2019 Packers Vs Texans Preseason Game 1 thread

my +/-

+ we have depth at cb, matter of fact, we are going to probably get rid of some pretty good prospects

+44,16,36,8,29,22

ty summers looks to be ok there, jake kumerow is making this team, and don't sleep on him being a contributor, kadar hollman looks good, boyle looks way better than 9

-82,9

kizer would be good, but he does not trust what he sees and he STARES down his receiver almost ridiculous...and moore needs to be sent to the ps, if he's eligible, and just work on jugs, if he can't get that figured out, he's got to be gone.

and meh, 52 - the guy is getting straight line pressure, but either they move past him or around him, so he's causing pressure, which is good, but isn't doing anything with it. yet.  I hope that will come, the defense can get after the qb it seems.

Yeah. Totally agree on Moore, MichiganJoe, while Kumerow, Lazard & Shepherd are oozing with confidence. Darrius Shepherd wins the toughness award tonight, hanging on while getting BLASTED, for his 1st NFL reception for the TD. Hung on well as PR. He looks to have no fear at all, and this kid can play.

We saw some cool stuff for a preseason game last night. Our secondary made the biggest impression on me for its depth. We had players all up and down that part of our roster making plays. Hollman, Sullivan, Greene, Redmon, Brown & Ento all looked solid. Added to Amos, Savage, King, Alexander & Williams, and this looks to be a very talented group all the way through.

Nice seeing they signed S Ibraheim Campbell too yesterday. That dude can play, and has the added benefit of knowing Pettine's system.

Our OL did some impressive stuff. My biggest two contributors were Elgton Jenkins and Cole Madison. Really impressive showings by both. I keyed in on a lot of that work, especially late watching Nijman. The kid can run block. Made some nice moves in pass protection too, but can get caught in the minutia for lack of a better term. He has his moments, but I consider him a lock simply for the development opportunities that lie ahead, especially with his size and athleticism.

Our DL has some solid depth, as Adams, Keke and Simon showed well. All 3 of those players were impressive in run support and in collapsing the pocket. I think Rashan Gary just needs to learn more moves to get to the QB. He's got some great people to learn from. Not worried about him at all. Gilbert flashed.

LB looked pretty damn good with Summers, Crawford, Bolton, and Ramsey, but our pass rush looked unimpressive. Ton of missed tackles in run support, but first time out tackling this year. Coverage was hot and cold. I really like Curtis Bolton. That dude plays with some good energy and made a nice PD, short arms and all. Could tell Summers was worn out, and that he wasn't happy with his performance, but showed well early. I think he played nearly the entire game from the 8:00 mark of 1st Q when Burks went down.

STs looked decent, but they have work to do. EQ's TD was a great play. JK Scott did a nice job, and good to see Crosby back out there.

Looks like backup QB biggest challengers are Boyle and Wilkins. Boyle played lights out.

At RB Dexter Williams flashed his potential, but the run blocking seemed less than desired overall. That will change with more reps. I wanted to see more of Tra Carson.

TE, it was the Big Bob Show. Tonyan is so damned impressive. Made some nice blocks and made a great catch on 3rd and long.

 ---

On the other side, Moore and Kizer look done. Sheldon at LB seemed to struggle. Burks going out will not help him. I'm really wondering about Oren Burks, and expected a bit more from him. He seems like a square peg in a round hole... more than anything.

l was not impressed with Scott last year-I was impressed with him last night-that was good.

Biggest positive overall was the +3 for turnover differential. Teams historically win 91% of the time that they have a +3 in any game. 

Biggest negative is that we can't expect a +3 in most games and other that the TOs we were outplayed.  

Remember those days when Holmgren used Craig Hentrich as a weapon? He could too, as he had an incredible defense who would hold their ground more often than not.

FLPacker, stats are weird in preseason. I would be somewhat concerned if it were regular season, but not so much now. Hell, Kizer can't throw a screen. Played the entire 1st half. He wound up with some decent stats, but doesn't exude confidence.

You're right, great seeing the TOs return for our D and STs. Our ball security was pretty tight. Stats show 1 GB fumble, but I don't recall it. 0 INT. Nice.

Another good takeaway, how about Matt LaFleur having his guys ready? We saw some great contributions and play from his 2nd, 3rd and 4th string players. That's saying something against a team that went 11-5 last year.

Watching these preseason games are just brutal.  You know teams want to avoid injuries so rarely do any good players actually see playing time. 

The owners and players have to come to terms with this and either eliminate them or replace with regular season games. 

I like football but you couldn’t pay me to sit through an entire preseason game.  

Saw about a total of half of the first half.  

Like Henry said, these aren't as much about team play as individual 1-on-1's but they still tell you something in that regards.

