Well that sucked.
A few tidbits I've read, Williams gave up 3 earned runs all year, gave up 4 tonight. His playoff ERA is a sterling 23.14.
Brewer relievers have been cursed ever since Fingers got hurt in '82.
@ammo posted:Why not pinch hit Mitchell for Ortiz? Mitchell has some power and showed it last night.
Have to justify the Corbin Burnes trade.
@ammo posted:I read someplace that something 42% of walks leading off an inning score. But that would have made it only 2 - 1 if Williams would have been worth a shit tonight. Hader blew it for the Astros last night, only fitting that Williams blows it for the Brewers tonight.
If you are up more than 1 run in the final inning, a walk is as good as home run for the opposing team. If you have to throw a 80 mph fastball down the middle to avoid a walk, you do it.
Bob Uecker's sign off after the game tonight was difficult. Yelich was almost in tears in his interview and said the hardest part of the whole night was talking to Uecker after that game. A lot of retirements rumors on social media.
If that was it for Bob, what a terrible way for one of the most important figures in Wisconsin sports history to have it end.
I surely didn’t expect the Brewers to have this type of season and there’s a lot to like about this team moving ahead. Chourio especially.
However, you have to wonder why this team doesn’t make the one or two moves to put them in a better position for the postseason and here we are again left wondering what if.
Williams and maybe Murphy will take the heat and rightfully so. But I’m not sure offensively they were good enough and it just seems like ownership is OK with being OK and it’s not going to change. When Yelich went down it was obvious they needed another bat. Bauers ain’t it.
Trying to think of a worse week of Wisconsin sports and this might be it. If the Badgers lose to lowly Purdont this Saturday that would be the icing on the cake.
I had low expectations this year and they far exceeded them. The team is young and there is a lot to look forward too. Still, getting into the post season is hard.
this burns and I will be shitty to everyone at work today
@Tschmack posted:Trying to think of a worse week of Wisconsin sports and this might be it. If the Badgers lose to lowly Purdont this Saturday that would be the icing on the cake.
I watched the whole game and I walked out of the room for a bit with a feeling that something crushing was going to happen and it sure did.
Man, it seems like all of us that root for Wisconsin sports have had our share of being gutted in big spots for our teams and seem to being that for a while now. . Maybe it has more impact because the teams are good but it sure would be nice once in a while to not have this happen.
And BTW I think UW will have its hands full with Purdue this weekend.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Have to justify the Corbin Burnes trade.
Sorry but I don't believe this for 1 second. If anything it was Murphy showing loyalty to a guy who played very good defense but not so much on offense all season. But we needed the player who showed the night before he can come up big in a pressure situation and that was Mitchell.
Not having Yelich to DH was the reason this season has come to an end. They built a big enough division lead that no one could catch them, but they needed the Yelich bat in this short series.
@ammo posted:I read someplace that something 42% of walks leading off an inning score. But that would have made it only 2 - 1 if Williams would have been worth a shit tonight. Hader blew it for the Astros last night, only fitting that Williams blows it for the Brewers tonight.
Yeah, I haven't been too enamored with our closers, for several years, now. Williams gave it up, last night. Hader was never a sure thing, either. Remember Jeromy Jeffress? No lead was safe, when he took the mound. Or how about Derek Turnbow? I'm guessing, but I seem to remember him losing games that we had a lead in, going into the 9th inning. Right now, I think Megill is our best relief/closing pitcher as long as you don't use him for more than two innings. When the Mets brought in their closer, Diaz, in the 8th, I had a really good feeling about the game. Then we saw a 2 run lead evaporate and turn into a season ending loss---and in Milwaukee, no less! SMH.
Why am I not surprised the Brewers managed to piss away a golden opportunity to take the next step forward.
I think Tschmack is right. I too think ownership is OK with just being OK. I get the feeling that fielding a team that’s just good enough to keep drawing fans VS winning a WS is the goal.
There isn’t much more one can say good or bad about this season/team that hasn’t already been said save that I hate the feeling I get when this team comes up small in big game situations. Unfortunately, I have become used to it. I’m done with baseball until next season.
Oh well. At least some of us still have the Fickle Badgers to piss and moan about for a while yet. LOL
We’ve seen this with the Bucks and Packers that have had a lot of recent success that you have to make the most of opportunities when you can because nothing is guaranteed.
The issue with the Brewers is it just seems like they have one or two missing pieces that could have been addressed at the trade deadline and they don’t make the move to put them in a better position come postseason.
i’ve beaten that dead horse a million times and honestly it doesn’t bother me anymore. I don’t expect them to do much in the playoffs because they don’t do everything necessary to set themselves up for success. Until their approach changes, I really don’t think we can hope for anything more than bites at the apple (making the playoffs).
But I will continue to gripe about the playoff format because it’s stupid. You win 93 games and you play a best 2 out of 3? Of course you will see a lot more upsets. You have one bad game and chances are you are screwed. It should be 5 game series at a minimum. Or have a play in game like the NBA. Rewarding teams that go on a run at the end of the year or get lucky to get in seems dumb.
