We need a defense thread now that we FINALLY have a new DC.
I can't wait to see the result in September & beyond.
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Very unfair that OC's will need to redo all their scouting after using the same material for almost a decade.
Change can be good but this Will be good.
MGBDGA
That guy is a frickin' ding dong. The Kyle Fuller offer was a good move? Handing the Bears a totally manageable CB contract? Bring back Gunter? Will Pettine make him any faster?
I'm more interested in the fact he was observing Seattle last year. Considering the schemes he ran with the Jets and Ravens that's a definite change up. I think we will see something entirely new. I wouldn't be surprised if it's pretty simplistic at times simply due to getting the young guys deprogrammed from all the Wizarding. This could be a pretty odd ball defense but there always seems to be a surge in units when competent coaches come aboard simply due to excitement.
Let's hope GOC sticks to offense.
I actually like what’s going on with the defense and the overall moves. They didn’t offer crazy money to anyone and I’m good with that. I really like the Wilkerson and Tramon signings. Not thrilled with Jimmy Graham as I think his best days are behind him but it’s still a relatively low risk, high reward decision.
I also don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility they could add another veteran before camp as teams thin their rosters.
They have a ton of draft picks and are well positioned to move up to get the guy they want - which I assume will be an OLB pass rusher or DB.
Then there’s the Pettine effect. I firmly believe Capers alone cost them 2-3 games a year with his over the top schemes and questionable play calls. Good riddens.
Unfortunately those games all seemed to be in the playoffs. I'm curious if Grinkydink (edit, better name) will get involved in any trades. Kyler Fackrell and a 7th for Josh Norman, that kind of stuff.
Henry posted:That guy is a frickin' ding dong. The Kyle Fuller offer was a good move?
You don't think making your rival pay more for a player they wanted to get on the cheap a good move?? I wish they would've poison pilled that contract a little more or even put more money on the deal.
Fuller played damn good last year & let me know the next time we have a shot at a 26 year old CB.
I can see how the Packers forced the contract to be backloaded but considering the Bears cap room it doesn't seem like much a threat. They were going to pay up for CB in the first place considering the other insane contracts. The Bears obviously didn't think much of it as they signed him immediately.
What was the downside of the offer then? They forced the Bears to back load instead of possibly front loading (which is usually ideal).
Kyler Fackrell JFC
TT must have had too many Bud Lites on ice when he drafted that guy as he sucks
Yeah they backloaded the hell out of his contract. Unless he’s a top 5 CB in the NFL in 2 years they will have to do a major restructure or cut him. I don’t see a downside for GB.
Tschmack posted:Kyler Fackrell JFC
TT must have had too many Bud Lites on ice when he drafted that guy as he sucks
Mormon quota affirmative action.
I like this topic. I have watched GBP since...well, a VERY long time. Over the years I have seen defenses change to adapt to the passing game and speedy athletes. No longer a bunch of lumbering head hunters.The defense now needs the young players have to have the speed and quickness to match today's wide open /well planned offense. These kids on defense are wonders of the human body! But it still takes a coach to mold them. It takes a special coach that can take a naturally gifted athlete, motivate him and make him think, anticipate and perform at a high level , play after play.
I heard that MP has done that in the past on defense.
Therefore, fewer Mormons?
Less Nick Perry, because he's just stealing Money. Slow and can't cover bad combo for a linebacker, then again maybe he's going against Richard Rodgers in practice
Perry can be a disruptive pass rusher but he had next to no help last year. For him to start racking up sacks like he did in 2016, he needs SOMEONE ELSE to help generate the rush. He had that with Peppers and Matthews in 2016.
Last season, it was down to him and an aging Clay. Now with Wilkerson plus what is likely to be a high draft choice at OLB, Perry will get much needed help. Plus, Biegel and Adams should be healthy and have a full offseason including actually participating in TC and PS to see what we have.
This defense needs some nasty.
I'm not saying Vontaze Burfict or Suh cheap shot bullsh** nasty. But there has to be a streak of mean to this defense. Maybe that's an emerging Clark? Wilkerson? Daniels? or a couple of fresh rookies? But something needs to change with the attitude of the defense.
Capers stowed away in his climate controlled booth and no Kevin Greene type coaches resulted in piss poor energy on this defense. Just go back and watch the Carolina game. That was the game Rodgers was back, the Panthers were certainly beatable that week, and the energy and sense of urgency through out the whole game just fukking sucked, particularly on defense.
HHCD played horrible. CMIII had it told to his face by Cam Newton the play they were about to run. Then Cam did it, they scored a TD, and Capers defense was so ridiculously predictable CMIII and the D could do nothing to stop the drive.
That horsesh&t cannot be acceptable in 2018. And I have a feeling under Pettine it won't be.
A back loaded deal prevents the Bears from using their current cap room for a good player. When they start getting good roster wise (and I get the idea that they’re going to be), they’ll see the numbers for Fuller kick in and they’ll have a harder time with cap space. Maybe just gamesmanship, but they’ll have to deal with it. A little kiss for a rival.
