@lambeausouth posted:-Brian Gutekunst and Matt LaFleur have been together for six years. The Packers are 3-5 in the playoffs over that span, which includes two MVP seasons from Aaron Rodgers.
How many more chances do they get?
Is there any accountability with this franchise in the year 2025?
What I was saying a few weeks back.
I think I was alone in that opinion, now others are seeing it too, with the Green and Gold glasses off.
Triads. Relative minors. Major 3rds. Diminished 7 chords. Etc. I vi ii V or I V vi IV ? Who's to say?
+++ Doc Benny. A voice of reason after a very frustrating game.
Love has a lot to prove next year. When he exploded in the playoff game at Dallas last year, my feeling about him was still not great. If you look back, many of his throws seemed like 50-50 balls that Packer receivers always came down with. He followed that up with a very up and down 2024. He'll be under the lens next year.
John Harbaugh has had 2 MVP years with Jackson and made one AFC Championship.
Winning in the NFL is hard, doubly so in the playoffs.
@RochNyFan posted:Love has a lot to prove next year. When he exploded in the playoff game at Dallas last year, my feeling about him was still not great. If you look back, many of his throws seemed like 50-50 balls that Packer receivers always came down with. He followed that up with a very up and down 2024. He'll be under the lens next year.
If I remember correctly, there is a "reasonable" out on the contract after next year.
PHI didn't particularly look like world beaters tonight either. The game was there for the taking. I'd be concerned if I were their fans.
That said, Hafley saved his best game for last. PHI's roster is loaded with talent highlighted by an elite OL that is better, to a man, than what GB has. Add joystick Barkley and a bunch of really good receivers and you'd think GB had the better D tonight. And our O spotted them 3 extra possessions, doing them almost no favors all game.
We found a way to run on their elite DL in spots but with a bunch of depth receivers, did not give Love enough room to breathe and find anybody. And when they did 10 had a few too many darkfavre moments.
Overall, this game was very similar to the season as a whole. Herky jerky offense that couldn't capitalize on its defense keeping it close vs good teams.
- Season over
- Much disappointment over all segments of the game.
- D played good but the 2 roughing penalties at the end really HURT the Pack.
- Injuries, hope they all can come back.
- Now what am I going to do on Sundays now?
+ The game is over.
+ Jacobs, as always.
+ Despite no pass rush, the D was solid and the only reason the Packers weren’t blown out.
- The refs and their colossal fuck up on the first play of the game.
- I no longer have high hopes for Love. He was awful today and not very good for most of the rest of the season. He’s had two seasons as a starter and he still makes poor decisions and throws inaccurate passes. I don’t know that that’s ever going to get fixed.
- Way too many injuries. Doubs was especially troubling, IMO. From the replay, it didn’t look like his head hit the ground all that hard, but he was obviously in a lot of pain. That would be two concussions this season. After that you start to wonder how long he’s going to be able to play in the NFL.
- The packers season is over and the NFC is running out of teams that I don’t hate in the playoffs.
@RochNyFan posted:Love has a lot to prove next year. When he exploded in the playoff game at Dallas last year, my feeling about him was still not great. If you look back, many of his throws seemed like 50-50 balls that Packer receivers always came down with. He followed that up with a very up and down 2024. He'll be under the lens next year.
He needs to make better decisions.
But guess what all the top QBs in the league have that 10 doesn't. AR had guys up and down the roster that could win 50 50 balls. Every elite QB has at least one and often more than one of those. That's no coincidence.
It may not solve all of Love's problems (decision making and accuracy) but it's easier to find those type of WRs than it is to find an elite QB.
@EC Pack posted:If I remember correctly, there is a "reasonable" out on the contract after next year.
Nope. They don't have an out until after the 2026 season. His dead cap hit next year is 87.5 million (30 million dollar cap hit). In 2026, his dead cap hit is 59 million with a cap hit of 36 milion. In 2027 that flips to where he costs 42 million to keep and 31 to cut.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pl...id/47621/jordan-love
He wasn't as good as he should have been this year, but if he were a free agent, he'd get at least what the Packers are paying him.
Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Jackson are on another level, but none of the others are significant better than Love. Unless you'd want Jayden Daniels or Herbert (who was worse than Love this weekend).
Vince Lombardi: What It Takes to be Number One
2:10 Min.
"Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all of the time. Winning is ahabit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game, and that's first place. I have finished second twice in my time at Green Bay, and I don't ever want to finish second again. There is a second place bowl game, but it is a game for losers played by losers. It is and always has been an American zeal to be first in anything we do, and to win, and to win, and to win.
Every time a football player goes to ply his trade he's got to play from the ground up - from the soles of his feet right up to his head. Every inch of him has to play. Some guys play with their heads. That's O.K. You've got to be smart to be number one in anybusiness. But more importantly, you've got to play with your heart, with every fiber ofyour body. If you're lucky enough to find a guy with a lot of head and a lot of heart, he's never going to come off the field second.
Running a football team is no different than running any other kind of organization - an army, a political party or a business. The principles are the same. The object is to win - to beat the other guy. Maybe that sounds hard or cruel. I don't think it is.
It is a reality of life that men are competitive and the most competitive games draw the most competitive men. That's why they are there - to compete. The object is to win fairly, squarely, by the rules - but to win.
And in truth, I've never known a man worth his salt who in the long run, deep down in his heart, didn't appreciate the grind, the discipline. There is something in good men that really yearns for discipline and the harsh reality of head to head combat.
@bdplant posted:+ The game is over.
+ Jacobs, as always.
+ Despite no pass rush, the D was solid and the only reason the Packers weren’t blown out.- The refs and their colossal fuck up on the first play of the game.
- I no longer have high hopes for Love. He was awful today and not very good for most of the rest of the season. He’s had two seasons as a starter and he still makes poor decisions and throws inaccurate passes. I don’t know that that’s ever going to get fixed.
He showed late last season, when no name receivers were open on nearly every play, that he was capable of playing at an elite level. That wasn't smoke and mirrors nor against horrible defenses. Go look back at the game reviews on YT. Excellent decision making and accuracy.
Why he hasn't maintained that level of play is a mystery other than the possibility that defenses were prepared this season and the young guys, including Love, didn't take the next step.
This is a big offseason for him and the offense/MLF.
@Harry Manback posted:New president next year with no ties to the organization.
Policy has been with GB since 2012.
I loved your comments, Doc. I was born in Wisconsin in 1951 and have been a Packer fan for as long as I can remember. What luck that we’re not fans of the Bears, Vikings or Lions.
+ The remarkable end to last year led to a lot of anticipation and optimism for this season. It didn’t pan out this year, and there are a lot of things that need to be worked on, but I’m here for the show.
As for axes, I’ll stick with my Fender (Squire) Stratocaster (circa ‘99) and the Big Muff Pi fuzz box I bought when I was a high school teacher in Turtle Lake, Wisconsin in 1975. A year later I moved west and a whole new chapter opened up in my life.
@bdplant posted:- The packers season is over and the NFC is running out of teams that I don’t hate in the playoffs.
For me in the NFC it's coming down to Washington to go all the way. Now that Dannyboy Snyder is gone they are almost tolerable. And I like the job Dan Quinn has done there along with Daniels. Or maybe Tampa. Mayfield doesn't seem to be the POS he was in Cleveland.
Looking good, RW. Watch out, Goldie may come calling! Tell us about that bass (?) on the wall. Also, since I'm a tad younger, can I borrow your hair?
-The Brady illusion has been ruined. I had accepted that he was just a God amongst men. Jaw chiseled from granite. Born leader, through and through.
Then I have to listen to him for 3+ hours and I can only think to myself during all those Super Bowl runs he's over on the sideline with his dorky squeaky voice talkin' about, "guyz guyz, when we get the ball bock we can't give up any socks. Socks are bad we can't give up the socks".
What even is that accent? Is he a Scientologist or something?
@lambeausouth posted:Rock and roll, brother. 🎸🤘🏼🤘🏼
I’m an Ibanez guy. This is my latest baby, a Prestige RG652AHM. It has an original Edge floating tremolo and Gotho magnum tuners, with DiMarzio Air Norton and Tone Zone humbuckers. The body is ash with an antique white finish on the front, and unfinished natural blonde on the back. The 24 jumbo fret super wizard neck is walnut with a maple fretboard, and it’s super comfortable for my hands.
The Japanese craftsmanship on this thing is astonishing.
The only downside is that the RG body is heavier than the S Series I’m used to. But this beauty is seriously one of the finest guitars I’ve ever played in the thirty-five years since I first picked up an axe.
Vintage Kramer guy here. And a few Fenders.