Kizer inconsistent but at least shows ability.  Less Moore.  Kid has a problem catching with his hands which is not a good trait for a WR.  Kumerow comes through when needed.  Gary looked like 3yds and a cloud a dust, kind of like at UM.  JK Rowling Scott needs to maintain the mo.  Shitbird will be a valuable part of the RB room.  Ka'dar definitely on the radar.  

I dd not watch the game. But I listened to the radio. I was thinking that Kizer sucked. Then this morning I read in the media that he did well. Many posters here thought that Kizer was not doing well and, like me, was made to look better because his receivers caught difficult passes. I will watch the game today when it repeats on NFL network.

J'mon.  He's in his 2nd year in the league and hasn't been coached to hand catch yet, or can't figure it out?  He's trying to cradle catch balls at the pro level?

You can't teach speed but speed means nothing if you can't catch the ball.  PS for him at the most, gone won't disappoint either.

I didn't watch much, but I just have a different vibe on the team this year than most recent years. 

Since shortly after Wolf/Holmgren/Favre arrived 27 years ago, I went into every season thinking that if they just had an average amount of luck they were likely to make a deep playoff run. The exceptions were 2005-2006 (the transition from Sherman to MM) and 2008 (Rodgers first year as a starter). 

This year has more of the 2008 type vibe in that I don't have a sense of what to expect. I expected poor seasons in 2005/2006 just like I expected poor seasons from 1975-1992. 

They still have a great (maybe not all-world anymore) QB, one of the best LTs in football, a legit #1 WR, and some promise at RB. A lot of the rest we won't really know about until the real games start. At least a lot of the new faces have a chance to be good (unlike years when we kept running guys out there like RichRod, a bunch of sub-par DBs and ILBS, etc. that we knew we were just trying to get by with). 

We need to get a whole lot better with our tackling, or this is going to be a long season. Players were whiffing on tackles that would have stopped drives. Sloppy!

Johnson posted:

l was not impressed with Scott last year-I was impressed with him last night-that was good.

I was totally impressed seeing an NFL player wearing shorts

I have a peeve with defense on the interior brought on by how dismal it so often was under Capers.

That being said, I wonder how our ILB corps is supposing Oren Burks doesn't pan out.

Trophies, great to hear about Cole Madison.  It's almost like getting something for nothing.

On a couple of non-Packer notes, this receiver for Miami, Preston Williams, sure looked good.  Undrafted out of Colorado State.  6'5" 225 pounds.  As did the rookie QB for the Giants.

Tackling was fairly unspectacular. Very reminiscent of the Domfense.

Summers > Jake Ryan

mrtundra posted:

We need to get a whole lot better with our tackling, or this is going to be a long season. Players were whiffing on tackles that would have stopped drives. Sloppy!

 

Almost looks like they don't practice tackling !!! .....cause they don't (damn CBA) 

Heard someone describe Summers as Jake Ryan with speed. Not much love among Packer fans for Kizer but I thought he played reasonably well.

MichiganPacker2 posted:

I didn't watch much, but I just have a different vibe on the team this year than most recent years. 

Since shortly after Wolf/Holmgren/Favre arrived 27 years ago, I went into every season thinking that if they just had an average amount of luck they were likely to make a deep playoff run. The exceptions were 2005-2006 (the transition from Sherman to MM) and 2008 (Rodgers first year as a starter). 

This year has more of the 2008 type vibe in that I don't have a sense of what to expect. I expected poor seasons in 2005/2006 just like I expected poor seasons from 1975-1992. 

They still have a great (maybe not all-world anymore) QB, one of the best LTs in football, a legit #1 WR, and some promise at RB. A lot of the rest we won't really know about until the real games start. At least a lot of the new faces have a chance to be good (unlike years when we kept running guys out there like RichRod, a bunch of sub-par DBs and ILBS, etc. that we knew we were just trying to get by with). 

What Bones said.  Too many new parts to get a read and the live practice thing and following comments create more of a unknown situation. 

The one thing we can get more of a handle on is the defense, which is ****ing refreshing.  I'm pretty excited about this D.  I think there's enough core talent that bottom roster guys can truly fill in and be productive.  Holman is definitely fun to watch.  Summers looks like a good rotation/STer, hopefully more.  Greene, good instincts. 

I didn't watch a lot of Michigan ball but I agree with PKR North, Gary had pressure but I'm not seeing all these amazing things we keep hearing about.  Hopefully this doesn't turn into another Hawkian experience.  Adams, meh, he'll probably be more effective when he's playing between Clark and the Smithi.  At least he can contribute on rotation hopefully.  Burks, simply can't get a read on this guy. 

Offense, I like what Jenkins, Madison and Shitbird bring.  We haven't seen the revamped Oline so having those two guys showing up is a relief.  Other than individual contributions it's hard to say what the offense will be like. 

michiganjoe posted:

Heard someone describe Summers as Jake Ryan with speed. Not much love among Packer fans for Kizer but I thought he played reasonably well.

