Parse out your angst about the past & present regimes (Poppinga's comments)

I will also add this.  GnarlsCankles FA splurge was a necessity, not the reaction of some new GM trying to reinvent the wheel.  I do think he will go back to a draft/development philosophy but with a much more surgical approach to FA.

I'm very excited to see what a TT/Newsome influenced front office can do.

My shock from the video was that Cowturd had anything positive to say about the Packers and 12.

The facts is TT had been basically a failure at drafting defense for a number of years. Since 2010 he’s drafted one legitimate defensive starter for the team: Kenny Clark. Mike Daniels would have been even with some of his mental lapses and physical limitations, but he had to pay to many snaps and wore down because there wasn’t enough talent around him. Hayward may have been, but he was tossed aside. Hyde was a zone safety he drafted to play man corner. Kevin King might be good if he could stay healthy. Lowry and MArtinez are decent role players. And that was their defensive core.

Funny things can happen to our hearing when emotions are running high. Brady was being let go in that moment. What he said maybe true, but I agree there maybe some missing context.

I reject the idea the defense has only been addressed for the last two years. They just sucked tremendously in their efforts the years before. 

Additionally, is Nagy a genius? Genius? 

Yeah, that title is just absurd.  New and fresh, for now.

I would say TT simply did not fill in the gaps, so any talent that was drafted was playing on an island.  That may be the most negligent part of TT's approach.  I think failure is an overly strong term.

(I was typing this while Herschel wrote his reply, so somewhat duplicative...)

I disagree with Poppinga that was TT's approach, because despite what he may have told Brady, if you look at his draft picks (which is how TT thought a team should be built) it was spent overwhelmingly on defense.  In the first four rounds, 17 of the 24 picks were spent on defense.  The problem was player selection, because the results were very poor.

The only star has been Kenny King.  Mike Daniels was productive for a couple of years.  The other 15 turned out to be simply average NFL players (who may have shined for a few games here or there) or simply flat out busts.  Missing over and over again on being able to draft more than one difference maker in those five years of drafting, combined with not using free agency, was a major reason our defense has not been very good since the Super Bowl win.

First four rounds since 2011 Super Bowl win:  2012--Nick Perry, Jerel Worthy, Casey Hayward, Mike Daniels; 2013-Datone Jones, Eddie Lacy, David Bakthtiari, J.C. Treeter; 2014--Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Davante Adams, Kyri Thorton, Richard Rodgers; 2015-Damarious Randall, Quinten Rollins, Ty Montgomery, Jake Ryan; 2016-Kenny Clark, Jason Spriggs, Kyler Fackrell, Blake Martinez; 2017- Kevin King, Josh Jones, Montravius Adams, Vince Beigel.

I'm going to pull out the Michael Rodney card (sort of)....

A few years ago I said "The truth always comes out eventually." Sometimes it takes a couple years but it always comes out. Always.

Let's go back to when Woodson was given his release, CW had a problem with the defense mentioned it a little bit. The powers that be didn't like that. Woodson, as a leader in that locker room, should've been given more lee-way. The Jan  2013 debacle vs. the Niners, Dom should've been let go. McStubborn refused to see it or refused to accept it. If not that time, then the Seattle meltdown for sure.

The front office wasted a good 5 years of Rodgers career. The previous front office also wasted about the same amount of time w/Favrey.

Good to see a refreshing change in Packerland. TBH, I think the rest of the league is terrified if Rodgers has a defense he can lean on. 

I was more shocked at how complimentary Cowherd was toward GB versus anything Poppinga had to say.

I was a big TT fan and still think he deserves a lot of credit for what the team accomplished but also think they could have and should have done more to maximize Rodgers performance.  Not signing free agents or being more aggressive in upgrading the roster comes to mind. 

Still, the biggest failure I see is their inability or willingness to make moves on Capers and MM sooner than they did and ultimately TT should have “retired” 2-3 years sooner.  Holding on to people too long is a recipe for disaster but I see it all the time in my line of work.  Not sure if it’s loyalty, not sure if it’s arrogance, not sure if it’s resistance to change.  Perhaps all of the above.  

What I do know is TT spent a lot of high draft picks on defensive players.  He also signed CW and Peppers. 

