Henry posted:I had to check and see if this was a 50 Drunk Naglers column. WR on trade? If TT can pull that off I'd be amazed. Just make it Adams.
Please make it so.
Grave Digger posted:Satori posted:"Ace" ST guys don't grow on trees. There are tall players and there are fast players. But there aren't many that are Tall and Fast and available. Look at the Packers roster right now:
Geronimo is tall and T. Davis is fast, but neither are both. Davis is too puny to play gunner and Geronimo is too slow to get there first.
Janis is goldilocks....just right
I agree that's he's a really good ST player, maybe even elite, but does his ST only skill really trump potential contributions we could get from Allison/Davis at WR? ...
Easy question. Yes!
The Q&A for me with Janis is not other WRs, but other STs who can contribute elsewhere.
Accountable and Available.
Running poor routes and being injured is no way to make the 53 in GB. - Dean Vernon Wormer
My roster:
QB (2): Rodgers and Hundley - depends on Hundley's health but sounds like he'll be ready for regular season.
RB (4): Lacy, Starks, Burks, Ripkowski - #3 RB will depend on pass pro. I like Burks better than Ross but can't say who is better in pass pro.
OL (9): Bakhtiari, Sitton, Tretter, Lang, Bulaga, Spriggs, Murphy, Taylor and Barclay/Walker (Linsley on PUP) - last spot is between Barclay and Walker. I'm not going to pretend I know who is better, since that spot needs versatility. I like Walke better but for whatever reason, this coaching staff loves Barclay. Doesn't matter much since that'll be Linsley's spot when he's healthy.
WR (6): Nelson, Cobb, Montgomery, Adams, Abredderis, Allison (Davis on PS, Janis to IR) - Top 5 is easy but I think Allison makes it over Davis based on production, knowing that Davis will have a wink wink agreement with the Packers that if another team poaches him from the PS, the Packers will sign him to the active roster. Janis' injury buys the team one more to decide on his future.
TE (3): Cook, Rodgers and Perillo - I'm not as high on Backman as some, so went with Perillo. Don't see them keeping 4 considering the depth at WR, LB and secondary.
DL (5): Daniels, Guion, Clark, Lowry, ??????? (Pennel suspended, Ringo on PS) - They need to sign someone, preferably Terrance Knighton. It's way too thin to make it through the first four weeks so almost guaranteed they sign someone.
ILB (5): Ryan, Martinez, Barrington, Thomas, Bradford - some might call this depth......I call it a whole lot of mediocrity. Wouldn't surprise me to see any of these 5 starting by week 17, which is why you need to keep them all.
OLB (6): CMIII, Peppers, Perry, D Jones, Fackrell, Elliott - First 5 are easy, and I still like Elliott over the other guys.
CB (5): Shields, Randall, Rollins, Gunter, Hawkins (Dorleant on PS) - first 4 are clear, and I like Hawkins measureables over the other guys.
S (5): Burnett, Clinton-Dix, Hyde, Brice, Evans - I've never been a Banjo fan but he makes it IF he's healthy. If not, they have a legit backup in Hyde who will see plenty of action, and two youngsters that have shown a ton of talent.
Specialits: Crosby, Masthay, Lovato (3)
I wonder, would TT/MM take a chance and go to JAX with the 4 listed, and then grab a 5th DL after game 1 to avoid the guaranteed contract? At least for a vested vet...
DL (5): Daniels, Guion, Clark, Lowry, ??????? (Pennel suspended, Ringo on PS) - They need to sign someone, preferably Terrance Knighton. It's way too thin to make it through the first four weeks so almost guaranteed they sign someone.
Janis is way too stiff to play DB. He has great speed but lacks the body control to put that speed to use for anything other than running in a straight line.
He excels as a gunner but not a receiver because it's easier to fight through traffic on your way to one target (PR) than multiple targets (various moves and catch points within a route). Also easier to throw yourself at a guy at full speed than it is to catch a ball at full speed. He seems to lose his stride whenever he has to look for a ball or make an adjustment.
Hungry5 posted:I wonder, would TT/MM take a chance and go to JAX with the 4 listed, and then grab a 5th DL after game 1 to avoid the guaranteed contract? At least for a vested vet...
DL (5): Daniels, Guion, Clark, Lowry, ??????? (Pennel suspended, Ringo on PS) - They need to sign someone, preferably Terrance Knighton. It's way too thin to make it through the first four weeks so almost guaranteed they sign someone.
