I'll Admit It: These Days, I'm a Favre Fan First

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With that said, thru 40 yrs of watching the Packers, watching them with Brett Favre as QB has brought more joy to my football watching than any other time in my life. He his like my kid. He makes mistakes and I want to ring his neck and when it is all said and done I want to hug him.

Beautifully said and it applies to me as well.

BUT, when I put my thinking hat on (try real hard not to romanticize things), I place Favre 6-10 all time where I would LIKE to be able to place him Top 2 or 3 all time.

Every QB makes mistakes. I remember Montana threw a pass right into a Bengal's hands in the key final drive that won their second SB over the Bengals.

So, even Montana.

But, regretfully, with thinking cap on, I just see it that Favre is a notch below because of the frequency of DECISION-MAKING mistakes.

One thing I couldn't help wondering. My mind shifted back to Starr engineering that final drive in Ice Bowl I. He was NOT going to make a mistake!!! NO WAY!!!

If I had my choice, I would rather have had that Bart Starr at the helm yesterday than Brett Favre. BUT, this makes one huge allowance. Not Starr at 38. No, that Starr could not have done it. Favre is a physical freak to be able to play at his level at 38. Elway's the only other one I can think of in that respect.

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Originally posted by Milken:

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Originally posted by Goalline:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:
There is a big part of me that would be disappointed for Brett if the Packers remain contenders - perhaps win another SB - without him.

That's truly pathetic.

There is a part of me that wishes that y'all would follow him to Misissipi after his playing days are over and cheer for him on his mower. I would say that is beyond pathetic.

Yawn....

Keep yawning half wit. Your character is as bankrupt as your moniker. Almost like you knew what you were doing.

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Keep yawning half wit.

Stop the personal attacks or get your ass out of this board - for good.

I have no idea why you have the leash you do. You transgress forum policy at a frequency that no one has rivaled.

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Originally posted by lukey:
The cultural commons bit actually cuts in favor of caring more about how some players fare than others. The team's legends are particularly salient pieces of the team's history, so the strength of their legacies is of particular importance.

He is one piece of a whole fabric. While greats like Favre stand out, it is the Chester Marcols that make for memories as well. Good and bad serve their purpose in identity. If all you can do is relish the high points and not except the low you're nothing more than a stuffed shirt bandwagon jumper.

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Originally posted by phaedrus:

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Keep yawning half wit.

Stop the personal attacks or get your ass out of this board - for good.

I have no idea why you have the leash you do. You transgress forum policy at a frequency that no one has rivaled.

Blow it out your ass closeted conspiracy priest. You want to play make believe with your life you go right ahead. I have no time for it.

I want the team to win the Superbowl next year, if that is w/o Favre, so be it. I also believe that with the core now, another year of seasoning, and some personnel upgrade, Favre could be the guy under center when they play in that Superbowl. He may have thrown a crappy pass, but he is not without skills or leadership. The day he can't do it anymore he needs to hang 'em up. This season looked to me like a guy who can still get the job done (to the tune of 28 TD, 15 INTs, and over 4,000 yards). I know he can't do it forever, but I don't hate on the guy for doing it while he can.

In summery, I understand the phenomenon of fascination with the back up QB, I also understand the hero worship, I'm just saying there is a middle ground (i.e everyone but me is wrong). Expect Favre to do what he did in most games this year and hammer him when he doesn't.

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Originally posted by phaedrus:

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Keep yawning half wit.

Stop the personal attacks or get your ass out of this board - for good.

I have no idea why you have the leash you do. You transgress forum policy at a frequency that no one has rivaled.

No Kidding. I mean, c'mon, everyone knows Michael Milken was a victim. Viva la junk bonds!

BTW, did he have the best toupe ever or what? I didn't realize he was bald until he came out of the slammer.

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:

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Originally posted by Goalline:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:
There is a big part of me that would be disappointed for Brett if the Packers remain contenders - perhaps win another SB - without him.

That's truly pathetic.

There is a part of me that wishes that y'all would follow him to Misissipi after his playing days are over and cheer for him on his mower. I would say that is beyond pathetic.

Yawn....

Keep yawning half wit. Your character is as bankrupt as your moniker. Almost like you knew what you were doing.

Is that all you can come up with? I expected much much better.

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Originally posted by Milken:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:

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Originally posted by Goalline:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:
There is a big part of me that would be disappointed for Brett if the Packers remain contenders - perhaps win another SB - without him.

That's truly pathetic.

There is a part of me that wishes that y'all would follow him to Misissipi after his playing days are over and cheer for him on his mower. I would say that is beyond pathetic.

Yawn....

