Bye bye Cheaty Petey! +/- Divisional Win over Seattle

CUPackFan posted:

 

Negatives: 

Martinez.  It's time to move on.  He blew that 3rd and 6, spying Wilson for a bit then runs up the wrong lane, leaving Wilson to run for 20+ yards.  Just painful to watch b/c you know what's going to happen and he still did it.  I was a big fan in his first and second years but he's just not worth big money he'll probably demand in free agency.  He's the guy you draft and let play, then let walk before overpaying.  

Paging  Pakrz!!!  Please pick up the courtesy phone in the lobby. 

Blair Kiel posted:

DH13 posted:

Kiel's adjusting to life in Utah.  Or whatever country he retired to.

You try being nagged by 3 wives....

And don't forget the 3 mother-in-laws, unless married 3 sisters, Blair:-)

Timpranillo posted:

Blair Kiel posted:

MAYBE I’LL JUST KICK YOU IN THE ASS.

Pffft, you were a goalie because you couldn't get your leg that high when you were 15, let alone now. 

Seriously my ass isn’t that far off the ground

Let’s just have a beer, then.

Or a box of wine.

justanotherpackerfan posted:

I bet PackerHawk has a sore throat after going “Whoop” or “Whooo” or whatever through the entire game.

Hehe. That guy must have been on the other side of the stadium. Never heard him once. 

Davante Adams has evidently found the “additional footage.” pic.twitter.com/trnGK7R1cO

— Andrew Siciliano (@AndrewSiciliano) January 13, 2020

Martinez.  It's time to move on.  He blew that 3rd and 6, spying Wilson for a bit then runs up the wrong lane, leaving Wilson to run for 20+ yards.  Just painful to watch b/c you know what's going to happen and he still did it.  I was a big fan in his first and second years but he's just not worth big money he'll probably demand in free agency.  He's the guy you draft and let play, then let walk before overpaying.  

This! I remember yelling at the TV on the play and one of Blark's biggest flaws is his unerring tendency to run through the wrong gap, and on that play when he decides to rush he runs right into other people instead of the large gap to his right that Wilson ran through for a big game. If he meets him there, nothing happens.

DON"T OVERPAY HIM! He's no Brad Jones or A.J. Hawk.

What would be over-paying for Martinez?

Anything over $4 million a year. I've read he wants $8 million. He's JAG

Where did you read that? X4?

I guess you didn't see the play where he stopped Lynch cold. Stood him up and Lynch just went backward.  Not too many guys can do that.  Led the team in tackles again too.   I'd say he was impressive. 

GBFanForLife posted:

Where did you read that? X4?

Here's an interesting link.

https://overthecap.com/player/blake-martinez/4844/

Says he's worth almost $9 million on the market.

https://www.acmepackingcompany...st-estimate-ballpark

You said "he wants"

Yes, read it elsewhere, can't find it.

Or made it up. 

I seriously have no clue what game some fans are watching sometimes.  BLARK! couldn't stop Wilson from scrambling.  Boy, no other team has had that problem.

I don't think Gergenzerla would tie that much up in a MLB when there are other needs, like WR, on this team.  4 million a year is a joke in these days.  I'd pay him 6 over 3 or 4 years.  Just give him a big chunk in a signing bonus or some other cappery magic that doesn't tie up the cap and go get some more MLB, TE and WR talent.

For his production, tackles 5 yards downfield is an over rated stat, we are way better off paying a rookie salary and diverting the money elsewhere.    If there is a FA available at ILB that is worth that coin, fine.   But paying Blake big coin for making a tackle 5 yards deep or sitting in a zone and making a tackle after the TE caught the ball past the sticks is not money well spent.

There is not a ton of difference between him and Goodson when it comes to pass coverage.   He is simply not worth a 2nd contract. 

If they can pick up solid LB talent considering where they'll be picking I'm all for it.  Maybe Goop makes a move in the draft.  I would have zero problem drafting a legit LB in the first round.

$9M isn't that ridiculous of a contract for Martinez honestly. That would put him on par with Anthony Hitchens and Don'ta Hightower in terms of per year value. I don't think it's unreasonable to say he's in their ballpark. That's well behind the $10M-$18M per year average of guys like Kendricks, McKinney, Kuechly and on up to Mosley and Wagner. I'm not a huge believer in Martinez, but if they paid him <$9M per year on a ~4 year deal with options to get out after 2 years with minimal damage then I wouldn't be pissed. He shouldn't be paid like an elite player, but he's definitely better than any schmuck we've rolled through here since Des Bishop. 

I look at it like this: David Harris was in a similar boat 2007-2008 with the NYJ. He was good, not great in Mangini's scheme. Then Rex Ryan/Mike Pettine came in 2009 and brought Bart Scott with them, that pairing of Harris/Scott was really good and made both the whole defense better. 

