He's got it. Plain and simple. And you can't teach it. You have to have it.
Enough its.
It's that attitude of cockiness yet knowing that it's a team game and getting the most out of everyone. That's it! 
@Tschmack posted:Michael Vick was a crazy good weapon as well but does anyone really think he or Justin Fields were decent throwers? I donât.
Again, at Virginia Tech and Ohio State they werenât asked to be complete QBs because honestly they didnât have to be. No different than years at Wisconsin where the primary job of the QB was to take the snap and hand it off to the RB.
Running first QBs donât have long careers in the NFL. Fields wonât make it to his next contract if he canât develop and become a consistent threat in the passing game. That task is made a lot more difficult when the team around you isnât very good. CJ Stroud will figure that out quickly playing for an awful Texans team.
Fields is following in the foot steps of Bobby Douglas. He could have a short career, in the NFL. If his career is cut short, I'll blame the Bears' management. Not giving Fields any protection, until maybe, this year, was a crime. Not that I care about the Bears.
This is why I don't listen to pundits. They all thought Clifford was unworthy of a draft pick.
@Timmy! posted:The way I see it, it's not so much about playing against "scrubs" or starters, it's more about the execution or the 'mechanics' of the play.
Was the play called correctly, did the QB take the proper drop, make the correct read, was the throw correct, etc., etc.
If all that stuff is sound, it should work against the higher skilled guys the same as it would against backups or 'fringe' players.
This.
Clifford looked good, but was it actually good, and what the staff was looking for?
Think his overall demeanor and response to adversity was the most impressive thing from Clifford. The growing pains and mistakes with young players are a given.
He looked good.
Thatâs all folks!
@michiganjoe posted:Think his overall demeanor and response to adversity was the most impressive thing from Clifford. The growing pains and mistakes with young players are a given.
He certainly bounced back well!
@Harry Manback posted:Point is, Clifford stood out against the competition at his level big time. The other point is, that kind of performance isn't normal for a rookie QB in his first game.
Clifford looked like a guy who is used to playing behind a suspect line and lacking real weapons like he did in college.
The other 1st round QB's looked like they didn't know what to do when they didn't have all day to throw to another blue chip WR.
The only thing I noticed from Clifford is he wants to throw everything hard. I'd like to see more passes that require touch to see if he can do that consistently. The biggest surprise this year with Love has been how well he can drop the ball into a space for his receiver (Doubs) to go get it with touch, in addition to dropping dimes down the field. Last year it seemed like he wanted to fire everything at one speed.
Dime machines drop dimes. It's what they do.
@Benzene posted:This is why I don't listen to pundits. They all thought Clifford was unworthy of a draft pick.
Re-read the Clifford thread. There's a lot of "pundits" here on x4 that thought it was a fine decision.
Why fight with another team to get a QB on the UDFA market, when you have 11 or 12 selections and like 4 or 5 in the last 2 rounds.
@Fandame posted:The only thing I noticed from Clifford is he wants to throw everything hard. I'd like to see more passes that require touch to see if he can do that consistently. The biggest surprise this year with Love has been how well he can drop the ball into a space for his receiver (Doubs) to go get it with touch, in addition to dropping dimes down the field. Last year it seemed like he wanted to fire everything at one speted.
Re: Clifford. I believe the first thing they worked on was improving his velocity. Very early days; he's played one game against NFL competition and is a work in progress.
Itâs weird people wanted to crush MVS for his inconsistency but dude was a 5th rounder, just like Clifford.
I was totally fine with the pick because if you do it enough eventually you will hit on a guy. Ron Wolf made a career drafting guys like that.
Now, if you are constantly burning up top 10 picks or even 2nd rounders (hello NY Jets) thatâs a different matter.
Penn State had some pretty decent skill players during Cliffordâs career as QB. Now, he didnât have Ohio State type weapons but other than Alabama and LSU few teams did.
I do think though thereâs something to vitafloâs point about a team like Ohio State - their 3rd or 4th WRs are likely better than any 1 DB they faced so easy for guys like Fields and Stroud to sit back and throw into wide open windows. Guys are rarely that wide open in the pros unless you have a Tyreke Hill or Jamar Chase on your team.
Itâs also clear that Jordan Loveâs anticipation and touch on passes is vastly improved from even a year ago. Tom Clements has probably helped.
@Tschmack posted:Itâs weird people wanted to crush MVS for his inconsistency but dude was a 5th rounder, just like Clifford.
Hundley was also a 5th round pick, so I went to see what I could find on the Packers preseason games from 2015.
Hundley did have a monster game in the 4th game with 4TD's which contained all players who didn't make the roster at all. Game 3 he had a bad INT when the TE fell on a route and Hundley did his best AR impression of throwing up his hands in disgust and the eye roll. Hundley's arm was much weaker than Clifford's and his pocket presence and feet weren't nearly as good either.
That was also the preseason where Jordy tore his ACL and Cobb had a shoulder injury. When the starters were playing (which back then looked like AR and crew started the first 3 preseason games), Adams looked horrible. Amazing how far that guy came.
@Fandame posted:The only thing I noticed from Clifford is he wants to throw everything hard. I'd like to see more passes that require touch to see if he can do that consistently. The biggest surprise this year with Love has been how well he can drop the ball into a space for his receiver (Doubs) to go get it with touch, in addition to dropping dimes down the field. Last year it seemed like he wanted to fire everything at one speed.
Iâve seen 3 long balls this preseason. 2 on family night to Doubs that were inaccurate and 1 vs Bengals to Watson that a single high safety was able to get over to and break up.
Tiny sample, but it contradicts this narrative that he is dropping deep balls with ease.