That seems like an awfully big risk, to save $1-2M bucks for a vested vet?
MM didn't sound like he thought Janis was going anywhere at his presser yesterday.
Brice's ST play may make Janis! expendable, also.
Allison may well be just another Ruvell Martin/Boykin/whomever training camp hero where Davis was a draft pick.
Along the lines of what H5 said, could they also keep 6 safeties and go thin at ILB? Dom likes to scheme and will they basically say "these are the best guys we have, make the scheme fit the personel we have", especially with the ability to move Matthews around.
CUPackFan posted:My roster:
WR (6): Nelson, Cobb, Montgomery, Adams, Abredderis, Allison (Davis on PS, Janis to IR) - Top 5 is easy but I think Allison makes it over Davis based on production, knowing that Davis will have a wink wink agreement with the Packers that if another team poaches him from the PS, the Packers will sign him to the active roster. Janis' injury buys the team one more to decide on his future.
DL (5): Daniels, Guion, Clark, Lowry, ??????? (Pennel suspended, Ringo on PS) - They need to sign someone, preferably Terrance Knighton. It's way too thin to make it through the first four weeks so almost guaranteed they sign someone.
ILB (5): Ryan, Martinez, Barrington, Thomas, Bradford - some might call this depth......I call it a whole lot of mediocrity. Wouldn't surprise me to see any of these 5 starting by week 17, which is why you need to keep them all.
S (5): Burnett, Clinton-Dix, Hyde, Brice, Evans - I've never been a Banjo fan but he makes it IF he's healthy. If not, they have a legit backup in Hyde who will see plenty of action, and two youngsters that have shown a ton of talent.
I agree with almost all of your prediction. It's hard to believe Trevor Davis would make it through wavers, but perhaps because he's still so raw another team may not want to gamble.
They might stick with a young guy like Price if they are afraid they will lose him by subjecting him to wavers. I agree though I think a Howard Green-esque veteran plugger would be beneficial for depth.
I won't be surprised if you're right on ILB, but my hunch is they let Bradford walk or sign him to the PS. That would open a spot for Banjo.
It depends on who is eligible for the PS. I don't think they expose Davis to waivers because too many teams are too thin at WR (Cleveland, SF, Minny come to mind), especially for a guy who also has speed and can do returns. I think they release Bradford, while Banjo is a tossup. I would rather the younger guys with more upside (Brice, Evans) stay than a guy like Banjo who is who he is. Keep Janis for a bit and Allison to give the staff more time to see if Allison is for real or not.
Grave Digger posted:Satori posted:"Ace" ST guys don't grow on trees.
I agree that's he's a really good ST player, maybe even elite, but does his ST only skill really trump potential contributions we could get from Allison/Davis at WR? He's a reliable KR also, but again it's not like he's Devin Hester. Maybe the coaches feel different, they may value that more than I do and in that case I would guess Allison gets the boot. Sometimes you end up letting talent get away, just the way it goes sometimes. They may keep 7 initially while Janis is healing though.
Packers roll with 11 personnel for the vast majority of their offense
Jordy, Cobb and Adams will take those snaps with Monty having plays designed for him. The 5th and 6th and 7th WRs don't do much on Sunday, while the ST guys are in for every kick off, kick return, punt/return. You may not value a starting ST ace, but the coaches certainly do. And their contribution is way more important than anything a 5th, 6th WR brings to the table even IF he is active.
Abby is a tough one, but I lean towards Titm's comments about his long term durability
We also have a starting slot in Cobb, Jordy works from the slot and Monty is a slot guy too. What the Packers need more of is boundary WRs and that's where T Davis and Geronimo offer value.
I agree with you, but that was the same line of thinking last year and all it took was 1 lost starter to amplify the glaring weakness at #4/#5. Heck they lost all 4 starting WR at various times throughout the season, which forced deficiencies at #1-3 TE, RB, #4/5 WR, etc. in to the spotlight. We would again be a couple of leg injuries away from Janis getting significant PT. Does that mean Davis/Allison getting PT would be fine? No, but we've already seen both players show comfort with some of the more difficult routes and concepts, more so than I can remember Janis showing. Again though, same is true for other positions. I'd rather play an athletic, instinctive young player like Brice over Banjo despite Banjo being a good ST contributor.
