@michiganjoe posted:Probably need to bring in some serious competition for him next camp. Gutey's fifth round choice at this point doesn't appear to be such a shrewd move.
Completely agree. I don't trust Opie at all. When the chips are down and the Pack needs a huge punt to flip the field, I don't think he's the guy to do it. He may be able to do it in practice and tantalize everyone with his potential, but when the pressure is really on, I think he's ordinary at best.
Just mental mistakes. Gute decided to ride with young talent at receiver and poor depth at DL and these are those key games where blowing those decisions is really magnified.
+
7-3 and still in contention for the bye! Probably win the division! 12-4 seems likely! Heck, the NFC doesn't look that daunting this year. Saints are always a tough out, but we seem to play them as well as anyone. TB might be this year's kryptonite like SF was last year, but I don't know that I'm ready to go there yet. 13-3 last year! 3 NFCC appearances in 6 years. Playoffs 8 of 10 years! How can anyone be pissed?! A Lion fan would murder their children for that!
-
This franchise has been fine generally sitting on their hands and watching AR cover up all the worts and issues on this team. They rarely go with a "let's try to materially get better at this obvious weak spot" move, let alone anything resembling "go all in"
But, because AR provides cover for the GM, front office, and coach - doing nothing is almost always enough!
Whether it's half assed coaching, an abomination of a defense seemingly every year, a decade+ of completely ignoring the ILB position, being allergic to spending any real resources on drafting or signing a WR, or trotting out guys on the starting DL that are at best mediocre depth for any defense worth a damn...
AR is the disinfectant that covers up a lot of odors coming out of 1265. When healthy, an AR led Packers team will almost always win the trash NFC North. They will win at least 1 playoff game more often than not. They will be in contention for the NFCC often enough that a lot of fanbases would kill for that. But those issues are always there and when push comes to shove, those issues are exposed clearly.
But that's good enough for an executive leadership that (cynically but I mean come on) frankly seems more concerned with the real estate developments of the franchise than doing everything to win a championship in the dwindling window of having the best QB in the game.
I know it’s convenient to blame MVS for the loss, and he should get a lot. Fumbling the ball away is inexcusable.
But this one is on the coaching staff. One example:
- the Packers on 4th down with the game on the line had Williams in there running a flat pass and not Jones. Your best weapon out of the backfield on the sideline? Stupid.
- the soft coverage all game long was unthinkable. One example: 3rd and 20 on defense and they go soft coverage, allowing 16 yards and putting them in FG range. But you let Rivers sit back there with time and you’re not attacking his main weakness- he can’t move. But they didn’t go after him, and he made them pay.
Pressure is the equalizer. They let Rivers beat them. They didn’t have to.
Jenkins moving to center was seamless. Runyon looks like he can play. Offensive line fir future looks really good.
We've been so damn lucky/fortunate with almost 30 straight years of HOF QB play that it's almost unbelievable. (Looking at you Bears.) For a league that's primarily QB driven, the sad part is that we really don't have shit to show for it. (I do realize a lot of teams would kill for 2 Lombardi's during that time.) Anything can happen, but unfortunately the odds are against that streak continuing for much longer.
+
I love the offensive line - especially Elgton Jenkins. Adam Stenavich must be a fantastic coach. That was a really good Colts defense and with a bit better play calling in the third quarter (RTFB and keep the shitty Packers defense off the field), the Pack would have won the game. Losing Linsley and inserting Runyan didn't miss a beat (foreshadows the Linsley FA decision). Lucas Patrick has filled in great for Lane Taylor all year. Billy Turner has stabilized losing Bulaga in FA and even helped bridge losing Bakh for multiple games. Hell, even Rick Wagner has been somewhat competent when asked to play.
-
Pettine has lost all credibility and Preston Smith is an easy cap casualty once the new season officially starts. Actually the entire DL deserves to get walking papers (except for Kenny Clark - this year, his cap hit doesn't happen until 2022). Next year's draft is easy - two WRs, two DL, two CB, one ILB, one OLB, and a center (I think the Pack will have at least 9 picks next year after considering compensatory picks).
