Let's get it started.
+++++
* Joe Thomas
* Oline did okay
------
*AR's play
* Injuries - again
* Randall regressing
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Guion out for a few weeks with MCL sprain.
+ Joe Thomas, Jake Ryan, Blake Martinez, OLBs & DLine.
-ARod, MM, TT.
------ There is a huge disconnect between ARod & MM or something else is happening here. The O is terrible.
Positive
Hmmm....???
Martinez got his helmet dirty a few times.
Negative
MM's playcalling. Offense looked like they had no coherent strategy and their execution demonstrated that
Jared who??
Starks runs himself into the ground
Bad, bad calls on third and one with the toss to Nelson; then on 4 and 1 they call a dopey run to Starks
Rodgers looks rusty still and offense seems like they needed to play more in the pre-season
Packers looked predictable on offense as seems to be normal these daze
Note:
I will say this again...I think we may be witnessing the demise of Mike McCarthy.
Maybe there is a disconnect between MM and AR, but then it's on MM to do something about it. His playcalling just makes me crazy! On the series leading to the fourth down it was good, then he blows it by calling a fade in the EZ on third down and, what, 2 yards? He has to be more patient there. I think he and AR have gotten home run or as MM likes to put it "explosive play" happy. They had their greatest success tonight running it down their throats and then using shorter, quicker passes.
Daniels and Perry were beasts. The run defense was strong. And while there were some exceptions, I thought the o-line was serviceable against a tough opponent on the road.
The negative is this entire team has a stale feeling to it. The offense is clearly the biggest problem, but it's worth noting that Bradford has been on the Vikings for two weeks and basically threw for over 70% and nearly 300 yards on us. Whenever they needed yards, they could easily hit Diggs or a TE. But we're all so numbed by this defense over the years that this actually constitutes a pretty darn good performance.
The offense…what can you even say at this point. 12 is a shell of himself. The WRs can't get open. And the coaching staff either can't scheme or can't get players to execute a scheme. A damning performance and the continuation of 10 months of frustration.
It seems like an alternate universe to think it wasn't too long ago when 12 and MM out-executed and out-coached Brady and New England at Lambeau. Today the Packers have basically the same players and had 56 yards in a half. Meanwhile NE's 2nd string is putting up numbers. 12 has been awful and I hate his body language, but maybe he's just sick of playing for a coaching staff that has lost its touch.
People will blame AR for tonight (which is justified) while ignoring the larger issues here. The offense, as a whole, is putrid. The offensive line is solid but there doesn't seem to be any star-power outside of QB1. There's no explosion. It's a regurgitation of what happened last year. Same old ****, week after week. Nobody gets open, Rodgers doesn't trust anyone and makes bad decisions. Whatever they're doing, it isn't working and they need to figure it out.
I wouldn't mind if there defense played like that every week. Outside of Randall having a shockingly terrible night, they were solid.
Positives
Uhh, we blocked a punt. That doesn't happen every day... Something something zooked.
We didn't waste our second half timeouts early!
Negatives
Wasted first half timeouts.
The offense was stale last year, and they deluded themselves thinking that just by Jordy coming back, it would all be magically fixed. Did they come up with anything new over the offseason? Was the whole plan seriously just "let's not get injuries in training camp or preseason and we'll be fine"?
Cook retreating from the first down marker. Even J-Mike is brighter than that.
Rodgers played bad. Bad bad. Possibly bad bad bad.
Dumdums complaining about going for it on 4th down, when opponents' 4th down conversion helped them win the game. Granted the sequence especially with 3rd down was pretty garbage, but actually going for it on 4th down was a perfectly reasonable course of action.
That last third down conversion. Even Al and Chris figured out what was coming. Sad thing was if he doesn't tug, I don't think Diggs was going to get it.
I loved the counter trap with the OL blocking one direction with Cook coming across backside and cleaning up the DE. That hole was massive for Lacy. More of that call please.
I can hardly wait for the obligatory....."We'll get it fixed." 
Pros:
+ Run D has been awesome. Daniels, Guion and Clark all played great.
+ The ILB's played good too. I think we finally solved that problem.
+ Perry is an absolute beast setting the edge and his bull rush is nasty.
+ Defense played well enough to win despite Randall getting torched. If shields is playing, Diggs doesn't go off like that.
+ Monty with the punt block.