Keep yawning half wit. Your character is as bankrupt as your moniker. Almost like you knew what you were doing.

Is that all you can come up with? I expected much much better.

Can only do so much with a pile of dog schit.

Elway won the Super Bowl against the Packers with about 85 yards passing. He managed the game with an excellent running game with Davis and a pressuring defense. FAvre at 38 is better than Elway at 38 but he can't carry a team like he did when he was 28. Favre at 28 would have won the game last night by himself. But with no running game or at teh very least a Coach who decided he didn't want to rely on it, a defense that was on a coffee break, Favre at 38 could not do it.

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Blow it out your ass closeted conspiracy priest. You want to play make believe with your life you go right ahead. I have no time for it.

Henry, I like ya, I really do.

You are talking apples and oranges. Fine, I am a conspiracy priest. Perhaps I am the spawn of satan himself. Irrelevant. And perhaps my life is a complete fantasy. Also irrelevant.

There are forum guidelines. Why don't you just adhere to them?

It really upsets me.

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Originally posted by Floridarob:
Elway won the Super Bowl against the Packers with about 85 yards passing. He managed the game with an excellent running game with Davis and a pressuring defense. FAvre at 38 is better than Elway at 38 but he can't carry a team like he did when he was 28. Favre at 28 would have won the game last night by himself. But with no running game or at teh very least a Coach who decided he didn't want to rely on it, a defense that was on a coffee break, Favre at 38 could not do it.

Favre wasn't even close to good last night. He was more worried about keeping his nose warm than throwing a decent pass.

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Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
Favre wasn't even close to good last night. He was more worried about keeping his nose warm than throwing a decent pass.

In his defense, the TD pass to Lee was pretty decent. And Martin could have caught that 3rd and long to put them in scoring position.

But I get your point

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Originally posted by Floridarob:
Elway won the Super Bowl against the Packers with about 85 yards passing. He managed the game with an excellent running game with Davis and a pressuring defense. FAvre at 38 is better than Elway at 38 but he can't carry a team like he did when he was 28. Favre at 28 would have won the game last night by himself. But with no running game or at teh very least a Coach who decided he didn't want to rely on it, a defense that was on a coffee break, Favre at 38 could not do it.

I absolutely agree and I certainly don't entirely blame Favre for last night's loss. I'm more pissed at MM for lack of preparation. But if all one can wish for is Favre's well being then you're going to be sadly disappointed and looking to make excuses for him. He's a great player and still has a ton of skills but he is a part of that failure. I want to see Driver get a ring. If there is a guy on this team that deserves it more than Favre it's Driver. He doesn't have a ring and all the guy has done is put up incredibly numbers for a 7th round pick out of Alcorn State. He's f'in fantastic! But he's only one guy and needs Favre just like Favre needs him. How do you not root for a guy like Driver? How do you throw your lot behind one player?

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:

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Originally posted by Goalline:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:
There is a big part of me that would be disappointed for Brett if the Packers remain contenders - perhaps win another SB - without him.

That's truly pathetic.

There is a part of me that wishes that y'all would follow him to Misissipi after his playing days are over and cheer for him on his mower. I would say that is beyond pathetic.

Yawn....

Keep yawning half wit. Your character is as bankrupt as your moniker. Almost like you knew what you were doing.

Is that all you can come up with? I expected much much better.

Can only do so much with a pile of dog schit.

You are an angry person - let go of your hate...

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Originally posted by Milken:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:

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Originally posted by Goalline:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Milken:
There is a big part of me that would be disappointed for Brett if the Packers remain contenders - perhaps win another SB - without him.

That's truly pathetic.

There is a part of me that wishes that y'all would follow him to Misissipi after his playing days are over and cheer for him on his mower. I would say that is beyond pathetic.

Yawn....

Keep yawning half wit. Your character is as bankrupt as your moniker. Almost like you knew what you were doing.

Is that all you can come up with? I expected much much better.

Can only do so much with a pile of dog schit.

You are an angry person - let go of your hate...

Write a book, you'll make 50 cents.

meant as reply to GBFanforlife


didn't say he was close to good but exactly what help did he have. I would say the pass to Ruvell Martin was excellent except that Martin clanked it off his hands. They had no running game. They had no pass rush. It wasn't all on FAvre. It was a team loss. I would blame the loss on 1-McCarthys play calling 2-defensive non pressure-3-offensive line -4 running game or lack thereof- 5-Favre.

I'm off to kick some puppies and do some day trading.

