Julio has been awesome for them, but they sacrificed adding necessary pieces to that defense to get him. The John Abraham window is closing and they don't have a capable replacement and they don't have a playmaker at Safety.
If they call that holding/PI and the Dirty Birds score, does the opinion change? The sacrifice was a good idea?
quote:Originally posted by chickenboy:
If they call that holding/PI and the Dirty Birds score, does the opinion change? The sacrifice was a good idea?
Or even if Ryan doesn't fumble the perfect snap in the shotgun formation.
Jones has been outstanding for them and definitely a piece of their puzzle, but I'd be more worried about a defensive backfield that let Davis get wide, wide open several times to extend drives and make huge gains before any Falcon defender got a sniff of him. They deserved to lose on that alone the same way we couldn't figure out a way to corral CK.
It's pretty hard to criticize the trade now. Jones is terrific and the Falcons would be playing next week if their QB just made another play or two.
They still have Matt "Bledsoe" who really isn't that good. Makes too many mistakes for a QB with his experience.
one squeek by playoff win in two years....yeah brilliant move
You're knocking the trade due to the above?quote:Originally posted by Iowacheese:
one squeek by playoff win in two years....yeah brilliant move
At least the team they should have beaten didn't bludgeon them like they did the Packers - sheesh.
quote:Originally posted by heyward:
It's pretty hard to criticize the trade now. Jones is terrific and the Falcons would be playing next week if their QB just made another play or two.
No, it's not hard to criticize. Im taking nothing away from Jones thus far as a WR. But when your secondary is so porous that Zach Miller and Vernon Davis can run at will and you have next to no pass rush, that's the other piece of the story here. Yes Jones is a good WR. But in giving up all those picks they left serious holes in their defense that if not there, Matty Slushes mistakes could have been absorbed.
They blew 17 and 20 + points leads nearly losing to Seattle and did so AT HOME. That wasn't all Matt Ryan. That's a defense that can't hold huge leads.
Bad trade when they made it and nothing's changed.
Exactly. I don't see a ****ing Superbowl trophy. One playoff win? That's getting them over the top?
Enjoy the rest of the talent dropping off.
Enjoy the rest of the talent dropping off.
Just to clarify, the Packers trading a 2nd and two 3rds to move up and get C3TO is a great move because they won it all in 2010 with defensive playoff debacles the other three seasons and the Julio is a bad one because they have one playoff win since.
Is this a black and white question?
Is this a black and white question?
1) Shut up
2) Who ever brought Matthews into the argument?
3) **** you
4) Yes, Superbowl trophy dumbass. Who has one, who doesn't?
5) Did Matthews pick scrap a bunch of first rounders?
Do you see a trophy for Atlanta? The express statement of drafting Jones was to "get over the top". Didn't happen. Again, go **** yourself with your ridiculously lame strawman argument.
And here's a preemptive "quit your ****ing whining" for any other hothouse flowers who don't like my post.
2) Who ever brought Matthews into the argument?
3) **** you
4) Yes, Superbowl trophy dumbass. Who has one, who doesn't?
5) Did Matthews pick scrap a bunch of first rounders?
Do you see a trophy for Atlanta? The express statement of drafting Jones was to "get over the top". Didn't happen. Again, go **** yourself with your ridiculously lame strawman argument.
And here's a preemptive "quit your ****ing whining" for any other hothouse flowers who don't like my post.
27th, 59th, and 124th picks from the 2011 draft, and their first and fourth round picks from the 2012 draft. for Jones
5 total and two firsts in the Jones deal. 3 total for C3TO. Obviously much bigger of a bounty for JJ but he was also rated quite a but higher than Matthews overall. Moving into the top 10 will obviously cost more than trading up to 26.
Both strategies are the same. So playoff success is the only way to determine if the move was smart or not?
5 total and two firsts in the Jones deal. 3 total for C3TO. Obviously much bigger of a bounty for JJ but he was also rated quite a but higher than Matthews overall. Moving into the top 10 will obviously cost more than trading up to 26.