Cons:
- This loss is all on Rodgers. He sucked tonight and if we didn't have a horseshoe up our ass we get embarrassed on the scoreboard. 3 fumbles, an INT and 2 dropped INTs. He's got happy feet, throws off his back foot causing accuracy issues, and locks in on his guys. Speaking of, why the **** does he have a love affair with Adams?
- It's time to get the no huddle under control. We're constantly in a state of confusion and leads to TO's wasted and poor situational play calls. Example, the 3rd and 4th and 1 that we didn't get in the red zone. If we calm the **** down, send in the correct personnel for 3rd n 1 (Lacy not Starks and 3 WR) and execute a play it could have been the difference between a W and L. I'm tired of us looking discombobulated, we are fooling ourselves, not the D. Run it occasionally, but when the situation calls for calm and a personnel change, don't be so GD stubborn!
- Our young CB's have taken some lumps in back to back games. They need to start playing well because there isn't a plan B.
- Don Barclay comes in for a play and gives up a sack. Thanks TT
- Five toss plays to our 260 pound tailback for 2 yards. Didn't work last week either or the 30 times you ran it last year, Mike.
- The biggest negative of all is that this isn't an anomaly. It's who we've been for a while now. Its going to take MM butting heads with #12 and getting him back to basics.
Barclay comes in for a play to spell Lang and he gets beat. I hope no one gets injured on our O Line. Our Run D was great! They held the MN run game to 30 yards. Fackrell tackled AP and AP hurts his leg. Anyone hear what his injury is? Not that I care. There is already talk of how much better off MN is with Bradford than TB. Bye TB.
Boris posted:I can hardly wait for the obligatory....."We'll get it fixed."
Yep…that's the problem in a nut shell. You've got a coach who is stubborn in his approach. A GM who is stubborn in his approach and hands-off with the coach. And an "owner" in Murphy who is hands-off with his GM and Coach. What does Murphy even do now that Favre's number has been retired?
Forgot a positive. It's only a matter of time before Bradford gets injured and the Vikes don't have a QB or 1st round pick.
/salty
+
Defense. Repeatedly getting burned by Diggs was ugly, but the bottom line is they only surrendered 17. Should be enough if the offense ifs functioning even reasonably well.
-
Offense. Completely dysfunctional and what the continuing issue with the QB is remains a puzzle. Obviously it's more than just the absence of Jordy that was cited last year.
MM may have to butt heads with AR, but I'd like to see MM get his own head out of his butt and make use of Abby, Monty, and Davis. And I'd like to start seeing him make better play calls. Frankly, I've always been an MM fan as a head coach but I think I'm falling out of love.
Packers have 2 dependable WR's in an offense that demands 3.
Fandame posted:MM may have to butt heads with AR, but I'd like to see MM get his own head out of his butt and make use of Abby, Monty, and Davis. And I'd like to start seeing him make better play calls. Frankly, I've always been an MM fan as a head coach but I think I'm falling out of love.
I agree but we do what we do.
packmon posted:Packers have 2 dependable WR's in an offense that demands 3.
Just because you keep saying it doesn't mean it's true. Monty and Abby are very talented. Davis is too. I'll give you Adams... he isn't worth a **** and shouldn't be on the field. That's a continuously poor coaching decision.
packmon posted:Packers have 2 dependable WR's in an offense that demands 3.
Can you please just shut the **** up?
One thing I find very puzzling is why Arod keeps throwing the ball to Adams. All the receivers talk about having to earn Arod's trust, etc. I wouldn't trust Adams to catch a nerf football in my backyard. Why Arod does is beyond me.
ChilliJon posted:packmon posted:Packers have 2 dependable WR's in an offense that demands 3.
Can you please just shut the **** up?
I make an entirely valid but debatable point and you tell me to shut the **** up. Sad!
Pakrz posted:One thing I find very puzzling is why Arod keeps throwing the ball to Adams. All the receivers talk about having to earn Arod's trust, etc. I wouldn't trust Adams to catch a nerf football in my backyard. Why Arod does is beyond me.
The only reason I can think of that Adams continues to get so many opportunities is that he was a 2nd round pick. His performance does not justify the # of touches.
And I make an entirely valid point that talent is not the issue & all you have is "Arizona Cardinals."
