+ / -

+  Came out of the game as healthy as they were going in.

-  Could have used some of the inactive/injured.

McCarthy on Brett Hundley: I feel the same way today as I did going into the week. I know this young man & I believe in him.

— Green Bay Packers (@packers) October 23, 2017

McCarthy on Hundley: Have to look at opportunities. He will do better. His issues were more in time clock, timing. We'll be better next time

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) October 23, 2017

McCarthy: Hundley wasn't given a lot of opportunities. Maybe if defense gets off field a few more times he has more opportunities.

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) October 23, 2017

McCarthy: We need to be more creative. We have to fit the time clock to the perimeter. Nelson, Adams, Cobb have to touch the ball.

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) October 23, 2017

McCarthy: Injury had an impact on the 10-men on the field play.

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) October 23, 2017

Mike McCarthy on the Packers having only 10 men on the field for Mark Ingram's TD run: "The communication was... https://t.co/Ow5j0sQ3J4

— Rob Demovsky (@RobDemovsky) October 23, 2017

Followed up that Burnett out factors in the communication.

Such BS...

Hey Mike. Perhaps if your defense had, you know....11 guys ON the field, maybe they would actually get off it.

Super Bowl aspirations completely shot to $hit & MM won't do an effing thing about it because the defense & ST's are a steaming pile of dog crap. His offense ain't much better either other than the running game & he no longer has Superman to bail his ass out.

"We do what we do!"

Rationalizing and enabling. 

Bring in Dr. Phil.

I'm not ready to completely write off Hundley.  I don't think MM did him any favors.  He had the running game going but I don't recall seeing very much play action run off it.  There was some, but it sure seemed like they should have had more opportunities for the passing game.  I think MM coached and called the game trying not to lose rather than trying to win.

I honestly can't tell if Hundley is going to be any good.  I don't think MM let him really play, and if he did, then MM really hasn't done much to develop him.  But the scheme certainly does not work for Hundley like it does for Rodgers because it certainly appears like it depends on having Rodgers.

fightphoe93 posted:

To be fair, the Pack has had an incredible amount of injuries at the tackle position and I don't think there is a GM out there that wouldn't struggle to fill a tackle spot when the first 4 tackles on the depth chart go down.   Lane Taylor was only forced to play tackle when 4 other guys went down and then he got hurt which forced them to go to their 6th option.  I don't know how many GMs keep 5 tackles, but I think even a team like New England would struggle to figure out what to do if they lost their top 4 OTs.  

TT went into the season with one true back-up tackle - Spriggs - who stunk for the entire pre-season. Barclay and Murphy are not NFL tackles. Murphy's best position in the NFL is guard and Barclay's is Center. 

So while its technically correct that their tackle "depth" was decimated by injury, it was grossly negligent of TT to have rostered tackle depth that featured only one one true tackle in Spriggs who not only hasn't developed but was actively regressing throughout the summer. That's on TT. When he saw how poorly Spriggs looked over the summer it was on him to make a trade or find a back-up who's natural position is tackle. Shocker, he didn't do it, and that's why they were forced to play guys way out of position at the start of the season.

Rockin' Robin posted:

Does anyone subscribe to McGinn's new website? His headline pinned this on the coaches and was curious to hear what he wrote.

What's plaguing this team is the same thing that has happened in recent years:

1) The defensive system stinks. Yes, TT has missed on picks and there have been injuries. But any veteran good QB can just carve them up at will. 

2) The offensive system is completely predictable. MM deserves credit for developing 12 into an elite QB. But it's clear that MM cannot scheme anyone open. 12 does it himself by extending plays and rifling balls into the smallest of windows. Not a surprise that Hundley can't do the same. When NE was without Brady, that team managed to scheme guys open for back-up QBs. MM can't do it.

3) Not a factor in this game b/c tackles finally played entire game, but TT is the only GM in the league who sits on his hands and watches guards try to play tackle despite having the most valuable QB in the league back there.

This is the downside of not having an owner. TT, MM, Capers - they all need to go. They deserve praise for bringing a trophy to GB. But their act is beyond stale. It's time to move on and get a GM like Dorsey who will inject athleticism and talent through all possible channels and coaches who have the creativity to adjust and allow all players to succeed, not just the ones who are best in the league. Will be an interesting off-season. Murphy has his standard excuse (injuries) to not make changes.