Both strategies are the same. So playoff success is the only way to determine if the move was smart or not?
can't wipe the drool off everyones face.
Juli was brought in as the missing link.
One squeek by playoff W in two years confirms what the move was at the time and what it is now. A bed wetting flop by a fantasy GM.
Juli was brought in as the missing link.
One squeek by playoff W in two years confirms what the move was at the time and what it is now. A bed wetting flop by a fantasy GM.
quote:Originally posted by chickenboy:
Just to clarify, the Packers trading a 2nd and two 3rds to move up and get C3TO is a great move because they won it all in 2010 with defensive playoff debacles the other three seasons and the Julio is a bad one because they have one playoff win since.
Is this a black and white question?
I see your pointHuge difference. Trading way up in the draft is only acceptable for a franchise QB and franchise pass rusher, IMO. Great QB play and a great pass such is what leads to a Super Bowl title, not great WR play.
If they had traded up for JJ Watt, I would have agreed with the trade. But not for a WR.
Also, the fact that the trade worked out as good as it possibly could have for Atlanta and they still couldn't win a Super Bowl tells me that it was the wrong trade. If things go perfectly to plan and you still don't achieve your objective, it was a bad plan.
And why don't you leaving Moderating to oh say..The Mod's. Your playing Forum cop is definitely not needed nor wanted.
Great receivers can be found all over the draft. Look at the Packers and Giants receiving corps. Or Marques Colston. Or Wes Welker. It's foolish to give up a boatload of picks for 1.
quote:Originally posted by chickenboy:
27th, 59th, and 124th picks from the 2011 draft, and their first and fourth round picks from the 2012 draft. for Jones
5 total and two firsts in the Jones deal. 3 total for C3TO. Obviously much bigger of a bounty for JJ but he was also rated quite a but higher than Matthews overall. Moving into the top 10 will obviously cost more than trading up to 26.
Both strategies are the same. So playoff success is the only way to determine if the move was smart or not?
What's the goal genius? To win the Superbowl.
Everyone believes it's great "if only" Ryan or someone else didn't suck. Well guess the **** what, that means the GM doesn't know his talent and signing 30 Julio Jones isn't going to do dick for you.
Would everyone here say White and Jones are a better tandem than say Jennings/Nelson? Of course you would but yet the Packers won a Superbowl with that talent.
So you have two SOOPERSTAR WRs and a QB that can't close the deal. Let's talk about Matthews. What did he add to the Superbowl team? A guy in the trenches that makes his own plays/opportunities and still does to this day.
You can do the proverbial Angels dancing on a pinhead all damn day long but there is only one answer to this question. DID YOU WIN THE SUPERBOWL?
black and mother ****in' white, especially when you put out a presser saying the pick will get you over the top.
I find x4 a real relaxing place to hang out. Why? Well what if I told you I have everybody on ignore so only my posts show up on the forum? 
quote:Originally posted by chickenboy:
Just to clarify, the Packers trading a 2nd and two 3rds to move up and get C3TO is a great move because they won it all in 2010 with defensive playoff debacles the other three seasons and the Julio is a bad one because they have one playoff win since.
Is this a black and white question?
Well someone cares obviously. OK, I will note in my diary today that the Pack won a Bowl because of trading up for C3TO and the Birds haven't 'cause of trading up for JJ.
"black and mother ****in' white..."
"black and mother ****in' white..."
Note this in your diary. All of what you just posted is your fantasy and never in the discussion in the first place.
But you keep up with the dickslap reasoning that anyone actually said the Packers Superbowl was all because of Matthews or what was traded to get him.
Take your lazy, self serving reasoning elsewhere.
But you keep up with the dickslap reasoning that anyone actually said the Packers Superbowl was all because of Matthews or what was traded to get him.
Take your lazy, self serving reasoning elsewhere.
