Is this the turning point?

Murphy is concerned with blowing Rog and maximizing profits.  He's tits on a bull. 

Yup

No way on Gods green earth will Ted Thompson nor Mike McCarthy will ever get fired...welcome back to the 70s and 80s folks

That's a huge stretch.  Did you watch that crap in the 70s and 80s?

They are 5-5. If they somehow get to 7-6 (when AR may be able to return), there will likely be little change in the off-season.

Next SNF, at PIT, should be a loss. It would have been a tough game with Rodgers.

I think McCarthy is coaching for his job from here out. I wonder if Thompson was really close to signing Hoyer and McCarthy convinced him the QB situation was enough to win with?

Fire Ted. Hire John Dorsey as GM.

Fire Capers. Go find a competent DC, even if that means switching to a 4-3.

Allow MM to remain for the last year of his contract (see Mike Sherman). Depending on his performance in 2018 will determine if he's extended.

Honestly, a new DC and a GM like Dorsey who would use free agency and who knows how to build defenses probably fixes 99 percent of what is ailing the Packers.

A healthy Rodgers, Aaron Jones, and MM calling plays fixes anything on offense. To me, the biggest issues are on defense, bad draft picks from 2012-present, and a refusal to dip into FA (aside from cheap contracts).

Dorsey or a GM with that type of mind set likely fixes much of that.

I really don’t want to see Rodgers starting over from square one at 34 and have to learn an entire system. I wish Mike hadn’t been so damned loyal to a staff full of mediocre washouts. Is it possible Rodgers would have looked even better with a legitimate offensive coordinator? Rodgers has continued to put up video game numbers with Bennett but let’s be honest. The offense has looked like grinding gears spewing metal shavings for some time now even with Rodgers. I think GB was 27th in total offense in 2017 before Aaron went down. 

Mike isn’t going to sit Hundley. It’s not happening. But if Spriggs starts at RT on the road in Pittsburgh Sunday night that decision might be taken out of his hands. 

But for the sake of hypotheticals. Let’s say Hundley plays out the remainder of the year and it’s a continuation of his starts thus far. Can Mike even come back? Would he be able to coach a team after it’s become indisputably clear his success is totally reliant on one player? Would he want to listen to that noise for the rest of his time in GB? I don’t think he would. Or maybe more to the point, could. 

This probably isn’t a discussion if Hundley looks capable and the offense is competitive. Right now it’s neither. I think it’s fair to say Mike has 6 weeks to save his job. 

I have no problem with Dom hitting the bricks.....should have been done a couple of yrs ago.  Ted is getting near the end but why all the clamor for young Wolf?  What do we really know about him?   But IMO think long and hard about getting rid of Mike.....the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.   The young guy in LA is an anomaly,the guys in Buffalo and Tampa and Denver are the rule.

No way TT/MM get fired. Some assistants should get fired, and may retire instead.

The turning point will happen when Rodgers decides to retire. When Rodgers retires, I think MM and TT both retire.

Rodgers turns 34 in a few weeks and, despite claiming he wants to play until he's 40, I think he'll retire before then. Maybe he plays 3 more years? Another season lost to injury may speed that up. He's broken collarbones twice and had another season impaired by a calf injury in the last 5 years. He doesn't play like Tom Brady who can just drop back and stand there picking out open receivers. Rodgers is all about mobility within the pocket. When that goes, it could go quick.

It will be a LONG slog to rebuild this offense. Nelson has maybe a year or two left, same with Cobb. Adams is a nice piece to build with, but is not a star level #1. They have no RB that's produced beyond 2-3 games in their career, no long-term answer at TE, and have to replace two starting OL in the next year or so (Bulaga and J. Evans). You have to wonder if Rodgers will want to stick around to break in a new set of WRs, TEs, and RBs. They decided to gamble on stacking the defense with high draft picks the last 5 years and roll with their young (back in 2010-11) nucleus of offensive talent and get by with developing more mid or late round receiver - none of which other than Adams (round 2) panned out (Abbrederis, Janis, T. Davis, Allison, Charles Johnson, Kevin Dorsey).

If you really wanted to set things up for the long term, Rodgers can be traded after this season with no cap hit....... They need an infusion of young talent on offense and that's the only way it's going to happen without Rodger's retiring and bottoming out for 2-3 years.

Pboi, no problem with Capers going, just not sure the D talent is the issue.

I just think it’s hilarious how people talk about how we need to get younger when we have a draft and develop system in place. So what does that tell? Thompson is well beyond his prime and probably should ride off into the sunset with Domb. Lets get Dorsey back in here and right this ship

The offense is McCarthy's, not sure how much Bennett adds/subtracts from that. I think his role is 3rd down scheming.