Bottom line on Janis! is he presently offers basically nothing as a WR. I don't see his ST play as sufficient for a roster spot and hope the team puts him on IR for the year. Give him a fresh start next year when he's healthy.
I imagine this is the same debate the Packers are having behind closed doors. It will be interesting to see which X4 poster is most convincing to them.
Have him play ST on Thu to see how effective he is with the hand wrapped.
Jeff Janis heading out to practice. #PackersCamp pic.twitter.com/d1WCMhQICu
— Green Bay Packers (@packers) August 29, 2016
Grave Digger posted:I agree with you
Shoulda stopped right there. 
Satori posted:What the Packers need more of is boundary WRs and that's where T Davis and Geronimo offer value.
No Kidding. I've been researching Geronimo. I hope he can contribute on ST's because otherwise some team is going to get this kid & score HUGE.
I don't want Minny or SF to get him unless they want to trade for him.
The best thing I love about him is he FIGHTS for the ball. When that ball is in the air, he says...."THAT's MINE!" & he goes & gets it.
I hope he applies himself in the classroom & watches a ton of film & KILLS IT vs. the Chiefs.
Make TT's job hard. That's your mission should you choose to accept it.
Or is he more like that Johnson fella who now plays for the Vikings?
CUPackFan posted:RB (4): Lacy, Starks, Burks, Ripkowski - #3 RB will depend on pass pro. I like Burks better than Ross but can't say who is better in pass pro.
OL (9): Bakhtiari, Sitton, Tretter, Lang, Bulaga, Spriggs, Murphy, Taylor and Barclay/Walker (Linsley on PUP) - last spot is between Barclay and Walker. I'm not going to pretend I know who is better, since that spot needs versatility. I like Walke better but for whatever reason, this coaching staff loves Barclay. Doesn't matter much since that'll be Linsley's spot when he's healthy.
WR (6): Nelson, Cobb, Montgomery, Adams, Abredderis, Allison (Davis on PS, Janis to IR) - Top 5 is easy but I think Allison makes it over Davis based on production, knowing that Davis will have a wink wink agreement with the Packers that if another team poaches him from the PS, the Packers will sign him to the active roster. Janis' injury buys the team one more to decide on his future.
DL (5): Daniels, Guion, Clark, Lowry, ??????? (Pennel suspended, Ringo on PS) - They need to sign someone, preferably Terrance Knighton. It's way too thin to make it through the first four weeks so almost guaranteed they sign someone.
ILB (5): Ryan, Martinez, Barrington, Thomas, Bradford - some might call this depth......I call it a whole lot of mediocrity. Wouldn't surprise me to see any of these 5 starting by week 17, which is why you need to keep them all.
CB (5): Shields, Randall, Rollins, Gunter, Hawkins (Dorleant on PS) - first 4 are clear, and I like Hawkins measureables over the other guys.
S (5): Burnett, Clinton-Dix, Hyde, Brice, Evans - I've never been a Banjo fan but he makes it IF he's healthy. If not, they have a legit backup in Hyde who will see plenty of action, and two youngsters that have shown a ton of talent.
Good job CU.
I really like Burks. I'm not sure how his pass pro compares to Crocketts, but he looks to be more talented with the ball in his hands.
Linsley on PUP might mean Barclay is guaranteed to make it, atleast short term, as he looks to be the backup Center.
Really hope Martinez makes a strong impact at ILB. Probably makes sense to keep Thomas as well, they need guys that can run as we know Bradford and Barrington cannot. Ryan was pretty shaky last year too so hopefully he shows some growth.
Love the look of Brice, Evans and Hawkins. This secondary is deep as hell and has gotten much more athletic. The days of MD Jennings, Chairline Peprah, or Jerron McMillan appear to be a distant memory.
Have mentioned it before, probably biggest concern is the D-line. Raji quits, Pennel suspended, Datone moved, etc....Daniels and Guion are the only mainstays. I'm hopeful they can make due by playing Peppers or Datone as hybrids if need be. Sure hope Clark can make a contribution.
I like Allison better than Davis, but we all know how Ted likes his draft picks. Hate to see Ted always doing work for other teams 
Hopefully they sort it out against the Cheifs.
Dr._Bob posted:I imagine this is the same debate the Packers are having behind closed doors. It will be interesting to see which X4 poster is most convincing to them.
