Finley - Good Riddens - or franchise

quote:

Originally posted by Grave Digger:

I mean heck, we have 5 TEs, you think that is Thompson's idea? Nope it's the former TE that's running the offense. If McCarthy really wants Finley back and the numbers work out (meaning Finley's camp is reasonable) then he will be back.

If this is the case, why do we give TT any credit at all? Shoot, might as well save some coin and hand over both hats to MM... AND.. we had 3 FB's the year before.. I think it more to do with ST's and having solid football players then it is what position MM played.

As I said earlier, I'm sure he takes into consideration the coaches wish list and player evals, but he will make the final call and that is just one of the things he will consider.

quote:

Originally posted by BrainDed:

quote:

Originally posted by ammo:

Another Brainded fallicy. When making up the 53 man roster, which is never final the whole staff has input. When it comes down to numbers 50-53 you can bet TT will go with guys MM wants, not forcing guys on MM. Both TT and MM have stated this many times.

I see your reading comprehension skills are failing you with age... What did you say differently than I did here, besides picking 50-53 and that doesn't pertain to Mouth?

" I'm sure he will take into consideration coaches evaluations and wish list"

Check your own comprehension dum dum. You said TT and TT alone makes that call . That sure sounds like he's not including MM.

quote:

Originally posted by BrainDed:
If this is the case, why do we give TT any credit at all? Shoot, might as well save some coin and hand over both hats to MM... AND.. we had 3 FB's the year before.. I think it more to do with ST's and having solid football players then it is what position MM played.

As I said earlier, I'm sure he takes into consideration the coaches wish list and player evals, but he will make the final call and that is just one of the things he will consider.

Well duh he makes the final call, but if McCarthy says that he really wants to keep 5 TEs then I think Thompson would find a way to make it happen. That's the kind of relationship they have. McCarthy isn't making the decision, but they're both professionals and they respect what each other do enough to listen to each other. I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

Packers don't want to use franchise tag on Finley

quote:

And not just for one year. Finley’s agent Blake Baratz told the Green Bay Post-Gazette that the team would like to sign his client to a long-term deal instead of using the franchise tag. The feeling is mutual.

My guess is that they want to tag Wells and re-sign him later like they did Pickett a couple years ago. Or they want to do a Matt Cassell type deal with Flynn (tag and trade).

quote:

but if McCarthy says that he really wants to keep 5 TEs then I think Thompson would find a way to make it happen

Of course, but again, at that point we are talking about the final roster spots.. We are looking at Crabtree vs Hall.. In that scenario, coaches wish list is going to be a higher priority in his choice.. When talking about giving out a franchise tag or a multi-million dollar contract the priorities change..

Look, I think J-Mike is a good TE.. BUT, I don't think he is one of our "core" players and would not be willing to pay top TE money for him. We are going to need that money to sign some guys who I do think are "core" guys.. Raji, Mathews, and even Rodgers are going to need new deals soon. You just can't keep everyone and I would be upset if we didn't have the cash to keep one of those 2 defenders but we signed Finley at a high price tag.

Ammo - What part of the phrase "takes into consideration" are you struggling with?

quote:

"Knowing the Packers, I would say they would try to come with the franchise tag," Finley said Wednesday in an exclusive interview. "They like to get all their players cheap. I (expect) the franchise tag, for sure. Hopefully, I can get a long-term deal where I can get settled in one place. That's my goal."

So, if Green Bay chooses to apply the franchise tag, Finley plans for he and his agent to argue that Finley should be classified as a wide receiver.

"I guarantee you that's what route we'll go," Finley said. "Hands down. I don't know the details of it, but that's what route we'll go."

Well then... Looks like he wants some serious coin.

Man, he sounds like a real tool in that excerpt (wanting to be franchised as a WR).

The median household income in GB is less than $40,000. The Green Bay Packers have a median income of $642000. Finley is talking about being franchised for 5.5M and saying that the Packers like to get their players cheap.

It is also contract talking time, alot that said is just postering.

quote:

Originally posted by Green and Gold:
Finley is talking about being franchised for 5.5M and saying that the Packers like to get their players cheap.