Biggest neg
This team is further away from being a contender at the end of 24 / 25 season than they were at end 23 / 24 season.
We were trending up, now we’re trending down. If the trend continues, you have to look at replacing the beloved Gute.
@lambeausouth posted:Rock and roll, brother. 🎸🤘🏼🤘🏼
I’m an Ibanez guy. This is my latest baby, a Prestige RG652AHM. It has an original Edge floating tremolo and Gotho magnum tuners, with DiMarzio Air Norton and Tone Zone humbuckers. The body is ash with an antique white finish on the front, and unfinished natural blonde on the back. The 24 jumbo fret super wizard neck is walnut with a maple fretboard, and it’s super comfortable for my hands.
The Japanese craftsmanship on this thing is astonishing.
The only downside is that the RG body is heavier than the S Series I’m used to. But this beauty is seriously one of the finest guitars I’ve ever played in the thirty-five years since I first picked up an axe.
The Japanese company with the Mexican name. 
Great guitars, but I’m not fond of the thin Wizard neck profiles. I have built a few and have a variety.
Love was puzzling all year. Did he believe too much of the hype? Not spend enough time in the off-season working on his craft? Is it physical? Does he suffer for lack of a true #1? Was there something in the locker room that wasn't right? I don't know, but every player has to take a look in the mirror and decide if they have truly given everything this season. I think there are a couple who have: Jacobs, X, Kraft. But after that?
MLF has to figure out this herky-jerky offense and call better games -- if he's going to keep doing it -- and I hope he doesn't. He's got to find a groove like he did last year at the end of the year.
Pleasantly surprised at how well the D played. Yes, Saquon could have taken that last carry to the house, but by then GB had thrown in the towel. The DL played hard and did a good job. The O did not give them any support whatsoever.
@BrainDed posted:Biggest neg
This team is further away from being a contender at the end of 24 / 25 season than they were at end 23 / 24 season.
We were trending up, now we’re trending down. If the trend continues, you have to look at replacing the beloved Gute.
The NFC was very down last year (2023) and only the Lions and an aging, fading 49ers teams were "better" than Green Bay by the end of the season.
Now?
Lions are clearly way ahead. Perhaps they fall off some if Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn get head coaching gigs, but adding Aidan Hutchinson will do more to improve Detroit's roster in 2025 than anything Green Bay will do.
Philly beat us twice this season and would win 8 of 10 games if they played one another. That likely ain't changing in 2025.
Minnesota had an excellent offseason, won 14 games, and dominated the Packers when it mattered in both games. Do they regress in 2024 if Flores get a head coaching opportunity and Darnold goes elsewhere? Possibly. Then again, O'Connell looks like the real deal and he is all in on JJ McCarthy. Minnesota also has more money to spend in free agency that GB does. Jefferson is a superstar in his prime and I see the Queens being competitive again next season.
Washington? Would you rather have Love on his contract or Daniels on a rookie deal for the next 3 seasons? Yeah, Jayden and the Commanders look to have a pretty bright future.
Would not be surprised to see the Pack right back where they have been the past 2 seasons, fighting for one of the final wild card spots.
@bdplant posted:Vintage Kramer guy here. And a few Fenders.
My very first guitar was a Kramer-I believe it was a Focus 3000-which I painted blue with yellow stripes a la Eddie Van Halen. I must admit feeling nostalgic seeing Kramers widely available again. Back when I was just starting college, a whole bunch of my favorite guitarists were Kramer endorses, including Andy Timmons, Reb Beach, George Lynch, Vivian Campbell.
When I first saw Van Halen on the OU812 tour at the Bradley Center in October of ‘88, Ed was still playing his Frankenstrat, and still endorsing Kramer (iirc), at least until the F.U.C.K. album was released, when his Ernie Ball custom built came out. Reb Beach had switched to Ibanez, and before long that gorgeous Voyager RBM 400 hit the market. That’s one of my two wet dream guitars, that and the original John Petrucci JPM100 Picasso Ibanez.
The next guitar I buy will be a Fender Strat. My last purchase came down to the Ibanez and a Charvel Pro-Mod San Dimas style 1 super Strat with a pair of Seymour Duncan humbucker, an original Floyd Rose and a push-pull volume knob coil splitter.
Ultimately, the Ibanez won out.
The next buy I’ll make, however, will be a bass, probably a Fender P bass.