Kizer pulls off the Hundley where he plays half ass enough to put up some stats, which masks his fundamental flaws.

michiganjoe posted:

Heard someone describe Summers as Jake Ryan with speed. Not much love among Packer fans for Kizer but I thought he played reasonably well.

I look at it like this, when Kizer is out there, I don't see a very smooth operation.  You'd like to think that a guy in his 3rd year would seem to be more "in command" of things than he is.  As others have pointed out, he stares down receivers, his accuracy is suspect, and his decision making questionable.  He does have some athletic gifts overall (decent arm strength, runs well for a big guy), but not so much that you feel like he has a huge amount of upside. 

I want Kizer to succeed as he seems like a nice enough kid, but I don't think the fact that he never won an NFL game when he started at Cleveland is an accident. 

Packdog posted:

mrtundra posted:

We need to get a whole lot better with our tackling, or this is going to be a long season. Players were whiffing on tackles that would have stopped drives. Sloppy!

 

Almost looks like they don't practice tackling !!! .....cause they don't (damn CBA) 

That's awesome. I don't like it, but, I get it. Players are just far bigger in mass and have greater speed than in the Lombardi days. The threat of injury part I can understand, and I've come around to being OK with them working on tackling in the preseason games.

It is one hell of a lot of force.

FightPhoe93, I find the whole Kizer thing elusive, just like the confidence he exudes, or doesn't exude...??? Weird. I just don't see him as a real leader players can get behind to win games.

I lost it when he couldn't throw a screen pass, on a perfectly set up play. WTF? How? Threw the ball into the ground 3 feet in front of the RB.

fightphoe93 posted:

I want Kizer to succeed as he seems like a nice enough kid, but I don't think the fact that he never won an NFL game when he started at Cleveland is an accident.  

Think Hue Jacskon had a bit to do with that. Not convinced either Kizer or Boyle is good enough to an adequate #2.

Trophies posted:

I lost it when he couldn't throw a screen pass, on a perfectly set up play. WTF? How? Threw the ball into the ground 3 feet in front of the RB.

 Defense blew that screen play up. Good throw-away by Kizer.

MJ, he seemed wide open to me. I know he had heat, but that's the normal draw on a screen. I believe the receiver was wide open and it would have gone for a big play.

Oh, well. They look like they know what they are doing up there with the personnel.

michiganjoe posted:

fightphoe93 posted:

I want Kizer to succeed as he seems like a nice enough kid, but I don't think the fact that he never won an NFL game when he started at Cleveland is an accident.  

Think Hue Jacskon had a bit to do with that. Not convinced either Kizer or Boyle is good enough to an adequate #2.

Zero issue with bringing in a vet.  But if they are going to run with Kizer and Boyle again at least get Boyle some real reps instead of constant scrub time.

I read that the new 3rd. down fog horn while on defense was not a fan favorite.   Was anyone here at the game to give their opinion?  

Tschmack posted:

Watching these preseason games are just brutal.  You know teams want to avoid injuries so rarely do any good players actually see playing time. 

The owners and players have to come to terms with this and either eliminate them or replace with regular season games. 

I like football but you couldn’t pay me to sit through an entire preseason game.  

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!  This right here. 

What was the point of last night?  What was gained?  One projected starter injured for no good reason, and if we only get one injury in the next 3 pointless, b.s. games, we will consider ourselves lucky.

I mean you sit there watching, and if someone does happen to make a good play, you want him taken out of the game.  What fun is that? 

Pre-season is a leftover fossil from the days when teams needed them to put together an NFL caliber offensive system.  They don't need them for that anymore. College football has evolved to the point they come in more or less ready.  The speed and intensity of the game has also evolved to the point it's just too dangerous to play games that don't count. Not to mention they barely wear pads any more.

I agree with Tschmack: These games gotta go.  Make them count.  If that means sloppier play for the first couple games, so be it.  At least people aren't risking their heads and careers over nothing.  

And no, I don't think pre-season games are necessary to decide the roster.  Not 4 of them.  I'd bet they know right now who they are going to keep and who they are not.  The only difference is going to be who gets injured the next 3 times they put the pads on and tell these second stringers to go bash heads for no good reason.  It's stupid, pointless, and not even mildly entertaining.  **** it.

I totally agree on preseason games.  I can see 2 games at the most but the 4 preseason game is just too much.  Honestly with so many mini camps that teams have now and the 2 or so weeks before the first preseason game coaches pretty much know who is going to make the team.  The problem as I see it is owners want the extra money that pre season games bring them and unless they get more regular season games we may be stuck with ugly preseason football.

