Who would you pick?

9 - 13 of their last 22.

Finish off these last 7 with even a 4 - 3 record I'd not consider a Thompson cleaning of McCarthy and staff a panic move. And, with the way they've been playing they should only be favored in the CHI game.

it's too soon now, but in another 3 years or so I'd be real curious about Chryst in the NFL.  that guy seems to know what the hell he's doing and does it well.

The Heckler posted:

PackerJoe posted:

I'd stick with Thompson and McCarthy for at least one more year because the track record is there.  However, McCarthy has to do a far, far better job evaluating his coaching staff.  He obviously whiffed badly in this area last off-season (Richard Rodgers has certainly looked a ton better with that new TE coach, hasn't he!).  If his recommended fixes at year's end is to fire James Campen and Joe Whitt then I'll flip-flop and suggest that firing McCarthy would be a good idea.  Thompson should definitely be using free agency more to fill out depth in weak areas of the roster.  Hard to blame the running back mess on anyone but him.  It's not like Lacy and Starks were looking real good at the end of last season.

This is my hunch in that they will stick with TT and MM for one more year.  It just isn't the Packers style to panic and clean house like a Stalin purge. 

I will stand by my prediction that the first round of cleaning house will be to fire the coordinators and more than likely the entire defensive staff.  And then MM gets one more year (unless he quits) to turn it around and if not he then let go.  Now if they do fire MM and the entire staff I would like to see them go with a coach with a defensive background who coaches defenses with a nasty edge.  By the way I am surprised no one has said Les Miles yet.

As far as coaching background, it would be my preference that they don't hire a guy from college.  More often than not it never seems to work out.

I agree with you to a point, but this scenario presents some problems.  It would be hard to attract good assistants with the premise that the head coach could be in a lame duck year.  

I agree as well. Depending on how this season finishes I think we see a similar change up to what we saw after 2008. Certainly if they win out and win the SB they won't make changes, but short of the remaining games falling to either extreme I think McCarthy gets another shot to right the ship. The reason this team would be attractive to a good DC is that there is a lot of talent in place, so even if McCarthy is a lame duck then they could still put together strong defensive output and parlay that into another job. Also they have a franchise QB in place, which is attractive to a candidate looking to move up. 

Other than Whitt I'm fine if every assistant on the team is shown the door. 

Here's the problem. MM hasn't given much reason to think he's capable of rebuilding a solid group of assistants. Why Moss and Clements are still on his staff I'll never know. 

In 2008 Whitt was one of two defensive coaches retained by Mike after a crap season. One of the better defensive coaches GB has had over the past 9 years was Kevin Greene. Greene was brought to GB by Capers. 

GB simply has a substandard collection of assistant coaches right now. Too many players on defense couldn't explain what went wrong after the game yesterday. The defense is a complete collective mess. The offense isn't much better. 

So yeah, I'm ok if Mike stays. Provided he cleans house and builds a real football staff. 

100% agree. Depending on how the season goes, there could be some talented coordinators available...Mike McCoy, Gus Bradley, etc. could be available if their teams tank. Mike Pettine isn't currently working that I know of, guy is a really good DC. 

As I stated in a previous thread, it's time for TT and MM to go.  I would give Elliot Wolf the GM job.  This team has only one true superstar that can stay healthy.  They have "good" talent on this young roster, but a new direction is needed both from a coaching and roster stand point.  In terms of coaches, I'd be in favor of McDaniels, but only because he's been associated with Belicheck.  Stability is important, but what good does it do if it doesn't get you to the Superbowl.  

michiganjoe posted:

Still not convinced the available talent they do have is being maximized by the coaching staff. Pretty clear to me that the shelf life of MM has expired and a change is needed.

This is the question in the question.  If you start with a new coaching staff and GM what is the true talent evaluation of this team?  There are definitely some contracts that need to be revisited if not cleared altogether.  

If these guys are flaming out simply over coaching, that is a huge indictment to have these caliber of players simply **** the bed because of scheme.  

Do you essentially strip down everything around Rodgers?  I'm not so sure that's the best decision either.

You get him a Tight End and a Running Back for starters.

Washington is gonna destroy us next Sunday night as revenge for last year....

I'd let Mike stay provided he agrees to clean sweep his staff. I'd love to see Lovie in GB as DC. I'd love to see Gus Bradley in GB to coach the LBs. Whitt stays on to coach the secondary. Trgo hasn't done jack **** with all the early picks he's been asked to develop. There is no way TT has whiffed on all those picks. 

As far as OC. I got nothing. But I refuse to believe a hard target search won't identify one. It's not like there aren't a bunch of Jim Bob Cooters out there that would jump at the chance of coaching AR. 

Now, if Mike goes all loyalty and refuses to clean house then he's got to go. This current play doesn't need another act. 