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Floridarob:
Elway won the Super Bowl against the Packers with about 85 yards passing. He managed the game with an excellent running game with Davis and a pressuring defense. FAvre at 38 is better than Elway at 38 but he can't carry a team like he did when he was 28. Favre at 28 would have won the game last night by himself. But with no running game or at teh very least a Coach who decided he didn't want to rely on it, a defense that was on a coffee break, Favre at 38 could not do it.

I absolutely agree and I certainly don't entirely blame Favre for last night's loss. I'm more pissed at MM for lack of preparation. But if all one can wish for is Favre's well being then you're going to be sadly disappointed and looking to make excuses for him. He's a great player and still has a ton of skills but he is a part of that failure. I want to see Driver get a ring. If there is a guy on this team that deserves it more than Favre it's Driver. He doesn't have a ring and all the guy has done is put up incredibly numbers for a 7th round pick out of Alcorn State. He's f'in fantastic! But he's only one guy and needs Favre just like Favre needs him. How do you not root for a guy like Driver? How do you throw your lot behind one player?

That and the lack of adjustments. Fine to have a game-plan, sucks to not deviate from it when it doesn't work.

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Originally posted by Henry:

I absolutely agree and I certainly don't entirely blame Favre for last night's loss. I'm more pissed at MM for lack of preparation. But if all one can wish for is Favre's well being then you're going to be sadly disappointed and looking to make excuses for him. He's a great player and still has a ton of skills but he is a part of that failure. I want to see Driver get a ring. If there is a guy on this team that deserves it more than Favre it's Driver. He doesn't have a ring and all the guy has done is put up incredibly numbers for a 7th round pick out of Alcorn State. He's f'in fantastic! But he's only one guy and needs Favre just like Favre needs him. How do you not root for a guy like Driver? How do you throw your lot behind one player?

Our coach looked young last night. I think he may over analyze things. Why not go with what worked last time, instead of trying to surprise the Giants with a different scheme this time.

And, while I love Driver, I want Tauscher to get a ring. They guy does his job, day in and day out with little accolade. He is the one I felt worst for last night. Tausch has been a 7th round blessing for Packer fans.

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Originally posted by Hungry5:

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by Floridarob:
Elway won the Super Bowl against the Packers with about 85 yards passing. He managed the game with an excellent running game with Davis and a pressuring defense. FAvre at 38 is better than Elway at 38 but he can't carry a team like he did when he was 28. Favre at 28 would have won the game last night by himself. But with no running game or at teh very least a Coach who decided he didn't want to rely on it, a defense that was on a coffee break, Favre at 38 could not do it.

I absolutely agree and I certainly don't entirely blame Favre for last night's loss. I'm more pissed at MM for lack of preparation. But if all one can wish for is Favre's well being then you're going to be sadly disappointed and looking to make excuses for him. He's a great player and still has a ton of skills but he is a part of that failure. I want to see Driver get a ring. If there is a guy on this team that deserves it more than Favre it's Driver. He doesn't have a ring and all the guy has done is put up incredibly numbers for a 7th round pick out of Alcorn State. He's f'in fantastic! But he's only one guy and needs Favre just like Favre needs him. How do you not root for a guy like Driver? How do you throw your lot behind one player?

That and the lack of adjustments. Fine to have a game-plan, sucks to not deviate from it when it doesn't work.

which is a surprise after watching him this year. He really did make adjustments thru the year but last night he definetely had a brain freeze. The first giant game he made adjustments but last night he kept calling the same non worknig plays. Screen-Screen, screen, deep pass-Not one slant pattern that I remember. Totally out of character from watching MM this year....

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Originally posted by Floridarob:
meant as reply to GBFanforlife


didn't say he was close to good but exactly what help did he have. I would say the pass to Ruvell Martin was excellent except that Martin clanked it off his hands. They had no running game. They had no pass rush. It wasn't all on FAvre. It was a team loss. I would blame the loss on 1-McCarthys play calling 2-defensive non pressure-3-offensive line -4 running game or lack thereof- 5-Favre.

I'm not sure why people think that the pass to Martin was that catchable. In perfect conditions it would have been a good grab. In my opinion McCarthy's play calling and Favre's play last night go hand in hand with last nights loss. For some reason McCarthy decided not to run in this game and that was the plan from the start. Favre has a choice in who to throw to. He made quite a few inexcusable throws along with flat out missing open guys. There were quite a few hits on Manning, he just made plays.

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Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
I'm not sure why people think that the pass to Martin was that catchable. In perfect conditions it would have been a good grab.

It hit both of his hands. The conditions didn't seem to bother Burress or Toomer very much. I'm not signalling that play out as why we lost, but it was a catchable ball and it sure would have helped.

I will be sorry to see Brett go. The biggest reason for their success over the last 15 years. I've been a Packers fan for 45 years and I say Thank You to Brett for what he has done for the Packers!