Yeah, the same team that got taken to the brink by a Packer squad that lost, not just their 1st, but their 2nd, 3rd & 4th string WR's. Yet the Packers had a enough to push the Cardinals to the brink of getting bounced out of the playoffs.
Devoid of talent....laughable & Sad!
if there's so much talent then why can't they move the ball?
The concerning thing is that McCarthy and his staff had all offseason to figure things out with this offense and it's same old same old. I'm finally at the acceptance portion with regards to that unit and what you see is what you get with them. They'll have better showings when they arent' facing a top 5 defense, but it still won't look good. The only way this offense will improve is if they bring in another OC from outside the org who brings some fresh ideas/concepts or they suddenly find a way to draft some Antonio Browns' or AJ Green's to help them with all those one-on-one match-ups that this offense relies so heavily on.
Defense wasn't awful but I mean, the VIkes have 1 legit receiving weapon and they just let that dude do whatever he wanted, when he wanted. How many friggin times was RAndall just giving DIggs a free release at the line? Can we get a jam or something because he was simply running right by Randall without ever being touched
Also, wow, I'm getting worried about Rodgers. WTF is wrong with him? His mechanics are horrible. This offense has its issues but there were 3 or 4 times he had guys who had a step down the sideline or were wide open over the middle of the field and he's trying to sling it off his back foot and it sails a good several yards over the intended receiver. His INT throw was just terrible. Adams had room down the sideline but instead of leading him he floats a touch pass with a DB having tight coverage on him. THe hell was that throw?
This offense still lacks any sort of vertical threat in the passing game and Rodgers bad deep passes add to that. I mean, when they are attempting to go deep, dude's throws are so far off that the receiver never even has a chance to make a play on the ball. That 3rd and 1 heave to Jordy in the corner of the end zone was another poorly thrown ball. Was well out of bounds and about 5 yards ahead of Jordy. Never even had a shot to play it
I'm getting some serious Sherman era Packers vibes with this team now which isn't fun
Pakrz posted:packmon posted:Packers have 2 dependable WR's in an offense that demands 3.
Just because you keep saying it doesn't mean it's true. Monty and Abby are very talented.
then why can't they get open?
+ Defense played well enough to win the game
+ Special teams played well enough to win the game
- Rodgers sucked
- Starks sucked
-Randall sucked
-TT's Miracle Punter sucked
-TT's New and Improved OL sucked
-TT'a FA Miracle TE sucked
-Did I point out that Wonder Boy sucked (for about the 16th game in a row)? Rodgers has lost his mojo. And he knows it. No doubt that is the reason for the Bad Shave Day. Maybe next week Our Hero can feature a DeNiro look before he pulls a full Taxi Driver meltdown against Detroit. Fans will still find a way to frame it as an MVP effort as AR16 in the post-game repeatedly points the bloody finger at his temple.
+ I have to get up early, so I didn't get to listen to the second half
- I don't need to get up until about 4:30, but I keep waking up around 3:00.
+ They didn't lose to the Rams
- I think I'd rather have the team I root for lose to a team with no fans than a team with obnoxious fans.
All of the above and may I add that our running backs are leaving a lot of yards on the field. Lacy seems too big to cut & change direction any longer. We should go to more pulls / traps since both he & Starks are now more straight ahead runners. I wonder what CJ Spiller would cost for a year?
In spite of what it looked like the defense actually played pretty well. In spite of Diggs, they didn't reach 300 yards passing and they obviously did nothing rushing the ball. Our DL and LBs have really played great thus far, but what is supposed to be our strength on defense has been the weakest performing unit. To my eyes, it looks like they are playing extremely soft (perhaps an attempt to 'keep everything in front of them'?), and it creates a huge void between the numbers 12-15-18 yards downfield. Randall is really in a sophomore slump, and needs to find the bench until he gets his head out of his ass.
The most aggravating thing is Dom's game planning and/or scheme. Their only receiving threat was Diggs and they let him run ape-chit wild. Not only did they have a poor plan for covering him, there apparently wasn't any answer when it became clear that Randall couldn't cover him. It reminded me of watching Plexico piss all over Al Harris in that playoff game vs the Giants a few years back.
And this game added to his already long list of historically bad games. No other Vikings QB in their entire history threw for as many yards in their first start as Bradford did tonight. Mull that over for a little while.