Yeah....We need our "Bart Scott"

https://www.packersnews.com/st...o-sunday/4441040002/

Excerpt: 

Chandon Sullivan knew he had the football.

The fact wasn’t lost on him after the Packers’ win Sunday. Even then, Sullivan continued thinking about the recovered fumble that wasn’t, a play that could have embarrassed a league whose 2019 season has been marked by shoddy officiating.

The Seahawks’ opening drive should have ended early. Cornerback Jaire Alexander upended Seahawks tight end Jacob Hollister, forcing a fumble. Sullivan eventually recovered the football.

“So it was on the ground,” Sullivan said, “I seen it. I tried to grab it. I missed it at first, and then I tried to grab it. And then I cradled it. Nobody else had it. It was me. And everybody is trying to take it, but they couldn’t. So then when they broke the pile, I’m at the bottom giving the ball to the ref.”

The issue wasn’t that the officials missed the call live. Missed calls on bang-bang plays happen. The problem was they didn’t continue the play through the turnover. Any turnover is automatically reviewed, meaning Hollister could have been ruled down after the fact.

Instead, Packers coach Matt LaFleur was forced to use a challenge. Upon further review, it was determined Hollister indeed fumbled, but because there was no clear, immediate recovery, the Packers could not be awarded possession. Even though Sullivan had recovered the fumble.

The Packers, already leading 7-0, would have had possession at Seattle’s 41-yard line. Instead, the Seahawks kept the football. They punted when their drive ended, giving possession back to the Packers at Green Bay’s 11-yard line, a difference of 50 yards in field position.

“They robbed me,” Sullivan said. “That was terrible.”

You gotta either draft a potential stud or pay Schobert, Littleton or Martinez.  It's not like GB has somebody waiting in the wings.  

https://www.packers.com/video/...fc-championship-game

Relive the game via Lego highlights. Put a smile on my face with Wayne & Larry commentating. 

That additional footage clearly showed Graham crossed the yellow line.

Pakrz posted:

You gotta either draft a potential stud or pay Schobert, Littleton or Martinez.  It's not like GB has somebody waiting in the wings.  

And now with Kuechly out of the picture all free agent  MLB value just went up. 

The question isn’t so much should the Packers resign Martinez, but for how much?  

I agree with Grave Digger in that if you can extend him for a reasonable contract it’s in their best interests to do so.   The problem is unrestricted free agents have a lot of leverage because all it takes is one team to show interest and drive up the price. 

The other thing to consider is if you are going to pay Martinez you will need to free up cash somewhere so perhaps that means Linsley and Graham are at risk.  Perhaps they should be anyway given their value and performance.  

Graham's gone.  Or at least his salary is.

YATittle posted:

https://www.acmepackingcompany...st-estimate-ballpark

I think Martinez's future depends on who Gute drafts. Burks and Summers have not stood out, so far and that means Martinez really had no help. I think if Gute drafts a top ILB our defense may take a different form, especially if ABM can draw up looks and schemes that feature two solid LBs inside. Draft an ILB that can complement Martinez, then the two can create havoc on the other side of the LOS.

CUPackFan posted:

Positives:

Rodgers was amazing.  He's not going to put up the raw numbers he used in this offense but he's played great last night.  

Clark and the Smith Bros. were studs!!  Tough to see Wilson avoid the pressures and run for 60+ yards but he does that to everyone.  

Adams is a top 5 WR.  I remember being so down on him his sophomore year but he's among the best.  

Gute: Picking up Veldheer as a damn good move.  Not sure they win without him yesterday.  

Negatives: 

Martinez.  It's time to move on.  He blew that 3rd and 6, spying Wilson for a bit then runs up the wrong lane, leaving Wilson to run for 20+ yards.  Just painful to watch b/c you know what's going to happen and he still did it.  I was a big fan in his first and second years but he's just not worth big money he'll probably demand in free agency.  He's the guy you draft and let play, then let walk before overpaying.  

I saw a video of all the completions Rodgers threw to Adams. Every one was right in his hands. That was a different Rodgers from a few weeks ago. Also gave me the warm fuzzies to see  a #87 on the field again.

mrtundra posted:

YATittle posted:

https://www.acmepackingcompany...st-estimate-ballpark

I think Martinez's future depends on who Gute drafts. Burks and Summers have not stood out, so far and that means Martinez really had no help. I think if Gute drafts a top ILB our defense may take a different form, especially if ABM can draw up looks and schemes that feature two solid LBs inside. Draft an ILB that can complement Martinez, then the two can create havoc on the other side of the LOS.