It is a superb article which pretty much summed up the complete disaster the coaching staff was yesterday.  10 man defense on TD.  Good description of what seemed to be happening during the wasted timeouts.  Really went after the coaches for having Fackrell, Odom and Dial in the game when the Saints gained possession of the ball with 4:20 left (meaning Matthews, Perry and Daniels were all on the bench to start the drive).  Lots of other good stuff in it.  I'd recommend getting a subscription.  The weekly "grading the team" articles are worth the price of admission alone.

fightphoe93 posted:

GBFanForLife posted:

It sure is a good thing they didn't have the internet in the 70's and 80's.

I think a 20 page thread on the positives and negatives of Paul Ott Carruth would have been quite entertaining. 

Others that might have competed with "should they have gone for 2" for the most pages of posts.

1. Ezra Johnson's hot dog eating

2. Dan Devine's dog

3. James Lofton's incident at the Top Shelf night club

4. Eddie Lee Ivery's (and Lofton's?) incident with the exotic dancer in Milwaukee

5. All the starting QBs except Lynn Dickey: Wright, Dilweg, Kiel, Tomczak, Rich Campbell, Jerry Tagge, Soctt Hunter, Whitehurst...

6. I didn't mention John Hadl in #5 because that would have been an epic thread beyond almost anything else.

7. Starr overruling his entire scouting staff to draft Rich Campbell instead of Ronnie Lott

8. Mossy Cade

9. Charles Martin's body slam of Jim McMahon.

10. Any one of the dozens of cheap shots by Ken Stills

11. Tim Lewis' career ending injury

12. Ivery's torn ACLs on the ****ty turf at Soldier Fiweld

13. Any of Dickey's injuries

14. Brent Fullwood's Wonderlic test

Morgan Burnett never hid the fact that it took him years to learn the defense. So they slap a green dot on someone’s  helmet then wonder why 10 guys keep ending up on the field. 

Dom and his NASCAR and Elephant and Psycho and Nitro and Wizardry and bull**** schemes with infinite player personnel adjustments. 

Halfway through the 1st quarter. 2nd and 6. Josh Jones and Randall run off the field. Evans takes a step onto the field. Runs back off. Dial starts to come on then turns around and heads back off. I swear GB had 9 guys on the field when MM called time out. For **** sakes. These guys don’t even know who’s supposed to be on the ****ing field. So no, I don’t think there’s a snowballs chance in hell the guys know what they’re supposed to be doing once the ball is snapped. 

The communication problems on defense aren’t new. They’ve been around for years. The names on defense have changed but the problems haven’t. That’s coaching. It sucks. Dom sucks. And he needs to be effing fired. 

Hungry5 posted:

McCarthy: Hundley wasn't given a lot of opportunities. Maybe if defense gets off field a few more times he has more opportunities.

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) October 23, 2017

JHFC like getting two turnovers?  How does the defense get off the field when their only break is three miserably predictable plays?

Hungry5 posted:

McCarthy on Brett Hundley: I feel the same way today as I did going into the week. I know this young man & I believe in him.

— Green Bay Packers (@packers) October 23, 2017

McCarthy on Hundley: Have to look at opportunities. He will do better. His issues were more in time clock, timing. We'll be better next time

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) October 23, 2017

McCarthy: Hundley wasn't given a lot of opportunities. Maybe if defense gets off field a few more times he has more opportunities.

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) October 23, 2017

McCarthy: We need to be more creative. We have to fit the time clock to the perimeter. Nelson, Adams, Cobb have to touch the ball.

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) October 23, 2017

He has to prop up Hundley's confidence, but it sure didn't look like he believed in him yesterday. Nothing downfield at all and it looked like Hundley was scared to throw to his WRs. He's had three training camps - he should know the whole playbook, but the play calling was consistent with someone they only trusted to run simple stuff. He looked like the guy whose scouting report at draft time resulted in him being a 5th round pick. The biggest concern was that he would have a lot of trouble reading defenses and lacked the ability to anticipate when routes would open up (like Jordy's post pattern yesterday that he held the ball long enough for the free safety to get into the play).

PackerJoe posted:

 The weekly "grading the team" articles are worth the price of admission alone.

I always say that how can @PFF know the grades, if they don't know the answers to the test? https://t.co/FLUm6zQH8c

— Brady poppinga (@BradyPoppinga) October 8, 2017

ALL-22 is up. Based on what was visible. Adams was essentially open on every pass play yesterday. Cobb too. Nelson had a safety in the vicinity on nearly every pass play.

