodgers and not be in the same conference to worry about.  Plus, they have players like Taylor on offense and Leonard on defense that provide GB with a more complete team to build around Love.  Plus what would be likely several high draft picks.

Yes, Pettine totally screwed the pooch on the defensive call & it would be justified to fire him over it but .... I asked this last week; based on what we saw last night how many of our defensive players would start for TB ? My answer would be 3. Clark, Alexander, and one of our safeties. Now is some of that coaching? Could be, but they have four top 15 picks on their defense.

@Chongo posted:

And Teabag Brady, the purported GOAT,  had 3 INT...but had a fucking defense to bail him out.

You refute your own argument, somewhat, when you insinuate only Brady had a defense yesterday. 3 picks, and only 3 points to show for it would seem to point to the offense being the failure.

To follow up on Tschmack’s post, this might be the time to trade AR. They are facing cap heck, at the very least, and I agree that they can get a haul for him, as he is only 37 and is still the best. The trade would have to be to the AFC, the picks and players package would have to be massive, and they’d need to prepare for an absolute shitstorm from media and fans alike. But, if the right climate occurs, maybe they bite the bullet and start the Jordan Love era (gulp).

Maybe I’m missing something who are their 4 guys on defense (TB) that were top 15 picks?  

Devin White, yes.  But Levonte David was a 2nd rounder.  Same thing with Winfield Jr. Suh was a free agent.  Same with JPP.  The two starting corners are 2nd round picks.  Shaq Barrett wasn’t a TB pick at all.

The players and media will be quick to blame Brian Gutekunst for the failings of the NFC Championship Game, but Green Bay’s best and highest-paid players didn’t play well enough. That’s what cost them.

The bottom line. Fair to question Gutey's last draft strategy, but that's not what cost them the game.

I’m not sure this can be fixed without a trade.  

Much like Brett had it with TT for not adding players Aaron is drifting that way with Gute.  Then there’s the MLF issue and we all know how sensitive 12 can get if he feels disrespected.  It sounds silly, but I think Rodgers lost all faith in MLF after the FG play.  Not sure that relationship can be repaired.  

Hindsight is always 20/20. Woulda coulda shoulda...who cares? National pundits don’t know crap.

@Tschmack posted:

Maybe I’m missing something who are their 4 guys on defense (TB) that were top 15 picks?  

Devin White, yes.  But Levonte David was a 2nd rounder.  Same thing with Winfield Jr. Suh was a free agent.  Same with JPP.  The two starting corners are 2nd round picks.  Shaq Barrett wasn’t a TB pick at all.

just because they weren't picked by TB doesn't mean they are less talented... White (5th player chosen his year), JJP (15th), Suh (2nd), & Vea (12th) ... point wasn't about how well TB drafted but that they have a lot of talent.

Anybody happen to notice who the WR was that King "held" on the game sealing penalty?

That was rookie Tyler Johnson out of Minnesota.

TB selected him in the 5th round about 20 spots after where the Packers would have been picking if they had not traded their 4th round pick to Miami in order to draft Jordan Love.

Johnson also caught a key pass for 16 yards on 3rd down in the first half to continue a drive.

Oh, and Johnson caught a TD in the earlier game against the Bucs.

Was Johnson the, or even a, critical reason that TB prevailed yesterday?

Nah, but he sure as shart contributed more to the Bucs yesterday than did either of the Pack's 1st or 4th round picks ... and more than Equanimious St. Brown did.

My biggest concern about going to Love next year is that he's been healthy the entire year and, at no point based on how he looked in practice or in his discussions with the coaching staff, did MLF think he was a better option to win (or even hold a lead in) a game in an emergency than Tim Boyle. He was literally inactive the entire year.

I would completely understand leaving him inactive if you had an experienced, game-manager type backup QB like a Chase Daniel, Fitzpatrick, Mariota, and a few others. These guys have at least won games in the NFL and experience matters.

But the guy in front of him has no experience either. The guy in front of him threw 11 TDs against 13 interceptions for Eastern Kentucky during his last year in college. AND THAT WAS HIS GOOD YEAR. Before that, he thew 1 TD against 13 interceptions while at UConn.

They drafted Jordan Love in April. He's had 9 months of time to learn the playbook and 5 months of practice reps (at least on the scout team). Yet, if Rodgers would have gotten hurt during a playoff game (for example, having to go into the concussion protocol), MLF thought that Tim Boyle gave them a better chance to win?

Tim Boyle's a nice story about a guy who persevered to stick on an NFL roster, but his regular-season experience is 4 pass attempts and 18 kneel-downs. I guess they really liked what he's shown in the preseason (but not enough to think he could even be a stopgap starter after Rodgers does move on because otherwise, they wouldn't have felt the need to draft Love).

Use a first-round (and 4th round) pick on a QB and then not even think he should be the backup after 9 months on your roster?

Use a second-round pick on a RB and then not want to use him too much in a game so you can give more snaps to Jamaal Williams? Sure, use Williams on third-down, but Dillon should have been on the field more in the second half after Jones went down.

The lack of confidence they showed in these picks to contribute on the field this year (even in an emergency) is at least a yellow caution flag.

@FLPACKER posted:

just because they weren't picked by TB doesn't mean they are less talented... White (5th player chosen his year), JJP (15th), Suh (2nd), & Vea (12th) ... point wasn't about how well TB drafted but that they have a lot of talent.

The Bucs traded a third-round pick for JPP two years ago. They resigned Suh for 8 million a year for one year this offseason. In other words, they invested some resources in being better in the short term.

We spent 6 million on Kirksey. We would never trade a midround draft pick for a player.

Yes, not a "ringing endorsement" of the Love pick if almost immediately in training it is obvious that Boyle is much better. (if it was even  somewhat close common sense dictates you go with Love as backup)

I am not at all in favor of trading Rodgers at all unless they can sign someone with some playing experience in case Love craps the bed.   And I thought I had read that even if they trade him they would have a massive amount of dead money this year and they are already over the cap this offseason.  Honestly as long as Aaron doesn't retire I think we have him for one more season for sure.