CWood knew Dom was the problem.  

Extremely skeptical of Brady's recollection of events. Biggest issue I saw (yes, defensive drafting wasn't great) was the blind spot MM had for Dom Capers.

Herschel posted:

The facts is TT had been basically a failure at drafting defense for a number of years. Since 2010 he’s drafted one legitimate defensive starter for the team: Kenny Clark. Mike Daniels would have been even with some of his mental lapses and physical limitations, but he had to pay to many snaps and wore down because there wasn’t enough talent around him. Hayward may have been, but he was tossed aside. Hyde was a zone safety he drafted to play man corner. Kevin King might be good if he could stay healthy. Lowry and MArtinez are decent role players. And that was their defensive core.

Lowry and especially Martinez aren't role players.  Lowry is a stout DL that does his job well.  Martinez is bordering on becoming a stud MLB.  The kid is all over the place and is productive.  Realizing there's more to things than stats, you're talking about 25 year old kid starting his 4th NFL season.  Last year, he had 144 tackles and 5 sacks.  Against the Bares, he led the team with 7 tackles and threw in a sack for shits and giggles.  I'm not saying he's Dick Buttkiss, but that kid is the real deal at MLB.  

TT was a genius at drafting, until he wasn't.  He hung around the organization several years beyond his expiration date because he was Ted-****ing-Thompson.  Same goes for MM, Dom, etc.  Allowing that shit show to continue for several years while wasting away several of Rodgers' prime years is a complete organizational failure.  Hopefully Gute and the boys can salvage the next 5 years of Rodgers' career and win some more trophies.  I like what I'm seeing so far.  

I'll say this about Rodgers though... He hasn't impressed me since 2016.  He wasn't very accurate last season and missed way more throws that we are used to seeing.  He didn't look stellar Thursday night either.  He needs to step it up. 

Has Poppinga gone full Greg Jennings?

Would the media even know who the guy was if he wasn't talking about the Packers and Aaron Rodgers?

He's the kind of marginal talent that Gute seems determined to sweep away.

Because of that, I'm hopeful.

Poppinga is an idiot. He basically called Kyler Fackrell garbage before last season. Fackrell, the guy who had twice as many sacks in 16 games as Poppinga had in his nondescript 8-year career. 

The organization kept MS too long also. He can't coach at this level. But they thought he could. The only time the brass acted swiftly was with RR.

Angst?  Beef?  Are you sure your not talking about:

The Board and Murphy ostriched it. The signs were there, big, flashing,  neon, Vegas size signs.  Dom for sure should have been gone after the SF failures, Mike after the debacle in Seattle. TT? It was obvious that his health was failing at least a couple of years before action was taken. 

We do have a great sledding hill tho.

As Henry said, lets purge the past and look to the promising future.  That's my beef and like Hank Snow I'm moving on.   GO PACK!

TT had some brilliant draft picks.  

Rodgers, CMIII, Jordy, Raji, Nick Collins shit I could go on and on.   Honestly he wasn’t a problem until Murphy fell asleep at the wheel and didn’t kick him upstairs earlier.

Not to mention he was an integral part of the Packers rise in 90s.  

Poppinga has some good takes but he sort of came off like the jilted ex in that interview.  

heyward posted:

Poppinga is an idiot. He basically called Kyler Fackrell garbage before last season. Fackrell, the guy who had twice as many sacks in 16 games as Poppinga had in his nondescript 8-year career. 

To be fair, wasn't Fackrell garbage before last season?  I know a lot of folks here thought he wasn't amounting to much.

slowmo posted:

First four rounds since 2011 Super Bowl win:  2012--Nick Perry, Jerel Worthy, Casey Hayward, Mike Daniels; 2013-Datone Jones, Eddie Lacy, David Bakthtiari, J.C. Treeter; 2014--Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Davante Adams, Kyri Thorton, Richard Rodgers; 2015-Damarious Randall, Quinten Rollins, Ty Montgomery, Jake Ryan; 2016-Kenny Clark, Jason Spriggs, Kyler Fackrell, Blake Martinez; 2017- Kevin King, Josh Jones, Montravius Adams, Vince Beigel.