Agreed on the format Tschmack - I didn't mind the old wild-card one and done format. The division winners all get rewarded for winning the division and the next 2 best teams play a single game to advance to the actual playoffs.
Of course MLB will never go back now that they've expanded from 2 to 3 wild card teams. The next step will be letting 8 teams in and nobody gets a bye. First 2 rounds will be 5 game series and the last 2 will be 7 games series.
@Tschmack posted:..... Rewarding teams that go on a run at the end of the year or get lucky to get in seems dumb.
Baseball is 162 games for all teams. The games in September are just as important as the game in April. I don't understand the comment about rewarding teams and getting lucky teams means in baseball. What team or teams got lucky? If you have problem with format do you want to go back to no wild card teams. Only division winners are eligible? Yea, that sucked too...
Attanasio isn't a bad owner at all. He keeps the payroll up more than some small market owners do, but they never get beyond the 60th percentile.
Unlike the NBA and the NFL, there is no salary cap. It's inherently unfair.
Attanasio is a very wealthy man, but compared to the vast majority of the owners he's not that wealthy. I think there are 7 owners worth less than a billion and Attanasio is at 700 million. Juan Soto is going to approach that in his next contract. I think Attanasio has decided he is never going to bottom out the payroll and field an embarrassing team like some small-market owners have. But he also is not going to compete for the marquee free agents with some of the other owners. Juan Soto may approach a contract equal to Attanasio's net worth this off-season.
Steve Cohen, the Met's owner, has a net worth of 17 billion and hands out big-money contracts like they are candy.
Lindor is in the middle of a 10 year, 341 million dollar contract. Nimmo got 8 years and 162 million. They are paying their closer 102 million over 5 years.
The total Mets payroll is 318 million. The Phillies are at 247 million. The Dodgers are at 355, the Yankees are at 325 million. The Padres are at 207 million. The Royals (141) and Tigers (111) are spending less than those teams this year, but they are still spending more than the Brewers and the Tigers run is driven largely by Skubal, who might be the best pitcher in baseball and is making 2.6 million.
Next year, the Brewers will have Chourio, Contreras, and (hopefully) a full year of Mitchell. The large group of elite defensive players that are average (at best) on offense will be back (Turang, Frelick, Perkins, Ortiz). They will have to rebuild their pitching staff and hope that Myers' year was not a mirage. Adames is gone for a contract that will be north of 150 million for 6 years. They will also shed Montas and Miley's cumulative 32 million dollar team options. Unfortunately, Hoskins will probably opt into his 18 million player option, so they are stuck paying 44 million between him and Yelich's surgically repaired back.
The Cubs are about to up their payroll significantly. The Cards will also.
The Brewers weren't likely to win a World Series this year even if they had beaten the Mets. Their best chance since 2018 was probably 2022 when they would have had Woodruff and Burnes healthy and they inexplicably traded Hader for a poo poo platter (Gasser could make that look a little better if he comes back healthy by 2026).
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Attanasio isn't a bad owner at all. He keeps the payroll up more than some small market owners do, but they never get beyond the 60th percentile.
Unlike the NBA and the NFL, there is no salary cap. It's inherently unfair.
If MLB was smart and the players union was smart, they would put in some sort of salary cap (as well as a salary floor) to have as many teams as possible in the running every year. Sure big spending doesn't always lead to success because teams like the Yankees haven't won in in think 15 years. But, I think the sport will become even more profitable if with as many teams as possible in the thick of things.
One of the things that sets the NFL apart from other sports is that there is a hard cap there and their system is designed for parity.
JSO has some good perspective on 2025 regarding the Brewers. It's a bit long but not behind a paywall:
https://www.jsonline.com/story...or-2025/75481801007/
Also wondering if they trade Devin WIlliams who's contract expires after 2025 for something, thinking they won't be able to afford him?
@The Heckler posted:If MLB was smart and the players union was smart, they would put in some sort of salary cap (as well as a salary floor) to have as many teams as possible in the running every year. Sure big spending doesn't always lead to success because teams like the Yankees haven't won in in think 15 years. But, I think the sport will become even more profitable if with as many teams as possible in the thick of things.
One of the things that sets the NFL apart from other sports is that there is a hard cap there and their system is designed for parity.
Even as a Mets fan I would love to see this. Its crazy that teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, Giants, and now with Cohen the Mets just spend with no fear. But then teams like the Rays, Marlins, spend the least they can. But the players association will never allow baseball to have a salary cap. MLB gave that away in the 70s with Marvin Miller. At least the NFL was smart enough to demand the system that is in place.
Another insight into the game last night JonBoy (sp) had a video of Devin Williams tipping his pitches last night and it looked like Alonzo knew a changeup was coming on that last pitch.
