Where will change come from?

There are a lot of little reasons for the offensive struggles, but I would argue two big ones - Adams and Richard Rodgers. These guys were the 2nd and 3rd round picks from last year. Adams may be the worst starting WR in the NFL and Richard Rodgers may be the slowest starting TE in the NFL. Richard Rodgers at least catches most balls that are near his body - what does Adams do well? He's slow for a WR, doesn't run good routes, has dropped a ton of passes, and whines for a penalty on several plays. 

 

The little things - like Aaron Rodgers missing some plays, poor snaps, fumbles, etc. all contribute, but when two guys that play almost every snap are playing this poorly, you can't expect an offense to be doing well. The margin for error is almost zero. 

TT just missed on those two picks. At some MM has to recognize this and try someone else. In the Lions and Bears losses, Adams was targeted 32 times! 32! Those plays resulted in 12 completions for 93 yards, 0 TDs, and an interception. That's a QB ranking of 32 for 32 of the 154 plays they've run. 1 of every 5 plays is going to a guy that's done virtually nothing. Enough. 

The change in offense will come from Montgomery and Quarles coming back soon.

 

Go on a roll in December.  Then, ya never know what could happen.  Defense has played well enough the past 3 games to win.  The offense has really sputtered.

 

Disagree with your non-sequitur.

The Pack certainly did come close to making the Super Bowl after the 2007 & 2014 seasons, but they did not.

 

The Pack also came very close to not making the playoffs in 2010 (thanks DeSean Jackson), but they did and then won the Super Bowl. 

 

At the end of the day CLOSE does not count and the record reflects a single Super Bowl appearance by Green Bay since 2005 even though they have had Hall of Famers at QB each of those seasons. 

It amazes me that everyone constantly brings up DeSeans 2010 return against NY while glossing over the fact NY could have beat GB the following week and completely failing to acknowledge the game that really made a difference. 

 

Detroit beating Tampa Bay in OT that same day. 

 

But whatever. Easier to follow the narrative. 

Whatever fits your narrative....

Their aversion to change is reflected by moves such as kicking an HOF QB, who could still play, to the curb for an unproven QB who sat on the bench for three years.

I suppose a population size of 1 is some kind of astonishing proof of a pattern for folks with a certain narrative.

 

Kind of like the opinion of 1. 

No, just one example what anybody would consider a major move.  Or, I suppose, you need chapter and verse of every coaching and personnel move over the years.

Nobody is saying "break the bank", but many of use would like to see him fill some gaping fukking holes with a decent player rather than some re-purposed OLB bust or placing all your eggs in a MD Jennings/Jeron McMillan basket.

 

IoW, Joe Thomas was a juicy pipe dream, but Vernon Davis should have been a no-brainer for what basically amounts to a warm bucket of spit.

Well said, Herschel.  

 

Slow clap!

DickRod will always be limited by his lack of athleticism and he was a reach in the third. Injuries have thrust Adams into a role that clearly he wasn't prepared for and he's playing poorly but it's premature to call him a miss.

The biggest difference between this year's team and last year's, in a word, is injury.

 

Of course, Nelson was a kick in the nuts. Cobb's shoulder was getting hit while down. Then when Adams and Monty sprained ankles, all of a sudden, what began as a fairly deep position was stretched to the breaking point. Abbrederis wasn't playing a lot, but nonetheless affects depth. I'm going to throw Quarless in here, too, because of the affect it has on both passing and rushing. Personnel used and plays called since likely compound this problem.

OL hasn't been immune, either. Although Barclay, Walker, and now Tretter have been fairly solid when they have had to play, Bulaga and Daktari have struggled playing through injury. I think there were great expectations for the OL performance this year, and that certainly hasn't happened. As a group, they may be closest to 'recovery', but we've got to get some production from one of the T positions, if not both.

 

We've been somewhat lucky on defense; most of the injuries on that side haven't been devastating, and we've mostly weathered the storm when they have occurred.

