Limburger, I guess we just disagree. You can't just quit running the ball when you're not averaging 3+ YPC and pass the ball 80% of the time when you have the lead. We've seen this team do that and it gets ugly when the opposing front 7 just tees off on Rodgers knowing the Packers won't run the ball (see the Seattle game).
MM calling run plays isn't the problem. It's that the offense isn't executing the run plays he calls, or he's calling the wrong run plays.
CU - Running is great...and they won while sticking with the crappy run game. The problem was he kept running Green (where was Starks??) up the middle behind the center. There was absolutely no push in the middle and MM kept clalling the same type of plays. Where were the misdirections, sweeps, tosses left or right, etc. And again, where the hell was Starks!!
edit - the only thing I can think about Starks not getting a try late was his 'propensity' in the past to fumble. Maybe M didn't want to chance it with him.
edit - the only thing I can think about Starks not getting a try late was his 'propensity' in the past to fumble. Maybe M didn't want to chance it with him.
quote:Originally posted by CUPackFan:
Limburger, I guess we just disagree. You can't just quit running the ball when you're not averaging 3+ YPC and pass the ball 80% of the time when you have the lead. We've seen this team do that and it gets ugly when the opposing front 7 just tees off on Rodgers knowing the Packers won't run the ball (see the Seattle game).
MM calling run plays isn't the problem. It's that the offense isn't executing the run plays he calls, or he's calling the wrong run plays.
I don't think we disagree entirely. I, like you, feel a running game is important. And yes, execution in the running game today was terrible, but very few adjustments were made. I never said we should throw the ball "80% of the time", but I am saying that MM should have changed his play calling when what was being called wasn't working.
I think what is concerning is that, per ARod, the Jags only had 6 men in the box and we still couldn't get it done. McCarren said during the game there was poor blocking, not at the point of attack, but the adjacent man to the point of attack not sealing. Then add in Green, who was never a between the tackles runner at Hawaii, missing some cutbacks and holes, and we end up at 2.5 yards per carry.
+
House, Hayward
They don't give style points or we would have lost.
It's a win, and a win is a win is a win.
Good challenge by MM on the reception. It was still a first down, but it limited their field position.
-
Good grief we make it tough on ourselves against a bad opponent. Our second string is better than their first string, yet we made them look like a good team.
+ and - : Green still looks a bit hesitant at times, but when he sees a hole he tries to hit it. The problem is finding any type of hole bigger than one for a mouse. One thing good was at the end of the game Green was wrapping two hands around it at the expense of a yard or two. Smart to protect the ball and just go down rather than fight and possibly lose it.
House, Hayward
They don't give style points or we would have lost.
It's a win, and a win is a win is a win.
Good challenge by MM on the reception. It was still a first down, but it limited their field position.
-
Good grief we make it tough on ourselves against a bad opponent. Our second string is better than their first string, yet we made them look like a good team.
+ and - : Green still looks a bit hesitant at times, but when he sees a hole he tries to hit it. The problem is finding any type of hole bigger than one for a mouse. One thing good was at the end of the game Green was wrapping two hands around it at the expense of a yard or two. Smart to protect the ball and just go down rather than fight and possibly lose it.
quote:Honestly he had the look of a person who had never caught a football in his entire life.
Finley no longer has hands. He has hams.
aquote:Originally posted by Limburger:
I agree with your point, but the fact is, the running game did nothing today, yet MM kept calling that number. It kept putting the offense in 2nd and long all day. Why keep hitting that button when it's obvious it's not working?
Yes, the fact that the running game isn't working is the underlying minus - but how is that different from the previous 7 games? I would prefer we develop a strong running game, but the fact of the matter is that we do not have one, and the offense sputtered continually when MM called for the run today. In my view, staying with something that is not working is a negative.
I agree. Everytime the Packers got possession MM ran on first down and we got about 2 yards. Not very creative or productive.
We have a MVP QB and a nobody RB, let me see... I think I will give it to the RB, yeah that's it.
++
They won
5-3 now
No major injuries
--
Shankwell
Jerkmichael
Running game
They won
5-3 now
No major injuries
--
Shankwell
Jerkmichael
Running game
Limburger, so we really agree. It's not the abundance of run plays MM called, it's the inability to execute called run plays or MM calling the wrong run plays. I think we can all agree on that.
+ we won
- why does the Pack makes the game closer when it has to be, especially when the opposing quarterback has a torn labia?
- why does the Pack makes the game closer when it has to be, especially when the opposing quarterback has a torn labia?