ChilliJon posted:

Other than Whitt I'm fine if every assistant on the team is shown the door. 

Here's the problem. MM hasn't given much reason to think he's capable of rebuilding a solid group of assistants. Why Moss and Clements are still on his staff I'll never know. 

In 2008 Whitt was one of two defensive coaches retained by Mike after a crap season. One of the better defensive coaches GB has had over the past 9 years was Kevin Greene. Greene was brought to GB by Capers. 

GB simply has a substandard collection of assistant coaches right now. Too many players on defense couldn't explain what went wrong after the game yesterday. The defense is a complete collective mess. The offense isn't much better. 

So yeah, I'm ok if Mike stays. Provided he cleans house and builds a real football staff. 

The problem is he's done a ton of coaching roll over in his tenure.  The problem is he's still picking the coaches.  And while I agree there are some seriously horse**** assistants (Edgar isn't exactly tearing it up), new assistants are still working within the confines of MM's system.  And it's the system as a whole that may be the problem.  

MM will go on to another team and have success. I have no doubt about it.  It just seems he's run into a wall in Green Bay.  

You could even ponder what MM would be like if TT was replaced.  I truly don't think it would change the culture.

On the surface, the Greene departure was a head scratcher. Little odd that he hasn't been added to a staff though.

Get the band back together!

holmgren, gruden, mariucci...

what's ray and sherm up to?

Johnny Z posted:

What is Mike Sherman doing?

Midget Summer Stock.

Grave Digger posted:

The Wolf/TT personnel tree has been strong...Schneider, McKenzie, and Dorsey are all taking what they learned from TT/Wolf and adapting it to 2016. I'd like to continue with this tree and keep Eliot Wolf. He's not going to be a TT clone, he's grown up in the changing NFL. 

You do have to wonder if TT is getting to where Wolf Sr. was at the end of his tenure.  I believe the phrase was "the game passes you by".  If we look at the tree you can see all of those guys have stuck pretty solidly to building through the draft but are using FA within the constraints of their cap.  Controlled FA spending when it's warranted.  No ridiculous Snyder spending sprees.

ChilliJon posted:

 Trgo hasn't done jack **** with all the early picks he's been asked to develop. There is no way TT has whiffed on all those picks. 

 

I'm not so sure. Harrell (though injuries), Worthy and Thornton never did anything elsewhere after being let go pretty early, Neal was a 250# guy trying to be a 300# guy and Datone was a little light in the bubble also.  

I'm not suggesting Chryst as an answer and I realize NCAA is not the NFL but it is eye opening to watch his offense operate.  They're not dominant in any way but the pre-snap movement and post-snap shifts and misdirections to half of his plays seem to really open things up.  I haven't had time to watch many other NFL teams to see if there are similarities (though I remember seeing JAX successfully use some of it).  

Watching the offense (and lately the D) so far this season feels like watching preseason games.  Most plays are vanilla, lack of communication, lack of crispness, lack of urgency, lots of slop.  Has anyone actually asked these guys if they know these games count?  

MM = Tom Coughlin

 Haven't posted in quite a while. I'm glad the mention of "Ray" was in jest because this team has begun to look like the Rhodes Packers -- not prepared.

I think MM has hit an emotional/intellectual wall of frustration that robs him of anything like true rest or relaxation and tends to send thinking into closed loops rather than creative directions. The team senses it. He knows he can't get the rest or relaxation during the season -- this season in particular.

I haven't got an answer. I like the guy and wish him well.

Given everything we know about TT and the fact that MM has a rumored $15M left for 17/18, I really don't think he's going anywhere next year. The only possibility I see is if he hears through the grapevine that he could have another job that opens up, he and the team could mutually agree to part ways. (C'mon, Browns. Wouldn't you love some stability and a QB guru to groom Kessler?!)

I think we all need to brace ourselves for his return, but I do think there's a very real chance Dom is finished. Maybe even "retiring" after this year. My worry is on offense, where even if MM sacrifices some lambs, he will always have final say on that side of the ball.

Pistol GB posted:

You get him a Tight End and a Running Back for starters.

This right here is a huge answer for this team in my opinion.  Could it be TT fault for not getting them better RB's and a TE ? I would strongly agree with that.   Ok if we take a breath and think about this for a second.  If you are starting a WR as your RB I don't care who you are that is more than likely NOT going to work.

What would a good RB (and no I don't mean phat Eddie sorry) and TE bring to this team? If the Packers can really run the ball and I mean REALLY can run the ball it opens up so much for the team.  Play action will work, passes out of the backfield can be there, and our long lost play the screen pass.  Then if you have something at TE that opens the middle of the field which in turn makes the defense respect the run and the middle of the field which gives the offense more options.  And with that being said it can even help the defense but then again not sure what could help this pathetic defense.   I say bring back Kevin Greene they had some fire when he was there.