Take 4 playoff wins and a Superbowl out of the equation for a second but is Julio Jones as impactful as Matthews? I don't think he is. He is very good receiver but CMIII is a top 5 pass rusher. Heck, not sure that Jones is better than Roddy White on his own team.
The fatal flaw in this whole comparison is what both teams gave up to get each player. ATL gave up a crapload of picks and it comes at the expense of using those picks to improve their D.
The fatal flaw in this whole comparison is what both teams gave up to get each player. ATL gave up a crapload of picks and it comes at the expense of using those picks to improve their D.
quote:Originally posted by chickenboy:
Just to clarify, the Packers trading a 2nd and two 3rds to move up and get C3TO is a great move because they won it all in 2010 with defensive playoff debacles the other three seasons and the Julio is a bad one because they have one playoff win since.
Is this a black and white question?
It was 3 for 2, not 3 for Matthews.
Packers get...
First-round pick (26th overall) --- OLB Clay Matthews
Fifth-round pick (162nd overall) --- OT Jamon Meredith
Patriots get...
Second-round pick (41st overall) --- CB Darius Butler
Third-round pick (73rd overall) -- CB Derek Cox
Third-round pick (83rd overall; pick Packers originally obtained for Brett Favre) -- WR Brandon Tate
VERSUS 5 for 1.
In exchange for getting the sixth pick, Atlanta gave the Browns five -- five! -- draft picks: their 1st- (27th overall), second- (59th) and fourth-round (124th) picks this year and their first- and fourth-round picks in 2012.
cripes chik-filet-boy ...
"if you do not know who the sucker is at the poker table ..."
"if you do not know who the sucker is at the poker table ..."
quote:Originally posted by GreenBayLA:
I find x4 a real relaxing place to hang out. Why? Well what if I told you I have everybody on ignore so only my posts show up on the forum?
What did you say?
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
1) Shut up
2) Who ever brought Matthews into the argument?
3) **** you
4) Yes, Superbowl trophy dumbass. Who has one, who doesn't?
5) Did Matthews pick scrap a bunch of first rounders?
Do you see a trophy for Atlanta? The express statement of drafting Jones was to "get over the top". Didn't happen. Again, go **** yourself with your ridiculously lame strawman argument.
And here's a preemptive "quit your ****ing whining" for any other hothouse flowers who don't like my post.
I wonder what Tit thinks of this Subsetting post?
But when merits are calculated for the value of a trade, why does Super Bowl Championships have to be the only metric? I don't think that's the case. By that logic, the only merit of any move is Super Bowl Championships. That means that 99% of deals/draft picks/FA signings pretty much equal failure. I don't think that's fair or logical.
Packers fans of all fans over the last 2 years that a lot of things have to happen to be a Champion. A lot of factors have to go your way, most of which are not in your control. So one draft day trade and selection to me equate to the reason why or why not a Championship is won, considering all the factors involved.
2 years after the trade, they have one of the premier WRs in the game. Yeah, they gave up a lot of depth and a lot of value for the right to get him- but when Roddy White is losing a step, they'll still have a premier WR for their franchise QB to throw to, and that is important. And I would remind you guys that the consensus of every draft evaluation is 3 years, right? 2 years in, Jones is already a star. Perhaps next year ATL wins it all. And I would not say that the Jones trade was the reason they won it all the same as I am saying that it isn't the reason they haven't won it now.
I simply don't think one is a direct result of the others, and shouldn't be measured that way.
Packers fans of all fans over the last 2 years that a lot of things have to happen to be a Champion. A lot of factors have to go your way, most of which are not in your control. So one draft day trade and selection to me equate to the reason why or why not a Championship is won, considering all the factors involved.
2 years after the trade, they have one of the premier WRs in the game. Yeah, they gave up a lot of depth and a lot of value for the right to get him- but when Roddy White is losing a step, they'll still have a premier WR for their franchise QB to throw to, and that is important. And I would remind you guys that the consensus of every draft evaluation is 3 years, right? 2 years in, Jones is already a star. Perhaps next year ATL wins it all. And I would not say that the Jones trade was the reason they won it all the same as I am saying that it isn't the reason they haven't won it now.