+ got out with a win
+ Somehow Rodgers is still upright,tho the OL damn near got him killed
+ DD got a TD
- OL (OL??? Really) need a coach
- Capers "soft zone"
- Chokers = Cosby,Finley
+ Somehow Rodgers is still upright,tho the OL damn near got him killed
+ DD got a TD
- OL (OL??? Really) need a coach
- Capers "soft zone"
- Chokers = Cosby,Finley
quote:Originally posted by Snoozebutton:
+ McMillian, Hayward, and House all look to be on the rise.
Special teams looked good.
They came out flat but found a way to win. Not easy in the NFL
- O-line. I'm expecting a D-lineman to take the hand off pretty soon as fast as they're getting back there.
McMillian had a rough start but I'm not going to crucify a guy when we saw Hayward make a rookie mistake. I feel good about the CB position but man do they miss the experience of Woodson and Collins.
+ Hawk filling to tackle the receiver in the flat in the 4th. I really didn't believe it was him because he got there so fast.
- Hawk missing the tackle allowing the guy to run another 20 yards.
- Hawk missing the tackle allowing the guy to run another 20 yards.
Brutal, but Crosby is soft. Physical talent, choker mindset.
Me too. I thought it was Clay at first and couldn't believe he missed the tackle. Hawk is what he is. Old reliable both good and bad. He's got that Nick Barnett aura that he's reliable enough not to replace but doesn't take over games. That's not to say I don't appreciate what he does do but his tackling form is god awful and has been forever.quote:Originally posted by RatPack:
+ Hawk filling to tackle the receiver in the flat in the 4th. I really didn't believe it was him because he got there so fast.
quote:Originally posted by Mcpacker64:
+ got out with a win
+ Somehow Rodgers is still upright,tho the OL damn near got him killed
+ DD got a TD
- OL (OL??? Really) need a coach
- Capers "soft zone"
- Chokers = Cosby,Finley
agree with these and add:
+ Jones
+ Punt block for a TD is one of my favorite plays in football
+ played one of the worst games we could and still got the W
+ refs helped us out a few times
I know were forbidden to have negatives according to some posters but:
- Alex Green needs to do more out of the backfield. I know the OL isnt great but retread Benson was getting much more production. Green hasnt shown anything that a Super Bowl contender can rely on.
- Masthays locking on to 1 receiver
- lack of preparation/intensity. Hopefully this is a wake up call for a big game next week vs a much better AZ team
Positives
Lucky they were playing the Carolina.
Negative
The big one is Finley; Ha has become less than a non-factor in games he is turning into a liability. Do the Packers bother to bring him back next year? What is going on with this guy, when teams feared him he was a big part of the Packers offence, several years ago he was such an important part of the team they ran their offence threw him.
Lucky they were playing the Carolina.
Negative
The big one is Finley; Ha has become less than a non-factor in games he is turning into a liability. Do the Packers bother to bring him back next year? What is going on with this guy, when teams feared him he was a big part of the Packers offence, several years ago he was such an important part of the team they ran their offence threw him.
+
ARod-if it weren't for his athletic abilities and scrambling, our offense would have ZERO production. If not worse.
Cobb-this guy is a playmaker, plain and simple. MM should be going into overtime designing plays to get the ball in his hands.
James Jones-still pretty solid, and apparently the only WR able to get separation that isn't injured.
DD-still puzzled by his lack of playing time. Whatever the reasoning behind it, we sorely miss his quick slants over the middle.
Neal-going to throw him a bone because he keeps getting nicked in the games he's played, and keeps returning. Hope that continues for this week as well.
Rookie DB's-continue to play relatively well.
-
OL-it's difficult to find words to express how bad these guys are playing. On both of the Jags sacks, not 1(!); not 1 guy out of 5 got a block...against 4 rushers!! From a team with a defense barely averaging barely 1 sack/game!!!That's just about as bad as it gets.
Pass Rush-other than CM3, and the rare blitz that gets through, it's almost non-existent. There is some pressure, but it's not even coming close to getting to the QB consistently. Another scintallating performance...against the worst (by far!) offense in the league!
ARod-if it weren't for his athletic abilities and scrambling, our offense would have ZERO production. If not worse.
Cobb-this guy is a playmaker, plain and simple. MM should be going into overtime designing plays to get the ball in his hands.
James Jones-still pretty solid, and apparently the only WR able to get separation that isn't injured.
DD-still puzzled by his lack of playing time. Whatever the reasoning behind it, we sorely miss his quick slants over the middle.
Neal-going to throw him a bone because he keeps getting nicked in the games he's played, and keeps returning. Hope that continues for this week as well.
Rookie DB's-continue to play relatively well.
-
OL-it's difficult to find words to express how bad these guys are playing. On both of the Jags sacks, not 1(!); not 1 guy out of 5 got a block...against 4 rushers!! From a team with a defense barely averaging barely 1 sack/game!!!That's just about as bad as it gets.
