@SteveLuke posted:No one lamented MVS' absence more than I did (in writing in the lead up to the game) than me.
It is not that I think that MVS is anything special, he isn't, but rather because he is the only legitimate deep threat on the roster.
And by no means do I think that this is just about Rodgers.
I fear that if Love is forced to start next season without a significant upgrade in receiving talent, he will be unfairly castigated for not doing enough even though I view the TE/WR talent as lacking even with Davante and a healthy MVS and Tonyan.
Indeed, if MVS, Davante, and Tonyan are all gone and adequate replacements are not on roster and Love is the QB, I will certainly point that reality out not to excuse any poor play but to explain why it might be occurring.
PS I like Lazard. He plays hard and is a good blocker. He would make an excellent #3 or #4 depending upon who was ahead of him. He is not, and never will be, a good #2 WR .
As others have said in recent posts, Lazard would actually be a very good #2 TE. He's not quite big enough to play TE on run-heavy downs and distances, but he's a good enough blocker that you could bring him in on 3rd and medium and not completely telegraph you are going to throw.
Tonyan is 6'5", 247 pounds. He ran a 4.58.
Lazard is 6'5" and about 230. He ran a 4.55.
DeGuara is 6'2" and about 240. He ran a 4.73. He was drafted about 2-3 rounds too early based only on measurables.
Richard Rodgers is 6'4" about 260. He ran a 4.82.
They spent 3rd round draft choices on both DeGuara and Rodgers in the last 7 years. The first two guys were UDFAs.
@YATittle posted:It seemed to change Rodgers' approach.
It seemed to change the Niners….they were back on their heels, looking to go down by at least 10. Little Dog spit it up and they saw the light.
@MichiganPacker posted:Richard Rodgers is 6'4" about 260. He ran a 4.82.
And an IQ of 26.
Geenious in the Hail Mary play tho
Gary doesn't play on special teams.
I know, I know.... We can't attempt to assess intelligence in the slave trade, I mean draft.
@YATittle posted:It seemed to change Rodgers' approach.
Let's see. First 7 passes were all to Adams or Jones. Threw one to Lewis which was fumbled. Rest of the game threw to Adams and Jones except for 5 balls to other players. There was no change. He was looking for Adams all day and Jones was the outlet.
@vitaflo posted:Did it? Up until the fumble Rodgers threw 7 passes, 4 to Adams and 3 to Jones. He was already forcing it to those two even before the fumble. His approach didn't change all game, it just became less effective.
Oops, I missed your reply. Could have just +1 this. The results were the change, not the approach.
this is my relationship with the AR GBP
winning a lot during the regular season is a lot of fun
frustrating that it doesn't carry into the postseason
frustrating? something like that
I idly wonder if AR had to go on the road to get there if that would be better
but I'd rather not find out
something new and different please
this act's gone stale
@Goalline posted:Yesterday, Allen threw 4 TD's to a WR I had never heard of before. Yes, they lost but not because they scored a measly 10 points.
Gabriel Davis was one of the receivers taken in that great 2020 draft class after Deguara and he's 6'2" and ran a 4.5 40. You know, someone who can actually get open and catch the ball, unlike Deguara.
I caught Mike Lombardi on a new sports show tonight on my drive home (Maggie and Perloff). Lombardi absolute ripping on MLF. He said "how could anyone vote for MLF for coach of the year. Coaches are supposed to fix problems that occur during the year and MLF didn't do anything on special teams." He also said that MLF doesn't coach special teams, doesn't coach defense, and he has Aaron Rodgers. What exactly does he actually do?"
Lombardi is usually pretty plugged into the league, so maybe MLF's golden boy status has taken some hits. It is true you couldn't have managed the decisions around the playoff game any worse than MLF. Who to activate, who to start. etc.
MLF is no golden boy
He’s a new age Marty Schottenheimer but only difference is MS had horrible luck and MLF just seems to want to speak in platitudes and not make tough choices and decisions.
MM had a gaudy record for a period of time as well but ended up being a stooge and obviously he’s far less attractive. In other words, MLF would rank highly on the Feyda scale due to high and tight and eyebrow sculpting. I liked him better when he looked like a geek loser with Washington.
Who did Marty have as quarterbacks?
@Tschmack posted:MLF is no golden boy
He’s a new age Marty Schottenheimer but only difference is MS had horrible luck and MLF just seems to want to speak in platitudes and not make tough choices and decisions.
MM had a gaudy record for a period of time as well but ended up being a stooge and obviously he’s far less attractive. In other words, MLF would rank highly on the Feyda scale due to high and tight and eyebrow sculpting. I liked him better when he looked like a geek loser with Washington.
My opinion of MLF went down exponentially when the stuff about how he approached special teams this years was publicized in the playoff game. To tell Aikman that you just hope "special teams don't screw it up for us" is pathetic. Mike Lombardi is right. What exactly is he there for? To stand there and rile the crowd up?