I simply don't think one is a direct result of the others, and shouldn't be measured that way.
quote:Originally posted by Music City:
But when merits are calculated for the value of a trade, why does Super Bowl Championships have to be the only metric?
When the express intent of the trade/pick is to get you to a SuperBowl that is the only metric.
I know, it's baffling logic.
Feel free to pull your imaginary intellectual pud.
Are we even sure Julio will be a Falcon in 2015?
Let's take this to another level.
What can we all agree on? Julio Jones is playing some great football. Goes without saying.
Why did the Falcons draft Julio Jones?
- To get them to the SuperBowl. Statement from the team.
When did this draft decision occur?
- After the Packers torched their defense
Does Julio Jones throw the ball to himself?
- No.
Could those picks have been used to bolster their defense in years to come?
- Yes
Has it been essential for SuperBowl teams in the past to have two SOOPERSTAR WR
- No
How many high picks did the Falcons piss away?
- A truckload
Does Julio Jones play defense?
- No
Will Julio Jones bend the space/time continium and stop the defense from aging?
- No
As far as NFL business goes, is it better to have more or less picks?
- More
If you were a GM and your team got freakin' torched on defense what side of the ball would you attempt to shore up? This one is tricky, two choices here.
- Offense
- Defense (Peria Jerry **ASTRONOMICALLY GOOD***)
Choose wisely.
What can we all agree on? Julio Jones is playing some great football. Goes without saying.
Why did the Falcons draft Julio Jones?
- To get them to the SuperBowl. Statement from the team.
When did this draft decision occur?
- After the Packers torched their defense
Does Julio Jones throw the ball to himself?
- No.
Could those picks have been used to bolster their defense in years to come?
- Yes
Has it been essential for SuperBowl teams in the past to have two SOOPERSTAR WR
- No
How many high picks did the Falcons piss away?
- A truckload
Does Julio Jones play defense?
- No
Will Julio Jones bend the space/time continium and stop the defense from aging?
- No
As far as NFL business goes, is it better to have more or less picks?
- More
If you were a GM and your team got freakin' torched on defense what side of the ball would you attempt to shore up? This one is tricky, two choices here.
- Offense
- Defense (Peria Jerry **ASTRONOMICALLY GOOD***)
Choose wisely.
It's kind of tricky. At the time it looked like defense as we know it was done and the only way you were going to get to the Superbowl was to score massive amounts of points or have a crazy pass rush that can overwhelm the other teams offense.quote:If you were a GM and your team got freakin' torched on defense what side of the ball would you attempt to shore up? This one is tricky, two choices here.
- Offense
- Defense
Finding the pass rushers is a monumental task let alone trying to do it with the later picks in every round of the draft. Atlanta was looking at trying to keep up with the dynamic offenses of the Saints and the Packers. ATL played ball control offense at the time. They could have spent all those picks on defense and still choked because they couldn't keep up.
Part of me wants to agree that giving up that many picks is always a bad idea. By the same token half the draft picks turn out mediocre and there's so many injuries that maybe you lose half those guys anyway and you're better off rolling the dice and hoping you have the elite guy that stays healthy.
They are fortunate Julio turned out to be as good a player as he is. Credit to them for having so much confidence in their assessment of him.
quote:Yeah, they gave up a lot of depth and a lot of value for the right to get him- but when Roddy White is losing a step, they'll still have a premier WR for their franchise QB to throw to, and that is important.
1351 yards receiving 92 catches and 7 TDs is losing a step? Roddy White has averaged more than 100 catches over the last 3 years.
Only 8 guys had more yards than him and 10 receivers had more catches than Roddy White this year.
Jones is developing into a decent receiver but I think people forget how many really good WRs there are in the NFL. A number of them you didn't have to trade away a boatload of picks to get them either.