Offensively, I think Bak and Bulaga played well, but the interior guys, particularly Tretter, did not. I think Taylor did OK, but I hope you guys that watch the game the game again can give a better perspective once you have.
Lacy wound up with some decent, if not solid, rushing yards but seemed to largely disappear in the 2nd half. Starks didn't do anything (he didn't have a lot of help), and I'm already tired of seeing Cobb line up at RB as many times as he has.
And where has the Ripper been? Are we seeing more single back sets because he's hurt or nicked up?
Had good production from the TEs (excepting Cook's gaffe) when ARod actually looks for 'em. Or is this a result of play calling?
WRs are still hit-and-miss. There were some good catches made, and there are times when one is open, but there are just as many plays when they're not. I also don't understand the reluctance (or refusal) to put some speed (Abby or Davis) on the field for at least some plays. Hell, it's worth even trying a reverse with one of them.
Arod seems to have tunnel vision, not looking at all of the receivers in a pattern, and is locking in on one guy like he has his mind made up who he is going to throw to before he takes the snap. Then add in some outright terrible throws, and it's just like last year all over again.
The last thing is MM's play calls and/or game plan. Our West Coast offense has gone South, and what used to be staples of that offense seem to have been removed from the playbook. As I recall, WCO was designed to use short-to-medium passes, with just enough rushes mixed in to move the chains, sustain drives, and burn time off the clock. We see very little to none of that now. When is the last time we've used pre-snap motion? Slant passes? Crossing patterns across the middle?
And some calls just boggle the mind. That fade on the 3rd and 1....I don't know what to say. I recall when MM used to be considered really bright and innovative, but now....he just seems lame.
I thought our ILBers played well, they really react to the run & get to the hole quickly. Good point about safety so deep, Ha Ha was not involved much at all. I would have thought he would have been up more on the last third down PI play to give Randall more help in middle on slant.
+ILBs were beasts. It was a strange sight to see ILBs make plays at or behind the line. Loved it!
-The solution to the problem is Rodgers needs to be better. That's not an easy solution though. He got outplayed by Sam Bradford, there's no scheme or playcalling that can make that better. He missed normally easy throws, took too long calling plays, didn't see defenders in throwing lanes, and generally made poor decisions. He's the highest earner on the team and isn't earning any of it.
Positives? its freaking over and we can move on to next week
The run defense
The OL for the most part did well for the most part
ILB play was really good
Negatives
going for it on 4th and short deep in Vikings territory. I get being aggressive but sometimes you just have to take the points when you are on the road against a pretty darn good defense
Eddie to me still looks like he is running in we cement
I am the biggest defender of MM you will ever meet but his play calling baffles me sometimes. Some of those goofy calls are as if he has been watching college football and thinking "oh that one might work!"
Not sure who mentioned it previously but I also wonder what CJ Spiller might cost for a year?
My biggest negative is that my boss is a huge Vikings fan and I will have to hear about it for at least a week.
Boris posted:And I make an entirely valid point that talent is not the issue & all you have is "Arizona Cardinals."
Yeah, the same team that got taken to the brink by a Packer squad that lost, not just their 1st, but their 2nd, 3rd & 4th string WR's. Yet the Packers had a enough to push the Cardinals to the brink of getting bounced out of the playoffs.
Devoid of talent....laughable & Sad!
DeVoid of productive talent on the field at a certain important position hurts them a lot, though.
+++
thought the run D and LBs played pretty well
Monty block
Jordy making plays
----
Randall had a forgettable game
Rodgers was putrid
MM playcalling
Adams continues to piss me off
Suprisingly I was more annoyed at their play last week than this week but the fact remains their offense is not in sync and their pass D is pretty bad. If they can't "get it fixed" I don't think this team is SB caliber. Hopefully it's just rust from not playing much in preseason but some of their issues trace back to 2015.
+
no AD running wild, blocked kick, we were a 4th down fg (instead of going for it) away from a tie, for as bad as the db's looked, we kept this close, think of what a team with 3-4 options would do..., good to lose now I guess - get it out of your system, losing doesn't taste good, lb's were ok, 97 made a couple plays
-
lots to work on, AR was clearly off - and I don't like him calling the guys out on the field, happened a few times, wr's are not separating, time to get the fast guys in before we relapse to last year and AR doesn't trust anybody, db's were awful, turnovers are bad - fumbles/int's whatever (we will get that fixed.lol)