Hungry5 posted:

ALL-22 is up. Based on what was visible. Adams was essentially open on every pass play yesterday. Cobb too. Nelson had a safety in the vicinity on nearly every pass play.

And no coach on the sideline as the game is going on shows him that?

Late throws, early throws, wide throws, short throws. 

Looked like Hundley did not know the 3rd or 4th reads.

YATittle posted:

Hungry5 posted:

ALL-22 is up. Based on what was visible. Adams was essentially open on every pass play yesterday. Cobb too. Nelson had a safety in the vicinity on nearly every pass play.

And no coach on the sideline as the game is going on shows him that?

They probably did. The fear is that he just doesn't have the ability to make those reads. What are the coaches going to say - "we showed him these guys were open all the time, but he still couldn't see it at game speed?"

MichiganPacker posted:

YATittle posted:

Hungry5 posted:

ALL-22 is up. Based on what was visible. Adams was essentially open on every pass play yesterday. Cobb too. Nelson had a safety in the vicinity on nearly every pass play.

And no coach on the sideline as the game is going on shows him that?

They probably did. The fear is that he just doesn't have the ability to make those reads. What are the coaches going to say - "we showed him these guys were open all the time, but he still couldn't see it at game speed?"

Sounds plausible. Thanks.

YATittle posted:

Rationalizing and enabling. 

Bring in Dr. Phil.

MichiganPacker posted: 

1. Ezra Johnson's hot dog eating....

 

14. Brent Fullwood's Wonderlic test

 

 

15. Who did Chuck Cecil jack up?

Ron Middleton....among others

Hungry5 posted:

Late throws, early throws, wide throws, short throws. 

Timmy! posted:

MichiganPacker posted: 

1. Ezra Johnson's hot dog eating....

 

14. Brent Fullwood's Wonderlic test

 

 

15. Who did Chuck Cecil jack up?

16. Travis Jervy 's pet tiger.   I guess we could have AIM instant messaged about it or aol chat roomed.

SWM 40 - What's up with the tiger?

Maynard posted:

I'm not ready to completely write off Hundley.  I don't think MM did him any favors.  He had the running game going but I don't recall seeing very much play action run off it.  There was some, but it sure seemed like they should have had more opportunities for the passing game.  I think MM coached and called the game trying not to lose rather than trying to win.

I honestly can't tell if Hundley is going to be any good.  I don't think MM let him really play, and if he did, then MM really hasn't done much to develop him.  But the scheme certainly does not work for Hundley like it does for Rodgers because it certainly appears like it depends on having Rodgers.

Actually, Maynard, the scheme depends on otherworldly Rodgers (which he is capable of doing and usually does).  If you recall the "slump" for Rodgers from mid-2015 to mid-2016 where he wasn't playing at an uber-level, the team had a hard time winning (8-12 record).  I see such creativity and scheming to get WRs, TEs and RBs open from the likes of the Patriots, McVay with the Rams, Reid, Pederson with the Eagles and Payton.  Watching our guys run the same curls, hooks, verticals with DBs plastered all over them is old.

True, otherworldly Rodgers.  If he's "average" then things don't go as well.  But that's the point: if Rodgers isn't playing at his normal level, this offense has no way to adjust.  So unless we get a cloning device...

Why did we even sign Lance Kendricks? 6 receptions in 7 games.  If youa re not going to play him release or trade  him and get some OL or CB help. 

50k Club posted:

Maynard posted:

I'm not ready to completely write off Hundley.  I don't think MM did him any favors.  He had the running game going but I don't recall seeing very much play action run off it.  There was some, but it sure seemed like they should have had more opportunities for the passing game.  I think MM coached and called the game trying not to lose rather than trying to win.

I honestly can't tell if Hundley is going to be any good.  I don't think MM let him really play, and if he did, then MM really hasn't done much to develop him.  But the scheme certainly does not work for Hundley like it does for Rodgers because it certainly appears like it depends on having Rodgers.

Actually, Maynard, the scheme depends on otherworldly Rodgers (which he is capable of doing and usually does).  If you recall the "slump" for Rodgers from mid-2015 to mid-2016 where he wasn't playing at an uber-level, the team had a hard time winning (8-12 record).  I see such creativity and scheming to get WRs, TEs and RBs open from the likes of the Patriots, McVay with the Rams, Reid, Pederson with the Eagles and Payton.  Watching our guys run the same curls, hooks, verticals with DBs plastered all over them is old.

Indeed. I've always been the fan of MM's favorite play call - everyone go deep and no-one get open.