Is there anyone on our defense that keeps an offensive coordinator up nights? Anyone that needs to be accounted for on every snap? K.C. maybe? Maybe.
@Timpranillo posted:But that's good enough for an executive leadership that (cynically but I mean come on) frankly seems more concerned with the real estate developments of the franchise than doing everything to win a championship in the dwindling window of having the best QB in the game.
I agree with this. I think Mark Murphy is not the leader this team needs right now, but it seems to go beyond that. The board must have the courage to dedicate the resources to maximizing on-field results.
I get that creative revenue streams are necessary for the future viability of this uniquely positioned franchise, and that the emphasis on real estate development helps to that end. Murphy has been the kind of guy that has been able to help that happen, but when it comes to building a true CHAMPIONSHIP team, he is more knowledgeable about the money making than getting the front office personnel for the job and having the most effective structure in place for success.
I liken this to “The Godfather”. Tom Hagen was a great and trusted consigliere during times of peace, but when Don Corleone was wanting a wartime consigliere, he needed to look elsewhere. The real estate projects, the coalition of businesses operating on GBP property, the stadium renovations, all good things that happened during Murphy’s tenure, but the focus must now shift to winning, and nothing but.
Now that we approach the end of the Favre/Rodgers era of legendary quarterbacking, we need a leader who will find the best GM that money can buy, and know that this person will get the job done with no micromanagement. The current configuration of power seems like an amateur operation. Is Gutekunst as inept as he appears, or is he hamstrung by Murphy, who is beholden to the board? The revenue-creating infrastructure is now in place, it is time to focus completely on a commitment to winning, because the challenge is about to become infinitely more difficult as Rodgers is phased out. Our golden age of amazing QBs is about to end.
@lovepack posted:Is there anyone on our defense that keeps an offensive coordinator up nights? Anyone that needs to be accounted for on every snap? K.C. maybe? Maybe.
Don't throw at Jaire Alexander. That's what's most amazing. They have an absolute lockdown corner that basically takes away half the field and they still can't stop anyone.
The MVS fumble was not the reason these Packers lost the game. Way too easy to cherry pick that and overlook the same damn glaring defeciencies going on with this team for years and years.
Death threats? Beyond ridiculous.
Hard to win when you turn the ball over 4 times.
Pettine is just a bad DC. There are definitely some talent deficiencies, but some of the scheme calls are incompetent ... and being repeated week after week. Can’t even cover basic crossing routes, Preston in coverage, Lowry constantly used as the DT in a 2 man front, off coverage on 3rd and long, Deep zone on running downs, etc..
Great strategy by the Colts to force the Packers to return several KO’s. Especially when you have a mistake prone fringe roster guy with marginal speed returning. Shepard has had some brutal moments as a Packer.
Opie might be another missed draft pick. Too many ugly ones from him.
Such a great 1st half and then they come out an shit the bed in the 3rd quarter.
Offense scored 28 points in the 1st half and disappeared in the 2nd half...3 points at the very end of regulation.
Not sure when, but Pettine needs to go !!!
@Packy posted:
Biggest negative is this. Really, death threats...unbelievable and very sad.
That shit is inexcusable - You let me know if they're a member of https://t.co/LU779GPUjx -- I'll take it from there
— Boris at Timesfour (@x4_Packers) November 23, 2020
Disturbing.
Beyond the pale. Some real nutjobs out there.
Idk the personnel on that play, but you have an all world wideout and a pro bowl rb that know how to protect the ball. And the way Rodgers was able to pick and choose his spots, there's no reason to call such a stupid play from your own 30. MVS was at a disadvantage the moment that play was designated to go to him. It was a terrible fumble, costly. But the best coaches put their guys in position to make plays. The fact that it was even an option in their own territory is highly suspect, especially in ot and especially with a guy who wasn't on the same page as AR previously in the game. The game was on the line, MLF should know that, and put the ball in the hands of ball handlers.
things tougher than the Packers
@RochNyFan posted:My only other complaint was spiking the ball when they picked up that last first down.
Entire clock management on that final drive is something they need to look at and apparently are.