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Originally posted by Max:

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Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
I'm not sure why people think that the pass to Martin was that catchable. In perfect conditions it would have been a good grab.

It hit both of his hands. The conditions didn't seem to bother Burress or Toomer very much. I'm not signalling that play out as why we lost, but it was a catchable ball and it sure would have helped.

Yep. The Giants handled the cold better than the Packers. That's a problem when you play for a team that resides in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Having to rely on the arm of 38 year old after he's played 4 quarters in sub-zero temperatures is a recipe for disaster (also after playing 14 games during the season). In general, the NFL is a young man's game (so says the Master of the Obvious). Without a running game or a short passing game, the Packers were hosed. If they can't figure out a way to rely less on Brett next year, then we should expect the same next January, should they be so fortunate to get into the playoffs.

That being said, I'll be happy if Favre sticks around and they support him better. His game experience and leadership are very valuable.

But I would be equally happy if he decides to hang it up; I think a younger QB can bring some things to the table that Favre never will due to his physical limitations (running threat, less fatigue, etc.).

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Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
I'm not sure why people think that the pass to Martin was that catchable. In perfect conditions it would have been a good grab.

It hit him square in the hands and in stride. Cripes, a Pop Warner kid should make that catch 99 times out of 100, let alone a professional player.

Actually, receivers on both teams dropped more than their fair share of catchable balls. It's hard to catch a brick.

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Originally posted by lukey:
Actually, receivers on both teams dropped more than their fair share of catchable balls. It's hard to catch a brick.

You've obviously never tried to deliver my stand-up routine.

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Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:

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Originally posted by Henry:

I absolutely agree and I certainly don't entirely blame Favre for last night's loss. I'm more pissed at MM for lack of preparation. But if all one can wish for is Favre's well being then you're going to be sadly disappointed and looking to make excuses for him. He's a great player and still has a ton of skills but he is a part of that failure. I want to see Driver get a ring. If there is a guy on this team that deserves it more than Favre it's Driver. He doesn't have a ring and all the guy has done is put up incredibly numbers for a 7th round pick out of Alcorn State. He's f'in fantastic! But he's only one guy and needs Favre just like Favre needs him. How do you not root for a guy like Driver? How do you throw your lot behind one player?

Our coach looked young last night. I think he may over analyze things. Why not go with what worked last time, instead of trying to surprise the Giants with a different scheme this time.

And, while I love Driver, I want Tauscher to get a ring. They guy does his job, day in and day out with little accolade. He is the one I felt worst for last night. Tausch has been a 7th round blessing for Packer fans.

Absolutely! How can you not root just as hard for all of these guys?

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Originally posted by Henry:


Absolutely! How can you not root just as hard for all of these guys?

Agreed; this Packer team is one of the easiest to root for. Good character, young talent, chemistry, low ego, etc. Think back to some of the turds we've endured. Bill Schroeder? Joe Johnson? Wayne Simmons? Chris Atkins? Joey Thomas? Ahmad Carroll?

Or imagine being a Bengals fan!

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:

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Originally posted by Henry:

I absolutely agree and I certainly don't entirely blame Favre for last night's loss. I'm more pissed at MM for lack of preparation. But if all one can wish for is Favre's well being then you're going to be sadly disappointed and looking to make excuses for him. He's a great player and still has a ton of skills but he is a part of that failure. I want to see Driver get a ring. If there is a guy on this team that deserves it more than Favre it's Driver. He doesn't have a ring and all the guy has done is put up incredibly numbers for a 7th round pick out of Alcorn State. He's f'in fantastic! But he's only one guy and needs Favre just like Favre needs him. How do you not root for a guy like Driver? How do you throw your lot behind one player?

Our coach looked young last night. I think he may over analyze things. Why not go with what worked last time, instead of trying to surprise the Giants with a different scheme this time.

And, while I love Driver, I want Tauscher to get a ring. They guy does his job, day in and day out with little accolade. He is the one I felt worst for last night. Tausch has been a 7th round blessing for Packer fans.

Absolutely! How can you not root just as hard for all of these guys?

I don't think that rooting for FAvre means that you aren't rooting just as hard for Tauscher, Clifton, Driver, DAvis, Woodson, Harris or the 53rd player on the roster. But we look at those players with at least 5 yrs left with a possiblity to get back to the Championship game. FAvre might have played his last game for Green bay last night. His window of opportunity is less than the other players mentioned. And while those players have a lot of game left, FAvre at 38 is probably is closer to age hitting him than any of the other players.

