great quarterbacks create great receivers.
This to me is the ultimate over reaction from yesterday:
https://twitter.com/AaronNagle.../1581702844742533120
Anyone who thinks this team is as bad as those 70s and 80s teams need to lay off the cheap booze.
I watched the Rodgers presser as well and thought he was fairly diplomatic, but he still has some of that passive aggressive nature about him including taking cryptic swipes toward others.
Having time to reflect this weekend there are a lot of similarities between the Badgers woes and Packers woes. Failure to execute. Inconsistent play at QB. Too many mistakes and penalties. Totally overrated OL play. Defense on paper that should be playing a lot better than they have but aren’t.
In the case of UW, I don’t see a quick fix because the West has gotten better and clearly they don’t have the level of talent due to recruiting. It’s tough to turn that around in a year or two even with the transfer portal.
With the Packers, the NFL is a year to year deal and you can turn things around a lot quicker but it just seems like there’s bad mojo with this team and the Saleh comments are damning. I don’t know how you can coach toughness but clearly this team has issues with opponents that want to get physical and play bully ball.
In retrospect, I understand the PR hit trading Rodgers but Seattle is managing just fine and they will be able to reload fairly quickly. Ironically, Russ Wilson and Rodgers are probably more similar in terms of their quirky nature than we would have guessed. If this is a .500 level team (with Rodgers) they made a big mistake not dealing him.
@Tschmack posted:I watched the Rodgers presser as well and thought he was fairly diplomatic, but he still has some of that passive aggressive nature about him including taking cryptic swipes toward others.
Having time to reflect this weekend there are a lot of similarities between the Badgers woes and Packers woes. Failure to execute. Inconsistent play at QB. Too many mistakes and penalties. Totally overrated OL play. Defense on paper that should be playing a lot better than they have but aren’t.
In the case of UW, I don’t see a quick fix because the West has gotten better and clearly they don’t have the level of talent due to recruiting. It’s tough to turn that around in a year or two even with the transfer portal.
With the Packers, the NFL is a year to year deal and you can turn things around a lot quicker but it just seems like there’s bad mojo with this team and the Saleh comments are damning. I don’t know how you can coach toughness but clearly this team has issues with opponents that want to get physical and play bully ball.
In retrospect, I understand the PR hit trading Rodgers but Seattle is managing just fine and they will be able to reload fairly quickly. Ironically, Russ Wilson and Rodgers are probably more similar in terms of their quirky nature than we would have guessed. If this is a .500 level team (with Rodgers) they made a big mistake not dealing him.
The UW and Packers comparison is spot on. One big thing with both of these teams is a lack execution and especially a lack of toughness.
As you said how can you teach toughness but they need to find it soon because there is one common theme is that teams that play them tough and push them around they buckle under physical play.
@Tschmack posted:I watched the Rodgers presser as well and thought he was fairly diplomatic, but he still has some of that passive aggressive nature about him including taking cryptic swipes toward others.
Having time to reflect this weekend there are a lot of similarities between the Badgers woes and Packers woes. Failure to execute. Inconsistent play at QB. Too many mistakes and penalties. Totally overrated OL play. Defense on paper that should be playing a lot better than they have but aren’t.
In the case of UW, I don’t see a quick fix because the West has gotten better and clearly they don’t have the level of talent due to recruiting. It’s tough to turn that around in a year or two even with the transfer portal.
With the Packers, the NFL is a year to year deal and you can turn things around a lot quicker but it just seems like there’s bad mojo with this team and the Saleh comments are damning. I don’t know how you can coach toughness but clearly this team has issues with opponents that want to get physical and play bully ball.
In retrospect, I understand the PR hit trading Rodgers but Seattle is managing just fine and they will be able to reload fairly quickly. Ironically, Russ Wilson and Rodgers are probably more similar in terms of their quirky nature than we would have guessed. If this is a .500 level team (with Rodgers) they made a big mistake not dealing him.
You lied to us.
Vic Ketchman had a theory that because this team has had offensive coaches for so long that the D always takes a back seat, which leads to their lack of toughness. The D didn't have an issue with toughness late last year and vs SF in the playoffs. I don't know what their deal is now other than maybe just getting tired of the O not holding up its end. Or maybe they're losing faith in their DC.