The Packers won it all in the 2010 season.  First 4 rounds of 2011 draft (after Poppinga's release):

1) Derek Sherrod, 2) Randall Cobb, 3) Alex Green, 4) Davon House

CB Davon House and LB DJ Smith were the only defensive draft picks to make the team.  Defense went #32 in the league with an early playoff exit, which *then* probably led to TT changing his mentality towards drafting for defense.

I was confused why Poppinga was hating on Fackrell last year.  Seemed like a pretty A-hole thing to do at the time.

Boris posted:

I'm going to pull out the Michael Rodney card (sort of)....

A few years ago I said "The truth always comes out eventually." Sometimes it takes a couple years but it always comes out. Always.

Let's go back to when Woodson was given his release, CW had a problem with the defense mentioned it a little bit. The powers that be didn't like that. Woodson, as a leader in that locker room, should've been given more lee-way. The Jan  2013 debacle vs. the Niners, Dom should've been let go. McStubborn refused to see it or refused to accept it. If not that time, then the Seattle meltdown for sure.

The front office wasted a good 5 years of Rodgers career. The previous front office also wasted about the same amount of time w/Favrey.

I have no idea if what Poppinga is saying is accurate or just peddling dirt to get some air time. However, I likewise think that truth will eventually come out about what happened in Green Bay after the Super Bowl win.

Remember, there was a time, not too long ago, that those questioning Thompson's acumen as Packers' GM (and McCarthy's coaching ability to an extent) in the years after the Super Bowl victory were met with incredulity, at best, and more often with scorn and hostility from the "in Ted we trust" loyalists.

The backlash to criticism directed at Ted (and Mike) was understandable to a degree given that the TT-MM combo won a SB in 2010 and experienced a lot of relative success.

Flashing forward to the present, it appears that many Packer fans who formerly were unwilling or unable to contemplate the possibility that Ted played a starring role in team's failure to return to a second Super Bowl with Rodgers at QB are reconsidering that stance.

However, I also have no doubt that there is a segment of Thompson fans who would like to suppress any future discussion (more like criticism) of his role in the team's failure to return to Super Bowl. 

Finally, much of the current criticism being heaped on Ted and Mike would not exist if not for the debacle in Seattle. And while I believe Thompson shoulders the majority of the responsibility for what went on in Green Bay between 2011-2017, there is no denying that he put together a roster in 2014 that should have returned to the Super Bowl if not for the "coaching" of McCarthy and his hand-picked Defensive and Special Teams Coordinators - Dom and Slocum.  

Mike Sherman....Ray Rhodes?

Game on!

Drafting, no matter the organization, is a crapshoot.  TT had some high rounds hits.....and misses.  He had some late round magic and some JAGs.  He hit on some star free agents and whiffed on others (when he ventured into free agency).  With regard to assembling a roster, he was always pretty good to great.

The biggest flaw TT made during his tenure in Green Bay was not forcing the issue with McCarthy regarding Capers (and any ST coach).  It was clear that Capers scheme was old and predictable.  And MM refused to do anything about it.  TT, YEARS AGO, should've made MM replace the DC or MM should have been removed.  And because of MM (and TT's) refusal for change, the defense lost many games, and ultimately, many seasons with an elite QB.

That, IMO, is TT's biggest flaw running the Packers.

The summary comes to this for me.  TT took a smart, common approach used by a handful of teams of draft and develop and took it to an extreme.  I think he kept chasing after a formula that he could never reproduce.  The combination of his drafting getting worse towards the end just compounded it.

If anything, TT was too soft.  He didn't like cutting players so I can only imagine it would be 10 times worse when it came to McVince.  McVince obviously checked out after 2014 but that doesn't explain The Wizard just being burnt on a regular occassion.  We're talking about 2013 here at the latest.  It's not like the defense just suddenly and completely evaporated with Super Bowl talent. 

Then there's Murphy.  This is the guy that needs to make the tough decisions and did nothing.  To me it just looks like nobody in the organization was being honest with themselves with winning a past Super Bowl as an excuse.  From Murphy overlooking TT's approach failing, TT overlooking McVince checking out and keeping turd coaches. 

That is an issue for a publically owned team.  It's so important to have that kind of relationship that Harlan and Wolf had and stones to make tough decisions.  TT was an awesome scout but he may have handed off a few too many GM duties.  When that starts to muddy, no one is in control.