They do like to get their players cheap. It sounds bad when it's put in that context but it's the truth... it's just being shrewd with a limited amount of cap space. You want to get as much upside for as little as possible and there's nothing wrong with that.

It's a tough, competitive business and the Packers have to look out for their long term interests as does Jermichael. We all have a biased opinion because we want what's best for the team.

I find it hard to blame any athlete for trying to get as much as they can, though. Finley blows out his knee again and that franchise money is all he has for himself and his family for the rest of his life. These guys have to look at their first free agent contract as their one shot in life. Only a complete idiot wouldn't want to maximize their value.

The Packer's salary cap and roster has been very fortunate the past two years to have top of the line QB play for a middle of the road contract. All of that is about to change very soon and it's going to have a huge impact on both. To pretend otherwise is to bury your head in the sand. TT's had a great run building the team but now he's facing a new challenge and it may very well be more difficult than the first.

You're right. It would be an extreme hardship to expect Jermic to settle for 5.5M instead of 6M or more especially considering that he drops 1/2 of the passes thrown his way.

If Finley wants to be tagged like a wideout, then why don't we pay him like a wideout who produced his numbers. I think something comparable to that would be what James Jones received last year. If he wants to be paid like a top 5 TE he needs to have a HEAVILY incentive laden contract.Because as of right now, he IS NOT top 5.

another player who wants to stay in Green Bay who the coaches speak highly of.

Finley cost himself plenty of coin with this past season, he probably knows that as well as anyone.

He is the first athlete I've heard be so concerned about money.

Of course GB wants to get its players cheap. What team, or business, doesn't want that? Finley should get out of the pampered pro athlete world and into the real world of the "average Joe" to see what life is really like on the cheap.

And if he wants to get paid like a WR, it would probably be as a practice squad player because it's hard to imagine a starting wide receiver being paid big bucks with all the drops he had this year, added to the fact that this was the first year he stayed healthy. As a wide receiver, I'm not even sure he's up there with Jones this year.

Let him walk and see what he's offered on the market. GB could then come back into the bidding if the price is right. Use the tag on Wells.

The Packers need to keep as many parts of this offense together this offseason. Philbin is gone. Clements may go with him. Need to keep a little continuity if there's major turnover on the O coaching staff. Sign Finley.

No way Ted tags a 31-year-old center and lets a 24-year-old tight end walk.

Spencer Havner walked.

he was a linebacker

and nothing like Finley

and he wasn't 24

otherwise I agree, clear parallels

quote:

Originally posted by titmfatied:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Green and Gold:

I find it hard to blame any athlete for trying to get as much as they can, though. Finley blows out his knee again and that franchise money is all he has for himself and his family for the rest of his life. These guys have to look at their first free agent contract as their one shot in life. Only a complete idiot wouldn't want to maximize their value.

But, even if he did blow out his knee, isn't there life after football? I realize he didn't complete college, but maybe he could finish (or did he do it in his time off?). I think he could make it on 5.5 million plus what he could earn in the profession of his choice in whatever his degree would be in.

I'll probably be lucky to near his rookie contract over my lifetime, but oh well, I should have been an athlete I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by TD:
Spencer Havner walked.

Wow.

quote:

Originally posted by Hauser:

But, even if he did blow out his knee, isn't there life after.......?

Me and Lambeau say, 'No!"

There was some thought that because of the injury that Finley was playing a lot more tentative. He wasn't playing with that reckless abandon that we've seen from him before. Not to make excuses for the guy, but that's what I think the Packers are banking on with him.

Finley pre-2010 injury was pretty damn good. The last year or so? Not so much.

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
There was some thought that because of the injury that Finley was playing a lot more tentative. He wasn't playing with that reckless abandon that we've seen from him before.

Desean Jackson syndrome

quote:

Finley pre-2010 injury was pretty damn good. The last year or so? Not so much.

He injured his knee, not his hands.

