They still haven't fired Capers yet, have they?
As many have mentioned - who would replace him? Mike Vrabel was my choice but he has been promoted to DC on a team with proven talent.
Get any of the posters here drunk on BK's Riunite stash, and they wouldn't do a worse job than Capers.
It'd be a hell of a lot cheaper, too.
Shields was our speed on the back end of the defense. He came into GB raw and struggled with some coverage's. Yet his make up speed was enough to make him our best CB. He is gone. I have not read about the timed speed of the undrafted unknowns we had playing because of injuries. But without Shields we do not have speed at CB.
Keep going back to energy or lack thereof in gb defense.
Greene masked it for the time he was with the Packers but since he left the defensive team doesn't seem the same.
Fedya posted:They still haven't fired Capers yet, have they?
Don't hold your breath.
PackerPatrick posted:Shields was our speed on the back end of the defense. He came into GB raw and struggled with some coverage's. Yet his make up speed was enough to make him our best CB. He is gone. I have not read about the timed speed of the undrafted unknowns we had playing because of injuries. But without Shields we do not have speed at CB.
Gunther 4.69 40 at the combine
Shields 4.26 40 at his combine
Expecting Gunther to cover Julio Jones like Shields would have was crazy.
At 6' 2" 201 Gunter is ok for man coverage's close to LOS with the bigger receivers. His size and 40 are almost LB stats. A good tool to have as 3rd or 4th CB. And that's it.
We play the style of defense that we play because we don't have speed. I would love to see what Capers could do with some speedy players on defense.
So, there are some really smart guys/girls here and I was wondering what makes the Patriots Defense above average/good enough to have won and beat and offense that just absolutely destroyed ours.
New England Preferred DLine: Long, Branch, Brown and Sheard.
New England Preferred LBs: Ninkovich, Hightower, Van Noy
New England Preferred DBs: Butler, McCourtney, Chung, Ryan
That is the Number Ones listed on their depth chart. Not sure who Brown and Sheard are but is this really all that more talented than Daniels, Jones, Perry, Peppers, Matthews, Ryan, Martinez, Burnett, Dix, Rollins and Randall? I get that injuries really took a toll and this preferred group never really got to play a lot of snaps together all year. Players? Health? Coaching? What gives?
Coaching that puts guys in places where they can succeed, a scheme that isn't too complicated so guys can play fast and hard, and coaches who aren't afraid to kick butt. None of which I think we have.
PackerBackerDPM posted:New England Preferred DLine: Long, Branch, Brown and Sheard.
New England Preferred LBs: Ninkovich, Hightower, Van Noy
New England Preferred DBs: Butler, McCourtney, Chung, Ryan
That is the Number Ones listed on their depth chart. Not sure who Brown and Sheard are but is this really all that more talented than Daniels, Jones, Perry, Peppers, Matthews, Ryan, Martinez, Burnett, Dix, Rollins and Randall? I get that injuries really took a toll and this preferred group never really got to play a lot of snaps together all year. Players? Health? Coaching? What gives?
Long: 9 year vet
Branch: 10 year vet
Brown: 2 year vet
Sheard: 6 year vet
Ninkovich: 12 year vet
Hightower: 5 year vet
Kyle Van Noy: 4 year vet
Butler: 3 year vet
McCourty: 7 year vet
Ryan: 4 year vet
Chung: 8 year vet
Average Experience: 6 years with only 2 guys less than 4 years of experience
Average Experience for Packers starters (per Packers.com): 4 years with 6/11 players having 3 or fewer years of experience.
The Patriots D has better, more experienced players who are assignment sure. No there is no superstar, but they are good at every spot. Interesting stat also for the speed lovers, the average 40 time of the Patriots starting 11 is 4.69...the average 40 time for the Packers starting 11? 4.71. Maybe speed isn't everything.
So being one of the youngest teams just about every year may not be a good thing?
I don't think it's bad to be a young team overall, but that veteran savvy at certain positions makes things easier. You can't have whole position groups made only of young players, like GB had no one with experience beyond 2 years at CB. No one with more than 2 years experience at ILB. Our good young players make plays at times, but none of them are assignment sure on such a regular basis like the Patriots D. Their guys had a few instances vs. the Falcons where they blew their assignment, the Packers D had a few instances vs. the Falcons where they actually made plays. That's the important difference.
You may be using Malcom Butler's reported pro day time of 4.62? Belicheck (after watching him on video), suspected this was incorrect, had him in for a workout where he was timed at 4.40 (source was Belichick interview on Coach K's radio show). So NE's top 3 CBs are 4.40, 4.45, & 4.56 Compare that to Gunter at 4.69, Rollins at 4.57, & Randall not playing anywhere near as fast as his 4.46, & you have quite a speed disparity at that position.