Pass Rush-other than CM3, and the rare blitz that gets through, it's almost non-existent. There is some pressure, but it's not even coming close to getting to the QB consistently. Another scintallating performance...against the worst (by far!) offense in the league!
Maybe not as a workhorse but he definitely has skills that can be put to use. Green's biggest problem is he's being asked to do things he's not ideally suited for. Only problem is as of right now he's the best option on the roster. He's certainly giving his best effort. The kid can play he just isn't an every down back. Pretty sure he doesn't have a fumble yet and that's huge. If he could do everything he wouldn't have been there in the third round.quote:Green hasnt shown anything that a Super Bowl contender can rely on.
I think part of the issue now is the Packers design their bottom (3rd and 4th) of the roster RB's around special teams, Have to give to get and the way they design the roster is to always have cheap RBs who can contribute on the third tier of starters.
You can give a Grant a big contract when your QB is going to give a ton of performance from a price to value index. When the QB matures you have to get money from somewhere and it becomes RB roulette by necessity. When the QB is the core the RB rarely will be as well. If they hit on enough picks to give depth everywhere else and the right RB was there in the draft they'd certainly take him. Hard to do when Sherrod gets hurt and the pass rush is so woeful.
Starks was expected to develop into the 1st and 2nd down workhorse RB and for whatever reason he hasn't gotten there to the satisfaction of the coaches. It's a big hit to the offense. Benson was brought in as a 1st and 2nd down grinder on the cheap. Was working well too.
I think the positive to take out of the Green promotion is he's shown he should be the third down guy when Benson gets back. He's perfect for the role.
Another +
Johnny White's special teams play. Did alright for a new guy.
Johnny White's special teams play. Did alright for a new guy.
@jasonjwilde
Most impressive thing about the @devo_31/@DezmanM blocked put for TD? #Packers had only 10 men on field, per @RobDemovsky.
Most impressive thing about the @devo_31/@DezmanM blocked put for TD? #Packers had only 10 men on field, per @RobDemovsky.
Early report on injuries from the game:
Worthy got a concussion on the 2nd half kickoff and didn't return.
Mike Neal has an ankle injury and also didn't return.
Worthy got a concussion on the 2nd half kickoff and didn't return.
Mike Neal has an ankle injury and also didn't return.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Brutal, but Crosby is soft. Physical talent, choker mindset.
Not a fan. What is his record for big kicks. Less than 50 percent, I bet.
quote:Originally posted by CUPackFan:
Limburger, so we really agree. It's not the abundance of run plays MM called, it's the inability to execute called run plays or MM calling the wrong run plays. I think we can all agree on that.
Generally speaking, yes. I would add though that MM should have thrown more on 1st down today. That may have set up the run for later downs. But the end result of today's playcalling was 2nd and long way too often. I got the sense that MM was trying to forcefeed the running game. If that isn't working, you need to be willing to alter the plan.
....Jags were attempting to force us to run by only playing 6 guys in the box. When AR sees this he is supposed to call running plays. Our oline just didn't get it done & take advantage of favorable numbers.
quote:Not a fan. What is his record for big kicks. Less than 50 percent, I bet.
So you're saying he could take penalties for England?
I was distraught DD didn't dive into the crowd with the mirror ball trophy.
Something he could do a replay of in Lambeau and likely get a token from ABC.
Something he could do a replay of in Lambeau and likely get a token from ABC.
quote:I was distraught DD didn't dive into the crowd with the mirror ball trophy.
This is why he didn't...
Is that David Letterman holding the trophy and a smoke?
I have no respect for anyone that drinks Busch Light.
I have no respect for anyone that drinks Busch Light.
+ My first game at Lambeau, Weather was beautiful; the experience was even better than I imagined; Hawk blew a tackle,but otherwise good tackling thru out, stout against the run, pass rush could have been better and coverage was not perfect-but otherwise it reminded me of a Fritz Shurmer bend don't break outing-- Gabbard did a nice job with simple check downs..but despite all the yards they had a 2 minute warning field goal and a touchdown after a fumble on the 11....otherwise, not much....the young guys all look like players.
-Our O-line is way below average. I carped about Alex Green's performance last week, but I can see why he was not hitting creases...there were no creases...and..Alex Green is a third down back..a positive thing however--and despite his dropped pass---Starks is a horse..he is a legitimate back---when he is healthy he will be far superior to Green on the early downs
-Our O-line is way below average. I carped about Alex Green's performance last week, but I can see why he was not hitting creases...there were no creases...and..Alex Green is a third down back..a positive thing however--and despite his dropped pass---Starks is a horse..he is a legitimate back---when he is healthy he will be far superior to Green on the early downs
+
Defense had a solid game IMO. Couple communication breakdowns, but when you're starters are rookie (Hayward), 1st year starter (House), 2nd year starter(Burnett), 1st year starter (Jennings), and rookie (McMillan) there are going to be some dumb mistakes. They didn't burn us deep which I think is the biggest thing and the best they could muster was dink and dunk down the field...which I will take every week over big plays. I've said this since last season and McCarthy said the same thing last week, passing yardage and other similar stats are for losers and not helpful. What counts is points and only giving up 15 points, even to the Jaguars, is a solid day in my book. You should be able to win if your D is only giving up 15.
