Another one of the great coaching tree of Mike McCarthy bites the dust. Cant wait until associate head coach Winston Moss gets his chance.
Seriously, his coaching staff is a who's who of nobodys.
Defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo is the Giants’ interim HC.
— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) December 4, 2017
Yes, MM's coaching tree hasn't exactly performed well, to put it mildly.
I hope McCarthy keeps an eye on how the Gints D performs these last 4 weeks. Spag's would look great in GB as the Dom replacement.
Former Chiefs GM John Dorsey is going to be a very hot candidate for jobs now. Expect Giants, Browns and others to inquire for 2018
— Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) December 4, 2017
Hungry5 posted:I hope McCarthy keeps an eye on how the Gints D performs these last 4 weeks. Spag's would look great in GB as the Dom replacement.
The shine is gone for Spags to many NYG fans. First stint as HC went badly. Return to Giants honeymoon lasted 1 year and knocked out first round. He had a top 5 performance a year ago with a $200M investment from Reese. And this year his D has been a mess, outdone only by Ben's offense. He's had a lot of success, but I'd have to admit I don't believe any new DC could step into GB with the personnel they have now and fix the blinding glare of weak spots. I think lobbying the league to abolish 3rd down might be the wisest choice of action at this point.
There should be a Aaron Rodgers coach income generator app.
artis posted:but I'd have to admit I don't believe any new DC could step into GB with the personnel they have now and fix the blinding glare of weak spots.
Absolutely disagree it's a talent issue. There is more than enough to at least be mediocre.
Henry posted:artis posted:but I'd have to admit I don't believe any new DC could step into GB with the personnel they have now and fix the blinding glare of weak spots.Absolutely disagree it's a talent issue. There is more than enough to at least be mediocre.
Agreed. We have talent at every position: Daniels, Clark, CMIII, Perry, Martinez, HHCD, Burnett, King, etc. I firmly believe that a good DC could make this group into a defense that is at least in the top half of the league.
Lambeau Lobo posted:Henry posted:artis posted:but I'd have to admit I don't believe any new DC could step into GB with the personnel they have now and fix the blinding glare of weak spots.Absolutely disagree it's a talent issue. There is more than enough to at least be mediocre.
Agreed. We have talent at every position: Daniels, Clark, CMIII, Perry, Martinez, HHCD, Burnett, King, etc. I firmly believe that a good DC could make this group into a defense that is at least in the top half of the league.
I have always said this same thing and totally agree with you. In my humble opinion I think that many teams have figured out Dom's defense. I do not think it is an accident that for years now teams have had receivers running wild over the middle of the field they have figured out where to attack Dom's defense.
So I guess what I am saying is that if they get a good DC in GB I would bet anyone they will improve in a big time way.
Henry posted:There is more than enough talent to be mediocre.
That is the ringing endorsement of the year! Sounds like something Judge Smails would say about his hs golf team.
Kenny Clark is well on his way to being a special player. Hard to conclude that Dom has squeezed all the available talent out of what he does have.
The Heckler posted:Lambeau Lobo posted:Henry posted:artis posted:but I'd have to admit I don't believe any new DC could step into GB with the personnel they have now and fix the blinding glare of weak spots.Absolutely disagree it's a talent issue. There is more than enough to at least be mediocre.
Agreed. We have talent at every position: Daniels, Clark, CMIII, Perry, Martinez, HHCD, Burnett, King, etc. I firmly believe that a good DC could make this group into a defense that is at least in the top half of the league.
I have always said this same thing and totally agree with you. In my humble opinion I think that many teams have figured out Dom's defense. I do not think it is an accident that for years now teams have had receivers running wild over the middle of the field they have figured out where to attack Dom's defense.
So I guess what I am saying is that if they get a good DC in GB I would bet anyone they will improve in a big time way.
It's also not a coincidence that young QBs like Trubisky, Winston, and Dak Prescott still make some mistakes because they don't know where the pressure is going to come from or where the openings in coverage are going to be.
