I see Breno! on the offesnive list.
I'm convinced the D won't have a repeat performance like last week. I'm still pissed it happened in the first place and wasted a 34 point performance by the the offense.
quote:Originally posted by 18c3v:
Guess who was the lowest rated defensive player in the entire league in week 17?
PFF had a bad day
Clearly PFF is part of the conspiracy against Tramon.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Tramon had an amazingly crappy game, but it's one game. You make it sound like he's been sandbagging all season. "Liability"? Give it a ****ing rest. Get Woodson in the game and watch run support step up.
No kidding. What's the solution that the whiners have? Bench Williams? Bench your Pro Bowl veteran CB the first game of the playoffs because he's afraid to tackle? That just described 90% of the CBs in the NFL. Peterson is hard to bring down if you're a 250 lb. LB, and you think your 190 lb. CB shouldn't be afraid to man up with him and go for the stick? Get real. Williams job is to secure the outside so the ILBs and Safetys can come clean up, if you want to blame someone then blame those guys because those runs should never have gotten to the point where Williams has a 1 on 1 with Peterson.
Fair enough. I blame the safeties and inside linebackers for putting Tramon in a position to run away from contact and play like a pussy.
I'm actually a bit surprised anybody would speak out in favor of his performance last week. It was pathetic.
That said, Tramon has a history of being a very good football player and I expect that to continue. One thing is for sure, Minny is going to line up and run AP upwards of 30 times on Saturday and a majority of those runs will be heading towards #38. He needs to put his big boy pants on.
I'm actually a bit surprised anybody would speak out in favor of his performance last week. It was pathetic.
That said, Tramon has a history of being a very good football player and I expect that to continue. One thing is for sure, Minny is going to line up and run AP upwards of 30 times on Saturday and a majority of those runs will be heading towards #38. He needs to put his big boy pants on.
I'm not advocating putting Williams on the bench. But youre not stopping AP unless all 11 guys are committed to gap responsibility and putting a hat on him.
The 28 yard run on 2nd and 27 is a great example. Tramon was in position. As soon as he decides to back away from contact it's starts a domino effect. The next guy is in position to take away the cutback. When Tramon vacates his gap everyone who was in position is suddenly out of position to make a play.
Tramon doesn't have to bring AP down. But he has to hit him and wrap him up until support arrives.
The 28 yard run on 2nd and 27 is a great example. Tramon was in position. As soon as he decides to back away from contact it's starts a domino effect. The next guy is in position to take away the cutback. When Tramon vacates his gap everyone who was in position is suddenly out of position to make a play.
Tramon doesn't have to bring AP down. But he has to hit him and wrap him up until support arrives.
quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:
Fair enough. I blame the safeties and inside linebackers for putting Tramon in a position to run away from contact and play like a pussy.
I wrote about Tramon this week. I was actually more upset with his penalty than anything else:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/185393122.html
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/185393122.html
Green Bay Defensive
TACKLES MISC
TOT SOLO SACKS TFL PD QB HTS TD
M. Burnett 7 7 0 0 0 1 0
T. Williams 5 5 0 0 0 0 0
M. Jennings 5 5 0 0 0 0 0
S. Shields 5 4 0 0 0 0 0
B. Jones 5 3 0 0 0 0 0
A. Hawk 4 4 0 2 0 0 0
B. Raji 4 4 0 2 0 0 0
R. Pickett 4 3 0 0 1 0 0
C. Wilson 4 3 0 1 0 0 0
E. Walden 4 2 0 0 0 0 0
C. Matthews 3 3 1 1 0 1 0
J. McMillian 2 2 0 0 0 0 0
R. Taylor 2 1 0 0 0 0 0
J. Ross 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
C. Hayward 1 1 0 0 1 0 0
R. Francois 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
M. Newhouse 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
J. Lattimore 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
J. Worthy 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
J. Bush 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
M. Crosby 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Team 63 54 1 6 2 2 0
I watched the game, so this stat sheet is also helpful. Yes, Tramon played as poorly and tentatively as I have ever seen a DB play, but our DBs should NEVER be the top 4 tacklers (especially against a heavily run oriented Viking offense). Blame the rest of the D for letting AP run into the second level. The main weak points in this defense are the OLBers. AP (and backs in other games) seem to get around the edge too far too easily. That means our OLBs and CBs (on running plays) are not setting the edge properly, getting suckered in on play fakes or not shedding blockers to turn the play back inside.
Sure, every LB got buried during the game, but the DL has a large responsibility for clogging up the middle. Not sure why some constantly call out Hawk as a detriment? He is not stellar or flashy, but more of a boring-solid ILB (puts up decent numbers, but never among the elite LBers). In the game thread, someone called Hawk out for not making a tackle around the defense's R side. Hawk was inside on the L (opposite) side, but still made the play on the outside. Brought that up, but got crickets in response. What about the other LBers? Yes, Clay is disruptive in the pass game and is a superstar pass rusher, but three lousy tackles (one was a sack)? He is as much to blame on run downs as the rest of the LBers (Hawk did have 2 TFL). The entire D played poorly in the run game. Not one person to lay sole blame on (or even the dreaded Hawk/Zombo/Jones/etc. excuse where Matthews gets a pass), but the D as a whole. When you give up 444 total yards and see 37 rushing attempts, along with allowing Christian Freakin' Ponder to put up a 120.2 QB rating, it is a group failure.