When players have to confront a coach on a plane after a game about the entire defensive scheme, it speaks to lack of buy-in into said coach’s scheme. The offense is a separate can of worms, although the ineptness of the O definitely hurts the D. And the STs continue to have breakdowns, albeit slightly better than the dumpster fire of years past. It feels as though the head coach is losing his team, and that’s where the physicality and resolve of literally all of the other teams overcomes the pretty talented, but listless and uninspired Packers team. It’s hard to pinpoint how high up in the org the rot goes, but as many have said on X4, from Murphy on down, it seems like the org is limited in its ability to put together a championship outfit. The Super Bowl window is closed, and the future is cloudy.
@The Heckler posted:This to me is the ultimate over reaction from yesterday:
https://twitter.com/AaronNagle.../1581702844742533120
Anyone who thinks this team is as bad as those 70s and 80s teams need to lay off the cheap booze.
That's what you get for following Nagler
@RochNyFan posted:For the love of God, though, get that mullet-head #70 out of there. He was useless picking up the Jets' stunts.
Will have a story on this later today after open locker room at 1:30 and LaFleur at 3, but re-watching yesterday's game it looks like the Packers' offensive line had never seen a stunt in its life. Good heavens.
— Matt Schneidman (@mattschneidman) October 17, 2022
Stunts were a problem for the entire line.
The social media fanboys, usually supporting MLF in full throat, are in clutching the pearls after the Jets loss.
Of course, it's all 12's fault still.
@michiganjoe posted:Will have a story on this later today after open locker room at 1:30 and LaFleur at 3, but re-watching yesterday's game it looks like the Packers' offensive line had never seen a stunt in its life. Good heavens.
— Matt Schneidman (@mattschneidman) October 17, 2022Stunts were a problem for the entire line.
One of the Jets' late sacks came on a twist and, watching the replay, The Mullet completely abandoned his area of the pocket to double the guy Jenkins was already easily handling. Gave a clean lane right to Rodgers.
@Chongo posted:The social media fanboys, usually supporting MLF in full throat, are in clutching the pearls after the Jets loss.
Of course, it's all 12's fault still.
Packer PR crew telling the beat writers that if they want to continue with their (limited) access it is time to start noting the "coaching" failures.
Ain't no way those occupying the suites at 1265 Lombardi Ave want the beats looking into the talent deficiencies or the "wisdom" of that off-season contract they gave to Rodge.
MLF will be just fine as long as he remains steadfast in his loyalty to Gute & Murph and does not in any way call their fantastic work into question.
MLF knows who just gave him that big new contract.
If I hear 'we didn't execute " one more time, I'll vomit. WTF does that mean? If all 22 executed perfectly all the time, a team would never lose. The crux of the issue comes down to "unable to execute" vs "didn't". Too many of the Packers are starting to fall into the former, including some of the coaches. Friggen switch up the oline combo and start featuring Aaron Jones....he's your best weapon, rather than the other Aaron. Four touches in a half is criminal.
I think a lot of things have transpired that have put the Packers in this situation; however, I wonder if the loss of multiple coordinators/coaches has caused a trickle down regression. Stenovich, I'm assuming, has less hands on with the O-line, and they look terrible. He may also be struggling as OC. Just a thought
@Chongo posted:The social media fanboys, usually supporting MLF in full throat, are in clutching the pearls after the Jets loss.
Of course, it's all 12's fault still.
Even if 12 is fucking up MLF is to blame. He is the boss, isn't he?
look at the body language of the team . it just looks like theyre going through the motions. Not sure if its 12 or MLF issue but the mindset and approach is just wrong.
its almost as if we're expecting to make the playoffs and will just turn it on once we get there. Would explain horrid starts to seasons and all the "RELAX" mantras needed midseason.
ON the other side look at the JETS and Saleh. They were embarrassed week 1 at home and responded with a "taking names" approach that has seen them whip asses at Miami and GB past 2 weeks. Maybe its anecdotal and Im not holding the Jets org up as anything to follow, just noted from a coaching aspect.
This team needs a sense of urgency and a fire lit under them.....every game. Just not sure , like everything else, if its Rodgers issue or MLF issue, but I know for damn sure its MLF responsibility
If the Packers don't beat the Commodores, somebody needs to be fired!
It may also be time to ask if Rodgers is a coach-killer on this team by not taking what's given and executing the plays as they're called, and for having a bad attitude.
Too often he's looking for a big chunk play when they don't have the WRs right now, he doesn't have the time, and he doesn't trust his WRs anyway. I watch him now and I see him doing the same things as he did under MM. Rodgers went all playground and basically did what he wanted under MM, and it seems like he wants to do the same thing now. When he executes the quick passes, the running game, etc., they have had far more success.