Dom's defense gets shredded against veteran QBs. Every defense gets shredded by guys like Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Brees. But even guys like Joe Flacco and Andy Dalton this year (and guys like Kyle Orton and Eli Manning in earlier years) seem to be able to make plays they don't against other teams - probably because the defense is easy to beat once you've done a few years of NFL-level film study. The exceptions to this rule seem to be Russell Wilson (who for some reason always tends to struggle against this defense) and Jay Cutler.
artis posted:Hungry5 posted:I hope McCarthy keeps an eye on how the Gints D performs these last 4 weeks. Spag's would look great in GB as the Dom replacement.
The shine is gone for Spags to many NYG fans. First stint as HC went badly. Return to Giants honeymoon lasted 1 year and knocked out first round. He had a top 5 performance a year ago with a $200 investment from Reese. And this year his D has been a mess, outdone only by Ben's offense. He's had a lot of success, but I'd have to admit I don't believe any new DC could step into GB with the personnel they have now and fix the blinding glare of weak spots. I think lobbying the league to abolish 3rd down might be the wisest choice of action at this point.
Ben's offense was done when Odell Beckham Jr. got hurt. The Giants have been terrible, but if Odell plays all year they probably win 2-3 more games. No way do they go however many drives in a row without a TD like they did.
Last year he caught 96 passes for 1450 yards and 13 TDs.
After three games this year (he got hurt in the 4th game), he was on pace for 111 catches, 1409 yards, and 16 TDs.
Wow. 1 elite player makes that big of a difference?
Henry posted:artis posted:but I'd have to admit I don't believe any new DC could step into GB with the personnel they have now and fix the blinding glare of weak spots.Absolutely disagree it's a talent issue. There is more than enough to at least be mediocre.
That's a fair point. Individually there's some vg tallant, I can't argue with that. In terms of playmakers on defense, with Woodson being the exception, is this year's defense all that different from the SB squad re playmakers? That unit was tough up front and got better in the postseason. The secondary embraced the limelight and played a huge part in the playoff run.
To your point- Wood and Collins were playmakers and leaders, i.e. had the tools and smarts to step up their game in the biggest moments. The rest of that secondary followed suit and became the difference in a number of games. Are Burnett and HaHa up to that task? They both have the skills, but there are stretches where the D needs plays from them, and whether it's tallant or scheme, they don't approach the level or consistency of Collins and Woodson. There's tallant at the CB position- they make plays and then they don't. They display the capability of playing at a high level, then disappear.
At LB- I'll concede that to me this is always an enigma. Tallant, scheme, effort, consistency- this has been the most maligned group for years now. There's athletes- they can pressure QB's, they can support the run, and when they get to crunchtime they leave me scratching my head. TE's and RB's tear up our LB's more times than not. But most teams seem to have this issue so I wouldn't know how to assess accurately. It seems to me Ahmad Brooks is a vg fit. Makes plays and is around the ball quite a bit. Clay is Clay- you get great plays and cringe-inducing mistakes. And imo the rest of this group kind of follows his lead. Perry has shown more flashes with each passing year, when he's healthy.
The DL has been impressive to me for a few years now. As goes Daniels, so goes the unit. Their biggest knock to me would be injuries that force Dom to mix and match.
Now could the "right" DC come in and mold a top flight, consistent defense- one that can impose its will whenever they wanted? Probably, yes. This is where I freely acknowledge I cannot diagnose problems in relation to scheme or gameplan, as opposed to athletic ability on the field and recognition of proper assignments. Idk if Capers dials up quality plans, idk if the guys who are great athletes are being put in losing situations. I know that all 3 units have been expected to pick up slack in the absence of #12, and it seems to me that the defense on many occasions has had opportunities to tip the scale in Hundley's and the offense's favor and have failed to do so. Special teams has outright damaged the offense with losing field position battles. And the defense should be counted on to help a new starting QB out.
I'll wrap this up now. To me, yesterday's 2nd half was that perfect storm. The offense extremely sluggish, the defense playing decent for 2 plays, then surrendering another crushing conversion on 3rd down. Time of possession was downright embarrassing. Should Hundley be approaching the point where he's in position to return the favor to the D? Yes, and I think if he had more snaps under his belt that would come. But instead, yesterday, Hundley and the offense stood on the sideline for what felt like forever, watching the utter inability to get off the field on third down. It was excruciating to watch, I can't imagine watching it from the sideline. Feel free to elaborate, Hank...I appreciate the insight and debate. It's been great watching young guys gain experience in this downer of a stretch, and encouraging to see that many of the pieces are there. And disappointing as well, cause I think this year will be a missed opportunity.