Maynard posted:

True, otherworldly Rodgers.  If he's "average" then things don't go as well.  But that's the point: if Rodgers isn't playing at his normal level, this offense has no way to adjust.  So unless we get a cloning device...

At this point, Rodgers playing left-handed is our best option.

Hungry5 posted:

ALL-22 is up. Based on what was visible. Adams was essentially open on every pass play yesterday. Cobb too. Nelson had a safety in the vicinity on nearly every pass play.

Wow.

We're screwed.  Three years and this??!!

I was hopeful before the game. As a young QB you're not going to get a better start to the game plus you're at Lambeau.

After the game, the All 22 doesn't lie.

Like I said, Sunday a real QB hangs 30-40 on the Saints, maybe more. Ours hung 87 yards passing. Yay....

phaedrus posted:

Hungry5 posted:

ALL-22 is up. Based on what was visible. Adams was essentially open on every pass play yesterday. Cobb too. Nelson had a safety in the vicinity on nearly every pass play.

Wow.

We're screwed.  Three years and this??!!

That was the most disappointing part of this. When Flynn came in (even after they signed him back off the street and he hadn't even been in training camp that year) they basically ran the same system and he could make all the reads. He knew he couldn't physically do some things Rodgers could, but the offense functioned pretty well. Hundley looked like he hadn't seen the playbook for more then a week. I was never in support of bringing in a guy like Kaepernik or trading for a Matt Cassel/Colt McCoy type because of the advantages Hundley's knowledge of the offense would bring. We didn't see any of those advantages. To me, he looked like how Vince Young would have looked a few years ago. He could take off on a few scrambles and throw dump downs and that's it.

At this point based on what we saw Sunday, IF (and that's a big if) you knew Rodgers would be coming back this year healthy in late December, it would be worth it to trade a mid-round pick to get a viable backup QB in here who could win a game or two more than Hundley. The NFC is wide open and we'd be the favorites with Rodgers, so let's go all out to sneak in at 9-7 and then see what Rodgers can do.

If Hundley comes out in two weeks and they call plays more like they would have for Matt Flynn in 2013, then the conversation changes. If not, we are screwed.

Not sure if McCarthy can "get this fixed". 

“Did you just listen to that question I just answered? I got three years invested in Brett Hundley. Two years invested in Joe Callahan. The quarterback room is exactly where it needs to be. OK? We’re fortunate to have a great quarterback in Aaron Rodgers. We’re committed to the path that we’re on. We need to play better as a football team.”

Hungry5 posted:

My gawd he threw early way too often. Hurried when there was not pressure (from what I saw), didn't wait until the WR hit his break. 

Big challenge for McCarthy going forward.

Hungry5 posted:

Looked like Hundley did not know the 3rd or 4th reads.

Hungry5 posted:

Late throws, early throws, wide throws, short throws. 

Hungry5 posted:

PackerJoe posted:

 The weekly "grading the team" articles are worth the price of admission alone.

I always say that how can @PFF know the grades, if they don't know the answers to the test? https://t.co/FLUm6zQH8c

— Brady poppinga (@BradyPoppinga) October 8, 2017

No ****ing ****.  PFF is a god damn joke.  

3 years in the system. What a ****ing joke. 

Brainwashed Boris posted:

3 years in the system. What a ****ing joke. 

Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

I have to believe a really competent QB coach can discern how well a QB can make progressions after three years, even if the QB lacks actual regular season game experience.

Everyone can determine a player's physical skill set.  It's all in the ability to perform progressions.

Is it possible none of the offensive coaches understand what Hundley's ability is with respect to making progressions?

I am sitting here with a whopper of a discrepancy.

Matt Moore comes in for the Dolphins & was good. Granted vs. The Jets but still did his job & led Miami to a come from behind victory. 

Hundley had a full week of practice with the 1's. A practice week MM said was the best of the season...even with Rodgers.

Uh huh....right Mike....riiiiiiiiiiight.

When you don't have a QB you need your defense & special teams to step up & make plays.

Anyone expecting THAT to happen?!?!

Tale of two halves. 

Matt Moore has been in the league for years. He is 33 years old. Has started games before. Hundley starts one game and people expect him to light it up. The whole 2nd half was a debacle. They were lucky to be up 14-7. Interceptions by the defense were deep and didn't provide the offense any advantage. Defense needed to make plays in the 2nd half and it didn't happen.

So explain to me how Hundley came in cold against a better Vikings D and looked better than he did against a pretty average NO defense?  I think MM outsmarted himself again.