Plus, he had the same pissy attitude under MM that's sprung up again. He's believed his own hyped-up intelligence for too long. You can't sit in front of reporters and hint at personnel moves without it sowing discontent in your locker room and organization. If you want to say those things, do it behind closed doors to Gute or Murphy. Unfortunately, MLF is ultimately the one who has to get a handle on Rodgers or MLF will go the way of MM, and I have not seen any propensity of him doing that.
It's going to be interesting at the end of Rodgers' career to hear what comes out from former teammates and coaches...
It appears that the massive extension given to 12 pretty much ceded all organizational control to his whims. He’s a younger, smarter, more smug version of the team president. The arrogance throughout the org has blinded them to the reality of what it takes to win, the collective over any one ego. MLF is getting a raw deal here in some ways, but he had to know what he was getting into with the 3 silos of power BS. He seems to be a decent human being, forced to toe the line. He does seem very reticent to correcting personnel issues, however.
I understand the anger here. We have had a lot of wins and that leads to expectations. Expectations are the seeds of resentments. So, naturally we are more than upset. Yet, I disagree that there was not effort. I saw effort. Aaron Rodgers (who for some reason people hate) has played well for his whole time starting. I really don’t care what he does in the off-season, who he dates, his opinions on vaccines or his hair style. I do think that his cap hit is too high. And I do think that has hurt our ability to sign some more quality players.
These two games were lost due to relative lack of talent and mistakes at key positions.
@Chongo posted:Yup...the offense is systemically broken...people want to blame X...but it's X, Y and Z...and probably W.
We are going to see how good of a coach MLF really is the next 3 months.
I think it's less about that than a lack of talent. AR's accuracy has been off this year, but I'm sure some of it has to do with frustration. Aside from a promising Doubs (who's still a rookie and learning), who does he have to throw to? None of them can beat man coverage. Tonyan's OK, but he's still coming back and has lost some speed. The O-line has been atrocious. Jenkins isn't 100% and is really struggling at RT, Bak isn't there yet either, Runyan's good, not great, same with Myers, and Newman and Hanson shouldn't even be in this league. Jones is still terrific, but Dillon has looked off this year.
The plan going into the season was that we were going to be a running team with a stifliing defense. Well, we can't run the ball because the O-line sucks. We can't pass the ball because our receivers can't get separation, so we can't score. Teams have the recipe for defending us now. The talent on defense is there, but they're underperforming. It's going to make wins going forward hard to come by.
@Goalline posted:Even if 12 is fucking up MLF is to blame. He is the boss, isn't he?
Yup...and that's been my concern from day 1 with MLF...he doesn't have enough asshole in him to turn the screws when he needs to on players and his assistants.
Maybe he does...but hasn't had to do so much so far his first 3 years.
Shit is going sideways now...he HAS to adjust something or it will continue to be at this level. They won't fire him this year unless he completely loses the team...but if he doesn't recognize and address the problems, this shit will continue next year and beyond. And as much as people want to shit on 12 for "not doing what the coach wants," this shit isn't getting better with new blood at QB1. Love may end up being a great player, but put him behind the current OL, with the current WR and you run the risk of him becoming the next David Carr.
Went back and watched the game...this is the worst OL the Packers have had in decades...and they shouldn't be. Newman, JRJ and even Myers looked like deer in headlights. Jenkins at times too...took bad steps, left grabbing air. Only OL that looked decent was 69...and he should as the top paid OL in the league.
My only conclusion is Butkus and Steno haven't quite worked this shit out yet...if they don't address this shit this week, the Commodores will look like the Bills next week. This is eerily going down the "we'll get that corrected," rinse and repeat of the McVince era.
I would like to see Steno return to the OL. Give him the raise I'm sure he got as OC, and he can even keep the title. When Steno came on board and had the OL, we always raved about how well the OL played even when mixing and matching guys. Now, it's a team weakness -- and it shouldn't be one.
@Fandame posted:I would like to see Steno return to the OL. Give him the raise I'm sure he got as OC, and he can even keep the title. When Steno came on board and had the OL, we always raved about how well the OL played even when mixing and matching guys. Now, it's a team weakness -- and it shouldn't be one.