All of this "reconsideration" comes with real facts.

Ghost of Lambeau posted:

Angst?  Beef?  Are you sure your not talking about:

Impossible.

And too, gnu not new.

This is for Henry. Cheers fellow Packer fan.

I do not believe there is any one reason the "Past Regime" failed to get back to a second Super Bowl. Certainly, Mac deserves much of the blame, if not for his own failings on offense then for allowing Dom to do the damage he did on the defensive side of the ball and for all but ignoring special teams.

Murphy also shares in the blame, but I recall that Harlan specifically set up the organization so that the team President's duties did not intrude upon football operations. I think Murphy's biggest failure was not saying "organization be damned" and just pulling the plug when it became apparent the football side of the operations was fading.

It is also true that Aaron Rodgers masked a lot of the football-side problems for a long time, and especially in 2016 when he took a 4-6 team to the NFC Championship game. There were always a significant number of Packer fans who were of the opinion the team was not that far away and they could point to finishing among the final 4 in 2016 to support that position.

Murphy, Rodgers, Capers, and McCarthy aside, in my view the individual most responsible for what transpired between 2011 and 2017 is the individual who was in charge of football operations, Ted Thompson.

Before looking at the last 7 years of his time as GM, it is worth reviewing what went right between 2005-2010. First of all, Ted made the best veteran free agent signing in the NFL during that time in Charles Woodson. He also supplemented the roster with a veteran free agent like Pickett and NFL veteran street free agents like Howard Green and Erik Walden, two players who were helpful during the Super Bowl run.

Even more importantly, Ted drafted players at an unbelievable (and not surprisingly unsustainable) level during his first 6 seasons as GM. The list includes Rodgers, Collins, Jennings, James Jones, Jordy, Finley, Sitton, Lang, Matthews, Bulaga, Starks, and Bishop. Note just two of these were 1st round picks and none of these players was drafted higher than 23rd overall (Bulaga).

He also unearthed UDFAs like Tramon WIlliams, John Kuhn, and Sam Shields.

The 2011-2017 draft pick hits were Cobb, Daniels, Bakhtiari, Linsley, Adams, Martinez, and Clark. (King and Jones remain possibles. Those who want to label Hayward, Randall, or Lacy "hits" have at it. However, if they are hits so was Raji and I guess even Hawk).

Unfortunately, in my view, after the Super Bowl win, Ted fell deep in love with "Ted's guys" and apparently there was no one left in the front office (as Schneider, Dorsey, and McKenzie all departed) to check Ted's worst tendencies when it came to favoring his own. Some, but most certainly not all, examples are set forth below.

In 2011, after the Super Bowl win Ted chose to make AJ Hawk, his 2006 1st round pick, one of the highest paid inside linebackers in the NFL and sent Cullen Jenkins, whose arrival in Green Bay pre-dated TT taking over as GM, packing.

After the defense lost Nick Collins and finished dead last in the NFL in yards allowed in 2011, Ted responded not by trading for or signing any veteran free agent defenders who might immediately bolster the defensive talent, but rather by spending his first six picks in the draft on (his rookie) defenders.

After the 2012 season, and after Woodson publicly called out Capers for a crappy defensive scheme against Kaepernick and criticized TT for not adding veteran talent to the D, TT sent him packing. Woodson had another couple of good seasons at safety with the Raiders. Meanwhile, in 2013, TT's 2012 4th round draft pick Jerron McMillian and UDFA "find" M.D. Jennings played some of the worst safety ever seen in Green Bay, at least until another UDFA "find" Kentrell Brice came on the scene. 

 In 2014, Ted paired Hawk (whose average play had by then declined to much worse than average) with Brad Jones (who Ted drafted to play outside linebacker and then gave a not insignificant second contract to) at inside linebacker. The results were so disastrous that Clay was moved to inside linebacker at mid-season.

In 2015, Ted anointed his 2014 3rd round pick Richard Rodgers the starter at TE. The back up was the immortal UDFA Ted find Justin Perrillo. That experiment worked out so well that Ted uncharacteristically dipped into free agency not once, not twice, but three times (Cook, Bennett, Kendricks) to find a replacement for RR.