 

 

Patriots have lots of injuries too and they're undefeated...lets not forget about the 2010 injuries. Is Aaron Rodgers that injured to be throwing worm burners? And I'm sick and tired about hearing about Montgomery, he wasn't showing THAT much before he was injured. Is Cobb's and Adams' injuries still affecting them that much for them to run lazy routes and have the dropsies? Doubt it. At this point of the season every team is injured, injuries are more of an excuse than a reason at this point

slowmo

No, just one example what anybody would consider a major move.  Or, I suppose, you need chapter and verse of every coaching and personnel move over the years.

But, it's a poor example because of its compelling nature.  Had Rodgers been made to sit longer, there is a very real chance he would have bolted.  Favre's recent history included near chronic mistakes in big games that lost the chance for the ring.  He practically held the team hostage.  He already retired and unretired while management must have wondered, "How secure are we with this guy?"  While still playing at a high level, he sure was getting up there.  After three years of Rodger's being prepared, possibly the coaches saw that he had the goods.

 

You'd do just as well to assert TT does not have a "narrative" of largely drafting, developing, and keeping his own and avoiding the FA by saying "Woodson and Peppers."

Agreed and was just going to post the same thing. I don't think any poster on here has ever said 'break the bank.' Believe it or not, there is a middle ground here.

Amazes me how some Packer fans do not know that if the Eagles did not beat the Giants in week 14 of 2010 (thanks in part to DeSean Jackson's very late punt return) the Giants would have come into Lambeau Field at 10-4 to face the 8-6 Packers and thus a Packers victory in week 15 would still have left the Pack a full game behind the Giants.

 

Oh, and the Giants won the next in Washington and thus would have finished 11-5, meaning the Pack's week 15 victory over the Giants and week 16 victory over the Bears would have left the Green Bay Packers on the outside looking in at the playoffs in 2010.

 

Not a narrative, just the facts.

I'm not sure there is a middle ground on this - the quick fix NFL types never win - or win consistently.

People lamenting about Vernon Davis - have you watched the guy play the last year or so?  How is he an automatic upgrade?

Trading for Kendricks in Philly would have made much more sense.  He's a guy that could actually make a difference and fit a real need.

The Joe Thomas rumors are just that unless you are playing Madden in franchise mode.

Bottom line it's tough to win in the NFL and win year in and year out.  The Packers are in that discussion because of TT.   We'd all like for him to be more impulsive at times but that's not him.  

Maybe we're just too damn spoiled and greedy to know any better.  Detroit and Chicago just acted like they won the Super Bowl against us and maybe they should celebrate- GB has won like 80% of the match ups since TT took over.

Have you watched DikRod play?  Cant run, can't block but has decent hands.  Might as well suit up Chris Carter at age 45.

There is a team in the Northeast that begs to differ with you.

 

And there is a middle ground, giving up a mid-round pick or two to fill a need of desperate need. An Albert Haynesworth signing is far right and TT is far left.

 

I'll draw you a picture and email if needed.

You're right chickenboy. NE works its roster in every way imaginable. And, you can't argue with their success in doing so.

 

There are other aspects to their processes that are beneficial, both in personnel and in coaching. For instance, Brady runs the plays his OC gives him, to a T. Far more than Rodgers, who checks into any number of options at will, leaning heavily on the pass. That is my guess anyway. Seems he is checking out of run plays to pass far too often, and no one is holding him accountable.

Maybe you 2 should do us all a favor and move to the northeast.

Disagree.  Without reliving the whole sordid episode, the Packers were initally willing to let Favre come back (up until mini camp).  And Rodgers could have been made to stay because of the years left on his rookie contract, a franchise tag, etc.

 

As far as draft/develop, that's been going pretty well too in keeping the Packers competitive. There are only five players starting today from the 2010 Super Bowl team-Rodgers, Sitton, Bulaga, Raji, Matthews (or six if you include James Jones). At least one impact player who would be in his prime right now (Collins) and arguably another (Finley) were lost to career ending injuries.  

 

No doubt a franchise QB is tremendously helpful, but drafting well avoids the problem of overpaying for free agents, or salary cap problems by overpaying current players when extending their contracts, etc, (example, Saints)

"Listen up gentleman. I know we're 9-5 and they're 8-6. But it's over. It's over. DeSean saw to that. We could have had a two game lead instead of 1 against the team we're playing. So **** it. We tried. But it's time to play out the string and call it a year. Because our year ended last week"

 

Coach SteveLukes week 15 2010 pre game message to the Giants. 