DH13 posted:Henry posted:There is more than enough talent to be mediocre.
That is the ringing endorsement of the year! Sounds like something Judge Smails would say about his hs golf team.
Noonan defense.
DH13 posted:Henry posted:There is more than enough talent to be mediocre.
That is the ringing endorsement of the year! Sounds like something Judge Smails would say about his hs golf team.
I don't think you're getting it.
The Heckler posted:...In my humble opinion I think that many teams have figured out Dom's defense.
Proven by all the screen plays the Bucs kept running yesterday.
Even Jennings commented they must've seen something on tape that 'told' them they could run that play against our defense.
I will add this is also yet ANOTHER example of other teams seeing deficiencies on our defense that our coaches are apparently oblivious to.
And the Bucs were absolutely correct...
Story said we were vulnerable because House and Randall wanted to man up on their top receivers and Dom let them, but it left them vulnerable to screens because apparently our Front 7 are clueless to the obvious signs that a screen is developing (with a few exceptions yesterday where we did sniff it out).
Dom Capers isn't the only one not keeping up with the times:
The problem with Thompson isn’t that he’s a poor judge of talent, it’s that he has refused to accept that the NFL financial landscape has changed and that it is not as risky as it used to be to participate in free agency.
Salary-cap management has changed dramatically during the second half of the 10-year collective bargaining agreement signed in 2011. Thompson still is operating under the assumption that free agency can bankrupt you and compromise your ability to sign your very best players to second and third contracts.
Snip-
It was a solid way of doing business until the salary cap went up $17 million in 2006 and the risk of being stuck in cap purgatory due to one or two bad free agent decisions went away.
One even could excuse Thompson for being conservative early this decade when the cap went up only $3 million total from 2011 through 2013. But in ’14 it went from $123 million to $133 million. The next year it went up $10 million again. The next year, $12 million. And last year, $12 million again.
Estimates have the cap going up another $10 million this year to around $177 million.
The likelihood of being hamstrung due to a free-agent mistake or two is minimal. Only the teams who have taken the biggest risks face uncertainty with their salary cap; the rest can eat a bad contract and not even spit out a seed.
“This is not like it was when the cap was going up 2, 3, 4 million a year and people were always up against it,” said an agent who has signed numerous big-money, free-agent contracts in recent years and will negotiate some others this offseason. “It steadily moves up $10 million a year now.
“You can afford to make a mistake now.”
Teams are much shrewder now also. They structure free-agent contracts so that if the player bombs, they’re out from under the cap obligation in three or four years.
I recommend going back to page one and rereading this thread.....some good takes.
How much cash do the Packers have available each year?
Compare that to Jones, Snyder, Allen, Kraft...
Actions have consequences, but having billions to work with allows you to take more risks, even with everyone working inside the cap. I don't believe the Packers can "afford to make a mistake".
Thompson is all about value. Always has been.
To coin a phrase that's all the rage recently....
That doesn't change.
The Pack did sign some FA's this past off-season. I'm fairly certain we'll see the Pack sign more in the future.
Hungry5 posted:How much cash do the Packers have available each year?
Not as much as we might have thought:
The team's reserve fund took another market hit last year, falling to $275 million from $280 million in 2014-15 and $284 million the year before that.
Brainwashed Boris posted:Thompson is all about value. Always has been.
To coin a phrase that's all the rage recently....
That doesn't change.
The Pack did sign some FA's this past off-season. I'm fairly certain we'll see the Pack sign more in the future.
We only sign FA's when they are cut so we get that additional pick at the end of the 6th round. Everyone knows it's better to get a cost controlled Christian Ringo or Demetri Goodson for 4 years than it is to fill that gaping hole with a veteran who costs more but can actually play football.
...and before you tell me how these comp picks have actually turned out so well, please watch the Vikings game again. We are clearly out classed when #12 is not on the field. This is after years of stockpiling comp picks, AKA, chicks in the barn
According to a source with access to NFL Players Association salary-cap data, the Packers have 39 players under contract for 2018 at a cost of $145 million. They will carry over $10 million in leftover cap space from 2017 and thus will have an adjusted cap number of around $187 million.