In 2016, Eddie Lacy was coming off of a 2015 season in which he appeared to be unmotivated and out of shape and in which he was undoubtedly less effective than in his previous two seasons. Nonetheless, Ted decided Lacy would be the guy that season. And who would be his backups? Well just one backup actually. Ted signed an oft-injured and >30 year old RB that offseason to back up the increasingly unreliable Lacy. Who was that RB? None other than Ted's own 2010 draft pick James Starks. When Lacy and Starks both went down during the 2016 season, Ted decided the proper course of action was simply to move 2015 3rd round pick Ty Montgomery from WR to RB where Ty remained until Gutey shipped him out for a 7th.

Of course, I don't think anything quite compares to the defensive backfield situation in 2016 when it comes to Ted's stubborn refusal to go outside the Packers own organization to add talent. A refusal that resulted in hapless Gunter getting torched by Dez and Julio Jones in consecutive weeks in the playoffs.

There are many more examples of Ted favoring his own while ignoring talent around the league. Somehow, 4th round bust Carl Bradford was with the team for nearly 3 seasons (mostly on the practice squad). After the 2016 CB shit show, Ted actually decided he needed to sign a veteran free agent for 2017. And who did he sign? His former 4th round pick Davon House who had been cut loose by Jacksonville after disappointing there. Nick Perry was brought back after his first 4 consecutive disappointing seasons to start his career (2, 4, 3, and 3.5 sacks). That worked out OK in year 5 and turned into a disaster for years 6, 7, and 8.

Any one of the above-cited examples can (and no doubt will) be scrutinized and criticized for not fitting the narrative that Ted favored his own and neglected to add veteran talent from outside Green Bay. What cannot be denied is that the Packers signed fewer veteran free agents than any other NFL team, made virtually no player trades, and proudly declared that they had the fewest number of players who had ever appeared on another NFL roster during the second part of Ted's time as GM.

Why Ted was so reluctant to add a veteran or two to push the team being quartebacked by Rodgers over the hump, especially when there were such glaring holes on the roster, I'll never know. I will say, there is no way the team gets to the NFC Championship in 2014 without Peppers (his strip of Murray in the game against the Cowboys in the playoffs being just one of the reasons he was so valuable that season), so it befuddles me even more that Ted disdained free agency as much as he did.

In any event, in my view, Green Bay's unparalleled commitment to sticking with its own created a culture of complacency. Players got paid who did not deserve to get paid, players got playing time who did not earn it, and coaches hung around long after they should have been canned. In my view, the individual most responsible for creating that culture is Ted Thompson.

Boris, No one wasted the FF years more than FF himself. The whining and crying after every season the last 5 years and the ****ing pussy with the hand warmers throwing an interception in the NFCCG against the Giants will never be forgiven.

SteveLuke posted:

TL;Don't give a shit.  Skimmed for victimhood.

Atta girl.  Feel better now or do you need someone to hold you?

Pakrz posted: He didn't look stellar Thursday night either.  He needs to step it up. 

This. 

Poppinga literally says the convo he had with TT was when he got cut.  I'm pretty sure he wasn't exactly in the right head space at the time regardless of what TT told him.  Also keep in mind Poppinga ended the prior year on IR and only had 14 tackles in the 6 games he did play.  He should have had a pretty good idea why he was getting cut, TT didn't have to tell him.

That season (2011) the media talk during the season was all about the Packers having to outscore teams because the D wasn't great.  And they did it many weeks.  However there's no way that was the plan, it was just what was done because it had to be to win games.

My take is Poppinga is having some sour grapes and writing some revisionist history based on hindsight being 20/20 in order to stir the pot.

You can bag on TT for a bunch of stuff (and I won't forgive him for letting Heyward walk) but I don't think this is one of them.

As far as MM you can point to the exact game he was figured out.  2015, week 8 vs Denver.  Denver's defense wrote the blueprint on how to beat MM's scheme.  And every team copied it, MM never changed, and we all suffered.

Consider MM's record with AR starting from 2009-2015 up until that game:  70-23

Now consider MM's record with AR starting from that game in 2015 through 2018: 22-22-1

Remember that's with AR starting, I'm not counting the games he was hurt.