@MichiganPacker posted:My opinion of MLF went down exponentially when the stuff about how he approached special teams this years was publicized in the playoff game. To tell Aikman that you just hope "special teams don't screw it up for us" is pathetic. Mike Lombardi is right. What exactly is he there for? To stand there and rile the crowd up?
To make Mark Murphy smile? If you can call that a smile.
@Pikes Peak posted:Who did Marty have as quarterbacks?
https://www.footballperspectiv...arterback-struggles/
| Rk | Quarterback | Wins |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Bernie Kosar | 32 |
| 2 | Drew Brees | 30 |
| 3 | Steve DeBerg | 28 |
| 4 | Steve Bono | 21 |
| 5 | Joe Montana | 19 |
| 6 | Philip Rivers | 14 |
| 7 | Dave Krieg | 13 |
| 8 | Rich Gannon | 11 |
| 9 | Elvis Grbac | 10 |
| 10 | Tony Banks | 8 |
| 11 | Gary Danielson | 5 |
| 12 | Doug Flutie | 3 |
| 14 | Mike Pagel | 2 |
| 15 | Don Strock | 2 |
| 13 | Paul McDonald | 2 |
| 17 | Ron Jaworski | 1 |
| 16 | Steve Pelluer | 1 |
| 18 | Jeff Christensen | 1 |
An off-the-cuff comment MLF apparently made at a production meeting strikes me as pretty insignificant. He's ultimately responsible for the poor ST play but there really wasn't a magical mid-season fix available to him. Organization really needs to figure out why the problem has existed for years spanning several coaches and GMs.
Did Mike Lombardi think ten points from the MVP QB and the offense was acceptable?
@michiganjoe posted:An off-the-cuff comment MLF apparently made at a production meeting strikes me as pretty insignificant. He's ultimately responsible for the poor ST play but there really wasn't a magical mid-season fix available to him. Organization really needs to figure out why the problem has existed for years spanning several coaches and GMs.
MLF knew the special teams sucked all year and did nothing about it. He just accepted it. He couldn't have possibly handled it any more poorly than he did. I would say it is VERY significant.
Mike Lombardi is a fraud - a big mouth with a poor track record. You did see (slight) improvements in the special teams, but a lot of it was after the fact huge gaffes. LaFleur messed up the Drayton hire by hiring within the organization. But canning Drayton mid-year would do nothing. LaFleur and Gutey need to have a heart to heart about having players that excel in special teams. LaFleur also needs to re-evaluate his hiring process. Mennenga, then Drayton. Ugh.
At this point, I'd rather be the 5th or 6th seed and keep playing each week. Home field advantage is out the door after these last 2 seasons.
@13X posted:MLF knew the special teams sucked all year and did nothing about it. He just accepted it. He couldn't have possibly handled it any more poorly than he did. I would say it is VERY significant.
Neither of us know internally what may have gone on, but what did you want MLF to do mid-season? Think firing Drayton would have helped?
@michiganjoe posted:Neither of us know internally what may have gone on, but what did you want MLF to do mid-season? Think firing Drayton would have helped?
I think he needed to fire Drayton mid season and at least try something different. The Special Teams were so incredibly and consistently bad that it's hard to believe that we couldn't have found an at least average fill-in . Average would have been a huge improvement.
@michiganjoe posted:Neither of us know internally what may have gone on, but what did you want MLF to do mid-season? Think firing Drayton would have helped?
Yes. Drayton should have been gone by week 8. If MLF wanted to wait for the bye week that would have been understandable.
@michiganjoe posted:Neither of us know internally what may have gone on, but what did you want MLF to do mid-season? Think firing Drayton would have helped?
It absolutely 100% couldn't hurt. Glint should've been chumming the bottom or the roster as well. Interesting that Vernon Scott didn't play but a handful of downs, was passed up by Henry Black but they still held onto him.
Problem is much bigger than Drayton and firing him mid-season wouldn't have accomplished anything other than making some fans feel comfortable because the head coach is doing something (regardless of if it'll actually help). This is a problem that has existed for years under numerous head coaches and general managers. The idea that a change mid-season at ST coordinator was going to make any meaningful difference strikes me as silly.
Gutey attempted to upgrade the unit with a new long snapper, returner and punter. Only the latter really worked out and his performance nosedived at the end of the season.
@13X posted:MLF knew the special teams sucked all year and did nothing about it. He just accepted it. He couldn't have possibly handled it any more poorly than he did. I would say it is VERY significant.
Also, the fact that he said in his latest press conference that they were now going to do a detailed study of how other teams use their personnel on special teams was a problem for me. Don't get me wrong, it's great to do that. But why wait until after you lose again because of special teams to do this when it's been a problem for years (since you fired the previous guy after last year for poor performance). It just indicates to me they didn't think it was important enough to bother with. MLF said they did a study on how other teams handled playing guys in meaningless regular season games after they clinched the one seed. They did that over a week, and they didn't bother to do this for the special teams when they've sucked since September (and before that)?