Campen: "Hey what happened to that oldschool guy? I found his anecdotes about Kaepernick and politics to be quite compelling!"
" Why wasn't he able to take a spot from Adams or force them to use more 4 WR sets to get Richard Rodgers off the field?"
Because our leadership can be loyal to a fault. Same reason AJ Hawk played on the Packers for 3 seasons too many.
Satori posted:Goalline posted:I think he will go on IR FOR THE SEASON.
I'd bet against it. Championship teams need playmakers on STs too
Packers carry 7 inactives each week, he will be one of them.
Then he'll be back after the bye week. Go Packers
A thousand times this.
michiganjoe posted:Bottom line on Janis! is he presently offers basically nothing as a WR. I don't see his ST play as sufficient for a roster spot
2015 was his! FIRST season ever as a ST gunner or KR.
Bigger stronger faster version of this guy. Hells yes there's value
Attachments
BrainDed posted:" Why wasn't he able to take a spot from Adams or force them to use more 4 WR sets to get Richard Rodgers off the field?"
Because our leadership can be loyal to a fault. Same reason AJ Hawk played on the Packers for 3 seasons too many.
McCarthy is loyal, but he's not going to harm the team out of stubbornness. AJ Hawk played because he was the best option we had, the fact that all the other ILBs he started over only are doing nothing elsewhere in the league only reinforces that (aside from Barrington who is in the process of being replaced by a rookie). He definitely sucked, but that whole crew clearly sucked worse. In hindsight that probably wasn't stubbornness, just a lack of options. Janis played as much as he deserved to play, unfortunately he was still just the 5th or 6th best option with Nelson and Monty out and Adams banged up.
At least your are truth in advertising embodied Brainded.
The Packers have waived Kennard Backman, a sixth-round pick last year. The tight end has a minor knee injury... https://t.co/NW2N0fjESZ
— Rob Demovsky (@RobDemovsky) August 30, 2016
Per a source, RB John Crockett could face a lengthy recovery for his shoulder injury. It's unclear if the #Packers will pursue a settlement.
— Michael Cohen (@Michael_Cohen13) August 30, 2016
Rob Demovsky ESPN Staff Writer
Tight end Mitchell Henry (hand) and running John Crockett (shoulder) both have injuries that likely would keep them out past Week 1, per sources. Both expected to be waived/injured.
Grave Digger posted:BrainDed posted:" Why wasn't he able to take a spot from Adams or force them to use more 4 WR sets to get Richard Rodgers off the field?"
Because our leadership can be loyal to a fault. Same reason AJ Hawk played on the Packers for 3 seasons too many.
McCarthy is loyal, but he's not going to harm the team out of stubbornness. AJ Hawk played because he was the best option we had, the fact that all the other ILBs he started over only are doing nothing elsewhere in the league only reinforces that (aside from Barrington who is in the process of being replaced by a rookie). He definitely sucked, but that whole crew clearly sucked worse. In hindsight that probably wasn't stubbornness, just a lack of options. Janis played as much as he deserved to play, unfortunately he was still just the 5th or 6th best option with Nelson and Monty out and Adams banged up.
Desmond Bishop disagrees.
Will be interesting to see if TT fields any offers on Davante Adams.
— Luke Rodgers (@thelukerodgers) August 30, 2016
Luke must know something... he's the brother Aaron still talks to.
We are all assuming that the big debate behind closed doors is about who to keep and who to cut. That may have been decided a week ago. It is an easy process in GB. Select 53 guys from among the healthy guys and put the rest on IR.
The big debate going on now is what to do with the WRs and DBs they sign NEXT year. If only they could have that same problem at TE, ILB, & RB we would be set.
BrainDed posted:Desmond Bishop disagrees.
Disagrees how? Hawk played a different position (WLB) in the 4-3, and played well, for Bishops first 2 years in the league. Hawk and Barnett both played well in '09 and Bishop finally got his shot in 2010. So really you're talking about Hawk starting over Bishop for 1 season (2009) when the defense was #7 overall, if you think that is a sign of McCarthy being stubborn or "loyal to a fault" then you're just wrong. If anything I remember the debate being Barnett should go to OLB and Bishop should take his spot at ILB.
Grave Digger posted:if you think that is a sign of McCarthy being stubborn or "loyal to a fault" then you're just wrong.
Digger is exactly right. It was about Capers being incompetent.
/shows himself the door