@DurangoDoug posted:JSO has some good perspective on 2025 regarding the Brewers. It's a bit long but not behind a paywall:
https://www.jsonline.com/story...or-2025/75481801007/
Also wondering if they trade Devin WIlliams who's contract expires after 2025 for something, thinking they won't be able to afford him?
I think they have to trade him. Maybe if he had two years left before free agency, you'd consider keeping him, but I think he has to go. Everything he does as a Brewer from now on will just be judged based on his meltdown last night.
Thanks for the link to the article. Basically, the likely outcome of this offseason is that they lose Adames; pass on Civale, Montas, and Miley coming back; and trade Devin Williams. The pitching staff will be Peralta, Myers, and some random guys along with Megill as the likely closer.
Their chances of being competitive for a playoff bid will likely hinge largely on what the post-surgery versions of Yelich and Woodruff look like. I'm pessimistic on that. Shoulder reconstructions aren't Tommy John surgeries and its unlikely Woodruff looks anything like he did in his prime. As for Yelich, he's had the back problems for years and, if back surgery was the best way to solve it and retain ability, he'd have had the back surgery years ago. I think he'll become more of a Turang or Frelick type (but with worse defensive ability). That can still have some value, but it's more like a modestly paid veteran making 6-8 million, but it's not worth 104 million for the next 4 years. The Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, or Phillies would just write that off as the cost of doing business. It will hamper the Brewers for the next half decade.
I'm not pessimistic at all. If healthy Yelich is a full time DH unless he could learn to play 1st base. I'm done with Sanchez, Bauer, and Hoskins as DH or even being on the team. We saw our future outfield in Chourio, Perkins, Frelick and Mitchell for several years. I'd be surprised if we ever see Yelich in the outfield for more than 10 games next season, that is unless one of the 4 previous mentioned is out for an extended period of time.
Catching is set with Contreras, Haase and Quero if he recovers from his labrum surgery. Maybe he could be converted to 1st base, I'm not sure of that but he was a Gold Glove catcher in the minors.
Infield is a little more up in the air. If Adames is gone as everyone seems to think then there is a huge hole. Yes, Turang or Ortiz can step in but then you open up another hole. Has Turang turned the corner offensively our will he go back to what he was previously? We don't need to mention his defensive work. As for Ortiz he was just a rookie so I'm hoping he can get much better at the plate. Defensively he is pretty good. If one of them is switched to SS they will have to be replaced and I don't see anyone in the minors ready at this point.
Pitching, somewhat hard to get a handle on this group. Peralta, Woodruff and Civale will be for sure as starters. As for 2 others, ????? Miley has a $12, 000,000 mutual option. I doubt the Brewers will pay him that at age 38. Hall, maybe, same for Rea. Bryse Wilson did start 9 games and Ashby could go either as a starter or reliever. Gasser after the All-Star break if recovered. Bullpen has lots of possibilities. Payamps, Uribe, Ross, Megill, Mears, Koenig, Bukauskas, and minor leaguers Misiorowski and Herget.
Bullpen I see or hope to be gone, Peruero, Williams, Milner.
Just my thoughts. As always the Hot Stove talk, winter trades and free agent signings and then Spring training can't come soon enough. You just gotta believe!!!
I’m more optimistic about Woodruff than Yelich but Woody is a short time fix. I’m 90% sure that Adames and Montas and Miley are gone. I’d say there’s a 50/50 chance that Hoskins is gone.
Williams gives you a lot but if they could get something decent in a trade I’d do it. Megill looks like a natural replacement.
The core group of Contreras and Mitchell and Chuorio and maybe Frelick is pretty decent but if Yelich doesn’t return close to 100% they have a ton of offense to replace for 2025.
I’m less concerned about the pitching especially the bullpen but a number of moves will need to be made to get this team back to 90 wins IMO. They hit a home run with Chuorio and they need another younger guy (pitching or hitting) to step up and fill the gaps.
Don't forget about Tobias Myers as a starting pitcher.
I’d say there’s a 50/50 chance that Hoskins is gone. I thought Hoskins was a player option, not a mutual option. You really think some team will give him more than $ 18 million? If the Brewers DFA him he gets all the money right?
And yes D D, not sure how I forgot Tobias Myers.
Looks like the horseshoe is still firmly implanted.
@PackerBackerDPM posted:Looks like the horseshoe is still firmly implanted.
Lucky? The mets? Most comeback wins in baseball this year. Allowing 1 run in 8 innings against the Phillies isn't luck.
Take it easy, still bitter that’s all. For cripes sakes history says they will no go to the World Series.
As a mets fan I say they won't go to the ws. I keep expecting the carriage to turn back to a pumpkin. Tough decision tomorrow. Mets and packers play at 4. Can't dual screen because sunday ticket is on YouTube. Probably will watch the packers and watch mets on gamecast.
@EC Pack posted:Ummm, 2 TV's side by side?
All are wall mounted. Not worth it