Using Jacobs as a receiver and should have done so more.
MLF was never able to get this offense out of the mud. This is a big warning flag.
I think it was the first time I did not hear MLF cite his mistakes during the postgame presser. Didn't heard, "I gotta be better" "It starts with me"
Can we get less shotgun plays?
Confidence Level in MLF is about 40%.
Neg - I'm not certain what the "jet-sweep" motioning is supposed to accomplish, but it seems to not really do anything at all to the defense. And the next time they run it for a significant gain will be the first time in a really long time.
Neg - on that note, the fake "jet-sweep" spin around handoff to Jacobs was brilliant the first two times they ran it earlier in the season, Since the, not so much.
Neg - when was the last time Jordan Love overthrew his WR on a deep ball?
Neg - The team did not have a game this season in which they put together 4 quarters of solid football, At least not against a team with more than 5 wins and playing a bunch of back ups.
Pos - Jacobs was great this entire season. As was McKinney. Great pickups!!
Pos - The defense, despite being put in a hole early, kept the Packers in the game. Looking forward to Hafley's defense in Year 2 (unless he gets a HC job 
)
Pos - Despite the miss, I actually feel confident every time McManus trots out to kick. He needs to be a Packer in 2025.
Positives:
Jacobs, as he was in many games this year, was clearly their team MVP. He played his ass off.
The defense held their own and played good enough to win. I really like what they have in some of the younger guys like Cooper and Williams and Bullard.
Next to Jacobs, Tucker Kraft might be their best weapon on offense. He was a bright spot today and for most of the season.
Negatives:
Everything that haunted them during the year at some point showed up in this game too. Too many penalties. Very questionable play calling at times. A slow start to that game on offense. A very up and down Jordan Love. Nixon making really dumb decisions. No pass rush yet again. Receivers that couldn’t get separation and win 50/50 balls. Overall, it’s interesting just how consistently inconsistent this team was especially on offense.
Despite a relatively close score, there was not one point in this game I actually felt GB had a chance to win. In 6 years now I’m starting to lose faith in MLF and his ability to lead this team. My guess is that he’ll be coaching for his job next season.
Unlike end of last season, I have no idea what the team will do in 2026. I can say that I don’t think the team is trending upward unless they have a phenomenal offseason. If the Bears actually get a good head coach it’s entirely possible the Packers finish last in the division next year. They seem closer to being a 7 or 8 win team than a real contender.
Disappointed but not all that surprised at the Packer performance. Need to see lots of improvement from the players, coaches and organization itself. Notion that we'd see a different team in this game was always just wishful thinking by Packer fans.
Some of the comments I'm seeing on Love are right up there with the bench Davante and start Janis idea from a few years ago. Disappointing year from the QB and he definitely has to play a lot better.
@Fandame posted:Love was puzzling all year. Did he believe too much of the hype? Not spend enough time in the off-season working on his craft? Is it physical? Does he suffer for lack of a true #1? Was there something in the locker room that wasn't right? I don't know, but every player has to take a look in the mirror and decide if they have truly given everything this season. I think there are a couple who have: Jacobs, X, Kraft. But after that?
I think it’s a combo platter. He had many of the same struggles as CJ Stroud.
1. Teams had a year of film to examine his tendencies. A “sophomore slump” is common. If he doesn’t learn and improve next year it’ll be trouble.
2. The receivers weren’t as good. Injuries for Stroud, drops and lack of separation for Love.
3. More consistent running game with a bell cow back changed the offense some.
4. The offensive lines regressed when many expected them to improve.
5. Last year they overachieved, setting expectations at a bit of an unrealistic level.
@Fandame posted:Love was puzzling all year. Did he believe too much of the hype? Not spend enough time in the off-season working on his craft? Is it physical? Does he suffer for lack of a true #1? Was there something in the locker room that wasn't right? I don't know, but every player has to take a look in the mirror and decide if they have truly given everything this season.
It seems that when the opponents are in the defense expected, and thus his first read is open, Love is great. However, he doesn't seem able to see the entire field and quickly pivot to a better option. This from his scouting report from college:
" Love's accuracy took a step back, and his delayed reaction from "see it" to "throw it" when making reads is troubling."
The most frustrating thing about Love is he HAS shown the ability to do all those things his scouting report said he couldn't. He did it the last 6 games last year. That play was confirmed by QB analysts across the board.