Pettine doesn’t like to blitz according to reports. This means 4 man pressure. Unless Wilkerson is able to collapse the middle, they’re going to struggle to generate pass rush unless of course they add some lightning to the front. The Draft will make this a more interesting conversation.
I think Packers run D is needed to defend the passing game.
I don’t think you’re wrong. I think they have players who can defend the pass, but they may not be a top 10 D this year, but they they’ll be better than previous years.
And if 12 comes back with a purpose as I suspect he will, they’ll be right in it. Couple bounces, who knows?
But I think you’re right that the stink of the previous defense will take some time to rub off. That shouldn’t preclude them from contending as long as 12 is throwing to a healthy crew behind a healthy crew, but 2019 seems the more intriguing season. Assuming Pettine’s all he’s cracked up to be of course...
Brown Paper Sack posted:I think it'll take a couple years to fix the Packer D. The run D isn't terrible. It's just gonna take time to acquire the players needed to defend the passing game.
With Wilkerson signed plus Clark & Daniels, I fully expect their run D to be top half, probably top 10 of the NFL. Anything less is unacceptable.
It's a passing league & DB's are a work in progress.
I'm interested to see how the LB'ers perform behind that beefy DL.
Brown Paper Sack posted:packerboi posted:This defense needs some nasty.
I'm not saying Vontaze Burfict or Suh cheap shot bullsh** nasty. But there has to be a streak of mean to this defense. Maybe that's an emerging Clark? Wilkerson? Daniels? or a couple of fresh rookies? But something needs to change with the attitude of the defense.
Capers stowed away in his climate controlled booth and no Kevin Greene type coaches resulted in piss poor energy on this defense. Just go back and watch the Carolina game. That was the game Rodgers was back, the Panthers were certainly beatable that week, and the energy and sense of urgency through out the whole game just fukking sucked, particularly on defense.
HHCD played horrible. CMIII had it told to his face by Cam Newton the play they were about to run. Then Cam did it, they scored a TD, and Capers defense was so ridiculously predictable CMIII and the D could do nothing to stop the drive.
That horsesh&t cannot be acceptable in 2018. And I have a feeling under Pettine it won't be.
Kinda demoralizing for a defense when your QB keeps giving the ball back to Carolina.
You must have talked to the Vikes D after the championship game. I take it you're on a "First Name" basis with them. I can hear Barr now. " Hey guys, The Brown Paper Ballwasher is here! "
Music City posted:
Pettine doesn’t like to blitz according to reports. This means 4 man pressure. Unless Wilkerson is able to collapse the middle, they’re going to struggle to generate pass rush unless of course they add some lightning to the front. The Draft will make this a more interesting conversation.
Not so sure about that.
Pettine's first year as Jets DC: 32.5 sacks - 13 by DBs or MLBer.
2nd year: 40 sacks - 14 by DBs & MLBer .
3rd year: 40 sacks - 10 by DBs & MLBer .
4th year: 30 sacks - 8 by DBs & MLBer
Packers this past season: 37 sacks - 5 by DBs & MLBer
Music City posted:I don’t think you’re wrong.
A Suckqueen fan is always rong.
packerboi posted:Perry can be a disruptive pass rusher but he had next to no help last year. For him to start racking up sacks like he did in 2016, he needs SOMEONE ELSE to help generate the rush. He had that with Peppers and Matthews in 2016.
Last season, it was down to him and an aging Clay. Now with Wilkerson plus what is likely to be a high draft choice at OLB, Perry will get much needed help. Plus, Biegel and Adams should be healthy and have a full offseason including actually participating in TC and PS to see what we have.
Perry's biggest issue is staying on the field. When he's there he's very solid. He is absurd in sealing an edge and run support and has a hell of a bull rush.
They need to draft legit pass rushers simply because of age and health but that doesn't mean the cupboard is bare. If both Matthews and Perry can maintain a level of health that doesn't keep them off the field or noticeably hampered we'll hopefully see a "rebirth" of sorts.
Again, this is all about Pettine at this point. Best signing of the offseason.
Pettine has “a KILL philosophy – keep it likable and learnable” – and that’s what we do, and (Green Bay) is going to play fast and play physical, and I can’t wait to watch them.
— Rex Ryan
(Pettine’s system) will make good players great. If you’re an average player, you’ll be good. There were times when Mike and I were together, we literally had no NFL corner, and yet we found a way to make it work… If you love the game, then these guys died and went to heaven in this system.
— Rex Ryan
If you just look at Mike, he looks like an intimidating guy. But, man, when you get to talking to him, he’s just such a nice guy… you start talking to him and it’s, ‘Oh , man, this ain’t who I thought I was talking to.
— Tramon Williams, ex-Packers cornerback, who played for Pettine in Cleveland
He can command a team, a defense, just by his look.”