The other thing this points to is how badly they f'd up the interview process last year. I've served on several executive level search committees in my current job. Even if you are fairly certain you are going with an internal candidate, there is still value in interviewing a handful of others. If handled right, the network you build and the information you get it from it can be almost as valuable as the hire itself. If MLF would have interviewed 5 guys for the job last year, it's like getting a free external expert consultant to evaluate your STs every time you interview a person. You can ask them what they thought could be improved from your previous special teams performance. What would they do to improve it. You likely get some insight from external people around the NFL and what they really think of your ST situation. Have them give you examples of good special teams units and why they are good - personnel, scheme, etc.? It doesn't seem like MLF really did that last year. It was just kind of like he didn't consider it important enough to bother with a detailed search.
MLF probably works 100+ work weeks pouring over film to find any edge he can to scheme plays that will work against specific opponents and personnel for every down and distance imaginable. Yet, he was pretty flippant about dealing with the STs units all year and didn't want to take an extra week during the offseason to talk to a few other candidates before hiring Drayton?
MLF said all the right things after the game about it was ultimately his fault and responsibility for the mistakes that were made that caused the loss. He needed take more responsibility in the off-season and during the year to make sure that they did everything they could to fix a problem that was obvious to anyone who has watched football before so that it didn't cause them to lose a game. He failed miserably.
@michiganjoe posted:Problem is much bigger than Drayton and firing him mid-season wouldn't have accomplished anything other than making some fans feel comfortable because the head coach is doing something (regardless of if it'll actually help). This is a problem that has existed for years under numerous head coaches and general managers. The idea that a change mid-season at ST coordinator was going to make any meaningful difference strikes me as silly.
So what you're saying is you know for certain that a coaching change, which happens all the time, would've done nothing?
It's called forced motivation. There is also zero reason those guys on the bottom of the roster shouldn't be worried about a spot.
Some of the errors on ST were beyond basic. I can't understand how a coach getting the hook, that guy who is supposed to coach fundamentals, isn't the responsible thing to do.
ST LOST that game flat out.
@michiganjoe posted:Gutey attempted to upgrade the unit with a new long snapper, returner and punter. Only the latter really worked out and his performance nosedived at the end of the season.
The punter was probably the biggest lynchpin of doom for Crosby. No way they didn't bring in Wirtel with his fastest snap time ever to try and accommodate for Bojo's bad holds. That's making a problem worse.
Like others have said, if they loved Bojo then get a backup QB to hold. Instead they bring in Mr. Lightweight Crotch Fastball and he gets fucking trucked.
Who forced that arrangement? Did Drayton fail to recognize it? Did Gump fall in love with Bojo but failed to acknowledge the guy can't hold, the same reason he was cut before? Did Mayo say "it's all good" and ignore it? Was the coaching staff essentially forced to use the setup because the FO wasn't going to provide an alternative? Did they once look for a different setup for holding the ball for a guy that scores points? Nope. They get the Ass Canon instead just adding a layer of failure to the whole equation.
@michiganjoe posted:Problem is much bigger than Drayton and firing him mid-season wouldn't have accomplished anything other than making some fans feel comfortable because the head coach is doing something (regardless of if it'll actually help). This is a problem that has existed for years under numerous head coaches and general managers. The idea that a change mid-season at ST coordinator was going to make any meaningful difference strikes me as silly.
I cannot understand this mentality. Making a change to improve is silly but accepting that you have the absolute worst ST unit in the NFL but you are helpless to do anything about the coaching part of it until the season ends is a sound approach?
@Henry posted:So what you're saying is you know for certain that a coaching change, which happens all the time, would've done nothing?
Changes mid-season are infrequent. Move would have appeared knee-jerk and one thing MLF doesn't do is knee-jerk.
Well his knees can be as calm as cucumbers as his ST loses playoff games for the team.
@MichiganPacker posted:My opinion of MLF went down exponentially when the stuff about how he approached special teams this years was publicized in the playoff game. To tell Aikman that you just hope "special teams don't screw it up for us" is pathetic. Mike Lombardi is right. What exactly is he there for? To stand there and rile the crowd up?
I thought it was Shanahan that said that, and Aikman named the wrong coach during the broadcast?
I could be mistaken, it's certainly not the first time.
@michiganjoe posted:Changes mid-season are infrequent. Move would have appeared knee-jerk and one thing MLF doesn't do is knee-jerk.
Knee jerk would have been better than acting helpless and accepting complete failure- which is what he did.
@Thunderbird posted:I thought it was Shanahan that said that, and Aikman named the wrong coach during the broadcast?
I could be mistaken, it's certainly not the first time.
I've read or heard that as well. Been trying to find a link.