I don't think ABM wants to play a traditional 3-4 with 2 ILB's.   He's said that priority 1 is stopping the pass.     I also disagree with the "if Martinez has help" argument.   If he has Urlacher next to him instead of Sullivan or Campbell, is he suddenly going to be able to cover a crossing route with more effectiveness?  No.   He has all the help he needs in the run game and the Help goes by the name of Kenny Clark. 

Obviously not easy to find, but I think this D is one dynamic ILB with play making ability and maybe one more solid DE away from being really good.   

Yup, Pettine's D does not typically have 2 ILB's next to each other where one is the thumper and one is the space/coverage guy.  He uses 1 ILB and a variety of combo's with Sullivan and whichever DB he wants to show or bluff as filling in the box.  It doesn't need Martinez + dynamicILB, it needs 1 dynamicILB + the variety of looks he likes to give with other DB's.

BrainDed posted:

mrtundra posted:

YATittle posted:

https://www.acmepackingcompany...st-estimate-ballpark

I think Martinez's future depends on who Gute drafts. Burks and Summers have not stood out, so far and that means Martinez really had no help. I think if Gute drafts a top ILB our defense may take a different form, especially if ABM can draw up looks and schemes that feature two solid LBs inside. Draft an ILB that can complement Martinez, then the two can create havoc on the other side of the LOS.

I don't think ABM wants to play a traditional 3-4 with 2 ILB's.   He's said that priority 1 is stopping the pass.     I also disagree with the "if Martinez has help" argument.   If he has Urlacher next to him instead of Sullivan or Campbell, is he suddenly going to be able to cover a crossing route with more effectiveness?  No. 

 

 

1) Depth.  There is zero people behind BLARK!.  That doesn't mean you do some desperate contract by any means but there is 100% a place for BLARK! and at minimum it's in a steady rotation.

2) BLARK! won't be covering pass routes as often as he is now.  That was the whole point in drafting Burks who is invisible.

I'm fine with Martinez being a 2 down backer with a modest price tag and bringing in a 3rd down dime backer.   

But that's not what the future looks like and that's not how ABM is playing it now.   I envision Martinez asking for top 10 ILB coin because of his tackle numbers.  I hope he gets because he seems like a good kid, I just hope it't not the GBP who pay it.   The coin could be better utilized elsewhere. 

I agree you don't pay him top ten coin.  That said, both you and DH13 mentioned how ABM likes to scheme.  No reason to believe a young, highly mobile ILB and BLARK wouldn't be trading off in 1 ILB looks in different situations.  See what you get in the draft before making decisions on BLARK's contract.

If they can draft some monster ILB like Roquan Smith, which is highly unlikely, then keep guys like Goodson and mid-tier dudes for rotation.

BrainDed posted:

I don't think ABM wants to play a traditional 3-4 with 2 ILB's.   He's said that priority 1 is stopping the pass.     I also disagree with the "if Martinez has help" argument.   If he has Urlacher next to him instead of Sullivan or Campbell, is he suddenly going to be able to cover a crossing route with more effectiveness?  No.   He has all the help he needs in the run game and the Help goes by the name of Kenny Clark. 

Obviously not easy to find, but I think this D is one dynamic ILB with play making ability and maybe one more solid DE away from being really good.   

You're oversimplifying the position he plays and what his skillset is best suited to. The 2 ILBs in a 34 don't play the same position, Martinez is a classic 3-4 Mike LB, who are generally asked to occupy blockers and fill running lanes and not a lot more. They're grinders who keep Will LB's clean. Right now, because they lack a true Will LB and depth at CB, they're playing more Nickel and asking Martinez to essentially play the role of  4-3 Mike LB, who generally are asked to cover players out of the backfield and play more Zone coverage in addition to filling running lanes and keeping blockers off Will LBs (like Urlacher, Wagner, Kuechly, Derrick Brooks, etc.). Having a true Will LB in there rather than a low DB will 1) divide the field in half reducing the amount of ground he has to cover 2) reduce the amount of time he spends covering anyone but maybe a FB 1on1 and 3) allow him to play downhill instead of sideline to sideline. He will be a dramatically improved player if we get that player next to him. 

I think you're dead wrong that ABM doesn't want to play a traditional 3-4, I think he would like to play 7 in the box and cover 2 a significant amount of time...to do that though you need a Will LB and you need CBs you can trust 1on1 pretty frequently. That's what he did with NYJ and Buffalo when he had guys like Revis, Bart Scott, Alonso, Joe Haden, Stephon Gilmore, etc. It's the recipe for success for SO MANY great defenses, including this year's 49er defense. He's forced to play Nickel and Dime a significant amount of time in GB and rely heavily on the front 4 to control the LOS and stuff the run.