Aaron Jones is an absolute must re-sign - F the salary cap -- He has 3 more great years left at a minimum
Head UP like a true warrior love you bro 🤞🏾😤💯@MVS__11 https://t.co/1GGFsAMfgk
— Aaron Jones 3️⃣3️⃣ (@Showtyme_33) November 23, 2020
@Pakrz posted:😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes... the fumbled snap for a turnover, the late throw to MVS that resulted in an INT and especially the 10-yard overthrow on 4th down on the last drive in the 4th quarter were special. Elite even.
Go 12. He's the best.
Emotionally driven bad take. My apologies to the offended parties.
Anyone else notice the body language on the sideline when the defense once again was crapping itself? MLF is yelling at them, Pettine has this blank "I don't know what to do" look on his face, Adams is pissed, and AR is just shaking his head.
The biggest negative to me is once again a big spotlight game the Packers find a way to lose. You can't turn over the ball to a team like the Colts and expect to win and you have to play something resembling defense as well. I don't know what to say anymore about the defense. There are a couple of good players on that side of the ball but it is so poorly schemed, poorly coached and soft its maddening.
Positives? Its on to Bears week! TBSS!!
+s
Game was entertaining and went to OT
-s
This team needs to visit Oz as it has
No heart (on D mostly),
No guts and gumption (look at the 4th down play by Indy, that is gutsy. Us not running the ball on 3rd and 1 and 3rd and half yard shows we have no guts to blow people off the line), and
No brains (how many off-sides and mental mistakes)
Without AR this team won't win 8 games a season
@lovepack posted:Is there anyone on our defense that keeps an offensive coordinator up nights? Anyone that needs to be accounted for on every snap? K.C. maybe? Maybe.
KC is constantly double teamed. There was a blip in JSO where he talked about it. Doesn't matter how good you are if you constantly have to beat 2 or more guys.
The backfield in general is pretty damn decent. It's just the middle of the front 7 is so bad they are essentially absorbing the ILB position as well. That's why you're seeing Greene making tackles around the line. There are some good blitzing safeties on this team but they aren't and often can't be utilized.
@Henry posted:It positively gave me the vapors! You cad!
Remember when I said all those people who declared “dagger” before there was an actual dagger could perform fellatio on me? While I appreciate the PM’s, it was a figure of speech.
/Gary still on two week reprieve/
Imagine how this team might look if there were three more contributors from the last two drafts? Did Dillon even play? ESB caught a ball, that was nice.
Shitty drafting and Pettine are what wastes another year.
Statistically, this is a middle of the road defense. The only teams in contention that are worse though are Seattle, Tennessee, Buffalo, and Vegas. This offense is very good. I agree with many of the thoughts in the above posts. I don't like our defensive scheme. Our special teams are a liability. However, I'm not ready to write off this year as another wasted season. With the remaining schedule, this team could possibly be 13-3/12-4 and still get the bye. There is a lot of football left to be played and if we get hot/healthy at the right time, who knows. As Thanksgiving approaches let us all be thankful that we are not the loins, bears, or Viqueens.
+ 1st half
- 2nd half / OT
Henry's "this defense is a dead end" could be the statement of the year.
The Packers still think they're a good team - Read what Rodgers said....
This might bug some fans, but the Packers still think they’re really good. They turned it over 4 times and still scored 31, losing in OT to a very good team. https://t.co/hHGjQuafk8
— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) November 23, 2020
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:/Gary still on two week reprieve/
Imagine how this team might look if there were three more contributors from the last two drafts? Did Dillon even play? ESB caught a ball, that was nice.
Shitty drafting and Pettine are what wastes another year.
You tend to get your best players from the top rounds of the draft, obviously. There is a reason they are drafted that high. ESB is a 6th rounder. MVS was a 5th rounder. They aren't really supposed to be franchise cornerstones.
Love, Dillon, and DeGuara as a result of rounds 1-4 this year is something that will haunt the franchise for years if they come up short again this year or if Love doesn't turn out to be a superstar. If they go on a run this year or next or if Love turns out to be a mini-Mahomes it was a good decision. If not, Gutey should be gone in 4-5 years.