YooperPackfan posted:

I just think it’s hilarious how people talk about how we need to get younger when we have a draft and develop system in place. So what does that tell? Thompson is well beyond his prime and probably should ride off into the sunset with Domb. Lets get Dorsey back in here and right this ship

I agree. Other than D. Adams, what offensive skill position player on their roster have they developed in the last 6 years? They've drafted a bunch of mid and low round WRs, RBs, and TEs. The jury is still out on the RBs, but no one has appeared to develop. Janis and T. Davis, probably the two fastest players they have, can't get on the field for offensive snaps and both have been around for multiple training camps.

Janis has done more with his abilities than anyone could have asked for. WRs with his skills rarely make it beyond 2 years of PS. His gunner work is why he has stuck around.

This is Davis's 2nd season. Never thought he was brought in to be a top 3 WR, just a good returner who could contribute at the 4 spot when called upon.

Hungry5 posted:

Pboi, no problem with Capers going, just not sure the D talent is the issue.

I don't know if it's purely a lack of talent issue (I doubt that) on defense or it's mostly coaching/scheming or it's some combination but at this point, I don't frankly care.

Someone with outside eyes needs to look at this roster and give an objective assessment of what they believe GB has.

Too many of the "leadership" here has been staring at the trees in Green Bay. IMO, they outsiders at GM and DC (at least) to look at the forest.

I don't buy into MM "coaching for his job" for the remainder of the season.  Only way he gets canned is the right guy happens to be available or presents himself as someone TT or his successor couldn't pass up.  They will not fire him for the sake of change.  That's not how this organization works. 

Unless he completely loses the team and it shows on the field.  That would be his other google maps directions back to the tollway.

Packers 2016 record after 10 games: 4-6

Packers 2017 record after 10 games: 5-5

No Rodgers in 2017 to run the table. McCarthy needs to figure out another way to get some W's.

Henry posted:

That's a huge stretch.  Did you watch that crap in the 70s and 80s?

Exactly!  Back then the entire organization from top to bottom had no hope whatsoever.   The front office was a mess with no direction, the coaching staffs were horrible and players didn't want to play there. 

I think many Packers fans need to read this site:

http://www.the-kramerfamily.co...l+y6VPSC1oSy6S1wl4A=

For those of fans who didn't live though that era needs to read this to understand how hopeless things were then.  The Packers were a clown show from top to bottom back then.

The only place they are not a clown show now is the IR.

ChilliJon posted:

I really don’t want to see Rodgers starting over from square one at 34 and have to learn an entire system.

TT started over fresh with a new coach for Favre at 36. It had to be done, Sherman needed to be fired, even though he had a lot of great offenses. Mike McCarthy needs to be fired, even though he's had a lot of great offenses. Rodgers is going to flourish in any NFL offense. He can make any offensive play caller look great.

Hungry5 posted:

Janis has done more with his abilities than anyone could have asked for. WRs with his skills rarely make it beyond 2 years of PS. His gunner work is why he has stuck around.

This is Davis's 2nd season. Never thought he was brought in to be a top 3 WR, just a good returner who could contribute at the 4 spot when called upon.

Completely agree on Janis. The problem with keeping Davis and Janis is that those spots are not used on someone that could develop (and become the next Donald Driver type) into a contributor at WR.

What is Janis's problem?  

Pack-Man posted:

ChilliJon posted:

I really don’t want to see Rodgers starting over from square one at 34 and have to learn an entire system.

 Rodgers is going to flourish in any NFL offense. He can make any offensive play caller look great.

Like he’s been doing since 2008?

MichiganPacker posted:

... If you really wanted to set things up for the long term, Rodgers can be traded after this season with no cap hit....... They need an infusion of young talent on offense and that's the only way it's going to happen without Rodger's retiring and bottoming out for 2-3 years.

No. Unless Rodgers demands out or is quite physically diminished.

12 is arguably the greatest player in franchise history and the most talented QB ever. Only 14, 15 and 26 are in the conversation with him for most outstanding Packer player, as far as I am concerned. Call me a sentimentalist but you keep 12 until he hangs them up or he just can't perform anymore. 

The turning point was when Rodgers got tackled.

Henry posted:

Murphy is concerned with blowing Rog and maximizing profits.  He's tits on a bull. 

I personally think this year could be the tipping point because the natives are restless. The 'time-for-a-change' crowd has only been growing and Murphy hears this. The club was able to dismiss the Seattle debacle as a fluke and last year to injuries but if this collapse continues, there will be no excuses.

They also have the built in excuse for TT due to his age. They could do the classic, step down but stay on as a consultant thing with him. M3 is another story. That would depend on the new GM. Dorsey maybe would have a KC person in mind.

ilcuqui posted:

MichiganPacker posted:

... If you really wanted to set things up for the long term, Rodgers can be traded after this season with no cap hit....... They need an infusion of young talent on offense and that's the only way it's going to happen without Rodger's retiring and bottoming out for 2-3 years.

No. Unless Rodgers demands out or is quite physically diminished.