As with any QB, his offense and playcaller are all a package deal. Defenses were better prepared and our WRs did not progress.
Whatever the case for the backslide, 2025 looks like a hinge point for MLF and Love.
They're also going to need Gute to step up and give them help. The talent differential between GB and MIN/DET/PHI is hard to ignore.
@RoyalWulff posted:
As for axes, I’ll stick with my Fender (Squire) Stratocaster (circa ‘99) and the Big Muff Pi fuzz box I bought when I was a high school teacher in Turtle Lake, Wisconsin in 1975. A year later I moved west and a whole new chapter opened up in my life.
My stuff...
@RochNyFan posted:Love has a lot to prove next year. When he exploded in the playoff game at Dallas last year, my feeling about him was still not great. If you look back, many of his throws seemed like 50-50 balls that Packer receivers always came down with. He followed that up with a very up and down 2024. He'll be under the lens next year.
As I said in the offseason thread Love needs more from the WR group. They have to stop dropping passes 3-4 times a game and the two best receivers Watson and Doubs have had some seriously bad luck with injuries. You have those two things going on and the majority of NFL QBs and the offense in general is going to struggle.
Yes, I agree Love does force it sometimes, but he probably feels like he has to because outside of Kraft who does he have that's reliable?
As for the game yesterday, I was beyond pleased with the defense they played their hearts out given their personnel limitations. If Gute continues to give Hafley good players I am very happy with the direction this defense is going.
@Fandame posted:Love was puzzling all year. Did he believe too much of the hype? Not spend enough time in the off-season working on his craft? Is it physical? Does he suffer for lack of a true #1? Was there something in the locker room that wasn't right? I don't know, but every player has to take a look in the mirror and decide if they have truly given everything this season. I think there are a couple who have: Jacobs, X, Kraft. But after that?
MLF has to figure out this herky-jerky offense and call better games -- if he's going to keep doing it -- and I hope he doesn't. He's got to find a groove like he did last year at the end of the year.
Pleasantly surprised at how well the D played. Yes, Saquon could have taken that last carry to the house, but by then GB had thrown in the towel. The DL played hard and did a good job. The O did not give them any support whatsoever.
I'd add Zach Tom to your list, Fandame.
Where the hell were the 2TE sets last night? Did Musgrave play? Did PHI anticipate MLF going to it considering the WR situation and were prepared to take it away? Never seemed to really materialize.
@The Heckler posted:As I said in the offseason thread Love needs more from the WR group. They have to stop dropping passes 3-4 times a game and the two best receivers Watson and Doubs have had some seriously bad luck with injuries. You have those two things going on and the majority of NFL QBs and the offense in general is going to struggle.
Yes, I agree Love does force it sometimes, but he probably feels like he has to because outside of Kraft who does he have that's reliable?
As for the game yesterday, I was beyond pleased with the defense they played their hearts out given their personnel limitations. If Gute continues to give Hafley good players I am very happy with the direction this defense is going.
Add in the lack of plays to the TEs and you have the GB offensive woes problem, in the open. How many plays did Musgrave get the ball thrown his way? Kraft? Kraft was used on the Cheese Sweep, twice, and had 1 or 2 throws go his way in the game. I think MLF uses the TEs for blocking, more than as targets for Love. I haven't seen a "Hollywood" play, in months. We needed speedy receivers and did not use Musgrave, after he came back from his injury, hardly at all. Now we need Reed, Watson and Doubs to take the off season to get healed up. I hope their injuries are not devastating.
I think 2 of 3 are. I wouldn't be surprised in Doubs walked away. And Watson is a year away at best.
In games like these, your best players have to play lights out. Love didn't do that, nor did Zach Tom, nor Nixon (who is supposed to be an All-Pro returner).
The lack of urgency/hurry-up in the 4th quarter is completely bonkers. The Packers did little hurry up throughout the year. Their offensive tempo has been so slow and laborious and was again today.
The defense was great considering the circumstances, having no help from special teams or offense.
Good one from Bill Michaels...
https://fb.watch/x4ZY4sQ_WY/
@bvan posted:Good one from Bill Michaels...
https://fb.watch/x4ZY4sQ_WY/
Yup...don't care how much of an offensive jeenyus MLF may be...he's not, nor ever has been a team-wide attention to details guy...you don't just stop stepping on dicks.
He is who we think he is...but he will be back!