To go along with GD's post on the NEP vets/experience... Young guys will free-lance/fall back on what they know. If the Packers D is healthy this fall/early 2018, they have some talent. Still need a #1 CB. Whether that is Randall stepping up, Shields returning, a Rd1 pick, or FA remains the question. Also need to reload at OLB.
I think they have the players at S and DL, but won't be surprised if Thompson adds another athletic big guy. They just don't grow on trees or fall into laps.
Yeah of course I use the only official time available. I'm sure he is faster, but we have no idea the conditions of that workout to say for sure it's right. I'm sure lots of players time better in private workouts than at in front of a crowd at the combine or at a pro day. He worked out at the Bama pro day, which is generally a little faster track than the combine. It's not like he worked out at West Alabama, he didn't run a 4.62 for scouts at some rinky dink pro day.
Make up speed is one form of speed we need from CB's. Shields had it. But another form of speed I saw from last night was what I call "quicks". I saw ankle busting WR routes from NE. I thought I saw players from both teams (WR's and CB's) slipping as they made or responded to very quick cuts. This was effective against tight man coverage's. One would think that players with Basketball and Baseball backgrounds could do that. R&R had that background. Also, Ted is supposed to value 3 cone drill results when evaluating draft prospects. Therefore I was somewhat surprised that our CB's would rely on Zone coverage's with a big cushion. Was that Dom's idea? Or was there another reason? Was injuries to partially be blamed?
For example, the biggest change I saw from Adams this year was the moves he would make at the LOS to get a better release and beat tight Man coverage. Perhaps becoming healthy helped him with getting some separation. And perhaps injuries were more of a hindrance to our CB play than simply their timed speed in the 40. I also think that experience in coverage can help DB's stay closer to their assigned WR and limit uncontested catches.
Let's hope that with Randall it was injuries & not his head. He didn't play anywhere close to his rookie year and / or his physical abilities this year.
If I am not mistaken Randall is supposed to be the vocal one in the CB room. So outwardly he did not sulk. Who knows what was going through his head? But talk is cheap. Anyway, we have a long offseason ahead of us to figure things out. My hope is that a lot of time is spent with these youngsters doing just that.
The defensive backfield was a hodge-podge most of last year.
Rollins: Zone or slot.
Randall: Zone, slot or off-man
Gunter: Press man
Hyde: Zone
Hawkins: off-man
Randall was definitely "off-man." 
Shields was just zoned out.
I looked again at one of our UDFA's. I saw speed at CB and his name is...Dorleant. as low as 4.3 in the 40!
Maybe just maybe we already have a fast CB.
The best corner I've ever watched. Actually watched is Mike Haynes. That guy could cover anyone. And tackle. But above all else he was a blanket on coverage. Not fast. But his football IQ was like Charles Woodson. Charles probably ran a 4.5 40 on his best day. Speed is great. But you have to know how to play football.
One knock on Dorleant is that he had not got that tackling thing down cold. Yet he played man well and seemed teachable.
Shields was raw on those points but turned out ok. And Dorleant actually played CB at UNI
Why did Dom, Whitt, and Ted think $5 million per for Hayward wasn't worth the investment? Maybe Casey told them he wanted out of Green Bay. On the surface it looks like everyone involved failed.
I'd be interested in Kirkpatrick.
Speaking of speed Aarons speed in the 40 has apparently been misreported.
http://profootballtalk.nbcspor...d-dash-as-fake-news/
It is shameful I clicked that link.
I give AR12 2 free nut kicks to Florio for that article. Good ****ing lord that was a piece of ****
"When you look at the numbers, the consistency, you have to think second round. And again this is a punter..... ok? But he's a special talent. Great form. Great attitude....ok? IQ is off the chart. All Upside! When you talk about a guy that can kick another guy out of his own high tops while standing in sand you can't rule out first round, as crazy as that sounds"
Mel Kiper Jr.
Did Kiper really put that on paper? Too much huffin' of the VO5.
You think that cape flies in a locker room?
With that nut kick, you going to tell him he can't wear it?
Best NFL combine 40 among #Packers CBs is Damarious Randall's 4.46.
— Ryan Wood (@ByRyanWood) March 7, 2017
Twelve CBs ran faster than that today in Indy. Twelve. That's a dozen.
That doesn't really matter so much, does it.
If Randall ran a 4.36, you think he season turns out dramatically different?
Look how many speedy wide receivers we awesome at going fast and not awesome at football.
Speed is great in football players, but you gots2b a football player first
Take a look at the list of CB names that ran sub 4.46 40's the last 4 years. Vast majority of that list is "who the eff is that?"
Sidney Jones ran a 4.47 today. Guy knows how to play corner though.
All in all kind of a mixed bag today other than Lattimore who was going to be long gone anyways.
Guys that I think helped themselves a little bit. Cordrea Tankersley, Gareon Conley, and Chipotle Awoozy (or something...) Teez Tabor should have just rolled around midfield with a hazmat suit on today.