It means that they’ll go into the offseason with about $42 million in salary-cap room.
Good & healthy again!
If we win...YAY!....If we lose...Awww....
But at least the cap is healthy
Plenty to re-sign their own mediocre miscast system players...
The system isn’t broken. The coaching is broken. Which is a byproduct of the system.
Get some serious coaching involved. Innovation. Leadership. Mike has to hire people that are legitimate threats to take his job the **** away from him. Then prevent that from happening by winning. Repeatedly.
This is basic business 101 stuff. You can hire all the best college students and poach talent from the competition. If you don’t have a plan and direction from senior management you’re completely ****ed.
Today things are completely ****ed if you take away the guy in operations that’s carrying everything while his boss is coasting to retirement and the Logistics Manager should have retired years ago.
And Murphy is as worthless as tits on a teddy bear. That guy needs to get the mother **** out of town. This **** isn’t about Brett Favre night or sled hills or stadium tours.
The smallest football market is about football. And that freckle faced **** needs to stop coatailing off hard work by football people.
Sounds like Chili has had enough of the status quo BS going on at 1265 Lombardi Avenue. Yea, I'm there too.
TimesFour: Ask and you shall receive.
I just want Mike to pull in some thinkers. Innovators. Achievers. Not a collection of check cashers that fight over a spot on the sofa. I like Mike. He’s a football guy. Just gather some peeps.
But **** Murphy. Give me someone that inserts themselves into football decisions instead of the catering menu for family night.
BrainDed posted:Brainwashed Boris posted:Thompson is all about value. Always has been.
To coin a phrase that's all the rage recently....
That doesn't change.
The Pack did sign some FA's this past off-season. I'm fairly certain we'll see the Pack sign more in the future.
We only sign FA's when they are cut so we get that additional pick at the end of the 6th round. Everyone knows it's better to get a cost controlled Christian Ringo or Demetri Goodson for 4 years than it is to fill that gaping hole with a veteran who costs more but can actually play football.
...and before you tell me how these comp picks have actually turned out so well, please watch the Vikings game again. We are clearly out classed when #12 is not on the field. This is after years of stockpiling comp picks, AKA, chicks in the barn
Not only are most of the free agents signings of the released variety, but there is a good chance the only reason Thompson signed Bennett this off-season is because the team lost so many free agents that the signing wasn't going to affect the compensatory pick results.
Silverstein is right on the money. Only other thing I would question is if Thompson's unwillingness to be active in free agency might be tied in to his reluctance to get rid of under-performing, overpaid veterans. For example, it would be a real shame if the Packers were uninterested in A.J. Bouye partially because of future cap numbers for players like Matthews and Cobb. I already outlined in the Pro Bowl thread how A.J. Bouye got huge money from Jacksonville but that contract seems like it would have been a pretty easy fit for the Packers.
As far as problems with the salary cap around the league, despite the Packers looking to be in great shape there are 12 other teams with more 2018 cap room than Green Bay. Nearly 70% of the league figures to have more than 20 million in cap space heading into the off-season. Only 3 teams have less than 10 million dollars in 2018 cap space available. The team with the worst cap number (approximately 6.5 million over the cap) would go to being over 10 million under the cap after making just one move (cutting Alex Smith, and they already drafted their QB of the future last year). The NFL salary cap doesn't appear to be the big old boogie man anymore.
Dougherty: Timing right for Packers to part ways with Ted Thompson
If you're advocating for a new GM you might as well just blow the whole thing up for a clean start.
In Thompson’s 13 seasons, the Packers have the fourth-best winning percentage in the NFL (.606). Explain it away as you will, but those are facts.
It's funny because while TT hasn't been perfect in his recent drafts, I don't think the selections are that bad.
Not to mention the first 3 rounds have been dedicated to defense
The biggest problem I see is the "develop" portion of draft & develop.
Basically it looks to me like the coaches have been living off past glory (Super Bowl XLV) & whatever Rodgers gives them every year.
I can't disagree with Dougherty, however. If there was ever a time to "blow it up" now is the time.
Agreed. Status quo needs to get shaken up. GB has several in-house candidates that deserve a shot at GM. I'm ok with MM hitting the bricks as well. Hank mentioned Gruden the other day. I still find that interesting.