The problem is early success like that gives you a really long rope and teams are scared the alternative might be worse than just doubling down and trying to right the ship.  But doing that is how you end up with a .500 record over 3 1/2 years and wasting your HOF QB's time.

SteveLuke posted:

This is for Henry. Cheers fellow Packer fan.

I do not believe there is any one reason the "Past Regime" failed to get back to a second Super Bowl. Certainly, Mac deserves much of the blame, if not for his own failings on offense then for allowing Dom to do the damage he did on the defensive side of the ball and for all but ignoring special teams.

Murphy also shares in the blame, but I recall that Harlan specifically set up the organization so that the team President's duties did not intrude upon football operations. I think Murphy's biggest failure was not saying "organization be damned" and just pulling the plug when it became apparent the football side of the operations was fading.

It is also true that Aaron Rodgers masked a lot of the football-side problems for a long time, and especially in 2016 when he took a 4-6 team to the NFC Championship game. There were always a significant number of Packer fans who were of the opinion the team was not that far away and they could point to finishing among the final 4 in 2016 to support that position.

Murphy, Rodgers, Capers, and McCarthy aside, in my view the individual most responsible for what transpired between 2011 and 2017 is the individual who was in charge of football operations, Ted Thompson.

Before looking at the last 7 years of his time as GM, it is worth reviewing what went right between 2005-2010. First of all, Ted made the best veteran free agent signing in the NFL during that time in Charles Woodson. He also supplemented the roster with a veteran free agent like Pickett and NFL veteran street free agents like Howard Green and Erik Walden, two players who were helpful during the Super Bowl run.

Even more importantly, Ted drafted players at an unbelievable (and not surprisingly unsustainable) level during his first 6 seasons as GM. The list includes Rodgers, Collins, Jennings, James Jones, Jordy, Finley, Sitton, Lang, Matthews, Bulaga, Starks, and Bishop. Note just two of these were 1st round picks and none of these players was drafted higher than 23rd overall (Bulaga).

He also unearthed UDFAs like Tramon WIlliams, John Kuhn, and Sam Shields.

The 2011-2017 draft pick hits were Cobb, Daniels, Bakhtiari, Linsley, Adams, Martinez, and Clark. (King and Jones remain possibles. Those who want to label Hayward, Randall, or Lacy "hits" have at it. However, if they are hits so was Raji and I guess even Hawk).

Unfortunately, in my view, after the Super Bowl win, Ted fell deep in love with "Ted's guys" and apparently there was no one left in the front office (as Schneider, Dorsey, and McKenzie all departed) to check Ted's worst tendencies when it came to favoring his own. Some, but most certainly not all, examples are set forth below.

In 2011, after the Super Bowl win Ted chose to make AJ Hawk, his 2006 1st round pick, one of the highest paid inside linebackers in the NFL and sent Cullen Jenkins, whose arrival in Green Bay pre-dated TT taking over as GM, packing.

After the defense lost Nick Collins and finished dead last in the NFL in yards allowed in 2011, Ted responded not by trading for or signing any veteran free agent defenders who might immediately bolster the defensive talent, but rather by spending his first six picks in the draft on (his rookie) defenders.

After the 2012 season, and after Woodson publicly called out Capers for a crappy defensive scheme against Kaepernick and criticized TT for not adding veteran talent to the D, TT sent him packing. Woodson had another couple of good seasons at safety with the Raiders. Meanwhile, in 2013, TT's 2012 4th round draft pick Jerron McMillian and UDFA "find" M.D. Jennings played some of the worst safety ever seen in Green Bay, at least until another UDFA "find" Kentrell Brice came on the scene. 

 In 2014, Ted paired Hawk (whose average play had by then declined to much worse than average) with Brad Jones (who Ted drafted to play outside linebacker and then gave a not insignificant second contract to) at inside linebacker. The results were so disastrous that Clay was moved to inside linebacker at mid-season.

In 2015, Ted anointed his 2014 3rd round pick Richard Rodgers the starter at TE. The back up was the immortal UDFA Ted find Justin Perrillo. That experiment worked out so well that Ted uncharacteristically dipped into free agency not once, not twice, but three times (Cook, Bennett, Kendricks) to find a replacement for RR.