Eddie has been pretty good, when in shape. I also liked the little we saw of Crockett, who is also on IR, as a backup. They were extremely thin at RB but that was a plethora of wealth compared to TE. 

DJ Williams, Ryan Taylor, DikPlod and Backman are the only draft picks at the position since Finley went down and out, and Cook was the only real attempt at getting a guy from outside to fill the hole. 

TT gave MM a RB & TE. The only problem is that MM could not keep the RB from gaining 30 pounds & had the bad luck of having the TE injured. 

No QB's? Too bad. We need a QB. Ours is broken.

Conner had a really nice game for PITT saturday.  Tough runner with some burst.

If you were serious about QB, Hundley is probably as good as anyone available at 18.

mr21mr21 posted:

Theo Epstein

Also Anthony Rizzo as defensive coach and Kyle Schwarber as Offensive guard

I will be heavily disappointed if MM is the coach next season barring a crazy turnaround this year.  The offense is terrible (Vanilla, stale, etc), the 2-time MVP QB in his prime has regressed, the defense continues to suck, ST continues to be a liability, and there are strong signs that there is no motivation on the team, which is essentially the responsibility of the coaching staff.  Hell, even AR is calling out the organization because people don't fear for their jobs. I can't think of one single thing MM and his staff are excelling at.  

I don't think it will happen, but I'd fire TT along with MM and his staff (Except maybe the dback coach).  Elliot Wolf would replace TT... his choice on the HC vacancy.  

Pakrz posted:

I will be heavily disappointed if MM is the coach next season barring a crazy turnaround this year.  The offense is terrible (Vanilla, stale, etc), the 2-time MVP QB in his prime has regressed, the defense continues to suck, ST continues to be a liability, and there are strong signs that there is no motivation on the team, which is essentially the responsibility of the coaching staff.  Hell, even AR is calling out the organization because people don't fear for their jobs. I can't think of one single thing MM and his staff are excelling at.  

I don't think it will happen, but I'd fire TT along with MM and his staff (Except maybe the dback coach).  Elliot Wolf would replace TT... his choice on the HC vacancy.  

<<<THIS>>>  

Pistol GB posted:

You get him a Tight End and a Running Back for starters.

TT is working on it, give him some more time.  <sarcasm>

YATittle posted:

MM = Tom Coughlin

Minus 1 SB. And Coughlin got 4 seasons after his last SB, MM has had 6. And MM has a melt down in the NFCC game in Seattle under his belt, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

maybe Harbaugh. If he can get out of his Michigan deal.

From MM's presser today:

"I love this group...We're really dialed into how it happened & why it happened, & that will remain our focus."

This can only mean they were sort of dialed in about what happened and why it happened against Indy. 

Now they are really dialed in. Is it possible to be super duper dialed in? 

I think everyone has mentally checked out. 

I know he's not gonna say "man, I've lost it. I can't seem to call an offense anymore and our D can't stop a scheduled train" but...  

DocBenni posted:

  This team has only one true superstar that can stay healthy. 

Where is this guy?

They're Double-Secret Dialed IN. 

If the team was dialed in, they wouldn't have started 3 and out with a drive starting at midfield. A dialed in QB throws a pass to Cobb on 3rd down that can be caught. A dialed in QB looks in the mirror after the game rather than complaining at the podium.

Dialed in to a busy signal

Orlando Wolf posted:

On the surface, the Greene departure was a head scratcher. Little odd that he hasn't been added to a staff though.

I think Greene left for personal reasons, with the demands of coaching chipping away at his time with his family.  I could be wrong but I don't think he's been actively looking to get back into coaching.  

MM might need to go.  Tt's not just his offensive philosophy but the apathy this team has recently shown on the field.  You can't fix that with new coordinators or a new game plan.  If this team continues to play like they did against Indy and Tennessee, I don't see how you can keep MM.  11 years is a long time and maybe it's just time for change.  

I like the idea of keeping Whitt and Campen.  I know Campen was a whipping boy on this board for awhile but he's put together a hell of an offensive line with mostly late round picks (one 1st rounder, three 4th rounders and a UDFA, with a 5th rounder and UDFA as top backups).  Outside of that, i don't see any other position group being developed at an above average rate, so no reason to keep any other assistants.  

No idea who to hire as head coach.  I'd avoid McDaniels though.  He was a disaster in Denver not just on the field but off (had another spygate incident that didn't get much traction with the media).  I'd look at Kyle Shanahan, only I'm not sure he has enough experience yet to be a head coach.  It'd be great to get a guy like Lovie who could bring Kyle here knowing he has full control over he offense but I think that's the same set up he has in Atlanta, so not sure why he'd leave.  

But in reality, I think MM gets one more year.  That's just how this franchise rolls under TT, patient, methodical and rarely anything knee jerk.  Should be an interesting off season.