Packers-Raiders tix not selling

Only sold 8,900 tickets so far - stadium capacity is only 33,000.  NFL trying to gouge Canadians for a meaningless pre-season game:

That comes out to about $144 in US dollars. That’s in line with per-seat prices for the CFL’s 2018 Grey Cup, which is its equivalent of the Super Bowl.

kizer for me, unless he quickly, and I mean quickly figures out a) how to not stare down his wr's and b) use the dump off when it's there, he's going to be short lived.  he had a perfect dump off situation to vitale and instead ran himself.  those kinds of things, make me question the smarts.  Every throw, he stares his receivers down, against real 1st string defenses, that is not going to cut it.  he has arm strength, but his accuracy also sucks. I get he's young, but how long can you stash an important spot for a guy like that.

Here's where I'm at with kizer. Who did you like more last night...webb or kizer? Same guy in my opinion,  but webb played much better outside of his bonehead int.  Webb is their 3rd stringer. 

...and webb has been in the league for 10 years. I'll move on to Boyle at this point. 

Henry posted : Kizer pulls off the Hundley where he plays half ass enough to put up some stats, which masks his fundamental flaws.

Kizer overthrew his target on his 2 biggest completions, including the TD, but the receivers were able to pull them down without getting decapitated 

After watching replay, Gary was a huge meh...against an already suspect 2nd team o line. He is stiff, upright and no bend. Push and patty cake.

He actually got entirely washed out 1 on 1 by Texans starting te on a run play. Not that he won't improve but his debut was not what I expected. 

Kizer looked a lot like Hundley, no confidence out there. Fundamentals go out the window when the ball is snapped, very little interest in working from the pocket, poor decision making overall. Boyle seems the opposite, he seems supremely confident and looks like a pocket passer, but just isn't quite always making the correct read. Boyle's issues are correctable with experience, I'm not sure that will help Kizer any more than it helped Hundley. Ultimately both are still young players and on their second offense in as many years (Kizer on his 3rd in 3), so it's not surprising neither looks fully comfortable yet. Right now I'd give the nod to Boyle, but I think they both deserve the full preseason to shake off some rust.  

The defense Kizer went against was markedly better than the one Boyle went against......but.....need a better back up than what we have. 

Grave Digger posted:

Kizer looked a lot like Hundley, no confidence out there. Fundamentals go out the window when the ball is snapped, very little interest in working from the pocket, poor decision making overall. Boyle seems the opposite, he seems supremely confident and looks like a pocket passer, but just isn't quite always making the correct read. Boyle's issues are correctable with experience, I'm not sure that will help Kizer any more than it helped Hundley. Ultimately both are still young players and on their second offense in as many years (Kizer on his 3rd in 3), so it's not surprising neither looks fully comfortable yet. Right now I'd give the nod to Boyle, but I think they both deserve the full preseason to shake off some rust.  

Why can’t MLF see that?

WolfPack posted:

Henry posted : Kizer pulls off the Hundley where he plays half ass enough to put up some stats, which masks his fundamental flaws.

Kizer overthrew his target on his 2 biggest completions, including the TD, but the receivers were able to pull them down without getting decapitated 

Yes, I thought Kizer almost got Shepard killed for no reason on the TD. Shepard was wide open. OTOH, the TD to Moore by Boyle while on the move was as pretty a throw as could be: on the money, great touch, only where his guy could get it. The other TD by Boyle was a little high and behind Lazard, who was covered, but it wasn't as bad as Kizer's.

Trophies posted:

Some of the most knowledgeable fans in the NFL.   

One of the great myths in all of sports, IMO. When I'm at Lambeau I hear some of the most stupid takes you could imagine. Every... Time...

I don't know, maybe the idiots are just louder than the so called intelligent fans. I will say that GB fans as a whole are probably the most friendly I've been around, but intelligent? Yeah, I can't go that far. 

Sufferinginmn posted:

After watching replay, Gary was a huge meh...against an already suspect 2nd team o line. He is stiff, upright and no bend. Push and patty cake.

He actually got entirely washed out 1 on 1 by Texans starting te on a run play. Not that he won't improve but his debut was not what I expected. 

I think the fear of some when he was drafted was that he was an athletic freak but the measurables didn't translate on the field.  He showed good speed and quickness, but it just didn't seem to amount to any actual damage on the field last night. 

One thing to consider with him, he's probably one of the younger guys out there as he won't turn age 22 until December so you can't get much greener than he is. I'd call it a disappointing debut if you wanted big time impact, but I also wouldn't say it was just horrible either as his speed and quickness is pretty evident. 

And let's not forget Kizer's throw for a Pick 6 to Tony Brown.  Talk about telegraphed.

I don't know if Boyle is also prone to this.

Finally, maybe the other QB is better than the both of them.