The D as a whole needs to flow to the ball, wrap up and play like they want to abuse the Vikings. Otherwise, it'll be a long cold evening for the Packers.
TACKLES MISC
TOT SOLO SACKS TFL PD QB HTS TD
M. Burnett 7 7 0 0 0 1 0
T. Williams 5 5 0 0 0 0 0
M. Jennings 5 5 0 0 0 0 0
S. Shields 5 4 0 0 0 0 0
B. Jones 5 3 0 0 0 0 0
A. Hawk 4 4 0 2 0 0 0
B. Raji 4 4 0 2 0 0 0
R. Pickett 4 3 0 0 1 0 0
C. Wilson 4 3 0 1 0 0 0
E. Walden 4 2 0 0 0 0 0
C. Matthews 3 3 1 1 0 1 0
J. McMillian 2 2 0 0 0 0 0
R. Taylor 2 1 0 0 0 0 0
J. Ross 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
C. Hayward 1 1 0 0 1 0 0
R. Francois 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
M. Newhouse 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
J. Lattimore 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
J. Worthy 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
J. Bush 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
M. Crosby 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Team 63 54 1 6 2 2 0
I watched the game, so this stat sheet is also helpful. Yes, Tramon played as poorly and tentatively as I have ever seen a DB play, but our DBs should NEVER be the top 4 tacklers (especially against a heavily run oriented Viking offense). Blame the rest of the D for letting AP run into the second level. The main weak points in this defense are the OLBers. AP (and backs in other games) seem to get around the edge too far too easily. That means our OLBs and CBs (on running plays) are not setting the edge properly, getting suckered in on play fakes or not shedding blockers to turn the play back inside.
Sure, every LB got buried during the game, but the DL has a large responsibility for clogging up the middle. Not sure why some constantly call out Hawk as a detriment? He is not stellar or flashy, but more of a boring-solid ILB (puts up decent numbers, but never among the elite LBers). In the game thread, someone called Hawk out for not making a tackle around the defense's R side. Hawk was inside on the L (opposite) side, but still made the play on the outside. Brought that up, but got crickets in response. What about the other LBers? Yes, Clay is disruptive in the pass game and is a superstar pass rusher, but three lousy tackles (one was a sack)? He is as much to blame on run downs as the rest of the LBers (Hawk did have 2 TFL). The entire D played poorly in the run game. Not one person to lay sole blame on (or even the dreaded Hawk/Zombo/Jones/etc. excuse where Matthews gets a pass), but the D as a whole. When you give up 444 total yards and see 37 rushing attempts, along with allowing Christian Freakin' Ponder to put up a 120.2 QB rating, it is a group failure.
The D as a whole needs to flow to the ball, wrap up and play like they want to abuse the Vikings. Otherwise, it'll be a long cold evening for the Packers.
quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:
Fair enough. I blame the safeties and inside linebackers for putting Tramon in a position to run away from contact and play like a pussy.
I'm actually a bit surprised anybody would speak out in favor of his performance last week. It was pathetic.
No one is speaking positively of his performance. It's pretty unanimous that he pussed out. I don't understand why you're surprised by that though? He's a CB, they're not exactly a tough breed of football player. CBs that are willing to get in there and make contact are few and far between...even fewer ones who want to make contact with AP one on one. The reality is, whether it soothes your bruised cervix or not, is that it never should have come down to Tramon taking on AP 1 on 1. I don't care if it's Tramon or Darrell Revis or Charles Woodson, any defense where you're asking a CB to make a play on a big, powerful RB by himself is unacceptable. Hawk and Jones are supposed to be shedding OLinemen and making the play and the Safetys are supposed to clean up anything they miss.
the penalty and the pass to FB were big brain farts by him. you see a FB line up wide and you just back off and leave him? cover him like a WR and the throw probably doesn't come that way and/or you get an INT. I couldn't fathom what he was thinking there at all.
quote:Originally posted by Grave Digger:quote:Originally posted by Pakrz:
Fair enough. I blame the safeties and inside linebackers for putting Tramon in a position to run away from contact and play like a pussy.
I'm actually a bit surprised anybody would speak out in favor of his performance last week. It was pathetic.
No one is speaking positively of his performance. It's pretty unanimous that he pussed out. I don't understand why you're surprised by that though? He's a CB, they're not exactly a tough breed of football player. CBs that are willing to get in there and make contact are few and far between...even fewer ones who want to make contact with AP one on one. The reality is, whether it soothes your bruised cervix or not, is that it never should have come down to Tramon taking on AP 1 on 1. I don't care if it's Tramon or Darrell Revis or Charles Woodson, any defense where you're asking a CB to make a play on a big, powerful RB by himself is unacceptable. Hawk and Jones are supposed to be shedding OLinemen and making the play and the Safetys are supposed to clean up anything they miss.