Edit - The TD to Watson on Family night was a great mid range ball.
Well, Clifford is in the Green Bay Quarterback School now.
@ammo posted:Are we seeing a new Tschmack here? Just yanking your chain a little here but that is the best post you have ever written.
He did say something about anti depressants, so maybe they're working.
Tschmack, I've always liked your posts, I've told you that.
Personally, I think it's the cloud that lifted when AR left. Everyone seems a little more cheery.
Clifford seems like a Matt Flynn type. Good enough to work within a system, good guy to play with, has the intangibles, but just lacks the upper end measurables to be a starting NFL QB. But for a 5th round pick, I'll take a Matt Flynn type. He appears to be good enough to keep you competitive for a 2-3 game stretch if the starter goes down for a few weeks.
@D J posted:He's a perfect *draft and develop* QB.
This. And about the competition he played against in his first NFL game - high draft pick rookie QB's were also playing against scrubs and didn't look nearly as good.
That the game doesn't seem to big for him gives me confidence he could come in for Love and at least give us a chance in a very intimidating circumstance.
@vitaflo posted:Hundley was also a 5th round pick, so I went to see what I could find on the Packers preseason games from 2015.
Hundley did have a monster game in the 4th game with 4TD's which contained all players who didn't make the roster at all. Game 3 he had a bad INT when the TE fell on a route and Hundley did his best AR impression of throwing up his hands in disgust and the eye roll. Hundley's arm was much weaker than Clifford's and his pocket presence and feet weren't nearly as good either.
That was also the preseason where Jordy tore his ACL and Cobb had a shoulder injury. When the starters were playing (which back then looked like AR and crew started the first 3 preseason games), Adams looked horrible. Amazing how far that guy came.
Adams was hurt that entire year. His ankle got twisted in early September and he reinjured it a few more times. He needed to sit for about 6 weeks, but the Packers receiving core was so bad that year, Adams at 50% was better than other options they had. By some metrics, Adams was the worst WR in football that year (9.7 yards per catch), but he couldn't push off that ankle at all and couldn't get any separation.
The other WRs after Jordy went down were Cobb (who became the 60 catch possession WR that year and never really got back to his Pro Bowl level from 2012-14), a washed-up James Jones who resigned after Jordy went down), Abbrederis, and Janis!. Rich Rod was the TE. A banged-up Adams, a washed-up Jones, Cobb, and Rich Rod might have been one of the slowest WR/TE starting groups in the NFL during the last decade. It's amazing that team won 10 games and were an OT period away from the NFC title game (they still should have gone for 2).
Clifford has that intangible "it" that you can't coach. He just knows he can get the job done, no false swagger, no "I'll try hard," no it's the other guy's fault. He just says, "Hold my beer. I've got this." Even if he fails or gets intercepted, he learns from it and then shrugs it off. That's a sign of toughness that a lot of guys, even starting QBs, just don't have. And as Harry M said, there were a lot of high draft picks to watch and they did not appear as confident and set as Clifford. Now, those higher draft picks may end up being far better QBs in the end as they adapt to the pro game because of their natural tallant, but I have a feeling Clifford is a guy you want not only as your backup, but in the QB room and probably as a coach in the future. Big projections, I know, but he just has a way about him that makes guys want to play well for him.
@MichiganPacker posted:Adams was hurt that entire year. His ankle got twisted in early September and he reinjured it a few more times. He needed to sit for about 6 weeks, but the Packers receiving core was so bad that year, Adams at 50% was better than other options they had. By some metrics, Adams was the worst WR in football that year (9.7 yards per catch), but he couldn't push off that ankle at all and couldn't get any separation.
Every now and then when I have to explain this to people who claim Adams sucked early on, I think maybe this will be the last time I have to do it. Maybe I need to give it a rest. But here we are.
Hundley led the entire league in the 2015 preseason with a 129.7 QB rating. Really liked what I saw from Clifford the other night but let's not get carried away.
I do not recall that sobering piece of irony.
Thankfully Clifford isn't leading in the QB ratings.
@MichiganPacker posted:Clifford seems like a Matt Flynn type. Good enough to work within a system, good guy to play with, has the intangibles, but just lacks the upper end measurables to be a starting NFL QB. But for a 5th round pick, I'll take a Matt Flynn type. He appears to be good enough to keep you competitive for a 2-3 game stretch if the starter goes down for a few weeks.
You only want Matt Flynn because of his hot girlfriend. 
@michiganjoe posted:Hundley led the entire league in the 2015 preseason with a 129.7 QB rating. Really liked what I saw from Clifford the other night but let's not get carried away.
This is why you don't draw conclusions from pre-season play. The 0-16 Lions from 2008 famously went undefeated in the pre-season.
@michiganjoe posted:Hundley led the entire league in the 2015 preseason with a 129.7 QB rating. Really liked what I saw from Clifford the other night but let's not get carried away.
That's basically what we do here.
In a 100 or 200 years, future historians will be puzzled, if not amazed, when they discover recordings and writings of Skip Bayliss.
World-wide conferences will be held, investigations will be made, and it will ultimately come down to settling 2 questions...
"Was this asshole for real?"
and
"Why were humans subjected to his madness?"
Skip may be the guy behind all this AI stuff. He can claim it was all computer generated.
Skip the Dip.
@Timmy! posted:In a 100 or 200 years, future historians will be puzzled, if not amazed, when they discover recordings and writings of Skip Bayliss.
World-wide conferences will be held, investigations will be made, and it will ultimately come down to settling 2 questions...
"Was this asshole for real?"
and
"Why were humans subjected to his madness?"
Bigger question is how so many humans gave him enough attention to allow him to become what he is.