In 2016, Eddie Lacy was coming off of a 2015 season in which he appeared to be unmotivated and out of shape and in which he was undoubtedly less effective than in his previous two seasons. Nonetheless, Ted decided Lacy would be the guy that season. And who would be his backups? Well just one backup actually. Ted signed an oft-injured and >30 year old RB that offseason to back up the increasingly unreliable Lacy. Who was that RB? None other than Ted's own 2010 draft pick James Starks. When Lacy and Starks both went down during the 2016 season, Ted decided the proper course of action was simply to move 2015 3rd round pick Ty Montgomery from WR to RB where Ty remained until Gutey shipped him out for a 7th.

Of course, I don't think anything quite compares to the defensive backfield situation in 2016 when it comes to Ted's stubborn refusal to go outside the Packers own organization to add talent. A refusal that resulted in hapless Gunter getting torched by Dez and Julio Jones in consecutive weeks in the playoffs.

There are many more examples of Ted favoring his own while ignoring talent around the league. Somehow, 4th round bust Carl Bradford was with the team for nearly 3 seasons (mostly on the practice squad). After the 2016 CB shit show, Ted actually decided he needed to sign a veteran free agent for 2017. And who did he sign? His former 4th round pick Davon House who had been cut loose by Jacksonville after disappointing there. Nick Perry was brought back after his first 4 consecutive disappointing seasons to start his career (2, 4, 3, and 3.5 sacks). That worked out OK in year 5 and turned into a disaster for years 6, 7, and 8.

Any one of the above-cited examples can (and no doubt will) be scrutinized and criticized for not fitting the narrative that Ted favored his own and neglected to add veteran talent from outside Green Bay. What cannot be denied is that the Packers signed fewer veteran free agents than any other NFL team, made virtually no player trades, and proudly declared that they had the fewest number of players who had ever appeared on another NFL roster during the second part of Ted's time as GM.

Why Ted was so reluctant to add a veteran or two to push the team being quartebacked by Rodgers over the hump, especially when there were such glaring holes on the roster, I'll never know. I will say, there is no way the team gets to the NFC Championship in 2014 without Peppers (his strip of Murray in the game against the Cowboys in the playoffs being just one of the reasons he was so valuable that season), so it befuddles me even more that Ted disdained free agency as much as he did.

In any event, in my view, Green Bay's unparalleled commitment to sticking with its own created a culture of complacency. Players got paid who did not deserve to get paid, players got playing time who did not earn it, and coaches hung around long after they should have been canned. In my view, the individual most responsible for creating that culture is Ted Thompson.

Disagree.

Steve Luke nailed it.

Steve Luke needs a binkie and constant affirmations.

Maybe he'll understand his posts read like manifestos (I've been wronged and someone has to pay) and take up a posting style like the self fellatiating novel he just wrote.

Pakrz posted: Disagree

SteveLuke posted:

This is for Henry. Cheers fellow Packer fan.

{WTF?!?} Snip

TL;No way is anyone reading that & you didn't write it.

I had almost forgot about the Giants NFC CG debacle with puss boy FF. Thanks for reminding me, GBFanForLife

I think the context that's missing from Poppinga's comments is the personalization of his release. IOW, it wasn't "We're going in another direction", it was "We're going in a different direction without you".

I get a TMZ vibe from it where the dialogue becomes scripted, and the "production" is skewed to create sensationalism rather than reveal real facts.
The show it was on must be considered first and foremost.

The rest of the stuff I try not to get too excited about. No doubt I'll praise 'em when they do good, and I will bitch and moan when they do stuff I don't like. But, ultimately, those are decisions that I'll never make, and if I let myself get too emotionally involved over them, it removes too much of the fun of being a fan.

Some common ground I think we can all stand on:
For every good personnel decision TT made, there's a corresponding failure.
Accountability from Murphy down was non-existent 2016-2018.
Accountability from MM never existed, period. Staff and players both.
These all combined to make the team stagnant. MM's offense grew stale, Dom's defense had mold growing, and the roster imploded when injuries decimated starters and primary backups at the end of the 216 season.

The FO side was just as bad. Turmoil was building, TT's  failing health was a complication, and there was sniping and back-biting everywhere; players, coaches, executives, and others.

That they managed to keep that turd afloat another year or two was amazing.