Finley played tenative all season due to the injuries I believe. He was afraid of getting her hurt due to his pending FA. There were quite a few passes where Rodgers thought he was going to continue the route and Finley either slowed down or stopped. I think he was worried about getting hit affecting his hands.

Maybe I should've put the on the Havner post. Lit n up.

If Uncle Ted was watching he certainly noticed that with a couple main gogs (Finley and Grant) not making adequate plays yet alone great plays we managed to lose at home rather than winning a SB on the road without them.

CYA guys.

Good point.

Was looking at what the top producing TEs are making...

Younger guys with 4 year deals all signed in summer 2010. These are likely the contracts Thompson and Ball will use in negotiations. Interestingly they have the same base $$ the final 3 years of the deal.

Player          Years    Total            Guaranteed        2011 base       2012 base       2013 base
Rob Gronkowski	4        $4,440,000.00    $2,590,000.00     $405,000.00     $490,000.00     $575,000.00 
Aaron Hernandez 4        $2,378,000.00      $200,000.00     $405,000.00     $490,000.00     $575,000.00 
Jimmy Graham    4        $2,455,000.00      $665,140.00     $405,000.00     $490,000.00     $575,000.00 

Couple of guys with 6 yr deals, both signed in summer of 2010. Not sure Davis is worth that deal... these are likely the contracts Finley's agent will use when starting the talks.

Player          Years    Total            Guaranteed       2011 base        2012 base       2013 base        2014 base       2015 base
Antonio Gates   6        $39,800,000.00   $20,400,000.00   $5,200,000.00    $4,000,000.00   $4,500,000.00    $5,000,000.00   $5,900,000.00 
Vernon Davis    6        $42,705,000.00   $23,000,000.00   $4,708,000.00    $5,751,000.00   $6,072,000.00    $4,700,000.00   $4,350,000.00 

Those first three deals are rookie contracts, so doubt that comes into play at all.

I'm guessing Finley will point to the latter 2 deals, and TT will say no. They'll settle on a 2-3 year deal averaging $3-4m a year. This gives Finley a chance to prove he's worthy of a $40m deal at the young age of 27.

quote:

\They'll settle on a 2-3 year deal averaging $3-4m a year.

I hope you are right.. I think someone will over pay though after watching the results that Gronk, Davis and Graham have had. His stock isn't at it's peak, but it's still high thanks to this trend.

Tag and Trade!

Spend that saved money on Raji, Mathews and #12. Use thge pick obtained to move up and address the glaring needs on D.

Included the first 3 deals because of similar age / production / potential... don't care they are rookie deals.

Hard to see Finley settling for anything much under the 5yr/$30 total/$15 guar range. Regardless of the drops and underachieving cited by Packer fans, I'm sure there's at least one other GM that will gladly pay this.

This year I think Finley was seeing too many star$ and he couldnt concentrate on seeing the ball into his hands.

quote:

Originally posted by IL_Pack_Fan:
I'm sure there's at least one other GM that will gladly pay this.

Contact that GM and have him call 800-UNC-LTED.

quote:

Originally posted by titmfatied:
Finley blows out his knee again and that franchise money is all he has for himself and his family for the rest of his life.

Should I start crying now or wait till later?

Blowing out a knee is no longer a career ender. Just ask Willis McGahee.

quote:

Originally posted by Hungry5:
these are likely the contracts Finley's agent will use when starting the talks.

Player          Years    Total            Guaranteed       2011 base        2012 base       2013 base        2014 base       2015 base
Antonio Gates   6        $39,800,000.00   $20,400,000.00   $5,200,000.00    $4,000,000.00   $4,500,000.00    $5,000,000.00   $5,900,000.00 
Vernon Davis    6        $42,705,000.00   $23,000,000.00   $4,708,000.00    $5,751,000.00   $6,072,000.00    $4,700,000.00   $4,350,000.00 

If these are the numbers, I believe he hits the market. Gone, see ya later, don't let the ball hit you in the ass.....

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/lea...e=Receiving&rank=232

Finley finished 5th in drops with 11. For a guy that wasn't even in the Top 50 in catches, that's way too much.

Good riddens

TD or Finley?