When Elway won his Super Bowl at 38, I am sure that Denver fans were just a little more happy for Elway than for Shannon Sharpe only because of the time left. If this was FAvre 5th or 6th year, I am sure most would say they would be rooting harder for Driver, Clifton or Taucher or maybe even Rob Davis.

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So yeah, I admit it. I wanted this team in the Super Bowl, but a little bit more I wanted Favre to be a guy who went to Super Bowls a decade apart. And I can't see things working out as well for us next year. I'll be a very happy Packers fan if we get to the Super Bowl in 2011 with Rodgers or somebody else at QB, but it won't be as sweet as this would have been.

Go ahead and tell me I'm a bad Packers fan. I can take it.

I think it's fine to be a Favre fan. As great as he has been, an all-time great, and a player that will proudly be placed in the ring of honor when he is a first-ballot HOFer, there will always be a part of his legacy that will include almost as many monumental failures as triumphs. Most will say that it was his nature, even writing it off as such. We took the good with the bad for Favre's entire career in GB, and he has been the identity of this franchise most of that time. There is nothing to be ashamed about at all.

But winning a Championship to me is just as great with or without him.

I don't think that Aaron Rodgers will ever be better than Favre, because few will, but I hope he plays big in the big games. If you compare their statistical performances, Favre is far superior to a lot of QBs who played better in the biggest games. It only means he is what he is.

Brett Favre has been a lot of things in his career- most of them great- but the one thing he has not been is clutch in the biggest games. I'm OK with that, I guess. It's better than the alternative.

I have a tatoo on my left calf. It is the Packer G. It's a safe tat, cuz the team will never leave, and unlike players the Pack represents a great history.

Players may leave, retire, or make mistakes in their personal life during or after their career. Who would want an OJ tatoo for example.

Anyway IMHO, Packer First, Players second... thats the way Lombardi would have it.

(I got my tatoo at Rick's which got some free publicity on Fox last night!)

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Originally posted by Herschel:

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Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
I'm not sure why people think that the pass to Martin was that catchable. In perfect conditions it would have been a good grab.

It hit him square in the hands and in stride. Cripes, a Pop Warner kid should make that catch 99 times out of 100, let alone a professional player.

Then they should start signing pop warner players. Your memory is definitely different than mine. If it is in stride it is dropping right in the breadbasket. He had to reach up to grab it and there were also defenders right on him.

You're right there were defenders right there, which is what makes the throw even more impressive. He had to "reach up" to grab it? Sure, but we're not talking about him fully extending or laying out. It was a perfect throw that he dropped.

Again, I'm not blaming that one play, and there's a reason Martin is our No. 4 or 5 wideout. Jennings makes that catch 9 times out of 10. Still, the throw was there and I think Martin would agree he should have caught the thing, and more often than not he probably does.

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Originally posted by Max:
You're right there were defenders right there, which is what makes the throw even more impressive. He had to "reach up" to grab it? Sure, but we're not talking about him fully extending or laying out. It was a perfect throw that he dropped.

Again, I'm not blaming that one play, and there's a reason Martin is our No. 4 or 5 wideout. Jennings makes that catch 9 times out of 10. Still, the throw was there and I think Martin would agree he should have caught the thing, and more often than not he probably does.

My comments are only because people are acting as if it was the simplest catch in the world and like it was some major turning point in the game. Favre missed on more passes than were dropped and also made some piss poor decisions and even got lucky that the Giants fumbled the ball back on the one interception.

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Originally posted by Music City:
Brett Favre has been a lot of things in his career- most of them great- but the one thing he has not been is clutch in the biggest games.

I don't know if that's entirely accurate. Granted, he did have some rough games recently (St. Louis, Atlanta, and Minnesota stand out) where he clearly was trying to do too much.

But he's also shined in some of his biggest games. For example:
*The first playoff game on the road at Detroit, where he finds Sharpe in the final minute to win the game
*The divisional playoff win at San Francisco, where the Packers knocked off the defending champ Niners. He posted a 133 QB rating in that game -- a game that put the Packers on the map and ended the Cowboy / Niner stranglehold
*Two of his four conference championship games (Carolina and at San Fran) where he had a 108 and 98 QB rating respectively
*The two Super Bowls -- he posted a 108 QB ranking in his 1st one and a 91 in his 2nd one

All in all 1/2 of his 22 playoff games have QB ratings over 90. Maybe he lacks the last second comeback of a Montana or Elway, but I don't know if that makes him unclutch.

In the last several seasons, Favre has been terrific against San Francisco and Seattle (twice). Terrible against the Rams and and Vikings. Mediocre against the Eagles and and Giants. The impression that he's actually been bad is erroneous.