Well the coaches have made adjustments like
- moving Heyward inside and playing Randall outside (took too long to make the move - that's on Whitt)
- running a lot more verticals because defenses were not respecting the deep passing game (now overdoing it)
- using pistol formation for Lacy to give him a head of steam

There's a lot more to be done obviously.  My couch GM recommendations would be to:
- use Kuhn or Rip in the backfield more often to keep the run game humming and use them as a dump off threat - they won't be worse than RichRod
- Increase Perillos snaps
- Stop splitting the TEs out wide. It's a complete joke.
- RTFB
- Janis - whatever gadgets you can to get him the ball bubble screens, end arounds, slant, crossers.  Why not the slot? His height advantage over nickel corners is huge and he has the size to be in the middle of the field.
- Give Ryan, Pennel, and Rollins (even when Hyde is back) more snaps
- keep Hyde as a 3rd safety only. His speed is a huge liability
- hate to say it but Peppers is a non factor - he gets doubled but even when singled he is not making plays. Reduce his snaps for the other OLBs
- Have Randall play more press coverage - he's got the speed
- dust off the old playbook and run more traditional west coast offense. Less empty backfield, Less 3 and 4 WR looks, heavy play action, more FB and RB looks

Hmm, Rodgers call his own plays and Brady doesn't.  Let's see what they have to say:

 

 

Brady :  

 

Gone are the West Coast play calls like "Flip right, double-X jet, 36 counter, naked waggle, X-7, X-quarter." Instead, thePatriots have six one-word calls like "Bama" at the ready for each game. The call details the team's formation, blocking scheme, routes, shifts, snap counts, alerts and audibles. It says if the play is a run or pass, and the direction of the run. Patriots quarterback Tom Brady has the ability to change plenty at the line of scrimmage.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/...lex-nohuddle-offense

 

Rodgers:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/w...-call-plays-pre-snap

 

Both react to what they see the defense is doing pre-snap.  If the coaches didn't want Rodgers changing to a pass play, they would only send in a run play call.

Good stuff, 50k. Your offense stuff is totally on point.

I've just read somewhere that Brady holds to the script a bit more, that's all. And, it is just my opinion that Rodgers seems to be checking out of great run opportunities to pass instead.

 

Why were we so pass heavy in bad weather the other night? Why are we losing all the games where Rodgers throws far more than we run?

Fire/Demote Tom Clements, hire Joe Philbin.

 

Fire Dom Capers, hire Les Miles.

 

Let Ted work his magic with the roster.

 

Fixed.

 

Super Bowls.

So New England is now the benchmark of greatness?   Is that with or without their cheating and shenanigans?

The Packers are built for long term success, but as we know, sometimes teams end up on the wrong side of a bad matchup or simply bad luck.   Losing Jordy has had a bigger impact than any of us could have imagined and they haven't responded very well.

I personally think it's more about preparation and gameplanning than it is talent.  There's still enough of the season to test that theory but the bottom line is they are running out of time.  If they don't make a push now they might not even make the playoffs much less advance in the playoffs. 

The next few weeks will show what this team is made of.

Capers makes approx 2 million,  Miles will, if he chooses get a NCAA HC job for over 4

Forget Les Miles

The person I want as DC is down in Madison.  Aranda is the next great defensive mind and he runs a 3-4 D to perfection.

Yes. Both.

Of course it is

Wouldn't Green Bay have had the tiebreaker on Philly in 2010 if they both finished 10-6 without winning the division?

Four Super Bowls in 15 years with the same HC/GM and QB.

 

Yes, they're the benchmark.

 

Hate Belichick all you want, but there's no denying he is the most creative and adaptable HC in all of football.

Cripes, they may be the 'benchmark' of greatness in all of professional America sports. Although I can see an argument for the Spurs and Dirty Birds.

 

Me also thinks 'ol Pop may have a few covert Belichick-ian tricks up his sleeve.

Right.  Comparing the Spurs to the Patriots.  That's rich, but predictable. 

Maybe Barry Bonds is the benchmark for greatness too in MLB.

LMAO

I'll deny the Patriots greatness all day long.

Until you or anyone else can prove that they earned any of those championships without bending the rules I don't think they deserve that type of credit.