12 is arguably the greatest player in franchise history and the most talented QB ever. Only 14, 15 and 26 are in the conversation with him for most outstanding Packer player, as far as I am concerned. Call me a sentimentalist but you keep 12 until he hangs them up or he just can't perform anymore. 

I agree that I'd like to keep him as long as possible - especially since the next GB starting QB is not currently on their roster. I just threw that trade longshot out there since I thought it was odd they structured his contract so there was no cap hit to trade him or have him retire after this year.

Tough call on MM. I think he's a really good coach who would have multiple offers within the hour should he be pushed out. If anything needs a "housecleaning," it should be Dom and several other assistants: offense, defense, and STs. MM has been too loyal to too many of them for far too long and has not brought in any new blood in a meaningful position for a long time. He's brought in guys in minor positions, but those folks have little impact. Just promoting from within sounds like a good thing, but I think it's reached a point of staleness that's showing up on the field. 

If MM can't see that, or doesn't want to jettison several folks on his staff, then he needs to be gone... unfortunately.

GBFanForLife posted:

The turning point was when Rodgers got tackled. picked off the ground, then body slammed on the ground, and rolled over on well after releasing the ball.

FTFY

Pikes Peak posted:

What is Janis's problem?  

No problem. He is what he is - Jarrett Bush 2.0.

The Heckler posted:

Henry posted:

That's a huge stretch.  Did you watch that crap in the 70s and 80s?

Exactly!  Back then the entire organization from top to bottom had no hope whatsoever.   The front office was a mess with no direction, the coaching staffs were horrible and players didn't want to play there. 

I think many Packers fans need to read this site:

http://www.the-kramerfamily.co...l+y6VPSC1oSy6S1wl4A=

For those of fans who didn't live though that era needs to read this to understand how hopeless things were then.  The Packers were a clown show from top to bottom back then.

Without #12 to cover up the lack of talent, the team looks just as directionless and bad as it did in the 70s & 80s.

Mediocre defense year after year without any real identity.

No offensive stars outside of the QB, just blah, boring football.

Eric Torkelson, Randy Wright, and yes Steve Luke would all recognize the product on the field yesterday.

As far as players not wanting to play in Green Bay, pretty sure we just saw that in action with Martellus Bennett not wanting to play for the Pack once Rodgers went down.

Fandame posted:

Tough call on MM. I think he's a really good coach who would have multiple offers within the hour should he be pushed out.

Based on what we've seen from him without a HOF QB, I don't see him being a highly successful football coach elsewhere - without a HOF QB. Of course, owners/GMs everywhere think they have a HOF QB, these QBs are just needing a highly successful football coach to get that HOF play.

McCarthy would immediately get another job if the Packers fired him, but it would be with a team like the Browns or Jets. He'd be fired in 2 or 3 years, and it would be the last NFL head coaching job he would ever get.

Pack-Man posted:

McCarthy would immediately get another job if the Packers fired him, but it would be with a team like the Browns or Jets. He'd be fired in 2 or 3 years, and it would be the last NFL head coaching job he would ever get.

Billy B loves him some MM. It's far fetched, but if MM was shown the door I could see BB offering to make him the highest paid OC in the league with the mission of developing Brady's successor. He sells it to Kraft by telling him that when Tom retires, BB can either play with the new kid or have MM in the queue to succeed him. Appeal if any to MM is that he gets to QB coach, which he loves, make coin while not being the front man, and learn from the best coach in the league since Vince.

It will never happen though.

Mike McCarthy sucks at recognizing QB talent and developing it. He is the nitwit who watched and nurtured Brett Hundley for 3 years and thought he was an NFL quarterback. That "QB guru" garbage we always hear in the media is a BS myth that needs to die. He didn't make Aaron Rodgers, I don't know how anyone who has watched the games without him could believe McCarthy made him. McCarthy just didn't ruin him, that's all I am willing to credit him for.

I have always been a MM supporter and thought the "fire MM" chants and threads were a bit over the top.

However, after listening to yesterday's post-game press conference (read my thread about it) it's clear he has the wrong mentality for this organization now. Without Rodgers he makes terrible personnel decisions and his defiance in "stick with my guy" is destroying our season and hurting our organization.

Stubbornness has no place here.

Pack-Man posted:

Mike McCarthy sucks at recognizing QB talent and developing it. He is the nitwit who watched and nurtured Brett Hundley for 3 years and thought he was an NFL quarterback. That "QB guru" garbage we always hear in the media is a BS myth that needs to die.

All I know is that he resurrected Rich Gannon's career, retooled Favre, and took Rodgers (who was TERRIBLE his first couple seasons) from potential bust to the best player in the league. 

So I don't agree with you. H5 mentioned earlier in an other thread that Mike's QB school was scuppered by the new CBA a few years ago. I think there is a lot to that.

It's time.

it has gotten to the point that it is prudent to unload TT and MM.  It is time to move on.

Not to mention play calling and time management.