Glad to see Jarrett Boykin get a little time. He seemed a lot quicker than I remember him from training camp being. No judgement on what kind of player he will be, but it's good to get young guys some PT and let them get their feet wet. I think he will be called upon to player more next season (with Driver retiring and maybe something with Jennings).
Hayward and House continue to impress me in Bump n Run and Off Man coverage. They were much better in the 2nd half when we went to that versus the first half when we played primarily zone.
_
Hawk and Jones had horrible games. They both missed a couple tackles that resulted in big plays. It's great they were in position and had they made the tackles they would have awesome plays, but they need to use some fundamentals when tackling. Lowing the shoulder and barreling into a 220 lb. RB isn't going to have the same effect as wrapping up and dragging down. Big hits are great when you're in college and you get a sticker for it, but the players in the NFL, even the Jaguar players, are talented and you have to combine great fundamentals with explosive effort if you want to make a play.
Rodgers still holding the ball too long. Credit the Jaguars with covering our receivers well, even though they were short handed, but Rodgers has got to throw it away or take off running. Also I know they want to get down the field and score quickly, but if it's 3rd and 6 just freaking get the 6 and throw deep on the next 1st down.
Couldn't get pressure to save our lives up the middle. Against Houston and St. Louis CJ Wilson and Neal were collapsing the pocket, but they couldn't move an OL when they needed to against the Jags.
The OL isn't opening up holes in the running game. Green isn't a superstar, but if there was a hole open then I'm confident he could gain some good yards. But there weren't and I don't know if it's the blocking scheme or just the OL, but it's not an issue of physical talent.
Defense had a solid game IMO. Couple communication breakdowns, but when you're starters are rookie (Hayward), 1st year starter (House), 2nd year starter(Burnett), 1st year starter (Jennings), and rookie (McMillan) there are going to be some dumb mistakes. They didn't burn us deep which I think is the biggest thing and the best they could muster was dink and dunk down the field...which I will take every week over big plays. I've said this since last season and McCarthy said the same thing last week, passing yardage and other similar stats are for losers and not helpful. What counts is points and only giving up 15 points, even to the Jaguars, is a solid day in my book. You should be able to win if your D is only giving up 15.
Glad to see Jarrett Boykin get a little time. He seemed a lot quicker than I remember him from training camp being. No judgement on what kind of player he will be, but it's good to get young guys some PT and let them get their feet wet. I think he will be called upon to player more next season (with Driver retiring and maybe something with Jennings).
Hayward and House continue to impress me in Bump n Run and Off Man coverage. They were much better in the 2nd half when we went to that versus the first half when we played primarily zone.
_
Hawk and Jones had horrible games. They both missed a couple tackles that resulted in big plays. It's great they were in position and had they made the tackles they would have awesome plays, but they need to use some fundamentals when tackling. Lowing the shoulder and barreling into a 220 lb. RB isn't going to have the same effect as wrapping up and dragging down. Big hits are great when you're in college and you get a sticker for it, but the players in the NFL, even the Jaguar players, are talented and you have to combine great fundamentals with explosive effort if you want to make a play.
Rodgers still holding the ball too long. Credit the Jaguars with covering our receivers well, even though they were short handed, but Rodgers has got to throw it away or take off running. Also I know they want to get down the field and score quickly, but if it's 3rd and 6 just freaking get the 6 and throw deep on the next 1st down.
Couldn't get pressure to save our lives up the middle. Against Houston and St. Louis CJ Wilson and Neal were collapsing the pocket, but they couldn't move an OL when they needed to against the Jags.
The OL isn't opening up holes in the running game. Green isn't a superstar, but if there was a hole open then I'm confident he could gain some good yards. But there weren't and I don't know if it's the blocking scheme or just the OL, but it's not an issue of physical talent.
He needs body armor with the "protection" he's getting.
+
Better to win than lose
Lambeau Field looked incredible at the beginning of the game. HDTV is the best.
-
Finley...playing himself out of a job in GB
Crosby...doubts gets deeper
Better to win than lose
Lambeau Field looked incredible at the beginning of the game. HDTV is the best.
-
Finley...playing himself out of a job in GB
Crosby...doubts gets deeper