....did you not watch the Bears, Seahawks, or 49er games vs. us this season? They all have corners who welcome contact. To say "CBs that are willing to get in there and make contact are few and far between'...is just not accurate.
And every position is filled with Pro bowlers at all levels with lollipops and rainbows. His skill set is great for coverage and not as great in other areas. He had a horrible, ****, disgraceful game. I would be stunned if he isn't shamed into playing at a different level this week. Get over it.
quote:Originally posted by FLPACKER:
....did you not watch the Bears, Seahawks, or 49er games vs. us this season? They all have corners who welcome contact. To say "CBs that are willing to get in there and make contact are few and far between'...is just not accurate.
You named 4 out of our 16 games this season, totaling 6 out of a possible 26 starting CB tandems on our schedule. Hardly the majority.
...and those were probably the best 3 defenses we faced this year...do you see a correlation?
they all have really good linebackers
The problem is, before the injury, Tramon was such a willing tackler. He got his money, got hurt and checked out. A real pity.
The Bears, Seahawks and 49ers. How did they do against Peterson?
Well, he gained 100 against the Bores in one game and 150 against them in another. The Seahawks? 180 and 10 YPC
He only ended up with around 90 yards against San Fran but that might be the best overall D in the NFC.
Well, he gained 100 against the Bores in one game and 150 against them in another. The Seahawks? 180 and 10 YPC
He only ended up with around 90 yards against San Fran but that might be the best overall D in the NFC.
Whitt says we're all full of sheite for the most part. I hope he's right.
http://espnwisconsin.com/commo...g&r=40&post_id=25561
http://espnwisconsin.com/commo...g&r=40&post_id=25561
quote:“I’m going to give you a long answer, and I usually don’t give long answers, OK?” he began. “But I want to forever get this taken care of so we can move forward. (Last) year, Tramon played very solid. Now, he had some glaringly bad plays. The New York screen looked really (bad). The Minnesota (game), there was a run that came out, which he was not wrong but it looked really bad on him. And the commentators (explained) it wrong. They put it on him. I’m sitting there watching them (explain) it wrong during the game, you know with our TV up there (in the coaches booth).
“So that’s what people hear, even though the commentators are wrong, that’s all they know because those people are supposed to be the experts. Now, did he play as good as he did in 2010? No. I’m going to take some of that for the fact that we asked those guys this year for as much as possible to get up and press, which he can press. (But) he gets the ball better when he’s off. He makes more impactful plays from playing off. Sam (Shields) makes more impactful plays being pressed. So (Williams) plays better (when he’s not pressing) because he can see the ball and go get (it).
“If you go back to 2010, most of his impact plays came from being off. This year, my whole mantra, and I told (defensive coordinator) Dom (Capers), I know we want to press because if you look at our completion percentage, they don’t complete a lot of balls on us. Now, we still gave up too many explosives but they don’t complete a lot of balls on us. We might give up a little more completions, but I’m going to allow them to do what they do, so you might see Tramon and Casey (Hayward) play off. But I have a feeling he’s going to make more of those splash plays .
“Other than (the fact that) he only had two interceptions, his play was not much different than 2010. But he didn’t have the splash plays where I believe he had six interceptions during the year and three more during the playoffs and that was a ‘Wow’ year. And, he had tougher assignments (last year). He matched every week against somebody where the previous year, well 2010, we matched him and ‘Wood.’ This year, Sam’s going to have to step up, Casey’s going to have to step up or (Davon) House is going to have to step up. And so that’s really what happened.
“I hear people saying, ‘Tramon can’t play.’ They’re wrong. They’re wrong. They’re taking a few glaringly bad plays and saying a man can’t play. Where, I’m going to tell you this: There’s few guys that I would take over him (in the NFL). I don’t know if there’s any that I would take over him because when he’s allowed to do what he does best, he’s pretty good, and that’s just what it is.
“I know some people are going to say, ‘He’s protecting his player.’ No, that’s just what it is because after the season I went back and watched every play, over 1,200 plays. The guy can play, and he played physical, too. Let me clear that up, too. You go back and watch the games. Now, did he miss the tackle on the fullback from Minnesota? Yeah, but he went up there and hit it. We’re going to miss some tackles. We’re not going to be 100 percent on backs. I’m not going to get into every single play, but he’s going to play fine this year. He’s not what I’m worried about.”
I agree with Whitt on blowing the few glaring bad plays out of proportion, but I'm not as high on Tramon as he seems to be. Cautiously optimistic though.
Listen to the "sound bites" from the second Minny game...their players on the sideline can be heard telling AP "#38 doesn't want any part of you", he was plain & simple running away from contact. I don't get where Whitt sees him being physical?
Whitt is right though, I'd still take Tramon over a lot of other CBs in this league. He's still a solid overall CB despite his aversion to taking on bruising RBs 1 on 1.
quote:
He matched every week against somebody where the previous year, well 2010, we matched him and ‘Wood.’ This year, Sam’s going to have to step up, Casey’s going to have to step up or (Davon) House is going to have to step up.
Yeah, he gave a long answer... and could have said just this and been done with it. Wood is gone and was no longer elite last year when healthy. This season it is time for the development to kick in.