— Tramon Williams
He demands a lot of his players. He does. He’s a guy who has certain expectations on what football should look like, what your level of effort (should be) and what wins at that level.
— Jim Leonhard, ex-Badger defensive back, played for Pettine on the Jets and Bills
If he needs to be a screamer and a yeller, he will. But he wants the game to be fun… so if you handle your business and you’re a professional, he’s going to allow you to be yourself… But you’ve got to put the work in.
— Jim Leonhard
Two words come to my mind when I think of him: Flexibility — his system will be flexible to find the most talented playmakers and the matchups week-in and week-out. And then creativity — to be able to put those guys in position to make plays on a consistent basis.
— Jim Leonhard
Grave Digger posted:Yeah they backloaded the hell out of his contract. Unless he’s a top 5 CB in the NFL in 2 years they will have to do a major restructure or cut him. I don’t see a downside for GB.
It isn't a matter of a downside. The Packers basically negotiated for them and the Bears were so uncomfortable with it they signed him in two seconds. So if they were actually making an offer they thought Fuller would consider, great, but it sure looks like pretty milquetoast subterfuge. So yeah, they backloaded a contract for the one guy who played pretty well for them while they have a huge chunk of cap. Minor victory.
Negotiations with free agents really is not on MP. Its on the front office perhaps with his input. But we don't have the cap money to blow so the GBP's do the best they can.
I am more interested with what he does with the players the Packers eventually end up with.
Yeah, from all that I read about the Fuller offer seemed a bit amateur hour-ish. But discussing this here does fit in that the effort in making it harder for the Bears to resign him was a lot like a Capers defensive effort. Kinda like flicking a fly off your nose.
Brown Paper Sack posted:I think it'll take a couple years to fix the Packer D. The run D isn't terrible. It's just gonna take time to acquire the players needed to defend the passing game.
If they can sniff the top half of the league I'd be ecstatic. I do think they'll get the "new and fresh" bump you get when a solid position coach comes in so they may surprise. Gudenflutz will need to find permanent fixes for the existing patches over the next couple years for sure.
Henry and chickenboy in agreement. That happened.
Heard an interview with James Inhegdibo who played for Pettine. Was asked about him and spoke in glowing terms. Basically said Green Bay was fortunate.
And at least twice he used the word "exotic." Doh.
Personnel matters, but I expect Pettine to do much more with what he's given than the previous DC did. It was always legitimate to question the defensive talent, but hard to make the case Dom squeezed the most out what he did have.
packerboi posted:This defense needs some nasty.
I'm not saying Vontaze Burfict or Suh cheap shot bullsh** nasty. But there has to be a streak of mean to this defense. Maybe that's an emerging Clark? Wilkerson? Daniels? or a couple of fresh rookies? But something needs to change with the attitude of the defense.
Capers stowed away in his climate controlled booth and no Kevin Greene type coaches resulted in piss poor energy on this defense. Just go back and watch the Carolina game. That was the game Rodgers was back, the Panthers were certainly beatable that week, and the energy and sense of urgency through out the whole game just fukking sucked, particularly on defense.
HHCD played horrible. CMIII had it told to his face by Cam Newton the play they were about to run. Then Cam did it, they scored a TD, and Capers defense was so ridiculously predictable CMIII and the D could do nothing to stop the drive.
That horsesh&t cannot be acceptable in 2018. And I have a feeling under Pettine it won't be.
This. Noticed the same thing in that game.
Dave in GA posted:Imagine how chickenboy feels.....
If you sort through all his forced machismo, you would see that we actually agree quite often.
You don't understand dripping sarcasm and repressed rage (among other things) of the optimistic nihilist very well. I'll leave the machismo to my Florida compatriots.
FLPACKER posted:Packers this past season : 37 sacks
Amazing what a misleading stat this is. Maybe it's beacause they needed to blitz to get pressure and the secondary was embarrassing, but compare them to Philly this past season : 38 sacks. The Eagles applied constant pressure with thier front and were like wild banshees in harassing the QB.....Packers, not so much. Sack stats be damned.
Can't wait to see what Pettine can do.
As many in this topic mention pass rush and use the example of Phil and their 38 sacks. 38 is not a great quantity but I think what Phila did and other great defenses have done is press the pocket. I recall the 2000 Ravens had a very small number of sack but the pass pro was stressed every down and they yielded few rushing yards. This is the format I think Pettine will emphasize and don't be surprised if our favorite whipping boy Kyler Fackerell plays a key role in a sub-package
If you’re an average player, you’ll be good.
I would settle for "good" from some of the players that Capers messed up on.
After the preseason we will see who they are. If this defense can improve a little bit I will be singing MP's praises.
But most importantly, I want to see a better game plan for the defense. I hate that we were so predictable. When the pass rush/blitzes did not get there we were toast. I want to see more press man. Mug the receivers, get you hands on them make them pay when the ball comes their way. And if the rush does not produce a sack make sure that the QB feels the pressure esp up the middle. I have hopes that MP can do that.