@The Heckler posted:Anyone else notice the body language on the sideline when the defense once again was crapping itself? MLF is yelling at them, Pettine has this blank "I don't know what to do" look on his face, Adams is pissed, and AR is just shaking his head.
I didn't hear about that, but if true and MLF is yelling at the defense, good!
Someone or something needs to light a fire in their ass.
I think this sums it up perfectly
+++ ESB caught a pass and tried to make the most of it. Our 1st half was decent. Elgton Jenkins is a phenomenal player. The Packers O Line is the best part of this team. A patchwork quilt of players, playing multiple positions, who gelled to become the best unit on this team. Now lets get players who can help our Defense to come together. Rodgers moved us down the field, and put us in a position to win, in that 2 minute drill, at the end of regulation. Everyone in the NFC North lost, today, except for the Bears, who had a bye. We get the Bears next Sunday night.
--- Our 2nd half sucked! We needed a TD to win the game in that 2 minute drill. Turnovers and stupid penalties killed us. Once again, Pettine had Preston Smith covering a Colts' WR. That is ridiculous! I had to stream this game. We had to try several streams, as each stream lost sound and picture, a few minutes into the stream. I could tell that this was not going to be a good day for the Pack, nor for my nerves. Oh well!
- Rodgers yukking it up with Rivers after the game. I prefer garbage can throwing guys after a loss. Sometimes it appears we take this stuff more seriously than the players. I know deep down that he took the loss hard and is a fierce competitor but instead of laughing with Phil how about screaming at Pettine.
@artis posted:Idk the personnel on that play, but you have an all world wideout and a pro bowl rb that know how to protect the ball. And the way Rodgers was able to pick and choose his spots, there's no reason to call such a stupid play from your own 30. MVS was at a disadvantage the moment that play was designated to go to him. It was a terrible fumble, costly. But the best coaches put their guys in position to make plays. The fact that it was even an option in their own territory is highly suspect, especially in ot and especially with a guy who wasn't on the same page as AR previously in the game. The game was on the line, MLF should know that, and put the ball in the hands of ball handlers.
What makes it worse was that it was 2nd and 2. Maybe you call that play if it's 2nd and long and you need to take a chance to get back to 3rd and manageable. You have Aaron Jones in the game - run the ball and pick up the 1st down twice and keep their defense on its heels.
The 4th and 1 play in the 4th quarter (and the two 3rd and shorts in the 3rd quarter) were also poor decisions schematically. I've always hated the shotgun on 3rd/4th and short because it takes away the best part of your playbook in that situation - play action. That scheme may even make sense if you are the 2010-11 Packers and you can spread the field with Nelson, Jones, Jennings, Driver, Finley, and Cobb to get the best 1 x 1 matchup. But are you really going to be at an advantage spreading out Shepard, ESB, and Malik Taylor as some of your options? If you are going to pass, play-action keeps the DEs from firing off the ball and the LBs from getting depth on their drops. The only running play possible is a draw and that's a high-risk play that's almost as likely to result in a 5 yard loss as a long gainer.
The other thing about the OT play is that MVS cut toward the middle of the field and didn't protect the ball. Watching it live, I was thinking maybe this will work well because I thought he was going to run toward the sideline and pick up an easy 4-5 yards and the first down. It's a different discussion if MVS was supposed to take that wide (or just put two hands on the ball and run straight forward). Has anyone seen if they commented on that's how that was designed (or maybe it's just throw him the ball and let him decide?)
@Pikes Peak posted:- Rodgers yukking it up with Rivers after the game. I prefer garbage can throwing guys after a loss. Sometimes it appears we take this stuff more seriously than the players. I know deep down that he took the loss hard and is a fierce competitor but instead of laughing with Phil how about screaming at Pettine.
That stuff is better handled in the locker room.
There's always been a different standard for Rodgers too. If Tom Brady screams at someone on the field, he's "being a leader." If Rodgers does the same thing, he's "difficult and a poor teammate."
I don't have any concerns about Rodgers not having competitive fire. For all we know, he could have been laughing with Rivers about how bad our defense is and saying that "I can't believe how fukking awful our defense is. I wish I could play against them - I'd put up 500 yards and 6 TDs."