@TomSilverstein: LaFleur said that OC Adam Stenavich is spending a good deal of time with the offensive line but he didn't rule out asking him to do more given his experience coaching the OL. He said the performance of the OL Sunday was the worst of his tenure.
The cut-ups shown in this tweet are just gruesome.
As awful of an OL performance as you'll ever see. A lot of blame to go around, but nobody is winning anything with that performance on OL. Beyond brutal. pic.twitter.com/HYUIYINbhO
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) October 17, 2022
@Fandame posted:It may also be time to ask if Rodgers is a coach-killer on this team by not taking what's given and executing the plays as they're called, and for having a bad attitude.
Too often he's looking for a big chunk play when they don't have the WRs right now, he doesn't have the time, and he doesn't trust his WRs anyway. I watch him now and I see him doing the same things as he did under MM. Rodgers went all playground and basically did what he wanted under MM, and it seems like he wants to do the same thing now. When he executes the quick passes, the running game, etc., they have had far more success.
Plus, he had the same pissy attitude under MM that's sprung up again. He's believed his own hyped-up intelligence for too long. You can't sit in front of reporters and hint at personnel moves without it sowing discontent in your locker room and organization. If you want to say those things, do it behind closed doors to Gute or Murphy. Unfortunately, MLF is ultimately the one who has to get a handle on Rodgers or MLF will go the way of MM, and I have not seen any propensity of him doing that.
It's going to be interesting at the end of Rodgers' career to hear what comes out from former teammates and coaches...
We've already heard from one or two former teammates.
@PackerPatrick posted:I understand the anger here. We have had a lot of wins and that leads to expectations. Expectations are the seeds of resentments. So, naturally we are more than upset. Yet, I disagree that there was not effort. I saw effort. Aaron Rodgers (who for some reason people hate) has played well for his whole time starting. I really don’t care what he does in the off-season, who he dates, his opinions on vaccines or his hair style. I do think that his cap hit is too high. And I do think that has hurt our ability to sign some more quality players.
These two games were lost due to relative lack of talent and mistakes at key positions.
You are far too reasonable and mature for purposes of these discussions. I wish I was more like you. I'm fine today, but I was a pissed off idiot yesterday. My wife finally told me I was acting like a dick because I was so grumpy.
Sad to see those cutups of the OL, especially because a lot of them were of Jenkins. He needs to be moved back inside. It just looks like their communication sucks and they have no cohesiveness, which is where Steno could help.
Still, when Rodgers got the ball out short and early, gains were made. And it may be a case where the run should have gone to the outside more than inside.
@Fandame posted:It may also be time to ask if Rodgers is a coach-killer on this team by not taking what's given and executing the plays as they're called, and for having a bad attitude.
Too often he's looking for a big chunk play when they don't have the WRs right now, he doesn't have the time, and he doesn't trust his WRs anyway. I watch him now and I see him doing the same things as he did under MM. Rodgers went all playground and basically did what he wanted under MM, and it seems like he wants to do the same thing now. When he executes the quick passes, the running game, etc., they have had far more success.
Plus, he had the same pissy attitude under MM that's sprung up again. He's believed his own hyped-up intelligence for too long. You can't sit in front of reporters and hint at personnel moves without it sowing discontent in your locker room and organization. If you want to say those things, do it behind closed doors to Gute or Murphy. Unfortunately, MLF is ultimately the one who has to get a handle on Rodgers or MLF will go the way of MM, and I have not seen any propensity of him doing that.
It's going to be interesting at the end of Rodgers' career to hear what comes out from former teammates and coaches...
Greg Jennings?
@ilcuqui posted:@TomSilverstein: LaFleur said that OC Adam Stenavich is spending a good deal of time with the offensive line but he didn't rule out asking him to do more given his experience coaching the OL. He said the performance of the OL Sunday was the worst of his tenure.
The cut-ups shown in this tweet are just gruesome.
As awful of an OL performance as you'll ever see. A lot of blame to go around, but nobody is winning anything with that performance on OL. Beyond brutal. pic.twitter.com/HYUIYINbhO
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) October 17, 2022
I've seen better blocking on electric football games
@ilcuqui posted:The cut-ups shown in this tweet are just gruesome.
As awful of an OL performance as you'll ever see. A lot of blame to go around, but nobody is winning anything with that performance on OL. Beyond brutal. pic.twitter.com/HYUIYINbhO
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) October 17, 2022
6 dropped passes.
But the real problem is he doesn't throw enough to rookies